'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

saulmelissa — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:21:16 GMT

This is the BEST show that has been around in a long time. It is very well done and keeps you watching and wanting to see what happens next. They are not making a mockery out of anything in my opinion.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

leerk — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:40:41 GMT

I think Alston's comments and criticism of the LDS Church for opposing the portrayal of temple ceremonies on "Big Love" or misguided.

I think it is less the fact that it was shown, and more the fact of portraying something so sacred to the LDS faith in a possibly sacreligious way. I'll admit, I have not seen this episode and have only caught bits of the show over the years. But coming from the point of view of an active, faithful Latter-day Saint, I hate to see sacred parts of my religion portrayed in any way outside of the context, and edifice, in which they were meant to be portrayed. They are not meant for entertainment. Yet they are being used precisely for such a purpose by the producers of "Big Love". Their intent for using this ceremony is not quite clear, but it is likely they wanted to do something controversial to get more people to watch their show. Obviously they were successful in getting people's attention, and they have every right to do so. People have a right to portray our church as they wish, but it doesn't mean the Church should be criticized for standing up for it's beliefs, fighting back, and letting people know we disapprove of something we hold so sacred.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

Penelope Rae — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 22:25:07 GMT

The correct name of the Church in the article is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints not The Church of Latter-Day Saints. A small mistake but one that is important as it states who we are; followers of Jesus Christ.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

giglianaromicon — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 22:33:30 GMT

You know people have their beliefs, and their religion, but seriously folks....you have stories about this subject completely strewed around the media, details of that way of life, horrible stories of all the illegal things that are happening, and you want to bash a television show, that in no way bashes poligamy, it explains some of it. Clearly it is just a show, and why are these people even watching the show in the first place? Do I watch something that I know would offend me, no. Im an adult, turn the channel..this is America free speech press...etc...basically the point is get over it, and let well enough alone...its a tv show...seriously?

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

K from WA — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 22:37:13 GMT

Not mentioned is the fact that the Mormon Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not associated with the Reformed polygamist church and their practices. The fact that a sacred LDS ceremony was depicted by polygamist characters immediately misconstrues information. A polygamist would not be able to enter a Mormon temple at all.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

mlandon — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:47:14 GMT

You know, the incorrect designation of the church as "The Church of Latter-Day Saints" rather than "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints" is a big gaffe. You should try to get this fixed right away...and maybe try to let your tolerance extend to knowing who the heck you're talking about.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

stinkyteacher — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:59:41 GMT

As temple-worthy members of the LDS church, my husband and I were a little concerned about the depiction of something we consider sacred on T.V. However, we quickly came to the realization that 1) as the author said, many different religions have had things they consider sacred put on T.V., and often mocked (in the case of "South Park") - at least ours was treated with some degree of respect; 2) protest and boycotts wouldn't matter to a channel that has programming about "cathouses" and shows called "Real Sex." To them, any publicity would be good publicity.

I wondered what would happen when my non-LDS friends saw the show (many of them watch) and questioned me about the temple. Not one did; my worries were unfounded. While my ultimate choice would have been to not have it shown, I think the author made a point - that understanding is part of the key to respecting and accepting a religion. Perhaps in showing a dramatized version of things that we consider sacred (even if Barb wouldn't be allowed in the temple due to her personal choices) wasn't entirely bad - perhaps it will lead to more acceptance.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

eshuster — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:16:03 GMT

Please note that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints did not react strongly to the episode, releasing instead a very mild statement about how Church members are likely to be offended. The LDS Church has a long standing policy of not reacting strongly to these types of events. Consider the following:

* During the Mitt Romney election campaign for the presidency of the United States, commentator Lawrence O’Donnell hurled abuse at the Church in a television moment that became known among many Church members as “the O’Donnell rant.” Today, his statements are remembered only as a testament to intolerance and ignorance. They had no effect on the Church that can be measured.

* When the comedy writers for South Park produced a gross portrayal of Church history, individual Church members no doubt felt uncomfortable. But once again it inflicted no perceptible or lasting damage to a church that is growing by at least a quarter of a million new members every year.

* When an independent film company produced a grossly distorted version of the Mountain Meadows Massacre two years ago, the Church ignored it. Perhaps partly as a result of that refusal to engender the controversy that the producers hoped for, the movie flopped at the box office and lost millions.

* In recent months, some gay activists have barraged the media with accusations about “hateful” attitudes of Latter-day Saints in supporting Proposition 8 in California, which maintained the traditional definition of marriage. They even organized a protest march around the Salt Lake Temple. Again, the Church has refused to be goaded into a Mormons versus gays battle and has simply stated its position in tones that are reasonable and respectful. Meanwhile, missionary work and Church members in California remain as robust and vibrant as ever, and support for the Church has come from many unexpected quarters — including some former critics and other churches.

These things come and go, and the LDS Church is right not to react so strongly to it, exemplifying the model that Jesus Christ demonstrated to all of us during his public ministry.

Think of this another way however from a Church member perspective: A camera crew shows up at the home of a man named Bill. They tell him they would like to video him and his wife having sex. Bill of course refuses, saying what takes place between he and his wife is sacred and not meant to be shown to anyone. The camera crew leaves and rents a studio and does all they can to recreate Bill's bedroom, even hiring actors that resemble Bill and his wife. They then film a sex scene, with Bill's ex wife and his wife's ex husband on site to ensure the sex scenes are done as close to what they can remember as possible. The crew then posts the video on YouTube titled "Sex with Bill and His Wife."

Is sex with Bill and his wife a secret ceremony? No, it is sacred and something that need not be portrayed by others or seen by those who are not invited to do so in Bill's house. To crecreate such a scene, and say it is close to the real thing, is not only offensive, but it is an invasion of privacy and ethically questionable.

Millions of Latter-day Saints have experienced the temple ceremony and therefore it is hardly private, but it is sacred. The sacredness of the ceremony can be thought of as the "meat" of the gospel of Jesus Christ, as opposed to the milk - quoting the Apostle Paul. When seen without the proper educational and spiritual preparation the ceremony appears ridiculous, as God's thoughts are not out thoughts as the prophet Isaiah wrote. As such, Big Love made a mockery of the sacred ceremony. They didn't show Bill and his wife having sex, but they did invade Bill's privacy by recreating the scene and not clearly distinguishing that it wasn't the real thing.

Again, these things come and go and the LDS Church will do just fine. I am so glad to be a member of a Church that follows the precepts of Christ and reacts in humility to these types of events. God love you all.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

piack — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:20:17 GMT

I understand and appreciate the objections of those devout members of the faith and their concern for having a sacred and secret part of their religion presented on television. Sarah Ball has an excellent point about context with respect to the character of Barb, but she doesn't explain it enough. The point of this scene was to show the intense internal struggle that Barb has, and to communicate the extraordinary pain that she is enduring, trying to reconcile her love for her marriage, for her church and her faith. She loves the LDS Church, but disagrees with it on the subject of polygamy.

The ceremony itself is depicted beautifully and respectfully, from the perspective of a nonbeliever, and is in no way disrespectful. To those with open minds, it is just like watching any other religious (or non-religious) ceremony with which they are unfamiliar.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

Traveler33 — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:53:28 GMT

I am not a Mormon, but the ceremony depicted on the show did not seem all that odd to me - all religions have "odd" ceremonies, but they make sense to members - I know my church has them, too. But for the writer complaining about the show leaving out "Jesus Christ" from the name of the Mormon church: If you read the book of Mormon and study the church, you will realize that Mormons are not really Christians. They are Mormons. The emphasis on Jesus Christ was made by church leaders in an effort to make the religion more acceptable to the wider population of the world. I think it was fine just being called Mormons or LDS. I am a believer that all paths lead to God - whatever the religion.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

mlandon — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:32:53 GMT

Traveler33: Whether or not you feel that Mormons deserve to be called Christians, and regardless of how central you feel Jesus Christ is to the tenants of Mormon religion, the fact remains that the official name of the church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and it should be cited as such. To get the institution's name wrong is sloppy, misleading--essentially, it's poor journalism.

And, being a member of said church who attends weekly church meetings, temple ordinances, and regularly reads the Book of Mormon, Bible, and other LDS Church-related material, I can say that we talk an awful lot about Jesus Christ, study His life and teachings, conduct His sacrament in our weekly meetings, acknowledge and bear testimony of His divinity and role as Savior in virtually all of our lessons and meetings, and pray to God in His name whenever we pray, both publicly and privately. There are those who feel we don't have historical and theological claim to the designation "Christian." Regardless of that view, the fact that Jesus Christ is central to our belief and teachings is undeniable to anyone with thorough exposure to the LDS Church.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

flightoffancy — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:33:35 GMT

To Traveler33: Mormons are Christians. Jesus Christ being the cornerstone of the LDS church. As for the TV show: the character that was shown in the temple ceremony would never have been in the temple in the first place, and actually would not even be a member of the church. A small point, but an important one since it's a glaring inaccuracy that the show's creators and so-called experts should have caught. I would also point out to the author of this article that this is not a "Mormon Show" since polygamy isn't practiced in the Mormon church.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

Jbright9 — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:37:40 GMT

I am not a Morman but I did find the ceremony shown to be interesting and informative. There are a lot of strange rituals in many churches, they seem especially strange if you are not familiar with them. What I am most curious about that I have learned about from Big Love is the special underwear worn. I would like to know the purpose of it, what it really looks like and do my Morman friends really wear it daily. I recently went to a Catholic funeral where the priest came down the aisle with the burning incense ball. I have severe allergies and I could hardly breathe because of it. There is so much pagentry and rituals in Catholicism. I watch evangelicals on TV and they look hypnotized to me with their eyes closed and their extended waving arms. Each religion has its own way of doing things that are meaningful to their faithful.

Isn't it true that each of us believes our faith or lack of it to be the truth. When we can all agree that we are all searching for the truth, maybe we can learn to be more tolerant.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

hokiemet — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:02:47 GMT

Beginning in In Luke 8:16, Jesus says "No one lights a lamp and then covers it with a washtub or shoves it under the bed. No, you set it up on a lamp stand so those who enter the room can see their way. We're not keeping secrets; we're telling them." (Message translation)

This is one of the key points that separates true Christianity from those cults that seek to tie themselves to Christ to add legitimacy - THERE ARE NO SECRETS WITH CHRIST.

The traditional Christian rites in my church - communion, baptism, ordination, weddings, funerals - are OPEN TO ALL - no secrets...

The minute you encounter a group that tries to tell you that you're missing a SECRET rite of passage or SECRET bit of information, or complains in the media that one of their SECRETS is being revealed in a TV show, run the other way. They are out to deceive you.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

Sorahatch — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:04:18 GMT

It bothers me that the article lauds HBO for accuracy simply based on their self-serving statement that they were accurate, without further investigation on the part of the author. If they really wanted to portray the lifes of these people, they should have portrayed what goes on in the OTHER type of Mormon temple, where someone who is a member of the RLDS church would actually be.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

2sirgrant — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:08:01 GMT

The title of the article is :'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

This is the Church's official reaction:

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/the-publicity-dilemma

What do you think?

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

flightoffancy — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:18:44 GMT

To hokiemet: All the temple ordinances conducted in the Mormon church are founded upon the teachings of Jesus Christ and ARE open to all members of the church. There's a huge and fundamental difference between "secret" and "sacred". Sacred embraces respect and love for the teachings of Christ. The word 'secret; implies there is something to be ashamed of or to hide, and I don't know one member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints that is ashamed of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

hokiemet — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:29:31 GMT

To flightoffancy: Everything that goes on in my church is OPEN TO EVERYONE, both members and NON-members of the church - that's the difference.

The minute you're involved in a "church" that only shares certain things with "members" - you've involved yourself in a fallacy.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

krayolack — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:29:44 GMT

I was somewhat upset that they were showing a ritual that even as members we can not know about until we actually go through the ordinance. The ordinance is not talked about openly even within our religion. I would never support nor will I ever support anyone or anything that is willing to disrespect a sacred ordinance like that. I find it sad that this world is so selfish and willing to disrespect the sacred things of anyone or any religion. It's really a shame and shows what kind of people they are.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

izzzy — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:35:08 GMT

Why does a religion, any denomination need secret ceremonies or secrets of any kind?

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

KevinC1961 — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:35:19 GMT

I didn't realize the Mormons had a constitutional right to censor. Who knew?

Get over it.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

Grape — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:42:47 GMT

I am not a Mormon; let's get that out there first. I am, however, sick and tired of the faithless banding together to tear apart every religion out there. The fact is this country was founded by English refugees needing a place to worship in their own way. If you have no faith, fine, that too is your right as an American. But let’s have a little common courtesy and allow people to worship however they see fit. We don’t have to agree with it, we don’t have to participate in it, but I do think we should respect it. If they wish to keep things sacred, we should allow them to have that. If no one is getting hurt, if no laws are broken, why should we allow some Godless writer is Hollywood to show anything even remotely close to it? There should be a little more respect for the faithful and for religion in general. This country is going to hell on a speeding locomotive and Hollywood is the conductor and the engineer. It about time we become the brakeman and say “no more.”

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

wolfman777 — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:54:53 GMT

You who think Mormonism and Scientology are actually religions should read some history.

Mormonism was founded by a deluded farmer who said he found stone tablets in his field in New England, and got other goofballs to believe they came from God. Scientology was founded by a lunatic science fiction writer who began to believe his own expanded fiction writings and is based on the delusion that beings from outer space came here to enlighten us, then left. Both are bastions of the uneducated and/or secluded groups educated together. Check out the educations of Cruise, Travolta, other Scientologists. And Utah is basically Israel for Mormons.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

spatman — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:40:17 GMT

To KevinC1961: I think you should look up the definition of "censor" and try again. It's only censorship if they actually keep it from running. Otherwise it's just complaining, which they DO have a constitutional right to do. You seem to be one of those people who feels that "expressing an idea contrary to my own" is censorship. You get over it.

By your definition, if for example Campbell's soup made a public statement saying all {enter name of group you associate with here} are idiots and morons, you would still be obligated to keep your mouth shut and buy Campbell's soup or be guilty of censorship. By your definition, those gays calling for boycotts of of a theater group because one employee made public statements against Proposition 8 are guilty of censorship.

If Mormons are upset by what they feel is an insult to their religion and want to complain about it or even cancel their subscription to HBO that is their constitutional right. If they want to protest and demand that HBO not show the show that's their constitutional right. It's HBO's constitutional right to not listen to them if they so desire. If Mormons storm HBO's offices and interfere with the airing of the show THAT is not a constitutional right. They haven't done that.

YOU get over it.

Wolfman 777: I think you should check a dictionary as well. And any basic encyclopedia. Assuming you're not too uneducated or secluded to do so.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

ladyofargonne — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:53:10 GMT

I'm not ashamed of being Jewish but I sure would not want a bris (circumcision) televised.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

tlasenior — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:56:26 GMT

This is not simply about religion alone, but about tolerance. As you stated and I quote: "The issue with this position is the practical matter that in order for people to be tolerant of something, they have to understand what they are being tolerant of." So, following that reasoning, you should be able to use a *** word, such as "***"", to "enlighten" people on what the Blacks went through during the 40's and 60's, but you are to frightened to use even the ""N" word". So, how are the whites today to understand how to be tolerant of the blacks based on History??

Something to consider in your silly argument!

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

jlmatthews2628 — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:02:48 GMT

In response to wolfman777...take your own advice and do some broader research, rather than distilling the faith of 13 million (more of whom live outside the US than in it, much less in Utah) down to a contorted one-liner. Besides, why does that sentence sound anymore rediculous than a bearded Israelite splitting a sea in two and bringing some other stone tablets down from a mountain claiming them to be from God. Any religion sounds rediculous when you try to make it sound that way.

In response to KevinC1961...the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS doesn't claim the right to censorship. While a number of offended members of the church began flooding email forwards calling for a boycott of HBO/AOL/Time Warner, this was actually the Church's response: http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/the-publicity-dilemma

And finally to the author...while you're discussing tolerance, accurate representation, and such, it would be nice if you didn't repeatedly and conveniently exclude "Jesus Christ" from the name of the church. It's the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, not the Church of Latter-Day Saints.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

angel121467 — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:26:06 GMT

I am so sick of the Mormon church and Catholic church telling everyone how to live.It is no ones business.I Don't have a problem with polygamy as long as the women going in are of age(18) and choose to live like that. If you think about it its no different than a man going out and having several mistresses. This way the women know of each other and know they are not going to get any STDS

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

yaya1234 — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:27:08 GMT

To the author of this article, you brought up some good points, but you failed to point out that the "qualified adviser" you refer to in this statement: "they worked with a qualified adviser who was on the set the entire time" is an ex-mormon (left the church 15 years ago) and has very hard feelings towards the church.

Hmmmmmmm.... Now this is my opinion, but I would not call that a qualified adviser at all. That's like making the claim you have a doctor in the house, when in actuality you have a bitter, med-school drop-out.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

MaxPower2103 — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:46:11 GMT

this issue isn't about secrecy as the article pointed out. It is about sacredness, and no matter how "accurate" the depection was on Big Love it is still very insulting to people of faith. Jesus cast the money changers out of the temple not because they were seing the secrets, but because the temple is a sacred place, not something to be exploited for money. Big love isn't a serious show doing a documentary on temples, it is a show exploiting Mormonism, confusing poeple about polygamy, (which Mormons do not practice) and now drawing on the publicity it knew it would receive by spitting in the face of sacred ceremonies, all to make a buck. Just as people in Jesus' day, HBO is exploiting the sacred to try to make more money.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

pmm326 — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:51:46 GMT

To all the advid readers of this article, in this country we are given the ability to choose what ever religion fits our needs. There are many denominations and all have some type of idosyncracy ritual that as the author has said may make your head turn (paraphrasing) but you have the power not to belong to that religion or denomination.

I watch the show because it is entertaining and a cultural learning experience. Yes it is done up in a hollywood way, but the characters whom the great cast of actors play do a wonderful job of playing roles that they themselves may or may not believe in. To put down the show or any type of religion makes you who are complaining a bigot, a racist and possibly even a narcist. To some these may be big words, but like the religons you degrade because you do not understand or want to know what or why they believe the way do. So before you degrade anyones religion or a show such as Big Love take the time and think about your own life. Do you want someone degrading your own beliefs or the way you live your life, I don't think you would. To those who do believe in faith the bible says Jesus said to those that were going to stone Mary Magadelene for her transgressions he who is without sin may be the first cast a stone at her. So all of you who are without faults may cast a doubt on this show or anyone who portrays a belief that may or may not be perfect, because from what I see and read in these comments nobody is without flaws especially myself.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

Sammy28 — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:02:08 GMT

Martha Beck has written an amazingly great book... Leaving the Saints.

I first picked it up from the library but have since bought the book as it is one I lend quite often. There are those (guess who they are) who say it is full of deception. Don't think so.

It's fascinating, sad, inspiring and I'm sure... true.

There are some common sense things that should send up red flags with your religion:

Your religion has secret anything

Your religion teaches it is the ONLY right way

Your religion KNOWS for sure what happens in the afterlife

Your religion censors ANY reading material

Your religion is fear based

Your religion does not protect children at the cost of everything else

Just a few of my thoughts.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

LaVarr — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:19:53 GMT

Temples of the Lord have, from the earliest recorded biblical references, included areas and rites considered sacred and private. From the portable tabernacle of the Israelites in the wilderness to the Temple of Solomon and beyond, temples have included places (court of the Gentiles) where anyone could enter, and increasingly private and sacred places culminating with the Holy of Holies, where very few were allowed to enter and participate in sacred rites. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a church of "restoration". That is to say, we assert that the priesthood authority to administer the rites of the temple and to administer Christ's church was lost from the earth with the death of the apostles, and that this authority was restored to Joseph Smith. Latter-day temples are created after the pattern of temples as described in the bible, including the giant laver resting on twelve oxen where washing (baptism ordinances) are administered. Many important differences exist between early temple rites and latter day rites. For instance, in biblical days, great importance was placed on the blood offerings of animals. In latter days, the Lord has declared that due to the completion of Christ's atonement (the sacrifice of the Lamb of God), such offerings are no longer acceptable. We are also grateful that the Lord has opened the way for people of all races and of both sexes to join in the blessings of the temple.

It is painful to see our sacred rites exploited for common entertainment. God bless you all as you seek your own path to the divine--the Holy of Holies.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

hokiemet — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:21:10 GMT

To MaxPower2103 - You can try to hide behind "sacred" all you want. It does not change the fact that Mormon temple rites, while sacred to you, are also closely guarded SECRETS.

It takes very little arsenic to poison an otherwise healthy glass of water. This is what Mormonism has done through its twisted version of Christianity. It mixes a lot of the truth Jesus taught with the poison Joseph Smith and his followers spread. The result is a concoction that is DEADLY.

Run from this cult and seek a personal relationship with Jesus Christ - He is the way, truth, and life. The truth shall make you free - NO SECRETS

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

hokiemet — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:24:24 GMT

To LaVarr - Evidently you missed the point God made through Jesus Christ when the temple veil that guarded the Holy of Holies was ripped from top to bottom during the crucifixion.

Thanks to the sacrificial death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, we are no longer separated from God by our own sin. There is a path to forgiveness through believing in Him. NO SECRET

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

StanMan — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:11:23 GMT

Sarah,

I'm a practicing member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and while I have seen a few episodes of Big Love, I haven't yet seen this one. So my comments below are qualified accordingly.

First, I gauged from the article that the author attempted to present her proposition that "in order for people to be tolerant of something, they have to understand what they are being tolerant of" in a sensitive and balanced way. And for the most part, I think sheachieved that. I accept that it is very difficult for non-Mormons to fully accept our faith when they are not permitted to personally observe it in all of its representations.

That said, I hope those of you who are not members of the LDS Church can understand how many members truly feel violated by most of the various media's attempts to dissect some piece of the Church, or their take on Church history, and present it as somehow being accurate and authoritative portrayal. For example, in the episodes that I have watched, I haven't seen any of the Big Love characters reading scripture, holding personal or family prayer, paying tithing or fast offerings, engaging in monthly visits and rendering service to members and non-members alike, providing volunteer service at Church Canneries and Bishop's Storehouses, performing genealogical searches and doing other family history work, accepting volunteer positions in the Church such as teaching Sunday School every week or leading Church youth activities on weekday evenings and weekends, or parents helping their children attend Seminary during their high school years or prepare to serve as Church missionaries. I could list dozens of other singular "elements" of what collectively combine into the full Mormon experience, but I hope you get my point -- Big Love episodes, CNN reports, Hollywood movies and Newsweek articles, and everything in between, that attempt to portray and, often, sensationalize an element of the Church are inherently incomplete and cannot possibly place themselves in the full context of the Church's complex backdrop. Accordingly, even disregarding all the secular (read: sexual) sensationalism that they inevitably inject, they are inaccurate and therefore misrepresentative of the true Mormon experience.

Permit me to try to make this point by way of analogy: the LDS Church, like most large organizations, is best assessed as a collection of all of its constituent elements taken together as they collectively come together as a whole. As such, it could be easily compared to a large jigsaw puzzle that looks like so much randomness when its box is first opened. Its full beauty, or lack thereof, can only be accurately determined once all of the pieces are assembled where they properly fit and then looked at as the complete whole that those pieces have become. In my view, when the producers of Big Love assert as a defence of the factual accuracy of the temple ceremony episode that "they worked with a qualified adviser who was on the set the entire time", that is tantamount to me saying that I worked with the highest quality color photocopier when I pulled one of the 5000 pieces of the puzzle out of the box and made a copy that I then gave to you as my portrayal of the puzzle. Even if it was the most colorful piece of the puzzle (and for most active members of the Church the temple ceremony would be just that), it's only one piece, and you're only fooling yourself if you decide that the one piece you have seen gives you a sound basis on which to form an accurate view of what the total puzzle must look like.

I know this is a long post, and if you have taken the time to the end, thank you.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

MaxPower2103 — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:57:08 GMT

this issue isn't about secrecy as the article pointed out. It is about sacredness, the ceremonies of mormon temples have been available in books for a long time, and now more recently widely available on the internet. Mormons themselves don't discuss these ceremonies because they are sacred, even though we know that people can seek this out, we don't discuss it out of respect for its sacred nature. This show is pure profanity. The origin of the word profane is profanus, meaning outside the temple. Taking something that is sacred in one context and moving it out of that context, thus profaning the sacred.

And no matter how "accurate" the depection was on Big Love it is still very insulting to people of faith. Jesus cast the money changers out of the temple not because they were seing the secrets, but because the temple is a sacred place, not something to be exploited for money. Big love isn't a serious show doing a documentary on temples, it is a show exploiting Mormonism, confusing poeple about polygamy, (which Mormons do not practice) and now drawing on the publicity it knew it would receive by spitting in the face of sacred ceremonies, all to make a buck. Just as people in Jesus' day, HBO is exploiting the sacred to try to make more money.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

Shelley37860 — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 03:35:29 GMT

I have an easy solution for everyone. It's called the OFF button on your TV remote.

I am Southern and Catholic and live in a town with many Pentecostal churches that lay on hands and speak in tongues. We also have a Snake Handling church. This is an important ritual of their church. Although it is DEFINITELY NOT something I would ever participate in, I would never pass judgement on another person's religious practices or beliefs. It is disrespectful and unwarranted. If you don't like a church's belief's, don't attend that church. In the case of LDS members and Big Love, turn off the TV. Many movies have been made about Catholics, good and bad, (Passion of the Christ, Da Vinci Code, Lord of the Rings Trilogy, Chronicles of Narnia, etc...) yet Catholics don't grouse about them. LDS members don't need to be so sensitive.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

IdahoJosh — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 15:41:19 GMT

Sarah Ball writes in this article, "If there are objections about the accuracy of the temple scene in 'Big Love,' that would be a debate worth having. " Fine. Let's have that debate. There are HUGE inaccuracies here. Mainly, Mormons banned the practice of polygamy more than 100 years ago and polygamous marriage ceremonies would not be allowed in a Mormon temple. HBO, by showing a polygamous marriage ceremony in a Mormon temple, presents a gross inaccuracy and furthers the misguided and all too common belief that mainstream Mormonism (the fourth largest church in America) practices polygamy.

HBO has created characters who couldn't possibly be accepted in modern-day Mormonism and is saying to the world, "Look - Mormons!" This is what I object to -- the gross inaccuracy and misrepresentation, the presentation of polygamist off-shoots as mainstream Mormons.

Sarah Ball has clearly bought into the idea that the characters on Big Love are Mormons. They're not. They don't accept or live Mormon theology. By practicing polygamy, they would be excommunicated from a Mormon church. HBO shouldn't show them in a Mormon temple because these characters wouldn't be allowed in one.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

iamsrf — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:01:41 GMT

IdahoJosh,

Obviously you did not watch this episode and you do not watch this show. The ceremony was a marriage ceremony; it was the rites and procedure (ceremony) to enter the inner temple. It was NOT a polygamous marriage ceremony or any marriage ceremony.

I would just like anyone who decides to post an apoinion to get educated on the subject before they post misinformation. If you want your voice heard, educate yourself and then make an intelligent statement, not falsehoods.

BTW, the rites were not much different than those performed in Freemasonry.As a Freemason, I found that aspect quite peculiar.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

IdahoJosh — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 23:38:12 GMT

iamsrf,

True, I did not see the episode, and I apologize if the information I received about it was inaccurate. I was going on what I'd been told about the episode, and as I don't subscribe to HBO, I took the news I got at face value. My bad.

Having said this, my original point is still valid. Polygamous characters would never be allowed in a Mormon temple, regardless of the ceremony. Mormons consider polygamy an offense worthy of excommunication, so for HBO to show polygamists doing anything in a Mormon temple is a gross inaccuracy (a far greater inaccuracy, I think, than my confusing which Mormon ceremony they showed). Their inaccuracy only furthers the erroneous belief that Mormons are polygamists.

Finally, I hope your dedication to education and accurate information extends beyond these comments and to the makers of Big Love. I hope you're just as bothered by their misrepresentation of Mormons as you are my misrepresentation of the recent episode.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

whycantifly — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 03:38:55 GMT

As iamsrf already said, please watch the show before posting an opinion as if you had done so, you would know the circumstances behind a polygamous character being in a Mormon temple. It was clear in the episode that Mormons are not polygamists and that polygamy is not tolerated by the Mormon church.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

BIGLUVLUVER — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:39:12 GMT

EVERYBODY SEEMS TO BE MISSING THE POINT. FIRST, IT'S A TV SHOW.... SECONDLY. BILL'S FAMILY IS NOT EXCEPTED ANYWHERE. NOT THE COMPOUND, NOR THE CHURCH. THEY'RE KIND OF AN ISLAND TO THEM SELVES. SOMEONE MADE A COMMENT THAT THEY DON'T PRAY OR FOLLOE ANY RELIGIOUS CUSTOMS. THEY ALWAYS PRAY, BILL OFTEN GOES OFF ALONE TO PRAY FOR GUIDANCE. THEY SEEM TO GET BAPTISED PRETTY OFTEN ( I DON'T REALLY GET THAT). THE WHOLE PREMISE OF THE SHOW IS TRYING TO BALANCE IN THE MIDDLE OF TWO WORLDS, BUT THEY'RE NOT REALLY EXCEPTED BY EITHER. THE CHURCH DENOUNCES POLYGOMY. THEY WERE RAISED THAT WAY. BUT YET, THEY KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT IT IS NOT RIGHT. FOR EXAMPLE "THE JOY BOOK". FORCING YOUNG GIRLS TO MARRY AGAINST THEIR WILL. BUT YET, THEY THEY FEEL POLYGOMY IS NOT RELIGOUSLY WRONG. IF ACCEPTABLE TO ALL PARTIES. I'VE HEARD OF MUCH STRANGER RELIGIONS! THE PART ABOUT THE TEMPLE, I HAD KNOW IDEA ABOUT ANY OF THAT IN THE MORMON CHURCH, BUT AS AN OUTSIDER, IT DIDN'T CAST ANY KIND OF BAD LIGHT ON THE CHURCH. IT LOOKED BEAUTIFUL. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'S RITUALS, KINDA FREAK ME OUT! I LOVE THE CHARACTERS IN BIG LOVE. THEY'RE VERY HUMAN. SOMETIMES WONDERFUL, SOMETIMES PRETTY MESSED UP. JUST LIKE ALL OF US.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

zaksgrandma — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:08:25 GMT

why all the fuss over this cults rites and what they beleive in?

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

Travelin — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:27:53 GMT

The Mormon church doesn't want you to know how weird they are. The "secrets" Big Love shows only make them look weirder. I lived in Utah and was amazed the way the church has COMPLETE control of their members. Example: Many years ago a Utah Horseman Association was trying to get Para-Mutual horse wagering. It was a very popular bill and had lots of support. All states that border Utah have this already and the horsemen were trying to save money by not traveling to Idaho to race and make money off their horses. Also it was and still is a drain on Utah as all money is earned and probably spent outside of Utah. All it took was one statement from the Mormon church that Gambling was bad in any form. The next Sunday nearly all services made mention of this and the law failed. The major tenant in Religion and the Bible is the importance of Freewill. There is no freewill in Utah. The Mormons make sure of that.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

susan902 — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:26:10 GMT

Shelley37860- You said," Many movies have been made about Catholics, good and bad, (Passion of the Christ, Da Vinci Code, Lord of the Rings Trilogy, Chronicles of Narnia, etc...) yet Catholics don't grouse about them. " Where were you when the Catholics couldn't stop whining about Passion of the Christ, the DaVinci Code, and now Angels and Demons???? All the publicity actually made the first two big money and I'm sure the same will happen with Angels and Demons. Same thing with The Golden Compass. It wasn't a particularly good moive but I wanted to see it just to see what the fuss was about. I do not belong to the Mormon church and I'm not defending it but the Catholics practice some very strange habits too.

If you watch Big Love you should be doing for entertainment. The actors are fantastic and it is a very good show. I hope to see many more seasons. Jeanne Tripplehorn did a wonderful job in the finale. I see an Emmy in her future.

re: 'Big Love' Gets Unwarranted Criticism From Mormon Church

mollymormon — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 22:28:48 GMT

I belong to church of jesus christ of latter day saints, and I am here to tell you that it is not unwarrented. What is so bad about wanting to keep a sacred ( not just ceremony) , but ordinance sacred. We as members of the church don't even know what exactly goes on until we are in a point in our lives we can get our ordinances done, but the whole world or all who big love should see what goes on. That is horrible!! I have not seen the show, but as I understand it is about a polygamist family who are practicing mormons. They should not have even been in a temple because polygamy is no longer practiced, and those that do are excumunicated. It is appalling to know that this has taken place. We who have been in the temple hold the experience sacred and are bound by a covenant to never devulge anything that we have learned out side the temple. So those of the writers and creators of this show you know as well as we do what is coming after this life. You made sacred covenants and now you have denied it. I hope you are willing to live with the consequences.