People often confuse situational depression with chemical depression. Everyone will experience situational depresion (sadness) at one or more points in thier life. Chemical depression is completely different. Maybe I'm a placebo fool, but anti-depressants have worked for me. I go through a honeymoon period and their effectiveness declines, but they deffinately work. Having said that, I don't think they work nearly as well as marketed. They can make a minor difference, but it's up to each person to work through therapy or self awareness to find real change.

And to add, anti-depressants are not supposed to be a miracle drug. NO psychiatric drugs are. They are meant to be used with counseling etc. Psychiatric drugs are meant to make the playing field more even. For example, you can't treat a severely depressed person if they never get out of bed, but maybe anti-depressants will help them enough that they WILL get out of bed and come in for treatment. Anti-depressants have been known to be dangerous  in that they can make a depressed person have more energy and feel a bit better...and then kill themselves since they now have the energy. Clearly, they do have an effect. A person needs to find the right medication at the right dose to be helpful

"That suggests that even when patients are taking and benefiting from, say, Zoloft, the vast majority of the improvement is due to what their minds are telling them—that is, the belief that they would be helped. Only the most depressed patients showed little placebo response."

The fact that the author even mentioned Zoloft shows they have little understanding of the different drugs. She's clearly grouping all anti-depressants together, as Zoloft was not even one of the medications studied.

As someone who is on Zoloft, I can tell you it DOES have an effect. I am sure of this because when my dose was too high I became suicidal. It was a horrible, horrible time. As for the kid in the shootings who was going through withdrawal, I can believe it. Just like having too high a dose, going off the drugs can be hard, especially for young adults.

Unfortunetly, a number of these prescriptions for anti-depressants are written by family doctors with very little training in psychiatry. very little time to really listen to their patients, and a drawer full of SSRI samples from the pharmaceutical reps.   Peple who truly suffer from major depressive disorder need to see a psychiatrist.  A psychiatrist will know if an SSRI is an appropriate anti-depressant for you.  There are options besides SSRI for treating depression!  The study here is looking ONLY at SSRIs, not the many other drugs that can be used to target a patient's specific kind of depression.

I have suffered from major depressive disorder my entire life.  I don't know how much money I've wasted on SSRIs prescribed by my primary care doctor.  When I finally insisted on a referral to a psychiatrist, he told me I should never have been on an SSRI--the type of depression I have doesn't respond to that kind of drug.  He put me on a combination of 4 different drugs--ones he selected based on the type of depression I have, not on some vague list of symptoms.  I felt a difference in 48 hours; I was markedly better in two weeks; within three months I was a new person.  My psychiatrist literally gave me my life back.  To think that I might have jacked around for years with my PCP, trying every new SSRI that hit the market!

SSRIs are NOT the only drugs out there, and this study deals only with SSRIs.  If may be that SSRIs are not effective in treating depression, but that doesn't mean some of the other drugs being used right now are not effective.

If you suffer from depression, see a psychiatrist.  You wouldn't let your PCP handle your cancer or your heart disease, so stop letting him manage your depression--see a specialist.

I think we as a society tend to generalize depression. Many of the commercials that advertise anti-depressants make it seem like anyone experiencing depression must be feeling the exact same symptoms and thus need to talk to their doctor about that particular "miracle" anti-depressant. Depression, in my opinion, should be handled on a case by case basis. For many, their depression is situational and can be treated using other methods, for others they don't know the reason for their depression and medication may be helpful. I think we need to accept that some situations in life will leave us feeling depressed and that is normal, but if an individual is unable to function properly on a day to day basis they should most likely seek professional help.

As a 16-year-old who has been on antidepressants for four years, I certainly have an opinion on the matter! There was a time in my life when I would feel utter hoplessness, lie awake at night thinking about death, and, at best, be overcome with a "gray" feeling of nothingness. After getting the pills, I noticed that I felt better within days. Along with therapy, support from my family and lots of prayer, I began to feel like a KID again. I honestly believe that the 'drugs' are why I am able to hold my baby brother today.

    And as for those who think that prayer alone will solve it... would you tell someone with a broken arm just to pray? Deppression is a chemical imbalance that needs to be treated. Yes, praying can help--my love for and trust in God has certainly helped-- but denying people these life-saving drugs is risky at best.

Interesting, I found that a good thing to try are a good detox formula with milk thistle and dandelion to detox the liver (where alot of anger and depression is stored)  Go to FreeTense.com

Also look into GTF Chromium (the liquid form)  

Hope this helps, but of course see your doctor.

It's amazing isn't it?  There are indeed a lot of us...coming together in a "virtual collective roar"... :) ...standing united in our varied collective anxieties.  There would appear to be some connection with the demands of today's world and the stresses associated with it.  All of us are exposed to different stresses in varying degrees of intensity.  Sometimes I think that our brains have yet to "evolve a bit more" in order to catch up with technology and lifes current demands.  All of that said...it does NOT discount the real and measurable physiological conditions that contribute to anxiety and mood disorders!  (Had to get that in for all the nay sayers.)

I believe that cam4196 illustrates well what is likely the problem in most off-putting experiences with anxiety/mood medications -> incorrect diagnosis or prescription...it's not the drug...it's the prescriber.  These aren't bandaides to be "slapped on" at whim.  And there frequently is "fine-tuning" required in type and dosage.

You know I am seeing that a lot of us suffer from anxiety.  We live in a very anxious world, always having to do something or be somewhere.  It also happens to us when we sleep, I get so worked up about not falling asleep.  I think ambien is one of the greatest things ever for sleep, makes me less edgy, I take that, seroquel , Depakote, Topamax, Wllbutrin, and granted I've just started most but I was taking Klonopin and Vicodin (nerves and Headaches) and I'd much rather trt to stop them then become an addict.  

In a week from today I am having to go to court with my son . About a year ago my 16 year old was

prescibed 25mg of paxil for (get this) not being able to sleep or eating very well. This so called cure all drug was prescibed by a local family doctor. My son is now facing the possibilty of having to being locked up for setting his high school on fire.I STRONGLY  FEEL that not for this prescribed drug my son wouldnot begoing though this .He was and still is a fine young man that yet going though ocassional sadness,anxiety and just every day life some expert says  well try this pill it well help .Well it did not it made it worse. Today he is still on a more monitored dose of SSRI

(THAT I AM NOT TO SUPPORTIVE OF because of the with drawl  period that once you start its hard to just quit so that worries me.)and along with counseling , family,friends ,JESUS AND GOD ALMIGHTY my son is alot better. I hope and pray that these ssri are looked at more carefully in the future cause I dont want another family to go through what my family has had to go through. please be praying for him.

For Timm553:

Didn't YOU read the article, which states "The difference between drug and placebo was clinically meaningful only for patients at the upper end of the very severely depressed category."  

In karen1109's case it sounds like it was severe.

I suffer from very severe depression that began in 1991 (maybe sooner).  The doctor's originally prescribed Prozac, that had no effect.  Then they tried Celexa and Effexor, still nothing.  The last drug they tried was Paxil as it was found that not only was I very depressed but suffering from severe panic attachs and overwhealming anxiety.  The Paxil seemed to work at a dosage of 40mg per day (I am a 32 year old, 5'5", 120lb female).

Prior to the Paxil I was very irritable, hopeless, uninterested in anything, couldn't eat, sleep or make a decision and was overwhealmed by the feeling of guilt.  I also had to take time off from work and seriously considered and tried suicide several times.  The only thing that kept me alive was not wanting my children to believe that they wer not enough to keep me alive.  It was the guilt again, but it worked in a positive way.

I have now been on the Paxil for the last 5 years and gone through many life changing events over this time.  Two weeks ago I was feeling very irritable and flustered.  My family, friends and co-workers all noticed the change.  It turned out that I was only taking half the daily dosage prescribed (20mg) due to a pharmacy computer error.

Originally, I wasn't expecting to feel any better when given the prescription because I didn't believe that a little pill could do anything to help me.  I was to the point where I was completely cold and unfeeling, I couldn't even cry anymore.  I had absolutely nothing left.

Prior to my doctor prescribing antidepressants I saw a psychologist, psychiatrist and attended group therapy.  I also tried excercise, aromatherapy, acupuncture, holistic medicine, reflexology, yoga, meditation, (I'm sure I could go on), and saw no results.

I can honestly say that I would not be here today if I had not given Paxil a chance.

To timm553: Yes, I did read the article, and, what should have been obvious (and apparently was to everyone else but you, was that I completely disagreed with it. My point was that my mom had tried one that DID NOT WORK - (hence NO PLACEBO EFFECT). The second one DID WORK - she is healthy and stable, whereas she was definitely not before she took this nedication. IT DOES WORK, and I think a report that was done on shelved studies in the first place is just patently nonsense.

Being someone that was hospitalized for attempted suicide, I would like to say that these "pills" have saved my life.  I've been diagnosed with severe depression and take 4 different medications so that I can function.  I also do therapy once a week.  Without the medications, I become suicidal, have panic attacks, and don't sleep.  Maybe people are mistaking depression for sadness.  Depression deals with a chemical imbalance, not just a sad event.  While I was in intensive therapy I saw a huge difference in one lady that just couldn't find the right medication to work for her.  She started Cymbalta and about two weeks later, she was an entirely different person.  I have to question who exactly they are using for these studies.  Everyone I met in the hospital or intensive therapy desperately needed their medications and I'm willing to bet would say it saved their lives.  

I was on Prozac for 2 years and by the end I felt even more depressed and anti-social.  At my daughters insistence I was reevaluated and I started on Seriquel 5 months ago.  This drug has been wonderful for helping me remain calm and less manic, less stressed over simple problems.  I can manage my anxiety better so that all areas of my life are more satisfying.  I recommend studies on this Seriquel/seritonin.  It works differently than Prozac.  

I can tell you w/ 100% confidence that Paxil works as a treatment for social anxiety.  I really don't know about the anti-depressant part -- I did not start taking it for that.  Were I the type of person who gets depressed over being constantly anxious in social situations, then yes, Paxil would act as an anti-depressant for me too.  I can also tell you for sure that when I skip or miss taking a daily dose of paroxetine, I get feedback that I'm cantankerous and moody, which is feedback that I never get when I stay on dose, so paroxetine does have an effect on moods, or at least it does for me, and trust me that I'd wean off of the stuff (due to some specific side effects) if I wasn't convinced that it works.

As a person who is coming off a very serious withdrawal after taking Effexor for two years (buzzing ears, distorted head) I know it does something.  I don't think Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft, whatever really work for depression, but I do think there are a lot of drugs out there that help with anxiety which follows along with depression.  I have been going through serious anxiety issues for the last month and some of these depression drugs have really helped my anxiety issues.  And some like wellbutrin, topamax, depakote have other uses as well.  So lets not throw away the baby with the bathwater, and lets not crucify the drug companies either.  I did not walk in front of the bus yesterday, and it was ONLY because of the drugs my psychiatrist gave me.  

How much does it really matter if there is benefit in taking the drug?  If it is a psycological issue, it would make sense that a placibo would actually work...  

Mulembo - your understanding is incorrect.  Often there are clinical/chemical/physiological conditions behind depressive/mood/anxiety disorders...you don't reason them away or fix them by leasing a shrink's couch.  Rose colored glasses don't work either.

This Guy - you are NOT "doing it on your own" by using alcohol and drugs as a crutch.  You'll find that out soon enough when you try to stop.

Three (3) Points:

1. Don't doubt that depression is a disease. Since the hypothalamus part of the brain actually shrinks when the patient is clinically depressed, and I do mean clinically depressed, we can see physical evidence of depression and not just the symptoms. Don't tell me I'm not really sick!  

2. Don't be mislead by some scientific studies or some people's anecdotes about how traditional medicine didn't work. Just how sound was the study? Just how objective were the people telling you this? There are too many variables in play: accuracy of diagnosis, family history, lifestyle, severity of disease, age, overall physical health, and depth of social support. Afterall, when I majored in Sociology, it was reported that a shaman (witch doctor) had the same cure rate as a physician! This only speaks to the influence of a placebo and the power of positive thinking often Successfully used in religion and pop psychology. So hey, whatever gets you through the night.......just don't tell me how to treat my depression!

3. Every patient is an individual. Some people can have a little or a lot of depression, just the same way some people can have a little or a lot of diabetes, cancer, head cold....... How many women have asserted that "Tylenol won't touch my cramps; I need to take Ibuprofen"? Tylenol always did fine for me. So don't put me in a study where I'm getting the same medication and dosage of it as the next guy!

Anyhow, I don't take any of those four medications!

Newsweek, publish a better article next time. I'll still make my same points. I lost a lucrative career trying to be valiant and fixing myself with positive thinking.

If  placebos help people with depression, does that imply that "change your mind change your life" theories have something to them?

I have had depression for as long as I can remember and I am skeptical about claims that people can think their way out of depression. Medicine, Wellbutrin, helps, but I am not turning cartwheels. I still feel that most people must feel much better than I do. It is still hard to get things done. Everything feels like and effort. But I would feel worse without the Wellbutrin.

It seem that professionals are treating only part of the problem when they prescribe medicine and do not look at the problems in people's lives which might be making them miserable. Simply giving a person medication implies that they must simply have a better attitude about their situation even when it may be a bad situation.

Since when does one group of individuals opinions and interpretations of some scientific studies  make it true? I have suffered with depression most of my adult life and there is no way anyone will ever convince me that the antidepressants that I have and am taking did something that a placebo could have done just as well. Common sense would say that a chemical imbalance in the brain and body needs the right chemical intervention to help to acheive balance. Believing this article can do more harm than good for a person suffering from depression who is on the fence about taking medication for relief.

I've been dealing with clinical depression by myself my whole life (32yo), and will continue to, I'm sure.  I've never been interested in pills, or a chemical "fix", because I really don't believe in them, or their effectiveness.  Besides, though I have a few screws loose or whatever, I'm still me, and I don't want a pill altering my personality.  I believe, like an addict trying to get their feet under them, you've gotta start with yourself, with your core.  Communication, introspection, and reflection - coupled with positive, purposeful actions are the only path towards lighter times.  It takes time and daily effort - like a recovering alcoholic.  I'm kind of losing my battle as I'm this age and still leaning on drugs, and alcohol (among other things), so I've decided it's time to get my butt into therapy and get another perspective on how to get to those positive, purposeful actions that'll lead me to the right place.  Screw the pills, and face the problem.  Admit your disorder.  Accept it.  Start making changes in your life and begin fighting.  Wish me luck, and good luck to you . . .

In 1997 I was diagnosed with panic disorder. I read many trial studies on the different anti-depressants available to me, and my doctor and I decided on Paxil. Paxil was the first drug we tried and the only one I've ever used since.

To say the least, Paxil saved my life. Not only did it stop my panic attacks from 4 to 5 a day, to none, but it allowed me to finally leave my home. I had become agoraphobic.

There is no doctor, study, research, etc. that would ever convince me that anti-depressants do not work. Maybe anti-depressants don't work for depression, as well as it was once thought, but they sure work for panic/anxiety. A panic attack can't be stopped by a placebo. The symptoms your body experiences are physical and some people can't make these attacks stop without meds to slow the body down. In the past I've tried to quit taking Paxil. Many times I thought I was in a place where I no longer needed the med.  I tried a very slow withdrawal process that took 6+ months. Within a week, I was back to having panic attacks,

My doctor has explained that it is highly likely that my attacks come from a chemical imbalance. No placebo is going to "cure" a chemical balance.

In conclusion, don't believe everything you read....especially when a new study is released. There are many, many, differing opinions between those in the medical field, researchers, drug companies, etc. If an anti-depressant works for you, then that's all that matters. Take care everyone.

To my understanding, depression  comes mainly from how we feel inside and our outlook about the world and life.  I never believe in antidepression drugs as I've told everyone I know. My human intelligence and feelings tell me that it's myself who make me depressed. It's not the world, it's not life itself, it's not anybody's doing. The world and life have always been as they are with or without us.   I  don't have deprression issues like many people claim or think they have. I always keep my mind and spirit on the positive side.  I live to love and enjoy life, every little things life can offer me.

Love and Peace, everyone.

This is horrible news.  My wife lost custody of her two children because she was prescribed Lexapro, Xanax, and Prozac over a 30 year period.  In Pennsylvania, over 80% of parents lose custody of their children if they are prescribed anti-depressents.  Keep in mind, she was diagnosed with plain old depression - she makes over $50K per year, owns two homes, four cars - just a normal person who was in a bad marriage.  If these drugs do not work, then why does a person who takes them face the persecution of our court system?

Don't tell me anti-depressants don't work.  Paxil saved my life.

I started having depressive episodes when I was 16 years old.  We didn't know what it was.  I was finally diagnosed with chronic depression when I was 32 years old.  My doctor prescribed several different anti-depressant medications.  All of them had nasty side effects, and none were effective.  After a year of trying those medications, she prescribed Prozac.  After a few weeks I felt a huge difference.  I was again finding pleasure in daily life.  I could prepare dinner for my family.  I took up my hobbies again.

Over the years since then (1986) I have stopped taking Prozac several times.  Who wants to have to take medication every day?  I was doing fine, and thought I didn't need an antidepressant any more.  At first there seem to be no difference.  Then suddenly I would crash into feelings of hopelessness and despair.  I again tried different "new" antidepressants, with no success.  I tried taking St.  John's Wort, which is supposed to be a "natural" mood elevator.  I hoped it would be the answer.  It wasn't.  When I started taking Prozac again, I once again could function.  My question is this: if anti-depressants don't work any better than a placebo, it would seem that I would have responded to the very first antidepressant my doctor prescribed back in 1986, and to the various others I have tried over the years.  I wanted them to work; they didn't.  Prozac does.  I won't stop taking it because of the research stated in this article.

It just blows me away that this one study, from some obscure University (of Hull in Britain?), has everyone ready to believe  that antidepressants are practically useless.  If you were ever as depressed as I have been for even a week, you'd be willing to try almost anything to make the sadness lift.  I am thrilled that science gave me the option in a pill to try to get out of a very black hole.  I'm even happier that the first drug I tried (Zoloft) gradually began to work almost 3 weeks to the day after beginning the medication.   I won't even try to explain to all of the doubters out there how I suffered numerous and severe episodes of depression for almost 20 years prior to  taking Zoloft, and for the past 10 years on the medication, I have not even had one episode of depression.  No life circumstances changed, still married to same man, same house, same kids, same everything.  Only change, Zoloft.  Who cares what you all think?  It's just another excuse to manipulate the media and see how 'crazed', no pun intended, everyone gets!

How powerful would the placebo response be in studies if, when you sign the informed-consent paperwork, instead of telling you that there was some likelihood that you would receive a placebo i.e. simulated treatment, it said that the *only* thing being administered was simulated treatment?

Placebos work because of the belief in the supposedly real treatment that is the other half of the study. Shatter that belief by sufficiently communicating that the supposedly real treatments don't work, and placebos will stop working as well.

To plc223:

yada, yada, yada.

I have to agree with MNtoFL, there is a difference between being sad/depressed and having a chemical imbalance. Several years ago I developed a panic disorder with an eating disorder twist. I tried yoga, meditation, therapy and exercise but I would still randomly have crippling panic attacks. My doctor prescribed Paxil and slowly the panic attacks stopped and all the yoga, meditation, therapy and exercise finally started to work. I was able to sleep again, go out in public and have a life. I doubt a placebo would have had the same effect.

It seems to me you are putting the cart before the horse.  Antidepressants like Paxil are not primarly antidepressants.  They are medications used primarily to treat anxiety disorder and obsessive compulsive disorder, which, if left untreated, will undoubtedly lead to disorientation, anger and ultimately depression.  I can tell you from personal experience that they unquestionabily work to curb those disorders before they get out of hand.  They physiological slowing of seratonin reuptake into the system clearly keeps a person from "surging" with strong feelings of insecurity, anxiety, and compulsive worry.  How could you focus simply on depression when you are talking about anti-anxiety medication?

Why do I get the feeling that this study was performed by a bunch of Scientologists?  It never ceases to amaze me how afraid so many people are of treating the brain.  As a life-long sufferer of depression, I can tell you that chronic depression is no different than diabetes.  It is a chemical imbalance that can and is treatable with the right medication.  As a society, we need to let go of our fears and face the fact that the brain is another organ in the body that is capable of malfunction.  The idea that the study in question shows that anti-depressants don't work only proves to me that the study was fundamentally FLAWED.  Anti-dpressants have given millions of people their lives back, including me.  And, no, I am not delusional!

The article above is a dumbed down 'for the lay person' interpretation of a NEJM paper.  Even a superficial review of the study structure reveals deep flaws in the NEJM paper.  This fact is acknowledged by the authors.  The paper does NOTconclude that antidepressants do not work, simply that in some patients their effect cannot be separated from placebo.  What the article above demonstrates is the hysteria that can be created whan a non-medical person (ie without a medically related doctorate) draws their own sensational conclusion to boost magazine sales.  Take your medical advise from physicians, NOT journalists!

this article is so sickening to me (to a degree).  i would agree that there are probably a lot of people on these drugs that could use alternative means to get better, and avoid spending money on drugs they may not need.  however, i am positive about how well these drugs work, especially effexor.  i went through a period of absolute hell and it wasn't until i took this drug that i slowly regained a normal state of mind.  then after an extended period on the drug they gradually took me off because they felt i had recovered to the point i didn't need it anymore.  shortly after my original symptoms returned and they had to put me on it again and i remaind on it until last year.  there would also be times i missed a couple days of my dosage (do to stupidity) and that caused the rapid onset of physical symptoms (migranes, being extremely lathargic) plus sever mood swings.  something tells me that being taken off of a placebo would not have the same effects.  physically especially.  then within the last year i found out that the drug which had helped my axiety and such had also magnified my latent symptoms of bipolar disorder (that is what i was told, i may have that wrong).  i was in turn committed to a hospital to start a new medicine, depakote.  i have never felt this good in my life.  now to clear up some confusion, how can i say that the original drug (effexor) helped me when i began to show symptoms of bipolar disorder?  they were

different symptoms - the original symptoms were SEVERE anxiety and also some parts of depression but it didn't help with solving manic episodes.  well before this gets too long, it is already, my point is that i am extremely positive that the drugs i have taken worked well (for what they were meant to deal with) and i would bet my life that a placebo never would have done what the drugs i took/take have done for me.  i just worry that, especially after articles like this, that these medicines are not needed and they should just give placebos. that, i assure you, would be a mistake and it would be a monumentally stupid decision. and beward, these studies can be misleading, on either side of the fence.  

p.s.  in light of the recent tragedy in dekalb, illinois.  can they say that if that young man was on placebos, quiting his dosage would have had as devastating of an effect, or for that matter, have helped to begin with.

'Moreover, Prof. Healey reported his concern that results had not been published of a controlled experiment undertaken by GSK in which 85% of healthy volunteers suffered adverse effects and one committed suicide. Prof. Healey claimed that GSK knew that approx. 1 in 60 adults on Seroxat made a suicide attempt while the figure for placebo was 1 in 550. It would therefore appear that GSK were aware of the risks Seroxat posed prior to their licence application.'

Nearly all of the people commenting here are missing the point, IMO.  The question is not whether these work or not, because the answer in many, not all, cases is "They will if you believe they will!"  So the conclusion you should take from the study is not "I'd be better off taking a placebo.", because if you knew it was a placebo, it wouldn't work at all.  

The upshot of that is you can't even claim the pharma companies are ripping you off, because for the sugar pill to work, you'd have to be told it's something else and charged accordingly.  If it was cheap, you'd be less inclined to think it would work, so in fact it wouldn't.  So take your choice, ripped off by pharma or ripped off by sugar companies.  And for those of think that at least side effects would be diminished, think again.  The side effect rate for placebos in these studies is as high as the drug, because, well, you think it must be doing something.  So in a twisted way for those railing against the pharma companies, you should be laughing at them instead.  The joke is on them.  They've spent untold billions on developing, making, and marketing something and much of it is all for naught.

My favorite was the guy who advised against the scripts because now they've been proven "not to work", but suggested B3 and vitamin C because they work.  That's because you believe they will work!  You're falling into the exact same trap.

My advice:  if they work for you and your happier then keep it up.  If not, give it up, and move onto another med, sugar, exercise routine, whatever.  

Antidepressants are prescribed for anxiety as well, and can work quite well for that.  The calming effect from fluoxetine is the only thing that gets me through the daily grind dealing with several painful chronic conditions, and frequent windstorms in the area I moved to following the destruction of a home due to hurricane.  When considering whether a drug should be available, it's total effect should be examined.  Our system too often goes on witch hunts and ends up shortchanging a certain percentage of folks.

I was on Prozac for a short period of time and it had a significant effect on me. I was taking it to address PMDD (racing hormones and raging mood swings), not depression though. I became SO mellow, my husband made me get off them.  I realized it was just a bandaid to the deeper issue though of personal frustration.   The best solution for depression is God. I was sinking into a depression late last year and God snapped me out of it. No meds, no therapy...just Him.

Complete dribble.  Statistics and studies prove whatever you want them to prove...I smell an agenda here.  From personal experience I know they work...and that not all of them work the same.  Another article recently released presents an interesting argument:  Do animals also experience a placebo effect?  I think not!

Suicidal pets get anti-depressants

February 25, 2008 02:19pm

PETS at risk of self-harm are increasingly being prescribed anti-depressants because they cannot discuss problems in their lives with others, a leading veterinarian says.

Zoo and wildlife medicine specialist with the UK’s Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, Romain Pizzi, told the Telegraph that more pets were being prescribed Prozac.

Tropical birds such as parrots seemed to have been the most affected by depression, Mr Pizzi told the newspaper.

But Mr Pizzi said anti-depressants were only used in the most extreme of cases.

“Firstly, we will change the environment of the animal and make sure it has more stimulation and toys,” Mr Pizzi told the newspaper.

"When we have ruled out underlying medical problems, we try to break the cycle by using Prozac… (which) is given to the parrots in liquid form.

"It doesn't cure all animals, but around two-thirds respond to the treatment. In a small number of cases things will go well until we wean them off Prozac and the problems return."

Mr Pizzi said the severity of some pet’s depression often put their lives at risk.

"Typically if people go out to work all day their parrot will get very bored and frustrated and eventually develop depression,” he said.

“Symptoms often include plucking out their feathers or self-harming, which is obviously very dangerous.

“When cockatoos in particular are depressed they can start to self-mutilate and peck their own legs to the bone."

Some of the world’s largest pharmaceutical companies have also recognised the need for anti-depressants for animals.

Last year, Eli Lilly released a chewable anti-depressant for dogs onto the US market.

The manufacturers even gave the “Reconcile” drug a beef flavour.

Pfizer has also created a diet drug for dogs, as well as motion-sickness medicine for all pets.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23271578-1702,00.html

To timm553,

WOW.  You're one of those people who thinks they know everything, I guess.  Read the article again, genius.  It doesn't say what you obviously think it says.  And you may want to work on your delivery.  There are ways to say things without being rude and insensitive, like you were to karen1109.  

I think the bigger problem is that anti-depressants are overprescribed and don't work for those who DON'T really need them. However, there are people who DO NEED them and this is the group for which the drugs work more effectively than the placebo. Anti-depressants aren't a quick fix for our problems...but they are a good solution for people who have real chemical imbalances.  Doctors need to quit overprescribing them and drug companies need to stop pushing them as if they will make everyone feel better. They can actually make people who really don't need them feel worse.

I just can't really agree with all that and believe there needs to be more studying. How about people with OCD???  I take zoloft which gives my brain a chemical it lacks in seretonine. This helps my OCD lessen significantly. Since I started taking zoloft my repeat thoughts in my head have gone away by 90-95% and my rituals about 80% so saying zoloft hasn't heped me is b.s.!!!! I don't know about depression...but surely with OCD it helps!

I agree with zzrider.  Many people treated for "moderate depression" (and thus many subjects in the studies) are not depressed to begin with.  What we need is a better diagnostic tool.  

Having studied anti-depressants for years, I am extremely happy to finally see this report coming out.  As much as most people hate, are loath to admit, Tom Cruise was right, has been right.  The drug companies has squashed numerous scientific studies showing the ineffectiveness of these drugs.  Instead, drug companies have focused 'testimonials' for evidence.  While testimonials are nice, they aren't scientific.  Testimonial evidence is reserved for diet pills and the like.

One of the reason why testimonials are so strong in regards to the anti-depressant debate is because people firmly believe the drugs work.  This belief is re-inforced when users of anti-depressants attempt to get off of them and find themselves suffering from real debilitating symptoms.  These symptoms are often the side effects of chemical dependency on the anti-depressants.  Many users of anti-depressants are 'hooked' and they often go from one anti-depressant to another when their doctor thinks that the dosage of one is too high.

"One gram of niacinamide (vitamin B3) and one gram of vitamin C each taken three times a day (total of three grams a day of each) cures most depression."

my mother's been taking high doses of both since the early 70's and she's both highly depressed and arthritic.  but maybe that's what you mean by "most depression"?

I take Paxil daily for anxiety and severe mood swings due to hormonal fluctuations.  The older I get, the worse the hormonal fluctuations I have tried herbs, therapy, bio feedback, hormone replacement, and nothing at all.  You name it - I have tried it.  There is something to be said for whatever "slight spread" that these drugs provide.  Even if I inadvertently miss a dose, I feel different and off kilter, I am tense and unpleasant to be around, my mood swings are severe.  While I know that some people benefit from the placebo, I also know that others need the real thing.  This article proves that.  Oh, and FYI - I am one of the few that need the real Paxil and not the generic.  I would love to spend $9/mpnth for the generic instead of $109/month for the real deal.  My insurance does not cover either, and the formula is just off enough to render the generic useless for me.  So trust me, the extra $100/ month is a small price to pay for not only feeling human, but being the best mom and wife that I can be.

This would explain why it took me 40 years of suicidal depression to find one that works. It might just be that, rather than not working at all, patients and medication are not being paired up right. To everyone out there suffering as I did, hang in there. There's an answer and life is WONDERFUL once you find the right one. Now if I can just lose all the weight I gained on the wrong medications.....

Your all just lab rats, and cash COWS to the doctors, and drug companies. Haven't you figured that out yet!

MNtoFL... I completely agree with you and also karen1109, If it weren't for these little blue "happy pills" I don't know where i'd be today. These pills aren't for the sad, they are for the chemically imbalanced. I am in such a better place now than i was before and i thank my doctor for recognizing what i needed. BOOHOO on you Tom Cruise!!

I think there is a serious problem with making a broad sweeping claim that "anti-depressants" don't work. The drugs that are in these studies are of the SSRI type, not some of the others on the market. There are some very sound studies that indicate that anti-depressants like Wellbutrin XL and others ARE effective. I was on Effexor for 2.5 years and it didn't do much except make me sleep a whole lot and gain 40lbs. I requested a change to Wellbutrin XL and can tell you that I have been greatly helped by this drug (before I went on Wellbutrin, I lost 20lbs within 2 weeks of stopping taking Effexor). People could say I am having a placebo effect with Wellbutrin, but why didn't I have one with Effexor?? There was no reason for me to believe that Wellbutrin would work better than Effexor for me, except that it was clear to me Effexor was NOT working. There needs to be more studies and more sound research to be able to conclude that they don't work, and all the different types should be included in the study, not just a select few.

Wow...as a 15 year user of Zolfot, I can sinecerly say it has dramatically chnaged my life for the better. Diet & exercise did not work, nor did consuling. Therefore anyone who hasn't been there, should keep their opinions to themselves. So what that there were negative studies, as there were positive studies as well. I would honestly like to know the adgenda of those trying to de-bunk the benefits of using these drugs. To say the negative studies are the catchall and not the positive ones is just as bad. There has to be a balance. I know that differentr drugs worked differently for different people just as the does one takes needs to be adjusted. I started with a small dose and it didn't work until I found the right one. I did not see in the "negative studies anything that spoke about dosage.

Many of us have warned repeatedly that these drugs do very little for you. But the side effects of these drugs have killed tens of thousands of you. And injured millions. Not to mention the cost.

The American Medical health care has become completely incompetent at treating emotional, and mental illness without overuse, and dependence on very dangerous, and powerful drugs. Sad...:-(

The plea to “First do no harm” has been replaced with “above all, make as much money as you can.” All those needless deaths...:-(

I am not at all questioning the validity of this article, but I do know that you have to be careful receiving medical and psychological news from news sources. In order to write in lay terms, they often don't give enough information for people who do know how to read a study to tell whether or not the study they are reporting is any good. Also, I have read many "new discoveries" that I heard about in my psychology classes several years ago. So often, the stories they report are old news in the field, and are occasionally distorted. So read things like this with a grain of salt. They aren't saying drugs NEVER works, just that there is a LARGE placebo effect, so people should be careful spending money on them.

By the way, show me even one study anywhere that proves that depression is a result of a "chemical imbalance in the brain" and that "anti-depressants" resolve this imbalance. I have reviewed over thirty years of research articles in this area, and so far, I have not found any.

How ironic. The FDA, in their drug-company-influenced "wisdom", just last Thursday forced a cherry growing company to a consent decree of permanent injunction as a result of the company supposedly making unapproved drug claims about their products, such as "Chemicals found in cherries may help fight diabetes." Note that they said "may". Now more and more evidence is surfacing showing that the drug companies do not submit articles to medical journals which demonstrate that their products do not work. In fact, especially when prescribed by physicians for adolescents, these drugs have probably caused many more suicides than they have prevented. FDA says that for any drug to be approved and sold, it should be proven to be safe and effective. These drugs have never been shown to be either.

Ok, I thought I was done but the reactions to this article are getting me, not the article itself.  I have suffered from clinical depression for 20 years.  I was very active in highschool - honor student, cheerleader, excellent scholarship to college, but something was wrong.  I didn't know what but it resulted in my suicide attempt.

After years of talk thearpy I my thearpist advs to enter into the medications and once I hit on a combo that worked it has been amazing.  At first I thought I was experiencing mania - I could clean my entire house in 1 day, not just a room a day, get laundry done and still have engery for my kids - she then explained to me that this is what "normal" feels like.  I have never looked back.  However I have been discrimated against.  

As an insurance agent for many years I am still upset that Life Insurance Companies discrimate against those on depression medications or those that have been treated for any mental illness.  Health insurance companies discriminate against it by charging higher rates.  I have experienced both.  

True - those of you that feel we are just sad or can't cope, or are eating an unhealthy diet (I have been organic for 5 years and now support local sustainable farming) will never listen.  It is because of people like you that we are discrimated against.  Again, until you walk in our shoes don't  pass judgement.  

If the depression is caused by a deficit in neurotransmitters the condition will respond to some of the antidepressant medications available by prescription.  Not all types depression are related to neurotransmitter deficits, but dopamine and serotonin deficits are linked to depression. Depression is not one problem, but a group of problems, not all having the same causes.  Episodes of depression typically have a situational component, but whether that component causes the depression or whether a existing neurotransmitter deficit causes a person to focus on situational problems is an open question.

To a person who suffers from depression, any relief is welcome. Whether the relief is caused by the placebo effect or is a therapeutic effect  is of little importance to the person taking the medication, at least in the short term. If the effect is a placebo effect, that effect will be short lived.  Any actual therapeutic effect from a drug should last for a longer period of time, usually as long as it takes the brain to adjust to the effect of the drug and counter its effectiveness by compensating for the effect the drug induces. This is why it is not uncommon for an antidepressant to become ineffective over a period of six months.

I have taken many different types of antidepressant medications. Some had no effect. Some had a placebo effect. Some had therapeutic effect, but  came with side effects worse than the depression.  Some worked for a time, and worked again later after having not taken the medication. None of them worked over a period longer than six to seven months.  

Two of them have worked well enough long to allow me to learn the coping skills I needed to deal with the depression, and one of them helped me make it through a period of severe depression secondary to trauma. My injury caused my brain stem to release norepinephrine into the bloodstream far too easily, which caused me to release too much adrenaline, and to release it too often. While the excess adrenaline presented its own problems, the constant secretion of norepinephrine from the brainstem resulted in deficits in both serotonin and dopamine, as the brain uses norepinephrine as a precursor to make those neurotransmitters.

Two antidepressants were useful during the time it took for me to learn how to manage the condition. For me, those two antidepressants worked, and they worked because they acted on the cause of my depression, which was neurotransmitter deficits. One helped increase the amount of dopamine available in the brain, the other was an SSRI which helped me make the most of the serotonin I had available. I went through a time when my depression was so severe I could not experience any positive emotion... no joy, no happiness, no satisfaction, no pleasure. The medication helped me through the deepest part of this experience, When I learned how to manage the adrenaline release problem, I no longer needed the medications.

It is a mistake to conclude antidepressants are ineffective because a number of studies find no statistically significant difference between the drug and a placebo without considering the structure of the study. I suspect what the studies actually show is that when antidepressants are prescribed by family doctors to patients complaining of generalized symptoms of depression, the effect on those treated will vary between patients, and as group, may have no provable therapeutic effect.  Change the parameters of the study to a group of persons shown to have serotonin deficits secondary to a physical problem, and the study of an SSRI will indicate a therapeutic effect.

The problem is that there is money to be made selling the medicine. Pharmaceutical companies peddle their medications across the board, as treatment for "depression" and bury in the fine print that they are SSRI medications, or dopaminic medication, and in marketing the drugs gloss over the fact that they do not work for other conditions. The doctors are the buffer against liability on the part of the pharmaceutical companies as they are charged with knowing the fine print. The truth of the matter is that most doctors who are asked to prescribe antidepressants are probably ill equipped to make a meaningful diagnosis of the root cause of depression, haven't the time to delve into the cause, and hope the medicine helps. Most patients don't seek treatment from physicians trained in the field. The problem lies in economics of the medical care industry and the economics of the pharmaceutical industry.  To say the antidepressant do not work based on the studies cited is a generalization that is less accurate than it may appear to be.