At the Game Developers Conference earlier this month, we met with Nintendo general manager and design legend Shigeru Miyamoto for a thirty-minute interview. Just the day before, Miyamoto had taken the stage at San Francisco's Moscone Center for a keynote address explaining the philosophy behind his approach to making both software (games) and hardware (controllers.) The response was positive, yet mixed, partly because many were hoping against hope that he would introduce a game (he didn't, instead showing a slick new trailer for the already announced Super Mario Galaxy), and partly because his Sony counterpart Phil Harrison had blown away attendees a day earlier with a demonstration of a new PlayStation 3 platformer, the Miyamoto-esque LittleBigPlanet.

Yet when we sat down with Miyamoto, the horse race among the three consoles was far from his mind. Radiating the same sunny, slightly steely optimism that he's displayed through all of Nintendo's ups and downs, he spoke at length about why his keynote looked back rather than ahead; why third parties--and the fourth-string teams they often assign to Nintendo games--are responsible for those games' low sales; and what he thought of PlayStation's then just-announced Home and LittleBigPlanet. Excerpts:

Level Up: There were a lot of Nintendo fans that were expecting--or hoping, rather--that something new would be announced during your talk at GDC. Instead, it was more of a look back, at how you got to where you are today as a designer. Why did you decide to make that the focus of your talk, rather than get into something new? Is it because of the secondary stock offering, or were there other reasons why you chose to look back?

Shigeru Miyamoto: Well it's true that because of the secondary stock offering that we're in a quiet period and can't announce any new information right now, but that's not the reason that I decided to do more of a look at how things have changed over the years. Part of the reason I gave the speech I did is that for the last seven years, we've talked a lot about the expanded user base, the problems with the game industry shrinking in Japan, the potential for that to happen here in the U.S., but it's been a lot of talking about it on the surface and not really getting into the meat of the subject. We never really up until now had a sense of how to turn what we saw [as] the solutions to those problems into reality. We finally with the DS were able to achieve that and see the changes that we've been seeing in the market. This time, I really wanted to take the experiences I've had with the DS and the Wii and try to share some of the understanding that I've gained with others.

We've talked about how videogames have been advancing as technology advances. We've questioned whether there was really a need for graphics to continue to improve the way they have and processors to continue to improve the way they have. But we didn't really have any concrete examples of how you could forego those types of advances and still have a revolutionary new gameplay style. So I really felt that now that we had some concrete examples of some of these ideas that we'd been talking about, that it was a good time for me to talk to the developers themselves about some of the ideal ways that we see creators can interact with technology and find different ways to use technology to bring their ideas to fruition.

But at the same time I wanted to clear up some misunderstandings that some developers have about what Nintendo is trying to do, and make it really clear that we're not saying that you need to turn your back on technology. We're not saying that the game industry is bad and that we don't like what people are doing. I wanted to take this opportunity to explain what my vision has been as a designer and a developer, and share that with them to help them better understand the things that we've been saying by using some of these concrete examples and looking back at some of the things we've been doing over the past several years.

One of the biggest points of my speech is that there was a time when Space Invaders and Super Mario came out when videogames were at the center of pop culture. It was huge news. Everybody knew what Space Invaders was. Everybody knew what Super Mario Bros was. The world used to react to games and respond to games in a way that I haven't seen it doing in a long time. I wanted to try to convey the idea to people that the expanded audience isn't just about reaching out to new people but in fact it's about trying to get videogames back to a central position in pop culture and getting the world to pay attention to videogames again.

Sorry for such a long answer. [Laughs.]

It's a good answer. One of the challenges that third party developers have faced when making games for Nintendo platforms is that they have to compete against the games that you make. Because you do such a good job, and people like Mr. Iwata and Reggie do such a good job marketing your games, it's very hard to compete against your games. When you look at the opportunity that the Wii has around the world, with a trajectory of growth that's faster than Xbox 360, and faster than PS3, it seems that Nintendo has a chance to maybe get to a dominant position that it hasn't had since the NES and the SNES. But the missing component is that third parties still seem to be able to do a better business on PlayStation platforms or Xbox platforms. So I'm wondering, even though it's not your job--and you're very busy with your own job, which is to make great games for Nintendo--is there something you need to do, or Reggie needs to do or Mr. Iwata needs to do, to help those third parties who are making great games for DS or for Wii reach the audience on your platform that you speak to so well from a development perspective and a marketing perspective? What does Nintendo need to do to help Nintendo gamers reach out to those games and buy them?

Bill Trinen, translator: He gave you a long answer, and you gave him a long question. [Laughs.]

Level Up: A fair exchange.

Miyamoto: I can see how it may seem like that's the case. People have said the same thing in Japan in terms of the sales of the third party games. Obviously one thing that Nintendo does, and we continue to try to do, is to create new interfaces. That's going to give third party developers the opportunity to come up with new ideas, and we think that there's going to be a great number of opportunities for people to do that with Wii. And with those new ideas, there's going to be the chance to really break out.

We're already seeing examples of this in Japan with Nintendo DS. One good example--it's obviously a very different style of interactive game--is a piece of kanji assessment software. You write kanji on the touchscreen, and it tests how much kanji you know. It was a very small developer that made this game, and they only spent a few months on it; I don't even think they spent even a year. I don't know the exact numbers, but that alone has sold nearly 600,000 copies, or somewhere thereabouts. So we're already seeing chances like this for people who have unique ideas that can only be achieved on that particular platform having great success.

Partially, I think that once third parties are able to look at these examples, take their great technical know-how, and combine that with some ideas that they have about how to achieve new ideas that can only be achieved on that particular piece of hardware, then I think they're going to have the chance to really see some great success. But ultimately, it depends not so much on trying to add new elements to existing games; it really depends on the posture of the creators and the managers of those third parties to encourage them to take some risks and come up with some new and unique ideas.

Sega put together a unique interface with the DS using a card reader for a product that they've been selling for some time in the game centers. It's called Love and Berry. There are these little dolls, and there's these cards for the dolls, and you pass them through th card reader to interact with them on the DS. This was a very unique system that they developed, and they've sold over a million copies of that. Then of course there's Dragon Quest Monsters, put out by Square Enix, which in Japan--it's a very simple touch screen-based RPG--I think that as well has sold over a million copies. So we're already seeing a lot of examples of Japanese third party developers who are coming up with unique ideas that really take advantage of the unique features of the hardware and turning those ideas into very successful products. Tamagotchi is another one.

If there's only one piece of advice that I could give to the managers of third party companies, it would be that a lot of times it seems that when they're putting games out on Nintendo hardware, those games are being developed by their third-string team or their fourth-string team. Maybe that's because they see those products as being unique projects or somewhat smaller-scale projects. But when Nintendo puts out a title that is designed to really support and sell its hardware, that title is always developed by one of our number one teams. And so I think that when it comes to the question of trying to compete with our software, I would really like to see the parties try to do that with their number one teams rather than with the third- or fourth-string teams. [Laughs.]

After the Sony keynote from Phil Harrison, there were a number of people who were drawing comparisons between Home--their Second Life-like lobby interface--and the Miis; you have Miis on your T-shirt right now. They were drawing comparisons between that and Mii Plaza. Sony also showed LittleBigPlanet--this platform game where you can create your own levels and other things, by a company from the U.K.--and a lot of people said it was very Nintendo-like in terms of the characters and the game. I'm curious about whether you had an opportunity to see some of the video footage from either Home or LittleBigPlanet, and what you thought of it. Do you feel like your competition is copying you, or do you feel that they're helping move the medium forward?

Actually, I haven't seen the videos, but I have heard I have heard some things about them, that people were talking about them. As far as the idea that maybe Sony is doing things similar to Nintendo, to be honest, I would be happy the more companies that I see that that tried to do like Nintendo is doing and break out and do something different. I'd been very worried that the videogame industry had been progressing in too much of a straight line, all in the same direction. So the more that other companies can get out and try to break beyond that and move in different directions, that makes me happy for the industry as a whole.

With regard to the PlayStation Home, obviously we have seen a lot of people who have been interested in doing that type of thing for a long time, from Little Computer People to what we have done with the Miis to the Sims, so a lot of people have looked at different ways to take that and do something with it. I wouldn't be surprised if we also did something along those lines further in the future.

Along the lines of Home, or more in the direction of LittleBigPlanet?

In terms of taking the Miis and expanding them, that virtual kind of Sim-type experience. It's something that a lot of people have already done and shown interest in, and we have a lot of people internally who are interested in that type of a project too. As far as the editor goes, obviously we've worked with editors for a really long time. The first game that we put an editor in was Excitebike back on the NES. Playing games is fun, but another fun experience in games is creating and creation. As I discussed in my speech yesterday, creating Miis is almost like taking part in game development to a certain extent. The more I see editors like this being implemented into games, the more excited I get. There's definitely a sense of mutual understanding that I have in terms of why people would want to do something like this.

The problem with things like editors is that they're very difficult to create in a way that can be turned into a viable product or can be easily used by a lot of people. Often times, it can take a lot of time. So it's really just a question of how well they're able to execute on that. But of course, I'm not saying that Sony hasn't also been doing these types of projects over the years. They have a lot of talented developers that they've been working with, and they've all had some different but still similar ideas to these. People tend to work on a lot of projects over time, so it's not like Sony's never done anything like this before. But it really is more a question of PR posturing in terms of when they're focusing on these types of announcements and bringing to the public light. So I think the fact that at their keynote this week they focused on some maybe very Nintendo-esque type projects, it makes me happy and I think it's good for the industry. Because the more that people try to go in these unique and creative directions, the more possibilities that open up for the industry as a whole.

Jenny Majalca, publicist: We're out of time.

All right.

Miyamoto: I was a little late, so if you want to throw in one more you can. And my answers were long too. [Laughs.]

I would ordinarily, but I don't want to keep Reggie [Fils-Aime, president of Nintendo of America] waiting. Thank you very much for your time.

Trinen: You don't have to be afraid of Reggie. [Laughs]

He won't kick my ass and take my name? [Everyone laughs.] Thanks again.