MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

poppabk — Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:21:41 GMT

I think Zelda is to video games as James Bond is to movies. We have numerous James Bond movies which have very similar plots but they are still popular. Every James bond movie has a trip to Q to pick up items which will become uniquely useful later in the movie and none of which will be redundant. There is the same trip to M, the ubiquitous bond girls, the bad guy with the evil plot etc etc. Its a formula that we know and love and it is only superficially updated.

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

SuperEffective — Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:59:41 GMT

Best Zelda ever: the story, when there, is light and easily skipped though charming and brief enough to convince you not to. It's also the first entry in the franchise that didn't find me fighting the camera or the controls. Ocarina was technically impressive in its day, but the targeting system and camera control make playing it a total chore compared to Phantom Hourglass.

Anyway, put me in the 'this is the right direction for the franchise' camp, and let me order a big side of 'please, God, don't start remaking the old ones, there's no point.' The hub temple in Phantom Hourglass is better than the Deku temple -- less confusing, more challenging, more interactive. I want new content with familiar mechanics, not old content with refurbished graphics.

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

nen10dough — Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:26:36 GMT

I too am feeling a little bit of Zelda burnout. Even with PH's new control scheme it still doesn't feel "new" to me. I mean I've already played Windwaker once before, and while I'm very fond of that art style this new one does feel a little too derivative. In the past I would just shrug off the fact that every Zelda title reused the same formula it helped pioneer, but now I'm really starting to feel it. It's the same game time and time again, and while I like these sort of games, especially quality ones made by Nintendo, they can get a bit old after a while. I mean I feel like I've been married to this franchise for 20 years and I'm just not that into it anymore. I guess it doesn't get me as excited like it used to. I used to be able to go all night without even saving once, with no rupee or heart piece left behind. Nowadays I don't even bother with the side quests, and whenever I reach a dungeon it feels like a quick "in out" sort of affair. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I think I'm in love with a new puzzler by the name of Zack and Wiki. It just feels so new and refreshing that I can't seem to put my controller down.

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

shilelaghLaw — Mon, 29 Oct 2007 22:25:23 GMT

Since the Ocarina of Time, I have felt the Zelda franchise had become somewhat stagnant and predictable. Majora's Mask, Windwaker, and Twilight Princess all felt and played exactly like Ocarina. Completing Windwaker and Twilight Princess felt more like a chore than entertainment - I never completed Majora's Mask.

With the Phantom Hourglass, I have been pleasantly surprised. Despite resembling the Windwaker graphically, the new controls add life into what I would say has become a tired franchise. That's not to say there are no issues with the new control scheme (ie forward rolling), but overall it's another step forward for the series. In addition, puzzles have been given a new dimension as all of the DS's unique traits have been cleverly worked into the game. If Stephen Totilo's standard for a great Zelda game is it, "both makes you think that the game is clever and that you're clever," then my experience with the Phantom Hour Glass thus far makes me believe it is one of the best Zelda games.

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

goldjay_ — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 00:09:51 GMT

Zelda has become so banal over the many iterations of the game.The excuse that was given in the past was that each Link was a new person who dons the historic title of Hero. The largest crime in Phantom Hourglass is that it is a direct sequel with the same "Link" yet he some how loses all his equipment that he gained in WindWaker.

My favorite Zelda games have been game is a game that was not made by Nintendo. Okami may be the best Zelda game ever made. It follows all the the Zeldaisms without the constant retread of the gameplay. It is a Adventure game for Zelda fans who grew up playing Zelda games.

My favorite canon Zelda game is what I believe is the first Zelda game. The Minish Cap. It makes you understand the history of the series and I think has best dungeons and secrets. It felt fresh because it was the first time and it creates the legend of the Four Sword and the Hero. You are not saving the princess as much as you are saving Hyrule itself.

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

harrison25 — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 03:29:27 GMT

I must admit to being a zelda fanatic, but i have avoided the handheld iterations altogether.

If film has porn, then video games have handheld games... something people make because there is a market for it, because it's profitable, not because anyone is passionate about it... but that' s just my opinion. Of course, there's good and bad porn, but it's still porn.

After adoring Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask and Wind Waker, i have to admit to being disappointed by Twilight Princess.... The freedom that Wind Waker's ocean gave players is tossed out in favor of load times and zones... While every portion of Wind Waker could be explored, Twilight princess is loaded with artificially boundaries.. the player is constantly treated to a mountain in a distant background that can never be traveled to and clambered up. That freedom of being able to sail around a globe and visit every Island without loading really sold the WindWaker universe, and was a huge step forward for the Zelda franchise...

TP was also graphically the ugliest in the franchise, while other titles were gorgeous and the at the pinnacle during their time, TP went up against gears of war...

The ability to morph into a wolf was great, but Majora's Mask allowed you to do that back when doing that wasn't featured in every single game in existence...

I can't think of any ways that TP advanced or bettered the Zelda franchise... Ultimately it's easily the worst Zelda i've ever played...

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

Thomas Alan — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 04:24:56 GMT

You prefer spending two minutes sailing between each island in Wind Waker to a few seconds worth of loading? Never did understand why the "no load" games were any better because they let you press the up button while you were busy doing nothing of interest. Anyway, Ocarina of Time is the greatest game ever, Majora's Mask is an innovative and worthy follow-up. Nintendo needs to revamp the game before giving us another console version though. Twilight Princess was a competant game, but felt waaaaay stagnant. The game's gotten so formulaic that I only got stuck on one puzzle for more than a few minutes.

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

Meloche — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 05:27:16 GMT

Before Wii came out, Twilight Princess was easily my most anticipated game. From the initial reveal at E3 2004 right to release, I was psyched to get my hands on it. I wouldn't say I was disappointed with the end product, not by any means; while not on par with A Link to the Past or Ocarina of Time in my books, it's still a blast to play and I look forward to doing another run-through again when I have a little more time to spare. It's just after TP I basically stopped caring about new Zelda releases.

I loved The Wind Waker's style and story immensely, but I can't for the life of me get excited about playing Phantom Hourglass. As far as I'm concerned, Nintendo needs to give their key franchises a serious break. Don't make any more new Zelda games for any system until at least 2009, maybe later even. A 2D Metroid game for the DS would be fine, but apart from that they should give that franchise a rest for the next few years as well. For most of Nintendo's franchises, one iteration per generation is really quite enough. I'm not sure how I feel about Stephen's suggestion of constant 'updating' of classic games for the new hardware, but I don't think I'd be completely against an update for Wii [but make it the Master Quest version, please] so long as the core of the story, gameplay, and settings remained the same. Orchestrated music would be an amazing addition, though.

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

stephentotilo — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:45:43 GMT

SuperEffective...

You said: "Best Zelda ever: the story, when there, is light and easily skipped though charming and brief enough to convince you not to. It's also the first entry in the franchise that didn't find me fighting the camera or the controls"

Can I infer from that that you never played any of the earlier 2D Zeldas, which, naturally, had no camera issues? If so, then imagine having played about seven more Zeldas (for me, I've played 2D ones on the NES, SNES, GBC, GBA and GameCube).

If that's the case, thenperhaps you can see why we would have different reactions to this new one. It's my 12th time through an experience that is varying less and less.

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

joeboy101 — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:01:32 GMT

Harrison - I find your comparison of porn to handheld games crude, disturbing, and frighteningly accurate.

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

SuperEffective — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:50:24 GMT

Stephen: No, I'm (I assume) your age, and a long time Zelda fan. But I think the touch controls really revitalize the 2D/isometric viewpoint by eliminating some of the clunkiest combat elements of, say, the Minish Cap or even the understandably loved LttP. Tossing bombs feels *good* now: they go where I want them to. Aiming a grappling hook feels easier (again, because I'm not saddled with a D-pad), and there's something really great about drawing. The boomerang is 'new' again.

I guess I'm also swayed because this is the only stylus controlled action-y game that I've felt is elegantly designed. And in that sense, it totally kicks the ass of every D-pad derived Zelda game. I'm looking forward to the Ninja Gaiden on the DS, hoping for more of the same.

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

harrison25 — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:46:51 GMT

joeboy, it would do me wonders if you could explain why =)

i liken them to porn because they're usually fast, cheap, uninspiring, bereft of meaningful additions to a game franchise, and usually sell well because they make cheap birthday and Christmas presents...

I love playing old games, because the nostalgia makes them worthwhile, but handheld games are like playing decade old titles that were never classics, that you have no fond memories of, that never were amazing or special.

they're the bastard children of the video game world, and if you'd like to prove me wrong, please go right ahead and deprive me of the way i see the world! please do!

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

harrison25 — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:51:52 GMT

Super, 3d games aren't bad just because you suck at them =)

that's a losers way of excusing him or herself for lacking hand-eye coordination.

when video games first moved to 3d, it was a godsend for me...

If you had my skill with a joystick, you wouldn't be so grumpy about those annoying 3 dimensions.

Zelda had the best camera of any game of it's era, and that's the reason why the 'z targeting' system has been copied so many times...

it's still around... check out the over the shoulder camer in gears of war... all they did was add a right joystick for turning left and right.

Plenty of games have horrible camera management, zelda is not one of them, and that's the reason it frequently ranks #1 in top 100 video game of all time awards... it's that good.

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

tonycomley — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:11:25 GMT

I was also a Zelda virgin til Phantom Hourglass and I have to say i'd rather be buried under poo than play any more.

Yes the control is great (apart from rolling of course). As far as I can tell it's basically Animal Crossing with puzzles and swords minus the humour and characterization.

And this is the issue I have with PH and in fact most games... They're too lazy with things like character and plot (with a few brilliant exceptions). And so the problem with this game is not that it's derivative of other Zeldas but that it's derivative of every cod-fantasy sub-Tolkein unimaginative nonsense that you can think of.

The effect this has is that I don't CARE which dull, featureless island the *%!"`!! "Sun Key" is on because I know that when I find it i'll just have to sit through thirty speech bubbles of c*** written according to some old guys impression of what 8 year old Japanese schoolgirls find amusing.

It has it's moments (like a spun-out Link presenting his latest acquisition to the camera accompanied by a dizzy-fied ta-da theme). And the art direction is superb. But we need to demand better from our games. It's not enough to wait out for another Res, Monkey Island or Katamari Damacy, while companies continue to spend 80% of their budget on vertex shading and the coffee money on writing the plot.

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

joeboy101 — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:46:06 GMT

Harrison - Relax. What I meant was I found the analogy of handheld games to porn distrubing, but the truth or logic of that analogy is inescapable. Perhaps newer handheld games like God of War, Dracula X and what not might turn the tide, but who takes handheld games seriously? If the developers don't, why should the audience?

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

harrison25 — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:24:18 GMT

lol i am calm. you be calm. =)

gow:col actually looks pretty good... but it's still just a dumbed down version of gow =) i mean... handheld games can ever escape it... it's impossible =)

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

harrison25 — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:26:45 GMT

lol.... ooooohhh i thought you said inaccurate. =) hahaha

haha well you said 'harrison, i find your analogy to be frightening, disturbing' hahaah =) omg hhahha

re: MTV News' Stephen Totilo Vs. Level Up's N'Gai Croal on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Round 1--Fight!

SuperEffective — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:17:34 GMT

Tony: if you're looking for plot from a Zelda game, you're doing it wrong. Zelda games should be a vehicle for switch-hitting and block moving, not Final Fantasy-style character development. And you're not the only one: there are crazy people out there who think there's some kind of overall narrative to the series beyond 'Elf boy in green gets triforce, master sword'. There's no accounting for taste, I guess.