Tibetan Troubles Spread

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

vijaya — Sun, 16 Mar 2008 23:36:24 GMT

to the editor,news week,

sir,

would Chinese people have liked the arguements from Japan, if the latter was still the conquror of China and was telling it to them ,what they are telling to Tibetans ??????

GOES TO SHOW THAT BY MILITARY OCCUPATION YOU CAN NOT CAPTURE THE COUNTRY.

ALSO , HOW UNUCH ,THE HUMAN RIGHTS DINGALINGS LOOK ,IN THIS EVENT !!!!!

THEY RUSH TO SOME FAKE BUT POLITICALLY FAVORABLE DOGMAS AND PREACH THE COUNTRIES. BUT DARE NOT TO CHINA !!!!

AND THE SAME WAY , FOR THE WESTERN POWERS,FREE KOSOVO, FREE IRAQ ( INSTEAD OF IRAN ) BUT CAN'T DARE TO FREE TIBET OR FREE SUDAN, OR FREE IRAN.

TIBET IS INVADED , CONQUERED , MUTILATED, BUTCHERED ,AND ENSLAVED BY CHINA,

AND NO HUMAN RIGHTS ORG.INCLUDING JIMMY CARTER,HAS DARED TO UTTER A WORD !!!!!!!

OUR HATS OFF TO NANCY PALOSI, A DARING FREEDOM LADY OF OUR COUNTRY...

BABUBHAI PATEL.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

Jzhang — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 02:24:26 GMT

As your logic, most people in north America should go back other places.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

floodking — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 02:47:35 GMT

To vijaya and all those know noting about Tibet:

Tibet has been part of China since the 11th century, which Dalai Lama (one of the spiritual leader of Tibet, and betrayed Tibet in 1959) has also admitted. So, vijaya , please note that Tibet is a province of China, and is a part of China.

But things are very different for Sino-Jap realtions. China has never been part of Japan and will nenver.

The Japanese invaded China in 19th century and it even controlled part of it at the very beginning of the 20th century. The Japanese soliders destoried everything they saw in China: kill civilians, rape womens, burned down houses, etc. In one word, they acted like animals. During the invasion, they had slaughtered more than 80 millions people(similar to the population of Germany), i.e., they had destroied a medium sized country. But the Chinese people never admit the Japanese's control and they had been fighting against all the time.

Now, the Chinese people has been trying to renew relations with the Japanese people even though the Japanese had done great wrong to them in the past. However, some of the Japanese

try to cover the history that they had done in the Second World War and they are always keeping making troubles.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

loangstar — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 03:47:17 GMT

Dalai Lama was the vice-chair of People's Congress Assembly after Communists taking over China from Nationalists in 1948. This confirms the claim that Tibet is a part of China.

The Tibetan monks do not live in the same simple lives as those Catholic priests. In fact, their lifestyles are quite opposite. Tibet was ruled by these monks for centuries and the farmers are only slaves. However, most poor Tibetans don't care their hardship in living. They just hope to have a better next life (born as Tibetan monks or outside of Tibet).

There was demonstration by Free Tibet group in San Francisco early last week. I believe this round of protests have been coordinated. I don't know how effective it will be as China today is different from that 40 years ago. I doubt there is any country dares to challenge China for Tibet now. This could be an end for the Chinese government to negotiate with Dailai Lama. The Tibet problem is very complicated. It is not just between Tibetan and Han ethnic. It is within Tibetans too in their unjust and rigid social systems. I hope they use wisdom to solve their problems rather than the stone or gas bombs.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

kenbomc — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 04:18:42 GMT

Maybe the government of China should quite trying to hide things and let their own people decide.

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ajykma — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 04:25:36 GMT

Jzhang, are you saying because people came and settled in North America from various parts of the world, it justifies China taking over Tibet and essentially destroying Tibetan culture?

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ajykma — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 04:39:39 GMT

It is time for China to become a responsible citizen of the world and learn to respect people's wishes. Justifiying its actions of cultural genocide because the police in the US has abused minorities is ridiclous. What China fails to consider that abuses happen but there is an OPEN legal system to address those. Does China have an OPEN legal system? Are the police which caused 100 deaths in Tibet going to stand trial? I can go on and on.

By justifying its actions based on what happens in the US, China is tacitly admitting that it is in fact abusing human rights in Tibet.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

loangstar — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 05:04:01 GMT

Let us respect the fact that all nations in the world recognize Tibet is a part of China. This includes India. India was competing with Ching Dynasty to get Tibet but lost the competition. The British tried to take Tibet from Ching Dynasty for her colonized India and failed too. Of course, Tibetans can try to separate Tibet from China. It is just like someone can try to separate some provinces from India or California from USA. Whether they will be successful is another story. Many countries have laws to prohibit this from happening.

We don't know how many people were killed during the riot and who are they and who committed the killing. Before we know the fact, there is no sense to make any charge on this. I am not trying to argue for China. However, China's legal system is still in an early stage. American legal system is over 200 years old. When it was 100 years old, most Asians (except Japanese) were not allowed to become US citizens. All women and black were not allowed to vote.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

amdolabrang — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 05:07:41 GMT

Dalai lama may was made some vice chair but why did Dalai Lama came to india in exile and why did lhasa trouble started? Dalai Lama didn't ask for total independence he merely seek genuine autonomy which is quiet a simple. On the contrary Chinese regime having in touch with envoy of Dalai Lama for rounds of talk and simultenously accusing Dalai Lama of spiliting the china so called " motherland". Every Tibetan felt cheated and disgusted the way chinese communist have been behaving in tuxido. what kind of patriotic education china wants the tibetan to learn when there is no desire what so ever from tibetan's heart?. Its high time communist China come to terms with the reality and gracefully engage in sincere dialogue with the envoy of Dalai Lama again before its too late

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

amdolabrang — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 05:36:19 GMT

I don't think chinese people in PRC require indroctination by the communist regime, why is that Tibetan monks needed these education? and why is that Tibetan civil servant cannot go to temple? and why is that communist regime who dont believe in religion wanted thier approval for incarnation of Lamas. I m pretty convinced that the day will come when communist say( when to eat and when to ***. I hear some say "tibet is better off now then ever beore" and I say "China was also better off then ever before" and so does" India was better then ever before" and the list goes on and on, the whole world was better then ever before

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harmonyforall — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 05:36:26 GMT

China's rulers are being ruthless in their quest to shut down the peaceful marches by the Tibetian Monks. How did they ever win the Olympic bid? Well the old saying goes those who laugh first laugh last. The Chinese Government thought they were going to show the world how great they were with their oppressive ways even within their own country (not Tibet) stealing people's land in order to build the Olympics sites. Continously, the Chinese Rulers threaten to war against Taiwan, instead of making peace...

The slogan the Chinese Rulers picked for the Olympics is only valid if it runs to their beliefs and the rest of the world obeys and follows silently.

I am proud of my country Canada for standing tall and meeting with the Dalai Lama a man whom is sweet, gentle, well educated and does not have a cruel streak like that of the Chinese Rulers. When I heard the Dalai Lama speak in Japan, he was thought provoking, came across with humor, love and clear about the world living in peace.

My prayers are with the Tibetian Monks both in Tibet and India, the Taiwanese people and to those who Chinese citizens who are not treated with the respect they are deserving of.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

loveluba — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 06:15:06 GMT

One has to adhere to international law? The U.S. certainly has not! Not in the case of Kosovo, which was illegally taken from Serbia. Why don't some human rights groups go to Serbia & find the scoop there?.....wag the dog strikes again....

As far as Tibet goes.... I believe they should have their freedom from COM-MUTILIST CHINA. Oh! The U.S. won't get involved there.....they don't go after the big dog. They stomp on the little dog ie. Serbia. Crazy Bill C. & Margaqret A.(from Mafia Anonymous)!

Who ever gave China the right to hold the Olympics? COM-MUTILIST CHINA is anti freedom, a bully, imprisoning/torturing their own people, as well as Tibetans. They are preventing the foreign press into Tibet to bring out the truth! What are they horror are they hiding? Who in their right mind would want to go there for the Olympics? It would be such an anti-freedom statement.

I say: BAN THE OLYMPICS IN CHINA!! Do not support this country and their crazy extreme government, by spending a dime there! If they do not give their people & the Tibetans freedom, why should they be allowed to ho st an international event? How can the olympic torch, and what it represents, be carried from China? A person with a noose around their neck running would be much more appropriate! China's "One World" olympic sloganis total B.S.! I can not believe that we are sending our atheletes there. Wag the dog. Woof! Woof!

FREE TIBET!

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

vmpatil26 — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 06:35:24 GMT

This is reply to loangstar's comment that India tried to conquer Tibet in the past.

Hi Buddy, which history books do you refer to ??? Let me know ... It's ridiculuos to say that India tried to conquer India ever in the past. Currently, China has illegally conquered Aksai part of J&K and also does not accept Arunachal Pradesh as part of India .... China accepted Sikkim as India's part only recently though Sikkim integrated with India with people's wish way back in '70's.

Wake up Buddy and look outside the box ..... Tibet was conquered against Tibetan's wishes but still, the whole world accepted it as China's part ... sadly including India .... Now, Dalai Lama just expects autonomy and right to live with respect .... China lost his own cultural treasure in Cultural Revolution .... I don't want to say anything more abt this .... but Communism doesn't mean that every ciizen is void of basic rights ... Tibetans have right to live with dignity and self-respect and Chinese gov and people must respect it .... Country is not just described by land borders but also by it's society ....

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

loangstar — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 06:54:00 GMT

I did not say India tried to conquer Tibet. I said India tried to get Tibet. Indian has been in Tibet for many years in the history. I got this information from some books in Hong Kong. You may not have this information in Indian history book. It is just like the information about the sino-India war in 1962. You will find a big difference in Indian history book as compared with those in Wikipedia.

Regarding human dignity, when will India abolish its social system to divide its citizens into four classes?

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

smartguy — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 07:47:38 GMT

Is scalped serf human right? Is bewaisted human right? Is skin drum human right?! That was exactly Dalai Lhama did when he reigned Tibet before 1949.

See skinned serf by Dalai and ~~~do not try to throw up things.

bbs.hiphop8.com/thread-15235-1-1.html

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

Juliancillo — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 08:12:39 GMT

Reply to loveluba.

Can you imagine talking of human rights to a primitive indian in American a thousand years ago? Why is the best democracy, even using the same legal procedure, always achieved in countries with strong economy and politics infrastructure? Do you think the gossips of human rights can be totally independent from foreign political intervention and cruel resource plunder?

It is without a doubt that Dalai Lama is supported in all ways by separationists, both from China and other countries, who, inmediately after Tibet's independence, would gladly proceed to infiltrate into Tibet in search of resources and control. If Chinese government is to blame, then blame on it s possibly over heated ways of exercising absolute sovereign in Tibet but not the wish to do it.

Now, do you think it really matters to the American president or the British Prime Minister if the Tibeten people are free of not? No, nor should to them. All that matter is their own country interest and the next election. Let's claim for Free Tibet when the claim is first Free from third country intervention, and not unwillingly in the aid of some dirty causes.

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Earthling — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 08:19:30 GMT

 Have all those self-righteous “free Tibet” campaigners ever asked themselves why they are not campaigning for the rights of native Americans with a “free America” campaign? How about starting at home to campaign for the removal of white settlers from North America by packing up, returning to Europe and leave the land to its rightful owners – the native Americans, whose culture was not only totally destroyed, whose land wrongfully taken from them and whose race are nearly exterminated. The USA is a country founded on true genocide.

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Thinkfirst — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:04:10 GMT

Like most people in China I have no idea what's going on in Tibet right now, and I admit this is not a good feeling.

But to those claiming "Save Tibet" or "Damn China", I must ask you a question. How will the police officers in YOUR COUNTRY act towards someone throwing stones to them, or waving a blade toward them at danger close? I can assure you, at least in the states, they pull two rounds in your body and another one in your head.

Before Yahoo's video was blocked I viewed several clips about the situation. In the clips I saw police holding shields, not firing, and protesters attacking the defence line and beating a soldier pulled out from his peers. Perhaps latter they do authorized deadly power against deadly threat,

Truethfully hope this will end soon without further terrible consequences.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

weimar — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:26:24 GMT

Maybe first I must beg your pardon for my not good expression in English, because I’m a Chinese, and I have never been to American, or other English-speaking country.

As a student in major of international relation, I must admit the riot in Tibet had attracted attention from the entire world. Our country will host Olympics game after five months, so it’s a truly big problem for our government (which you American always called communist china) to take which kind of measure to stop the violence and ensure the peace of local society. I mean the connection between Olympics and Tibet riot is, people who always proclaim himself guard of human rights and who come from developed-countries which have a history of hundreds years of the construction of democracy, have the impression that whatever our government do (except let Tibet go independence) are dictatorial、un-humane and un-transparent, then lay the blame on us and threaten to reject the Beijing Olympics.

Please, please take your tolerance towards abuse of gun and Clinton’s coition with Lewinsky (sorry, Mr. Bill, in fact I like your smile) to the development of our country’s democracy, we just have twenty years after conflict of political power in institutional revolution (文革) to practice our reform and development policy, to reform our old political system, to clear up corruption, to give every people commitment to freedom, AND TO LISTEN TO YOUR BLAME EVERYDAY. Please, please take a look at your history: 100years ago, Asians were not welcome in America; 200years ago, an honorably great number of India were killed in the home of modern democracy, what a pity that I cannot be born at that time and wrote a paper to express my blame and anger!

Oh, please tell me if syntax mistakes exist in my comment, and I feel English cannot absolutely express my true opinion……不爽

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

linlinone — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:34:41 GMT

i have not ever been in Tibet. what i have learned was from the documentary films,it seems that most of adults are like to be a clerk of religion instead of being a worker.

in my area all the adults are workers in factory,they are makeing money and working hard. a

nd few people joint the religious organization.

i can sure that tibat's people is benefit from chinese economic growth.why did they were dissatisfactory?

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Thinkfirst — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:51:59 GMT

To Weimar

I am also Chinese and I hope you, as well as my other Chinese fellows to give EDUCATED COMMENTS.

This is one of the few places we can express our view and voice so PLEASE APPRECIATE.

Don't make outsiders think we are rogues.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

padmayogini — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:11:13 GMT

my husband is Tibetan and I have been part of the Buddhist community for many years. I think it is hard for many to understand that the majority of the Tibetans feel their country has been illegally invaded, that they do not identify themselves as Chinese and it is only HH Dalai Lama who has kept them in check so far. many young people are ready to explode, they are so frustrated. There is major unrest, talk of suicide bombings etc it is only His Holiness that has kept their hopes alive for peace. Many have respect for what China has done for them, there is no doubt, but they want them to leave their country. Tibetan and Chinese view and behavior is very very different and the Tibetans for nearly 1000 years have made an effort to distinguish themselves from the Chinese, through independent currency, language, politics , trade and religion. I hope people can put themselves in their shoes..yes they are throwing rocks and petrol bombs, those police are not 'theirs", they are invaded..what the Chinese police are doing is not new.. for nearly 50 years the brutality has been horrific, now there are no jobs for Tibetans, their language is not allowed in school, they are feeling more the forced assimilation. Those monks and nuns are their family members, anyone from any country I doubt would stand by and watch them be beaten without events getting out of control. Sorry for the long post--- Free Tibet

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wendyliu — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:28:07 GMT

What the Tibetans are doing right now is Genocide and Religious prosecution! I wonder how come the Dalai Lama wasn't honest enough to tell the Western world what his followers are doing. Attacking elemtary schools, beating innocent bystanders including woman and children, burning shops. If all you free Tibetan activists think that's justified because it's a part of their pursue for religious freedom. Then is 9-11 justified too? Why are you accusing the Talibans if you all think violence in the name of religion should be tolerated?

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loangstar — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:34:11 GMT

To padmayogini:

Last month in Berkeley, California, a woman was shot to death by a policeman. The policeman was responding to a 911 call for a domestic dispute. When the policeman arrived, a woman waved a kitchen knife in front of the policeman so she was shot. This is typical and allowed in the US. No one condemns the action by the policeman.

There are many westerners, especially those in the old British empires, like to see a separate Tibet. The reason was the failure of British action in 19th century to get Tibet from Ching Dynasty. The Brits are also very worried about a strong China. They worry the Chinese may revenge against them for the Opinum War occurred in 1849. They have been using human right and Tibetans for their agenda, disregarding the consequence of Tibetan interest. The Brits are the masters of hypocracy. The American are aware of this in their history book taught in the high school.

My personal view is that Chinese and Tibetan shall engage in their dialogue more patiently and openly, It is in their best interest to resolve their difference by themselves. Over the years, Tibetans have migrated to other areas of China. I think it is reasonable for some Han and other Chinese ethnic to migrate to Tibet. Tibetans and Chinese need to learn to tolerate each other a little bit. Just remember, the bystanders like those westerners and me, we are just watching the show. Some people like it and cheer the confrontation. Some even got involved to distirb more violence. However, you are the ones that will suffer from the confrontation. Use wisdom to resolve your grief!!!

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

Thinkfirst — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:53:38 GMT

By the way I find some media and authorities suck.

If this happened in Iraq they definetely call it a riot, if not terrorism.

But when it comes to China, they call it a crackdown.

Compared with these biased report I would rather read comments by padmayogini, although we take different sides.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

Thinkfirst — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:36:27 GMT

Yeah Promisous, keep on.

I assume you've just seen your Bear share drop from $30 to nothing and are trying to bite anyone around you.

You're not qualified for such serious talk.

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godmann — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:09:18 GMT

李克强等四人出任国务院副总理 !

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surt@uga.edu — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:22:40 GMT

Unless the US withdraws from the Olympic games this year, we are approving of China's actions.

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griffin115 — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:06:27 GMT

There will be no boycotts or anything else to the killings in Tibet.The UN will continue its very important work of...ummm what does it do anyway?.As will CNN and the rest of what passes for "news" gathering.

Its not as if the Israelis were responding to rocket attacks on their cities or anything "disproportionate" like that.

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katewin — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:15:16 GMT

Until people have actually lived in China instead of just reading hypocritical Western media accounts of the so-called oppression, they shouldn't be so quick to judge China and trust in Tibet.

For one thing, the DL's cultural genocide claim is the dumbest accusation considering China even has affirmative action laws specifically designed to help minorities (which of course the media doesn't mention). And no one seems to remember how life for the average Tibetan person got a lot better once China took over, considering they had to live basically in feudal conditions under a physically brutal and authoritarian religious government/the monks who westerners always seem to think of as peace-loving victims no matter what,

Even though during these riots the Tibetan protesters and monks have burned people's homes, beaten innocent women, etc. Just what are the Chinese police supposed to do? Nothing? If violent riots and attacks against the majority/white people were happening in the U.S., the government would be all over it.

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BadBob — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:28:26 GMT

Forget Iraq, Be prepared to go to WAR with China, after all Thats what they been preparing for, for the last 10 years.

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artemshap — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:33:53 GMT

Tibet is a shithole of a territory why would anyone want it? Besides most people are like wtf is a Tibet? lmao and all those protestors saying free tibet it confuses people cause all the kids at my school think its a rapper or something haha. FREE TEMPO! FREE Busta! lmao however i do think ppl are blowing it outta proportion cause they're bored ! Just get money drink have fun and die cause when ur dead who gives a *** about any country.

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dannyg — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:42:53 GMT

Tibet religion is against Jesus and barbarians. Do not know why we care about these idol worshipping chinks in yellow robes. Based on what I know, Tibet culture is strange where people are slaves to the monks. Where is democracy here? I can barely make a living, How does the Dalai Lama gets his funding? Last time I checked, did not see GDP for DL people. Surprise that there are 50 Tibetans in Chicago, DC or any city.

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artemshap — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:48:02 GMT

FREE WILLY! LMAO and what type of name is Dalai Lama sounds like a fcking donkey!

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dannyg — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:09:09 GMT

I think the DL is desperate, he's jealous that Tibet region is improving. They're drinking beer and meeting pretty Chinese girls. I would forget all that bullsh** yellow robe crap and have fun. He is unhappy 'cause they're not crawling 6 mth to their idol worshiping pilgrimage. I never seen DL crawl. Monks do not marry, BUT I read via web that DL had wives and children. DL is having all the fun and tell is Tibetans to continue crawling. I am probably more righteous than DL.

Hehehehehe! I have my vices.

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sjbrock80 — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:55:38 GMT

Where I live (Colorado, USA), commercials pleading for financial support of Tibet have suddenly been on TV constantly.

Is this a coincidence or is Tibet starting a huge uprising of some sort?

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katewin — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:56:16 GMT

China would never start a war with the U.S., it would have to be the other way around. It's obvious who likes to keep to themselves and who likes to stick their judgmental delusionally-arrogant nose into the world's business.

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dodos — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:31:14 GMT

Some of the posters think westerners are victims of our media. This is true an extent, but many americans are aware that they should not always trust all mainstream media. but what about you, the people living in china? Do you think you are getting the full story from your media and your government? The american government have nothing to lose if the people know whats going on in tibet or not, but the chinese government does. why have the government blocked websites like Youtube, The Guardian and Boingboing, along with cutting news covering of tibetan uprising made by cnn and bbc?

As for the tibetan people, disregarding politics, this is an issue of humanity. Many tibetans don't believe China is helping them or improving their lives, they believe the opposite. If this is what tibetan or the tibetan governemt believed and felt that their lives were being improved by the chinese government, there would be no need for an uprising.

During the course of the chinese governments invasion, hundreds upon thousands of tibetans have been killed, their children forced to learn chinese, the headfigure of tibet's government and religion was exiled(what do the people living in china think of this?)and the values and culture that is central to tibetans are being assimilated.

If China is helping Tibet, then why is there an uprising? why have so many tibetans died? why is the dalai lama is exile?

Instead of pointing a finger at America's bloody colonization(all americans are aware, but there is nothing we can about it now), learn from our mistakes.

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deela — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 00:08:42 GMT

The Tibetan people have been suppressed by the communist Chinese for 49 years! People in Tibet and Tibetans all over the world have still not lost hope in regaining what belongs to them, nothing more. The modernization of Tibet is the Chinese government’s façade to the rest of the world that they are keeping the people of Tibet happy and fulfilled, but alas the TRUTH comes out! Tibetans in Tibet not only have NO human rights, no religious freedom, well no freedom whatsoever. They are monitored day in day out. And if any of them dare to disobey the communist rulings they are brutally punished and anyone in their vicinity is punished, beaten, and killed. Many innocent lives are at stake here. This behavior of the Chinese government CANNOT be accepted, not by Tibetans or any human being! Finally after generations of oppression the people of Tibet risk lives only to cry and prove to the rest of the world the misery they are under. All prior to Beijing’s display of a prosperous nation before the 2008 Olympics but behind closed doors its bloodshed, cruelty, lies, destruction, and unhappiness! And yes, even the Buddhist monks in Tibet are protesting, this I think raises many questions in people’s minds: monks are religious, calm people they don’t do this sort of stuff. Here’s my explanation to that: First of all, Monks are human beings, they have the same human nature that we all have, Secondly, they’re Tibetans, Tibetans carry a frustration since before 1959 when it was brutally and officially taken over by communist Chinese and haven’t been able to call Tibet home. Then Thirdly, they are monks, Buddhist monks. Please excuse this shortcoming of a Buddhist but understand their Human-ness and Tibetan-ness have taken over! I hope the message to the rest of the world is clear, history is in the making here, Chinese government’s actions are immoral and awarding them the 2008 summer Olympics is a huge mistake. China has created a “One World, One Dream” slogan for the 2008 Olympic games. The concept of “One” is China’s method of hiding the occupation of Tibet, military threats against Taiwan, oppression of the people of East Turkestan, and colonization of South Mongolia. Outside of Tibet, we have a voice and we shout, “One World, One Dream, Free Tibet!” Tibet, may you be redeemed someday soon, I love you!

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freeallnations — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:27:31 GMT

How many people who accused Chinese government's religious supression had actually BEEN to Tibet or surrounding area? My guess? not many. I grew up in both side of the hemisphere and had traveled extensively. First of all I do not like political discussions of Tibet, Taiwan, etc. I try to avoid this no-win topic like a plague. At the same time, I really hate it when people talk about politics as if they knew anything, including those celebrities who think they're better than everyone else. If there's no religious freedom, what the heck were the monks doing in the monasteries in China over the last 40 years? The Tibetan monks were holding daily intelligent religious discussions and debate in open air as I had witnessed 10 years ago in Xiahe. That's not even in the Tibetan Autonomous Region, that was in Gansu Province, and it was a province with mainly Han population. Chinese citizens of Tibetan heritage were liberally practicing their religion in my face, walking with their prayer wheels that can be seen all over. When I was there, all I saw was peace. Why don't people actually GO to Tibet or Xiahe to actually SEE what's going on before they make stupid comments like "Free Tibet" "Religious Freedom" or "No human right"? Do we have human rights here in the US? Ask some African Americans about what they think of the local police treatment of innocent people.

That being said, I'm not siding with China either. I just want all of you who think you know a darn thing to think through your words before you post. It's unfair to accuse China to occupy Tibet, and that Tibet was an independent nation. Was it? British and Russians were fighting over it for years. Mongols controlled it for years. And China's old dynasties also held some claim over it. And Tibetan empire used to include much larger than Tibet. When you say free Tibet, do you mean just whatever China outlined as "Province of Tibet", or is it all of the old Tibetan Empire? Will Nepal and India all agree to give up some land? Will China have to carve out its other provinces of Sichuan, Qinghai, and Gansu? It's as ridiculous as saying let's give back Prussians their land, or restore the Ottoman Empire. And honestly, if you read the history, Tibet was entirely feudal, even in "modern days" pre-communist. Where's the human rights in Tibet pre-China? Was there human rights when you work hard for your landlord like slaves and religious leaders have absolute power?

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

leatherneck904 — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:48:49 GMT

Last year, I went to the country side of Tibet (not major city). I saw the monks, they are not very friendly, at least that is what I think. We visited the temple, dark and old inside, but outside was nice and pretty. occasionally, we saw some westerner speaking to the monks on the corner. we were wondering how do they communicated to each other. the guide told us, a lot of monks they studied English, but not Chinese. we were wondered how could that happen. China claimed Tibet as a part of China. Most of Chinese were pushed to speak Mandrain Chinese when they were young. but why not these monks. we asked, the guide told us that temples have their own society here, they ruled on their own, as long as those monks stay in their own world.(commit crime otherwise) The government leave them alone. we were shocked. we also visited the temple's dungen, we saw cut off slave hands, peered human skins, skulls. (not pictures). I could not believe this is so called budda's world. budda is about mercy. this is obvious not. then we went to visit the Tibetan's family. almost every house is big lot. two stories, bigger than the house we live in US. Kids were running around the house. people were kind to us. we asked the owner of house, are those all your kids, she said yes, then the guide knew we were going to ask, (i think many people asked the same question) the one child policy does not affect to Tibetan. I just got more confused. how did chinese government so stupid, they control child birth to their own people, but not these Tibetan, do they need more monks or what. anyway, I suggested people here arguing about Free tibet or Tibet is part of China. Take a trip there, see how those people live today and yesterday. i have no interest in politics. the life of people are more important. people live there seem happy to me, the monks seen to be lived on the dark side. (to me they are so weird people)

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

victtodd — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 04:34:11 GMT

It is true for a long time,Tibet was a highly autonomous remote region under nominal control of Chinese feudal central government, however, it changed for ever when the new central government of PRC reasserted and reclaimed its sovereignty of Tibet in 1959, It is just the way the world works, nothing more. The process is far civil given that the US government used to send army to slaughter millions of native indians to grab their lands in its own history of expansion. If today's native indians were allowed to hold a referendum, would it be a surprise that they decide to reclaim their land and throw the non-native out of the continent of North America and declare independence? Would the US government allow it? Would most US citizens allow it? Of course not! If most of the countries in the world believe the native indians have a right to reclaim their lands, would US government persuade or force its non-indian citizens to return their land to the natifve indians?

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

jivendost — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:16:43 GMT

Regarding the question "Regarding human dignity, when will India abolish its social system to divide its citizens into four classes?" as posed by loangstar...

The social system of four class which you refer to is known as the caste system is India. If you do some research before commenting, you would have found that the Indian government has made the caste system illegal several years ago. Remember that "illegal" and "socially unacceptable" are indeed two different things altogether.

However, India, unlike China, is very much a democracy. The caste system is based in tradition that has been around for hundreds, possibly thousands of years. The government has made the caste system illegal. The bottom line though is that many people in India still practice the caste system.

As far as the general topic of "human dignity", I will say that there are things that Indian government can certainly do. But as India is a democracy, that change must first come from the population at large.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

brunopham — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:30:38 GMT

It's funny just to see all the chinese people blogging and supporting china action. Remember that you live in the US. If you think China is so great then why don't you live over there. You are just bunch of arrogant stink breath bastard. I just hope one day all of Asia nations will unify and go to war with China. China have a lot of enemies and it's only a matter of time before Vietnam, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, India, Thailand, mongolia, and Tibet go to war with China. China is a country that is very similar to the old Soviet Union. It's not a country of one people but of hundred ethnic group that is economically and politically suppress by the Han. China is using its' political muscle to steal land from vietnam and even claim right to water territory that is in Vietnam water.

I never like the China central government and because of that i will never travel there. What we should do is boycott the olympic. without tourist go to the olympic China will not be able to recoup the money it had spent on the olympic. It will be a financial disaster to china economy and that's the message we should send to China Central Government

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

brunopham — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:36:40 GMT

Can't wait for China to collapse and many new nations to come out of it. Im Asian and speaking from Asian perspective. I rather be under europe or the US occupation then china occupation. When You under china rule there will be ethnic cleansind and cultural genocide. That's why China will always remain as the number one enemy of Vietnam and Japan.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

Dokay — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:23:47 GMT

Okay, what I have to say may not sound important but from someone who's just been reading alot of the posts...I feel that we are getting ahead of ourselves...

In truth, trying not to be biased.. I would like to find out what happened...

not what people are gossiping about, and not what people are trying to tell me..

Am I the only one here that really wants to know how many people got hurt,

Am I the only one who wants to see how this actually went down??

I feel that China has not been 100% truthful to us because of this very reason.

They might not be hiding anything, but due to the fact that they are making it a 'media blackout'

it just feels questionable. The funny thing is.. I am sure that China knows this.. as the image of this years Olympics are at stake, they are not stupid.. and they know by doing so they have raised the suspicion level. So the question is if nothing elsed happened than what China is saying.. then why go through all this? It only makes sense to me that they are not being 100% truthful to me. That's the bottom line. As I am not from China, I guess it is not my place to trash talk about the government, however if it was.. this post would be on a whole new level.

It is the people/citizens of China to see this fault, it is their responsibility to reconize that governments should be scared of them and not the other way round...

I am for Free Tibet.. as well as I am for Free Speach!

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

52china — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:29:45 GMT

please, don't using your American standards and ways to judge anything . China has a quiet different situations from yours. u can not criticize these issues by your so called "info" given by CNN,NEWSWEEK,NYT.etc with prejudice. U just need to know gov in our country, they do things for people, they saved this country from a embarrassed environment. People there are not stupid.

we are not in the close comfortless world describes by your medias with bias.

I'm curious about democratic countris, your candidates spent so much time on campaigns. how this peole could really put heart into nation's stuff.

I just know ,.gov in our country is leading our people to a better future, the booming of economy is the best evidence.maybe there're too many secrets behind. but don't think yours are the best.

please give your real justicial judgements to our land.though we indeed do not really need them.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

victtodd — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:40:17 GMT

to brunopham:

I am really impressed by the grudge you hold against China. That being told, I am sorry to inform you that China will not collapse in foreseeable future, at least in your lifetime. Unlike the USSR, the Han Chinese dominate every province of China, so there is no incentive to separate within . As a nuclear power and permanent member of UN security council, and the 3rd economic body in the world, given its enormous military potential, No country would be insane and stupid enough to provoke a full-blown war against China. So, suck it up, bruno.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

abadreview — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:09:47 GMT

I find it disturbing that the Chinese government is blaming the recent unrest on the Dalai . The blame should be placed on the Chinese government and their shockingly poor human rights record. It tells you alot about a government when they blame all of their problems on a man who has devoted his entire life to making the world a better place, and who stands for non-violence and love of all people. Rather than chastizing the Dalai Lama, they should learn a few things from him, like how to treat people with dignity and respect.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

loangstar — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:17:51 GMT

To brunopham:

Vietnam is the country on earth that deserves the least right to criticize any other country and the treatment of minority. Regarding Vietnamese American, I give you an example about their exercise of freedom in America. There have been different proposals to name the area along the Tully road in South San Jose, California. The city (both Mayor and Councils) prefers to name it as Saigon Business District. There are some Vietnamese prefer to name it as Little Saigon. When the city was about to make it official, a Vietnamese American went on hunger strike (with only water) to force the City to name it as Little Saigon. The city and Councils have no choice but to negotiate for fear of negleting human right. It ends up delaying the naming of the district to end that person's hunger strike. Is this democracy?

Regarding the practice of caste system in India, it is illegal but socially acceptable. India is a democratic country so its citizens are allowed to practice illegal customs. This means you can do whatever in the name of democracy, isn't it?

Regarding religious freedom, have you ever heard of Christian Tibetans? Have you ever seen any church in Tibet? How many Christians are there in India or in Vietnam? I met many mainland Chinese in California and many of them are christians. I believe the christians in China are probably in tens of millions, many times of those christians in India and hundred times of those in Vietnam.

Regarding Chinese leaving Tibet because Chinese and Tibetans are totally different, how about the British settlers leaving Australia, British and French settlers leaving Canada, and all the immigrants including myself leaving America? The British settlers are certainly different from the Aboriginals in every aspect of culture. The British, the French and the other immigrants are surely different from the Native Canadian and American Indians. How about the Spanish in Latin America, etc....

Shall we find a better way to handle this dispute?

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

Narsimha — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:38:42 GMT

i have only one question to all here who oppose to watever is happening in tibet. Why is everyone i mean the western world so much interested in only tibet. Recently in Myanmar there was a riot against there govt. and how much did western world showed there interest and the plight of the myanmar people...... the western govt. world are selfish people all they are interested is in there own benefits and if china had not been a comunist country these same people would have never supported free tibet and never would even care about human rights or the plea of the tibet people.... if you wetern think that wats happening in tibet is worng there are lot of other place where things are worst then there africa, myanmar and lots of other poosr countries who need there help but are they willing to no cause it does not fit there interest and benefits they need.... so leave china alone and let it be between tibet and china how they want to work it out......

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

Narsimha — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:47:00 GMT

to abadreview

well dalai lama wat is there to learn from a man who turns all the real teachings of buddha into a personal property and then use it as a political tool. Wat is he doing polotic he should be one person either political leader or a religious leader.... you can't be both and wat is this about tibetan budhism since when did buddhism became tibetan.... buddhism is just buddhism.... nothing else and its not a property of tibetans but of every people from different countries and all different race...... so sotp using buddism as political tool..... please don't insult teachings of buddha by giving it names as apersonal propoerty and using it for there political interest.... keep religion and politics seprate and most of all buddhism keep it sperate from your dirty politics......

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

kjtshering — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:47:24 GMT

I've never written a comment on a website before, but I felt compelled after recent events in and outside Tibet. I hope in the midst of individuals waxing on over the state of China, I hope whomever reads this remembers that Tibetans, of which I am proudly one, don't have the simple freedoms we/you all enjoy: no freedom of speech (such as commenting as we do); no freedom of religion; no freedom to live our lives freely and justly the way we privileged souls do. My people have struggled for over 40 years with this injustice, all the while struggling to maintain a non-violent stance. But the world doesn't listen, and I am afraid are only now feigning interest due to the upcoming Olympics. I've never seen a free Tibet. Neither has my child. But my parents memories of a free Tibet, and the unrelenting desire of Tibetans just like me, will keep us fighting for the return of our freedoms, despite suggestions to the contrary.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

Narsimha — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:48:36 GMT

hello

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

elegrape — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:05:40 GMT

Hey you guys, stop blaming we chinese all right ! You know nothing about us. All the infomations you got are not the truth. You just read these reports on your sites and you trust it completely. Don't u think that's too stupid? How could you believe the media? Let me tell you the truth in China. We trust our goverment ,we like our leaders. They are doing great to improve our life. As for the part of humen right, I think we are enjoying our right completely. The whole country was harmonious ,vwithout gun shot ,without violence,without insurrection. I feel safe in my country and I believe that it's just luky enough to be born in this country.

The leadership is doing so good to make sure of our safety and happy life. I just don't understand why you are hostile to us, to our gov. How could you be so fond of violence ? I just feel that you are all warlike.That's really horrible. Tibet is one part of the chinese goverment. What our police are doing now is to keep the country's safety, That's just self-defense. And you should not regard the media's report the truth. Our police are humen,they would not do things that evil as the media described.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

zelme — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:23:31 GMT

I am Mongolian and I fully support our courageous Tibetan brothers in their struggle against chinese genocide. Keep fighting and we will see a day when Dalai Lama will come back to free Tibet. 20 years ago I could not even imagine collapse of USSR,but see where happened.

In ancient times when Mongolia was stronger we always came to rescue our ally Tibet and thousands of Mongolian warriors gave their lives for the freedom of Tibet.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

keanutcy — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:52:03 GMT

to zelme

i never want say any bad words in web.but now i just want to say a sentence to you : YOU ARE A SON OF ***

GOD forgive me !!

tibet had been a part of china for many many years ago,even older than you dirty conutry!you should go back home to read some history to clean you dirty brian,,,

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

padmayogini — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:57:19 GMT

to Loangstar;

I agree 100% there needs to be dialouge. I think more needs to be done in Lhasa so local Tibetans can open more businesses without having to compete with the overwhelming number of outside peoples opening up..I think the govt' of china needs to really address where this anger is coming from and by all means respect that the Tibetans do love HH Dalai lama very very much. I agree with your post.. not about the police in the US however, but thats another topic. What I am hearing for the Tibetans here is that a group of lay people surrounded a group ( the original group) of monks who where walking in peaceful protest, as a protective barriar. I think many chinese in the area felt threatened and the police were called and of course it blew up out of control. For violence of that level, we should all realize there has been some long simmering resentment- for this is not typical. My husband has students who are Chinese and he as a Tibetan teacher would never ever think badly of them, he does not have this view of the chinese people. Buddhism has not been used as a political tool, though its easy to use that to blame since there are monks involved....all the great Lamas hav fled to India so there are not many teachers in Tibet anymore. I just really hope the Chinese govt uses this opportunity to show what a great country they have by honoring the concerns of the Tibetans

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

padmayogini — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:00:56 GMT

zelme-- you have some serious anger issues...why? No bady here is saying this about you. If you have confusion about the history it is you who should contact the wonderful professors at Emory or Virginia or Columbia etc who have made a scholarly effort to seperate fact from political fiction. I think you can do that without being angry...

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

padmayogini — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:39:57 GMT

sorry Zelme.. that was meant for Keanutcy

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

victtodd — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:42:06 GMT

Many people see Dalai Lama as the hopeful leader for a free Tibet, however, if you go through the history of Tibet in first half of 20th century, you may come to a different conclusion.

Before 1953, Tibet was de facto a theocracy underpinned by serfdom system which borders on slavery, Senior monks used to wield absolute power and enjoy unchecked privilege while the serfs were suffering from grinding poverty and have no freedom at all. The only purpose of their miserable existence was to serve the monks. Tens thousands of serfs were tortured and even lynched, Some of the victim's limbs and bones were kept in some temples' dungeons as trophies . You still can find that in some temples even today.

Once you have a idea of what it was like in 1950's Tibet, you will wonder what kind of future Dalai Lama represent for Tibet ?

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

Adi58 — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:46:57 GMT

Tibet was occupied by China violently. Tibet is not China, even if the Chinese like to tell us. China flexes their muscles because they can, Unfortunately. The US doesn't do anything because they don't have any interest in Tibet. The Chines bleeded out the country already.

Tibet needs to be free because the Tibetan people ask for it. Who cares what the Chinese want. Their country is big enough to sustain their people. If not, bad luck. The Chinese governemnt treats it's own people poorly therefore don't expect them to touch the Tibetans with gloves.

I don't buy at WalMart and don't buy any Chinese products for decades (yes I am almost a senior citizen) because nobody can paint a nice picture what has happened and still happens in Tibet. I read all about it, long before Richard Gere was involved, which I think is a very courageous person.

Think people! If a government does not allow the international press in their country (see also Russia and many other oppressed countries) than something is foul.

I know it's hard to tell the sports men-women to boycott the Olympic games because they worked so hard to get there but it would be the right thing to do.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

Adi58 — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:55:48 GMT

to victtodd: the Tibetians lived in the middle ages in 1950 but the Dalai Lama was open to a new way of life and he would have succeeded sooner or later. The Chinese government lied to him and just killed thousands of innocent and peaceful people when they came into Tibet like a steam roller.

I admire the Dalai Lama and his attitude. I have read everything there is to read about Tibet (and many other historic and current events).

Oppression is oppression and there is no way that the Chinese gvmt. can talk themselves out of it. Boycotting the ceremonies is a good idea. People should not travel to China either.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

dannyg — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:00:23 GMT

Asking China to give in on Tibet, is like China telling the US to let Hawaii be indendent and let American Indians have a separate state. I do not see western media boycott the LA or Atlanta or Utah Olympics because of mistreatment of African Americans for centuries, mistreat of illegal immigrants in US, annihilation of American Indians. 80% US prison population are blacks. Is anyone going to suggest that blacks are prone to crimes? No that is ridiculous, the system is not accomodating them. I did not see LA boycotted because of pollution and it was bad back then.

You're talking about real and cultural genocide in US history.

Western media has figure out that first, you have to get everyone to into English, then dominate the Media. To be fair to China, Russia, France, Latin countries, Arabic countries each should have have own International Television Broadcast like CNN and BBC. This way anyone around the world can watch each station's point of view.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

Thinkfirst — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:12:33 GMT

Guys, I am fully aware that our government places strick sensorship on news report, and I agree with you this is not right, not abit.

But you know how we Chinese think of the overwhelming critics from outside? We expect it. Our attitude towards your media is pretty much the same as yours towards ours: blaim and curse every time. Even Americans must admit that US presses, like AP, are biased. They used at least one cut photo for the report.

All media take sides, and that's it.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

julesps — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:25:02 GMT

oh my, some of you really scare me. Apparently you have never been there or any other Asian country. If you have read any thing the Dalai Lama has said he wants to work with the Chinese government, he does not want to be the leader on Tibet, just the spiritual leader. He would like to return to Lhasa and see his homeland. But sadly he is not aloud in the country. The Chinese gov. does not think highly of religion, it makes it hard to control people that believe in something bigger than them. China is not perfect, no country is. But they have years and years of human rights issues against Tibet.

They are removing all the Buddhist icons and people all over Tibet, shipping in Chinese people from other parts of the country trying to remove the Tibet’s memories from the area. Lhasa that was this beautiful city is turning into a big dirty thing. They tore down builds and put in stores they felt worked better. They ran the locals out and replace them, that’s what is not right. They have decided they should not be there and they are doing whatever they can to remove them. If everything is so great, then why are so many fleeing? Maybe it’s great for the Chinese but what about the Tibetans’? Some monks and nuns have had terrible things done to them by the Chinese police. I am sorry but they would not make this up. I could go on and on about the things they have done. This week….. If things that are going on now are just the Tibet’s people then why has the Chinese Gov. shut down all video, radio and TV broadcast? Why are people there, that are Europeans, afraid to talk? Or even leave there rooms? Police, as everyone has seen, can be very violent. Does not anyone remember the guy standing in front of the tank? Same Government. Does anyone care about the people?

This Dalami Lama is not going to put people into slavery, history is important but... that was a different time and it was happening all over the world. What does that have to do with the Chinese killing milions of people?

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

Thinkfirst — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:37:20 GMT

To dannyg: not necessary to bring US history in discussion, it will sound more like an evasion from the present issue. We need no evasion.

This noon in Chengdu 2 were killed by Tibetan attackers.

This afternoon attackers committed a bus explosion down town Chengdu.

This is probably why the US authority has not yet taken actions against China. They know this is terrorism.

Support our troops. Perform your duty, boys, but aware of the rules of engagement.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

tsenam — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:15:57 GMT

As a Tibetan I really appreciate some of the patronizing, arrogant and sometimes racists comments made by some of the brainwashed Chinese commentators. For a minute imagine if you are Tibetan and this is all what you are forced to hear and many times worse. This is one reason why Tibetans want freedom. Look at America and comments here. People can express themselves even if you do not agree with them.

Tibetans do not hate Chinese people. Tibetans want freedom from the oppressive Chinese govt. Currently China is trying to make Tibetan and Chinese people fight to prop up their own corrupt regime. Chinese people need to reread Lu Xun's book and face reality about Tibet.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

padmayogini — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:03:12 GMT

to thinkfirst- what you write is very horrible, no doubt. But we have to look at what is terrorism...what is going on there is not appearing from no where..Terrorism is last year when the chinese army open fired on a group of Tibetans fleeing to freedom over the nepali pass killing a nine year old and a nun. Terrorism is kidnapping the Panchen Lama. Terrorism is a prison outside Lhasa where protestors are taken. Terrorism is the beating and imprisonment of monks just last October for displaying a picture of HH Dalai lama. Terrorism is just a fw months ago arresting an elderly man for shouting free tibet in public. come on.. no one would say the chinese people are evil, Im certainly not.. but this is an issue of freedom, of human rights and standing by a group of people who are under severe oppression.. we dont want history repeating itself.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

loangstar — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 01:36:16 GMT

Just read the report by Associated Press on MSN. Most of the violence was committed by the Tibetans against the Han Chinese. This summarizes all our discussion and speculation in this thread.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

Adi58 — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 02:02:38 GMT

it's so sad that people and governments don't care about individuals, only talk about the bigger picture.

I am so sorry for all people oppressed and hungry anywhere. I try to help on a small scale but it's overwhelming and frustrating how fast we reach our limits

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

Adi58 — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 02:03:57 GMT

I am not sure if loangstar will see that> I assume that you wanted to be sarcastic because we all know that the Chinese never would admit to any wrong doing.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

loangstar — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 02:50:27 GMT

To Adi58:

I cannot speak for mainland Chinese as my ancestors left China 400 years ago and I have never been to China. But there are other ways to help people than encourage confrontation. How would you do for those Palestinarians in Israel and muslins in France and Germany? Do you think the Chinese victims are less important than the Tibetan victims? Do you think the 911 American victims less important than those Iraqi victims from American invasion? Do you think everyone shall respect Tibetan religion but Tibetan does not need to respect other religions? If the Tibetan monks can chop off the slave's hands becasue they did not work hard enough 60 years ago, will they do the same thing after they get back their authority? I just want to see a peaceful dialogue like Dalai Lama has repeated in his plea. I guess you have your own right to pursue your path of helping and I hope you can accomplish more than I can. I am not sarcastic at all in all my postings here. We need to have better thinking as the same problems have been with us for thousands of years.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

loangstar — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 03:50:32 GMT

Let me use California as an example to help our communication.

California was taken from Mexico by the US more than 150 years ago. I have never heard that Mexicans claim California is theirs during all the years I am in California. When Mexicans enter California, they need to get the visa and go through all the normal entrance procedures. Otherwise, they are illegal aliens and are deported once they are identified and arrested.

There are many Native American Reserves in California. If the Native Americans want to build casinos in their reserved lands, they have to negotiate with the State of California and get approval. They often have to pay a very high tax on their income from this operation of casinos.

By any definition or international laws, Tibet is now a part of China. You can change it just like some Mexican or Native Americans can try to change the status of California in the future. Before that happens, Tibet is governed by the laws of China.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

Thinkfirst — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 05:52:04 GMT

To Loangstar: Please, no more citation on US history, please. Let's face their confrontation and don't let them think we are trying to evade.

But I do think US friends should review their own history, as well as their present policies on Iraq and Afghanistan. I believe when my fellowmen cite these, they are not trying to debase the US, nor its citizens. This review simply reflects the fact that when it comes to territory and peace keeping, governments act alike, regardless of political system and religious belief.

So I would rather see discussions focused on media sensorship, or our rules of engagement for civil conflicts.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

zelme — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:19:58 GMT

Tibet was not never a part of CHina until 1949.China itself got its independence in 1911 for Chin empire which was ruled by Manchu(northern ethnicity totally different).Chinese government's claim that Tibet was part of China since 13th century is like Canada claiming that some former French colony in Africa should belong them.In 13th century Tibet and China were part of Great Mongolian Empire called in Chinese history as Yuan dynasty. If we use the same way thinking as China, its much more appropriate to claim that China is inseparable part of Mongolia.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

zelme — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:34:12 GMT

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

HannyGeng — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:36:20 GMT

Disliking communist doesn't justify people's sympathy to terrorists and criminals who burned and hacked innocent persons. The Tibeten people may have different views over history ,religion and culture from other people living in China. Within my knowledge ,1200 years ago ,Tibet was a totally self ruled kingdom and enjoyed an equal status with Tang Dynasty( One of Dynasties in China history).One time even Tibet soildiers occupied Tang's capital Xi'an,now the city where Terra Cotta was near. 800 years ago, Mongul established Yuan Dynasty with Beijing as its capital,Tibet was also under Yuan's governance.Since then Tibet was influenced by China inland government. In Qing Dynasty(350 years ago), the central government had final say in Tibet's important affairs .At the beginning of last century, the Qing Dynasty collaped and China plunged into internal fighting and anti-japanese war (World War II),therefore the central government lost control of Tibet. After the Commmunist defeated the Nationalist and unified most part of China,Tibet again was under the control of central government. A non-commmunist government will do the same . Some people may say we should respect each people's seft determination right for their independence .However reality is not written or controlled by such a simple idea.If this is the case ,Iraq will not be a problem. American overthrew Saddam's regime ,but didn't bring peace to Iraq's people.Sacastically, the former defence minister ,Mr Ramsfiled even shook hands with Saddam when US needed him to fight against Iran. The Kurdish problem in Turkey is the same.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

padmayogini — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 15:46:41 GMT

I dont think you are all attemtping to debase the US or its citizens.. you are bringing up facts about Iraq and so forth.. no debate there. But what gets me is bringing up hawaii, the native american genocide and so on.. we all know these are horrible in-human acts that happened... so why use that to justify the issue of the Tibetan people? Its like you are saying well the US did it, so should we? Human rights in not exclusive to the Tibetans, ...the point is the Tibetans do not self-identify with the chinese...even if they had a political realtionship 350 years ago.. they still recognized each other as seperate. What is going on now is forced assimilation to an overall Chinese govt plan..reloction of other chinese groups into Lhasa making it difficult for the now dwindling population to survive economically ( we all know what a bonfire that can be), as well as directly involving itself in the choosing of Lamas etc etc... So this is not about an economic system such as communism..this is about human rights. btw.. I know there were attacks on the Han ( very very sad), but the attacks on the Tibetans have been going on for years.. remember Palden Gyatso? He is one of many...this morning photos were sent to me from Amdo of murdered Tibetan monks. Ive sent them out to groups who I hope can let people know.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

loangstar — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 23:12:35 GMT

To Promisous:

Do not use Tibetans for your British fear of Chinese like a coward. Come on! Face up to the Chinese like a man if that is what you intend.

Participants are here to talk about their difference and find some ways to help Tibetans and Chinese to defuse their confrontation. Read what Adi58 just wrote early "I try to help on a small scale but it's overwhelming and frustrating how fast we reach our limits". Sure, we have our frustration but we will continue to try with good intention. It is absolutely barbarious to inflame on this unfortunate event.

Years ago, Yo Yo Ma set up music workshops for Israli and Palestinian to play together. Mastro Daniel Barenboim organized an orchestra for Israli and Arab musicians to play together. This is the civilized way to defuse the difference. Your approach is the uncivilized way to inflame on the hatred.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

scroggins — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:08:58 GMT

He seems to have forgotten his own law of Karma however as all that this has achieved is to show Tibet Separatism for the nasty thuggish and utterly regressive movement that it is. Now it has blood on its hands and in a few hours has crossed the line from perceived peaceful victim to vicious terrorist; xenophobic and religiously intolerant, even attacking the religious houses of other faiths.

The Lama has tried to project himself as a kind of Asian Nelson Mandela, but with these attacks, his intolerance of other races and religions and his attempt to reverse the arrival of the modern world into Tibet, he has shown himself closer to being its Robert Mugabe, another old man terrified of no longer being needed by his people.

sam

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

scroggins — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:10:48 GMT

sam

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

HannyGeng — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:59:01 GMT

Human rights are universal .Violence and riots must be stopped .I feel a bit puzzled about what caused these events .Some may argue that it's the government long term policy of forcing assimiliation and relocation of other ethnic Chinese into Lhasa.I have never been Tibet and some of my friends have been there as tourists .I think Tibetan people are more simple and unadorned than some of echnic Chinese who went there for making livings there just like people went to West for gold in 19th century in States.So far there is no gold only Budda and hatred and blood there? Anything can be looked as the two sides of a coin. The central government put a tremendous resources into Tibet to improve local infrastructures,hospitals ,schools and etc .Some may say this is for forced assimilation and disrupts local bucolic life .From one angle ,it can be judged as this .As I know some physicians ,teachers of course some communsist members from other part of China are encouraged to go to Tibet for 1 or 2 years to help local people .This may be discribed as relocation by someone. Actually Tibet plateau is too high and almost no people from other province can adjust to local life there . They have to finish their jobs there and go back to hometown to reunite with their family after 1 or 2 years of hardwork. I personally believe some people who stayed and do business are just like Irish people who went to New Continent for making a living .It may be possible that local people do not get sufficient benefit from booming economy .I am not sure about this .Anyhow the local and central government should recheck this and make some revisions Some may argue local people doesn't need this and they want a calm life and free worship in their deep heart .If the central government hadn't invest a lot into Tibet ,Some may argue :look,look, the Chinese government cares nothing of Tibet . They believe Whatever the govenment does ,the Chinese has a viscious inner mind. What a cynical world!

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

HannyGeng — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:28:43 GMT

The collapse of China is in the interest of someone and some groups ,but not in the interests of people who have stayed in this land and more blood and human rights violation may follow.I don't support Chauvenism and believe extreme nationalism foolish and dangerous. People who love peace and promote human rights must bear this in mind when they address Tibetan people or Han people .Sometimes from my colleagues or friends I received emails in which the contents are about Dalai Lama's blessing for the world and human being. I am a bit amazed the party machine didn't filter it . He left Lhasa when he was very young and never again come back since then .Any person who spent his youth in his hometown must be very nostalgic. I hope the dialogue between two sides can start and reach a balance point to both.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

smartguy — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:21:50 GMT

Hypocracy. Hearsay report.

Look at the riot photo, and look at how CNN P.Sed the photos. Look at German BILD used Nepal photo as Tibetan evidence.

IT's a shame for media, including NW, to report with bias. Totally bias.

It's a shame for people living in such hypocrat nation entitled with freedom and democracy, and believe in lies like WDM exist in IRAQ and Hussain tied to Al-Qaeda.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

padmayogini — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:47:05 GMT

I was going to say something to Promisous about calling the Chinese 'beasts' ...but then I read what Sam had to say.. wow-- thats prerry uneducated, and uninformed...have you ever heard him speak publicly? I have heard what he says to the Tibetans privately when he comes to the states and it has never ever been about intolerence and religious hatred--- which is what I hear coming from you. He is the one trying with all his heart to calm the tempers of the young Tibetans.. he is 72.. when he dies its going to be much much worse than this. Loangstar- I really appreciate the dialouge you have bought to this forum...at least there are a few with class and education.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

JojoChrist — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:54:19 GMT

Let's search for the truth of Tibet.

http://bbs.cjdby.net/viewthread.php?tid=471807&pid=16726819&page=1&extra=page%3D1#pid16726819

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

HannyGeng — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:45:25 GMT

Pls go to CNN to read what James Miles, of The Economist had experienced . http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/20/tibet.miles.interview/index.html

"It was an extraordinary outpouring of ethnic violence of a most unpleasant nature to watch, which surprised some Tibetans watching it";

"At one point, I saw them throwing stones at a boy of maybe around 10 years old perhaps cycling along the street"

"On the second day we came back to the shops and I saw them picking through the wreckage, tears in their eyes. They were astonished, as I was, at the lack of any security presence on the previous day";

"And I think it's more likely that what we saw was yes inspired by a general desire of Tibetans both inside Tibet and among the Dalai Lama's followers, to take advantage of this Olympic year"

I do not want to mislead you in reading these sentences .So the best way is to read the original report. Of course someone may say the author is biased .

Enough is enough.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

loangstar — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:04:44 GMT

I have a lot to say but I am not going to say anything more in this thread. This is my last posting. Let me finish it with the following quotation, which touches me deeply, by Adi58:

"I try to help on a small scale but it's overwhelming and frustrating how fast we reach our limits"

No matter what is your political and ethnic belief, we need a good heart like what Adi58 has.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

padmayogini — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:27:47 GMT

jojochrist-- those images are from nepal...I dont know what you expect.. the Tibetans have tried to many peaceful means for so long, they have been treated like %$*& for years. If you dont think the Chinese govt has been unreasonable and cruel.. ask them where is the Panchen Lama? Why are average Tibetans willing to smuggle their own children out of China for an education in India? All the more power to them,.. the average Chinese should really look at why they have so little compassion for the Tibetan people.. of all the forums I have read I have not read one Chinese show the slightest ounce of empathy, not one question as to why people would have so much anger as to go against their very religion, just hate and prejudice towards them. Maybe the Tibetans are right-- there is no more chance for communication

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

HannyGeng — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 00:51:05 GMT

Pls go to http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html Below is just part of it .Don't turn purposely blind eyes to truth.

A reading of Tibet’s history suggests a somewhat different picture. “Religious conflict was commonplace in old Tibet,” writes one western Buddhist practitioner. “History belies the Shangri-La image of Tibetan lamas and their followers living together in mutual tolerance and nonviolent goodwill. Indeed, the situation was quite different. Old Tibet was much more like Europe during the religious wars of the Counterreformation.” 5 In the thirteenth century, Emperor Kublai Khan created the first Grand Lama, who was to preside over all the other lamas as might a pope over his bishops. Several centuries later, the Emperor of China sent an army into Tibet to support the Grand Lama, an ambitious 25-year-old man, who then gave himself the title of Dalai (Ocean) Lama, ruler of all Tibet. Here is a historical irony: the first Dalai Lama was installed by a Chinese army.

His two previous lama “incarnations” were then retroactively recognized as his predecessors, thereby transforming the 1st Dalai Lama into the 3rd Dalai Lama. This 1st (or 3rd) Dalai Lama seized monasteries that did not belong to his sect, and is believed to have destroyed Buddhist writings that conflicted with his claim to divinity. The Dalai Lama who succeeded him pursued a sybaritic life, enjoying many mistresses, partying with friends, and acting in other ways deemed unfitting for an incarnate deity. For these transgressions he was murdered by his priests. Within 170 years, despite their recognized divine status, five Dalai Lamas were killed by their high priests or other courtiers. 6

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

bwang2005@gmail.com — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 06:32:58 GMT

Don't you see the double standard here? When Americans killed Iraqis, they were called terrorists. When the Israeli government killed Arabian, Americans would say Israel has the right to defend. If the aboriginal were doing similar things (such as killing innocents, robbing stores…) in any American city, will American police shoot them? The whole world knows which nation is the most violent nation on earth.

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

HannyGeng — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:10:20 GMT

The guy whose name is so like promiscuous must have been seriously oppressed by the country he cursed , othewise he would not have such a deep hatred .I offer condolence for his misfortune

re: Tibetan Troubles Spread

robinhhh — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 06:12:06 GMT

I heard something diffrerent from this article. It is written by washington post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/26/AR2008032603275.html