Objection: Is the Cultural Trajectory of Videogames Doomed to Parallel That of Comic Books? Part I

re: Objection: Is the Cultural Trajectory of Videogames Doomed to Parallel That of Comic Books? Part I

Ginger Yellow — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:11:17 GMT

There's also the point that comics are increasingly respected, especially here in Britain. I gather there's still a lot of resistance to the idea of comics or graphic novels as literature in the US, but in the UK the likes of Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman are as well respected as any mainstream novelist. Every bookstore has a graphic novel section, the London Review of Books ran Art Spiegelman's In The Shadow of No Towers, and newspapers frequently review graphic novels. And, among my age group at least, non-"literary" comics are widely accepted as well.

re: Objection: Is the Cultural Trajectory of Videogames Doomed to Parallel That of Comic Books? Part I

Borut — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:58:18 GMT

It's Pfeifer with just two f's, but hey, glad to have the discussion increased in scope. :)

re: Objection: Is the Cultural Trajectory of Videogames Doomed to Parallel That of Comic Books? Part I

trip1ex — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 06:32:50 GMT

Well games are a broad category. I think Nintendo is trying to branch out of what exactly constitutes a video game and they are giving us experiences that can fit into a responsible lifestyle without having to make gaming your 2nd career.

IF you're talking games like the big gaming sties love which are found mostly on the 360 or PS3 well then I think they remain in that infantile state. Most folks with jobs and homes and families don't have time to play games. Thus they don't buy them and don't influence the content in them. And the content in them remains directed at the audience that does buy games aka the 13 yr old -22 yr old. These kids haven't seen half the tricks I've seen in games and so it's all new to them. And thus developers just regurgitate stuff for the new generation. And makes the images more shocking to appeal to the youths even more which only turns off the guy with the family and home and job even more and the cycle continues until he drops out.

re: Objection: Is the Cultural Trajectory of Videogames Doomed to Parallel That of Comic Books? Part I

StolenName — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 06:40:14 GMT

I've just taken up reading comic books in an effort to broaden the scope of the media I consume. In the past, I consumed books and loved them, often trying to read huge novels at twelve even if just to see if I could read them and understand what they were trying to say.

Now, though, the number of books I read have fallen substantially, since drinking and gaming at University took priority (I don't count reading the actual core literature of the course as reading, I was usually drunk when taking it in!). Now, though, after noticing how much I've been focussing on gaming to the detriment of my personal self-development, I'm returning to literature.

I've noticed now, though, that my reading and gaming comes in cycles. I'll spend a few years reading and then taking a break. Seeing this decline in the number of American readers (keeping in mind I'm an Australian) does startle me some though. The written word is still a powerful means of communication, especially when compared to the complex narrative and ideas behind classics such as The Great Gatsby and The Doll House (I mention these because I was forced to study them haha) that are still socially relevant today - and more so than any sit-com I've ever watched, which may touch, rarely, on substantial topics but are quickly forgotten. Heck, I can't remember an issue raised by I Love Raymond or Friends that has stuck with me, at all.

That said, one of the reasons I don't read as much as I did in the past is because I'm out of touch with the author's I used to like and love, and what topics I'd like to read about. It's difficult to walk into a book store, pick up a book and know whether you're going to enjoy it or not. However, I can walk into a video store and pick up a movie or game, check the cover, check the director / developer / publisher and have a discerning opinion on the spot. Books aren't marketed like other media are. Heck, the decline in comics in the mainstream I'd say is non-existent. How the hell are they going to become a cultural mainstream if they're not marketed?

Sure, Marvel and DC are out there, licensing films but they're the lowest common denominator. The Darkness was the first marketed game I've seen in a while that encouraged me to pick up the comics and read them and I was rewarded for my efforts. You know, even comics like Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, which I've enjoyed reading, are rife with violence on the surface but offer a great depth in social commentary for anyone that bothers looking at the underlying themes. Are there any courses at university that study the combination of visual and textual representation in the US? I can tell you there are NONE in Australia yet I can tell you now, there were a tonne of lecturers that loved comics but couldn't teach them - ditto with games.

In my opinion, and please note that I'm not entirely informed but rather speaking from experience, that people would read if they knew where to start - and sometimes that might mean a good, solid, targeted marketing plan. And regarding comics, you don't see them anywhere. It's like you needed to get yourself hooked and educated in order to understand what was going to be a quality read. With some high-profile, high-budget marketing, I do believe you might see more people interested in reading comics. Though I could be completely wrong.

Video games, I believe, with their current momentum could be heading somewhere. Though I don't believe we'll see many titles like BioShock that convey complex ideas so well, or Planescape: Torment that provided such a complex and interesting story told in such an excellent way really hit the mainstream very often. Not unless the critics get up behind them, unify and push in such as way as happened with BioShock. In fact, I'd like to see the mainstream gaming media pick up more titles and push them, without prompt from publishers who want to pimp the game that will bring them cash. I mean that the gaming media needs to pick up independent titles that might have the right idea and push THEM instead.

On our gaming website, www.gamingsa.com, I'm attempting to find and follow good, solid, independent games that either have something to say or something unique to offer and provide them with a no-strings attached push and follow through. Given that we don't have such a large readership (though it has grown since I've been active from 60,000unique per month to 120,000 unique since May last year), I'm hoping we'll be able to give those unique games that fall by the light weekly updates. Keep them in the mind of our readers and push their sale or proliferation.

Sorry, I know I'm ranting. What were we talking about again? Oh, and can someone please recommend me some good books and comics! I'm looking for something cyber-punk, dealing with gaming / net culture, or present day and future social issues based on current events. Complex request, I know.

re: Objection: Is the Cultural Trajectory of Videogames Doomed to Parallel That of Comic Books? Part I

Ginger Yellow — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:07:50 GMT

"Oh, and can someone please recommend me some good books and comics! I'm looking for something cyber-punk, dealing with gaming / net culture, or present day and future social issues based on current events. Complex request, I know."

Not strictly cyberpunk, but Scott Pilgrim is deeply immersed in gaming culture. Loads of references to 8-bit games and the whole thing is structured like a video game. Scott has to fight all of his intended's ex-boyfriends in end-of-level-boss style battles to prove his worth. As for present day and future social issues based on current events, the most obvious one that springs to mind is Ex Machina, a Brian K Vaughn series about a guy who gets the power to talk to machines, saves thousands of lives on 9/11, and becomes mayor of New York. It's really, really good and is as much about politics as it is about the superhero stuff.

Another excellent Vaughn comic is Y: The Last Man, which just finished its run. It's ostensibly abuot the last man on earth after a mystery virus wipes out all the male animals, but it combines your usual quest structure with explorations of how society would cope with such a tragedy and some fairly sophisticated (for comics) analysis of gender politics.

re: Objection: Is the Cultural Trajectory of Videogames Doomed to Parallel That of Comic Books? Part I

N'Gai Croal — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:05:47 GMT

@Borut: Fixed!

@trip1ex: Some of Nintendo's Wii and DS games, like Brain Age, Nintendogs, Wii Sports and Wii Play, have solved the first part of Gaynor's critique, which is accessibility. And they've done so in clever ways, whether in terms of game design, interface or marketing. But for the most part, I'm not sure that, I don't think they've had any impact on the second part of what Gaynor was trying to address, which is culturally relevant and mature subject matter, which he believes is an important part of changing the the perception of games as being juvenile and for children. People are perfectly capable of holding opposing thoughts in their heads, and just because they play Wii Sports doesn't mean that they believe that videogames are a serious medium.

But I will say this: there may be a subtle genius in what Nintendo's done with Brain Age and Wii Fit. By building these highly accessible games in such a way that they encourage people to play them on a daily basis, in part by making players believe that they're both healthy and entertaining, Nintendo is weaving its product into the fabric of our everyday lives. Wii Fit may not be "Citizen Kane," and Brain Age might not be "The Godfather" but they might be Jane Fonda's "Workout" video and "Jeopardy," respectively. That's progress.

@StolenName: I hear you on reading less these days. I blame blogs.

@Ginger Yellow: If Entertainment Weekly is anything to go by, videogames should aspire to the cultural relevance of comic books, because the magazine makes space in its books section every 4-6 weeks to review comic books and graphic novels. Not so for videogames, even though they used to do so four or five years ago. If I'm not mistaken, the reason EW ditched videogames is because they believed that their predominantly female audience wasn't interested.

Also, great recommendations in "Ex Machina" and "Y: The Last Man." Either of them could be the basis of terrific videogames: "Ex Machina" as a Grand Theft Auto meets Spider-Man open world game; and "Y: The Last Man" as a BioWare or Bethesda-style RPG.

re: Objection: Is the Cultural Trajectory of Videogames Doomed to Parallel That of Comic Books? Part I

cdreader — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:17:27 GMT

Stolen Name - I think that there's quite a bit of cyberpunkish fiction out there, the best (and with the best comentary on society) depends on how you. To point you in some directions for books (since comics were covered, and well) I'd say check out "Kiln People" by David Brin, he also wrote a non-fiction book on privacy and technology that fits with that novel. You're hopefully familiar with Will Gibson, but his most recent series, ending with Idoru is worth reading as well.

More on topic, does it help that I spend time with my friends in games online as much as I do in person? We've begun our post college diaspora, but stay in touch through a guild in WoW, and XBox Live. They're already a major method that we use to stay in touch, replacing phone calls and letters. This peer created content within games makes the multi-player aspects therein important for me.