Fallout from Chen Shui-Bian's Dramatic Arrest

re: Fallout from Chen Shui-Bian's Dramatic Arrest

hzchang — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 05:44:08 GMT

A common misconception in the international press about Ma, also found in this article, is that he had never practiced law since he had never passed the bar exam, neither in the US nor in Taiwan.

re: Fallout from Chen Shui-Bian's Dramatic Arrest

CitizenOfTaiwan — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:06:52 GMT

As a citizen of Taiwan, I welcome international scrutiny that help advance democracy in our country - no matter which party is in the office. Unfortunately, Ms. Liu's article here made several serious mistakes.

Firstly, public demonstrations again Chen Yuinlin were granted permission in the city, except for the immediate vicinity surrounding certain venues. Granted, security around Mr. Chen was extremely tight. It was brought on by the verbal and physical attacks launched by DDP and some of its supporters that had continued to escalated with a violent bent in the months leading to his arrival.

Secondly, the police did not attack "peaceful" demonstrators as attested by Ms. Liu. On the contrary, the police only acted to defend themselves AFTER zealous members in the crowd mounted an assault with flying bricks, water bottles, human faeces, as well as local version of Molotov cocktail!

Obviously, Taiwan still has ways to go in terms of perfecting both our political and judicial systems. For every abuse claimed by our former president and the DDP, a counter claim of "presidential" privilege could be raised.

I only pray that by completing the legal process under the glare of the world, all parties in Taiwan will learn to face the one another, and realize that we are, like the old saying goes, in the same boat, sharing the same glory as well as shame. And maybe then, we can do away with politicians and their pundits who are hell-bent on tearing the people apart with their half-truths and searing rhetoric.

Meanwhile, please keep your eyes and mind open...

re: Fallout from Chen Shui-Bian's Dramatic Arrest

CitizenOfTaiwan — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:02:41 GMT

p.s. Nationl a flag continued to fly over the presidential palace throughout Mr. Chen's visit. But the management of Grand Hotel, where Mr. Chen stayed, did remove the flags they put out for the celebration of the National Day (Oct. 10).

re: Fallout from Chen Shui-Bian's Dramatic Arrest

Taiwan Echo — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:42:08 GMT

>>>>

Posted By: CitizenOfTaiwan (November 19, 2008 at 10:02 AM)

p.s. Nationl a flag continued to fly over the presidential palace throughout Mr. Chen's visit.

<<<<

To my knowledge, Ma Ying-jeou tried to hide National flags such that Chen Yunlin won't see it. For example, National flags were not allowed on Chen Yunlin route's or where he stays.

You mentioned that "Nationl a flag continued to fly over the presidential palace throughout Mr. Chen's visit." Has Chen Yunlin ever visited the presidential palace ? If he has, is the National flag in somewhere Chen can see ?

If not, then your statement makes no sense.

re: Fallout from Chen Shui-Bian's Dramatic Arrest

Taiwan Echo — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:21:19 GMT

Posted By: CitizenOfTaiwan (November 19, 2008 at 9:06 AM)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Secondly, the police did not attack "peaceful" demonstrators as attested by Ms. Liu.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

A very quick 10-min net search will be enough to bring tons of evidence (video, photos, articles...) to prove you wrong. Taiwan's media has been hiding the truth from people like you who are lazy to do the homework.

I also want to bring up the attention that among those so-called "protest violence" accused by the police, a guy who was arrested by launching a bike into a group of police, is in fact a pro-blue supporter who pretended to be pro-green:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDTQ-CgM2X4&feature=channel

A netter reports that the police are teamed up with gangsters to apply fears onto people:

http://feedcatcher.blogspot.com/2008/11/blog-post_03.html

The author, coffeeshop, is among those who were arrested by the police without proper cause.

These just a very small part of the police misconduct.

So, CitizenOfTaiwan, if you are really a citizen of Taiwan, do some homework to open your eyes and conscientiousness. Don't live on the lying half of Taiwan.

re: Fallout from Chen Shui-Bian's Dramatic Arrest

Michael Turton — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:03:31 GMT

Execllent article, Ms. Liu. One minor nit: Ma is not a lawyer. He never passed the bar, and has never practiced law. That became an issue in the early 1990s when he was appointed Justice Minister.

Thanks for covering this. The various pro-Taiwan organizations are quite alarmed at what is happening in Taiwan.

Michael Turton

The View from Taiwan

re: Fallout from Chen Shui-Bian's Dramatic Arrest

liuchen_ly — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:33:19 GMT

Thank you, Ms. Liu, for an excellent article. What Ma administration did to Taiwanese is despicable and extremely disappointing, but hardly surprising. I was a graduate student at MIT when Ma was studying in Harvard. It was well known among the students from Taiwan that Ma was paid by the KMT to spy on pro-Taiwan independence students and to report to the KMT government. Such activities created “white terror” even in the land for the free. Many people were blacklisted and were prohibited from returning to Taiwan. He also published Boston Communiqué which acted as a KMT mouthpiece. His lack of respect for freedom, rule of law and basic human rights was evident then. During the presidential campaign, he said all the right things, but his deeds are in total contrast to his words. I sincerely hope that the fragile democracy in Taiwan can endure and survive his brutal assault.

re: Fallout from Chen Shui-Bian's Dramatic Arrest

CitizenOfTaiwan — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 19:17:23 GMT

What I objected to is the seemingly “categorical” claim made by Ms. Liu regarding the police’s attack on “peaceful” demonstrators which is very misleading to say the least.

In some cases,, the police were trying to push off a hostile crowd. In others, they were forced to defend themselves after a prolonged stand-off during which they were viciously attacked by some members in the crowd. Unfortunately, both sides suffered casualties, including more than 100 policemen.

While the judgment made by the higher-ups and the technique employed by the frontline officers left much to be criticized, it is unfair to accuse the police of activating the altercation or engaging intentional abuse from the get-go.

Among other things, Taiwan is blessed with a omnipresent press armed with a fleet of SNG and scores of energetic commentators that would leave no scene uncovered. Fortunately , truth as well as lie has no place to hide from the public, here and abroad.

(Pray that no government will ever dare to repeat what happened during the administration of Chen Shui-bian – forcing the termination of a TV operation!)

For anyone who is genuinely interested in learning about the “whole” picture, or getting as close to the whole truth as possible, a 10-min net search surely won’t do! And slinging unfounded accusations doesn’t really help anyone, does it?

A word of advice for all: stick to the FACTS, and be ware of HALF-Truths.

The value of your words and opinions depends on keeping the shortest distance to the core truth – especially when it is wrapped in layers of complexities and complications. . As isolated as we already are, Taiwan can ill-afford to be “misunderstood” in the international arena.

re: Fallout from Chen Shui-Bian's Dramatic Arrest

totlll — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:43:23 GMT

excellent bias article! why not mention how much money mr. chen shui bian had attempted to illegally take for embezzlement, money laundering, taking bribes, and forging documents while in office? how about the lies mr. chen shui bian claimed that he and his wife had never trying to illegally take money from corporations and hid them oversea?

re: Fallout from Chen Shui-Bian's Dramatic Arrest

HWChen — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:07:30 GMT

Dear CitizenOfTaiwan:

As a fellow citizen of Taiwan, I ask you to open your eyes and mind. Read this article -- http://tinyurl.com/5jxl9d, watch the videos here -- http://tinyurl.com/5jxl9d, and look at the picture of a girl's finger that was broken by the police here -- http://tinyurl.com/5jxl9d. All that girl did was draping a Tibetan flag on her.

re: Fallout from Chen Shui-Bian's Dramatic Arrest

HWChen — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:10:18 GMT

Corrections:

Watch the videos here: http://tinyurl.com/6hxlpu.

Look at the picture here: http://tinyurl.com/5qmp8d.

re: Fallout from Chen Shui-Bian's Dramatic Arrest

jmclin — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:43:26 GMT

Ipersonally don't agree with what tot111(November 26, 2008) has claimed, considering he/she may not be expert in judging the alleged accusation and that the case is subject to further investigation by the special investigation task force and, until now, to different intepretations from different angles.

There were just too many "coincidences" taking place during and after the recent visit of PRC's delegation led by Chen, Yun-lin, who, on various occassions inTaiwan, was deliberately treading on ROC's national flag and Taiwan's independence flag, as well as allusively disparaging Taiwan democratic system, while openly shedding crocodile's tears in expressing his emotional tie with Taiwan.

Read Chen, Yun-lin thoroughly and you will see the whole picture of China's reunification strategy and tactics as well as the contingent measures taken so far and yet to be taken in the future.

Fallout from Chen Shui-Bian’s Dramatic Arrest « Juneplusian’s Blog

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re: Fallout from Chen Shui-Bian's Dramatic Arrest

TaiwaneseAmerican — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:48:44 GMT

Thank you Melinsa Liu for such a fair and honest article, As many may know the KMT is the world's richest political party with assets all over the world. With the help of American Aid during the Cold War, KMT managed to pocket most of it. With all that money came control of the media and massive vote buying and manipulation of the voting process. Apparently Ma Ying Jeou seem to have learned very well from the Chinese Communists about the importance of Media Control. To find the truth about China and Taiwan nowadays, one must go overseas. That is really sad.

re: Fallout from Chen Shui-Bian's Dramatic Arrest

ooiack2008 — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:42:10 GMT

i am disappointed with the whole saga, very! let me put a few just words forward. ah bian defrosted both sides relations while all they wanted were confront. now they want a very warm relation and he is blamed as behind, he is always holding his base line, i think this is an attitute of a good + honest + astute man.

he said one side one country, is his forever direction, his unchanged belief, i respect him, he said it as a Taiwanese Man.

he is prosecuted like this, i say it is a black joke, black opera.

yet they have not charged him, he is so much accused of ALL frauds, from gave balances of spending money to his wife, millions of US$ in swiss accounts, many major decisions he received kickbacks, accuse him of escape out of tw, etc.. u know what, lay the charge and be done. u don't do investigations/special audit/whatever like these, court hearings throught out the night to early morning.

ah bian got the guts then, so i think he deserves a break as a man. Chinese have traditions to worship + turn away completely from emperors. it is time we also learn to give those we once worshiped a break, a dignity while mature in democracy.

count down happy new year 2009, 31dec8 8:43pm