The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

jediiorio — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:48:59 GMT

You missed good old Limbaugh! He's always awesome for a laugh or two. Shockingly he was not into Obama's speech. He actually criticized it for being too middle of the road and boring and for being too socialist. I'm not really sure how that is possible, but I guess Rush has got better drugs then me.

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

clhuizenga — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:02:40 GMT

Sounds to me like the writer of newsweek had more "hate" in her comments than any of those evil conservatives.

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

jediiorio — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:24:07 GMT

Clhuizenga: Actually, if you take the time to read the article (unless perhaps you go by Dubya's one paragraph rule) you would notice that the writer gave a pretty fair range of comments from conservatives. Her tone was mocking, but not hateful and not solely directed at conservatives. Plus if you were to do even a preliminary google search you would find that she could easily have simply copy/pasted a bunch of idiotic and extremely hateful bloggers' comments had she wanted to. The article makes the commentators mentioned look like rational, even a bit likeable humans (something they fail to do for themselves on a regular basis).

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

flashypaws — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:30:56 GMT

neoconservatives are irrelevent. nobody cares what they say, or what they think.

their ideas have failed spectacularly, and their ideology has been discredited.

the country is ready for pragmatic, intelligent solutions to our problems, not fear mongering and devisiveness.

all we can do is pray for the neocons. and pat them gently, like kittens.

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

virtualmonk — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:49:38 GMT

For eight years, the Left trashed Bush and his Administration --- almost always under the guise of Howard Zinn's bumper sticker declaration "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." --- and IMHO more than a few crossed the line and warranted being labeled "Bush haters".

Now, here we are, barely a day into the Obama Administration, and his supporters on the Left are attempting to shout down those making critical comments regarding his Inaugural Address as "haters".

Whatever happened to "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism", or does that only apply to those on the Left?

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

Frito1 — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:11:43 GMT

Earth to Katie...It would be literally impossible to exceed the amount of Hate dispensed on President Bush the last 8 years by you and your friends on the tolerant open minded Left. I hope President Obama succeeds but one of the positive developments of this day is that 3/4ths of the Left's vocabulary when it comes to discussing Politics will be retired...such as:

Halliburton is Bad

No Blood for Oil

Bush's Fault or Bush Sucks (take your pick)

Sarah Palin is Dumb

Dick Cheney's mean

Mission NOT Accomplished

I think all of those talking points will be replaced over the next 4 years with "yeah but look at the mess he was left with!"

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

zachgarber — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:33:41 GMT

Dear Katie:

As has been mentioned in other posts, you must answer the question: Can one criticize our new President without it being labeled hate instantly? If the answer is yes, then we can have a discussion. If the answer is now --which is what you imply by how you have framed the issue-- then there is no discussion. Certainly one's criticism of any President can be outright hateful, or have glints of hate, or contain no hate at all. But how you have framed the issue --at Newsweek, no less, which claims to be fair or middle of the road, and does not label itself as liberal or conservative-- you have set-up criticism as hate. The other pitfall you open yourself to is the inabaility of being taken seriously when actual hate raises its head.

The only thing you have done successfully here is to reinforce the idea that the MSM is left-leaning at best, and a current water-carry for President Obama at worst.

Want some unbiased research on news bias? Pew put out its analysis of news coverage of the 2008 Presidential campaign (http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1001/campaign-media) While Pew's own executive summary states that FOX and MSNBC were "mirror images" of each other, Pew's own numbers show that NOT to be the case. FOX News (not O'Reilly or the other opinion shows, only the news, same as for MCNBC) was the most balanced of any of the 40+ news outlets analyzed. pew ofeered no break-out numbers for Newsweek (which featured Obama on it's cover 12 times in 2008 before election day; Time beat them with 14)

Here are the numbers from Pew:

Overall Coverage of the 40+ news outlets from Sept. 8 to Oct. 16;

McCain

Positive (14%)

Neutral (29%)

Negative (57%)

Obama

Positive (36%)

Neutral (35%)

Negative (29%)

FOX

McCain

Positive (22%)

Neutral (38%)

Negative (40%)

Obama Positive (25%)

Neutral (35%)

Negative (40%)

Note FOX had more positive coverage for Obama than McCain, and the same amount of negative stories for both. The only way to read FOX as more right than the other networks is to use the average of the other network's unbalanced coverage as a base line.

So, Newsweek, keep-up the tone you have established as a charter member of the MSM: it's what people expect.

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

zachgarber — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:35:33 GMT

Dear Katie:

The only thing you have done successfully here is to reinforce the idea that the MSM is left-leaning at best, and a current water-carry for President Obama at worst.

Here are the numbers from Pew:

Overall Coverage of the 40+ news outlets from Sept. 8 to Oct. 16;

McCain

Positive (14%)

Neutral (29%)

Negative (57%)

Obama

Positive (36%)

Neutral (35%)

Negative (29%)

FOX

McCain

Positive (22%)

Neutral (38%)

Negative (40%)

Obama Positive (25%)

Neutral (35%)

Negative (40%)

So, Newsweek, keep-up the tone you have established as a charter member of the MSM: it's what people expect.

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

zachgarber — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:49:15 GMT

Actuula jediiorio, you couldn't be more wrong. You wrote:

"if you take the time to read the article (unless perhaps you go by Dubya's one paragraph rule) you would notice that the writer gave a pretty fair range of comments from conservatives. Her tone was mocking, but not hateful and not solely directed at conservatives."

Well, here is how Katie Paul's "story" outlines her approach. From the middel of the first paragraph to the first few sentences of the 2nd:

"But enough with the cheering already, D.C. It's been hours. Time for a new take. We want to know what conservatives think of the speech. Out, damn hope! Bring on the haters!

2nd Parargraph "In that spirit, here's a roundup of conservative bloggers' reactions to the speech. Brace yourself: even some of them are (gasp!) cheering, too."

So she says bring on the haters and then in the very next sentence offers examples from the conservative bloggers --not all nloggers, conservative bloggers-- which means that the she sees convervative bloggers criticizing Obama as haters. If you don't see it that way you are either a defense lawyer or on the college deabte team; i.e., you're trying to argure your way out of the bold reality before you.

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

JOHNLM — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:04:08 GMT

Whaever happened to "dissent is patriotic? That didn't last very long. Now dissent is hate speech.

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

jediiorio — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:37:11 GMT

Wow, as usual conservatives are missing the point or simply changing facts to fit with their own skewed mindset. The tone of the article is mocking, Katie's use of the word "haters" is more a joke on the liberal media you all decry than an indictment against the bloggers she cites. After all, almost every blogger here has positive things to say about Obama's speech (and in fact the general tone seems hopeful). The contrast of the word "haters" with the actual context of these particular conservatives viewpoints is what makes the article funny. Oh, right, I forgot you guys all had your humor chips removed by order of Dick "my name is so fitting" Cheney.

If I'm not mistaken aren't the same people who are now crying that we should be able to criticize the president all we want the same people who spent the last seven years coating themselves with the blood of everyone who died in 9/11 and yelling that anyone who criticized the Bush administration was helping the terrorists?

Also, Sparkly (et al), criticizing the president is not hate speech as long as your criticisms don't veer into the "I hate black people, I hate mixed races, etc" territory. Anyone who runs for political office (black, white, asian. hispanic, etc) is not only opening themselves to criticism, but should be inviting it as a healthy part of the democratic process (and considering the new administration plans to have a portion of the whitehouse.gov website dedicated to allowing posters to discuss policy issues it certainly seems like Obama is). Obviously honest and knowledgeable criticism of policy is the best way to go, but if you think Obama sucks because he's a pinko commie and you want to call him a stupid face or attack his personality or anything like that while it might be less useful it's still your right. Just don't go around using the "N word" or basing your critique on his particular racial background and it's not hate speech. Also, Sparkly, calling someone you've never met or interacted with a bitch and telling them to go f**** themselves might not be hate speech either, but it does make you look like a moron. You stay classy, Sparkly.

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

joebloe — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:43:47 GMT

Jay Nordlinger responds to your vapidity thusly:

Like many others, I had some notes yesterday on the inaugural address. And, at Newsweek, a writer named Katie Paul took notice of those notes (along with others). She said that I had “ranted” about the speech’s “indirect slights to Bush.” She did not provide a link to those “rantings”: They are here.

Of course, she is under no obligation to provide such a link. It’s just that, not to do so is a little . . . unsporting, let’s say. And some of her readers might have liked the chance to evaluate for themselves.

(Incidentally, why is it that those of us who are conservative are pretty much confined to conservative outlets -- outlets that have a forthright ideological label -- while those who lean left are free to work at big, establishment, “mainstream” outlets such as Newsweek? But that is an old, tiring -- and tiresome -- question.)

A friend asked me yesterday what I thought of the speech -- must not be a regular Corner reader! -- and I said that I’d found it graceless and offensive, certainly in parts. He said, “You mean the parts about hope and virtue?” Funnily enough, that is not what I meant.

I meant the repeated digs at Bush, his team, and those of us who supported that administration. Obama said, We’re going to stop sacrificing our ideals on the altar of security. We’re going to stop ignoring science, or “the science,” as people say. At long last, we’re going to lead the world in pursuit of peace and dignity. At long last, we’re going to stop ignoring the suffering outside our own borders.

And so on. This was the most absurd and clueless stuff -- as though the speaker had been asleep for the last many years.

I received a lot of mail on this subject, and wanted to share one letter with you, because it speaks for many:

Jay,

I am relieved that someone felt as insulted and disappointed by that speech as I did. On election night, my wife and I were deeply moved by the beauty, grace, and class of Obama’s words. We voted for McCain -- but we were optimistic after that night.

But all of that goodwill was ruined in a matter of minutes today. I was insulted by Obama’s cheap, unfair shots at President Bush. It was as though he gave a standard stump speech -- a speech for October 20, rather than January 20. Mostly, my wife and I were just saddened, our high hopes dashed.

Bush is often accused of “squandering goodwill” after September 11, but at least he was being forceful with our enemies. What was Obama doing?

So very, very disappointing.

Speaking quite personally, I have never been an Obama-hater. I have never been much of an Obama disliker! He has never aroused the same antipathy in me that Al Gore, for example, has (or John Kerry). And the reason is: He has never displayed all that much antipathy himself. He does not seem to harbor much hate in him.

But I found myself quite disliking Obama yesterday, and this had little to do with politics and policies. I thought that many of his words were distinctly inappropriate for an inaugural address -- anybody’s.

One more thing: At the top of her article yesterday, Newsweek’s Paul said, “. . . enough with the cheering already, D.C. It’s been hours. Time for a new take. We want to know what conservatives think of the speech. Out, damn hope! Bring on the haters!”

Actually, we are not without hope, and we are not haters -- certainly I am not. It’s just that, now and then, we’ll have critical words to say about the One. We will dissent from the Leader and the Party.

And dissent is the highest form of patriotism -- right, Katie? Or is that much-loved bumper sticker of the last eight years wrong?

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

Mariana S — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:48:21 GMT

Ms Paul, how old are you, 14? "Let's check in with the haters?" Gosh, that wasn't projecting or hateful at all, was it? Incredibly immature writing from someone given a rather cushy job. Why don't you do "something for Obama" and take your position and your job as an "ethical unbiased journalist" seriously?

I write this as a center-right person who wants very much to give Obama a chance and keep an open mind, but I have to say the excesses of your profession - the gushing over Obama and the nastiness toward anyone else - makes it difficult not to react negatively. If you are so "inspired" by Obama's "post partisanship" then why don't you people in the press try to be a little "post partisan" yourselves, and stop wiping your feet on the loyal opposition (who mostly have been bending over backwards to be even-handed about Obama since the election) or projecting your insecure and childish hatred on to them?

You were very unfair to Mr. Nordlinger, btw, who is entitled to his opinion, and it was not at all hateful, but simply upset by a speech that others were free to love or hate. This IS still America, is it not? We are ALL still entitled to our opinions, are we not? Or, now that President Obama is installed, must we all fall into lockstep with you or be labeled as "haters"?

I hope Obama is up to this job, and I pray for him, but honestly, you people in the press are making it more difficult, not less, for me to trust him and this weird army of pledging sycophants. You all told me that dissent is the highest form of patriotism - you said it for 8 years - now, you seem to take offense when someone dissents. So, did you all mean it, or are you just a bunch of immature, unthinking hypocrites, ready to stomp on or shout down free speech, if it does not agree with you?

You sound very young. If you are, this is not a very auspicious beginnning to your career. If you are not young, then you're just pathetic.

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

Mariana S — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:52:06 GMT

And by the way, child, if you're going to accuse Nordlinger of "ranting" you should at least be fair and link to his post. Unless, of course, you're so insecure that you cannot do it.

And Mr. Jediiorio - methinks you doth protest too much.

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

jediiorio — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:06:41 GMT

Mariana: It's Ms. thanks. And I would just point out that it's awfully neat that you all decided that the best way to prove Katie Paul was an unfair, immature, liberal meanie was to attack her personally in the comments section. Only one person actually disputed any part of the actual article choosing instead to go the normal "I'm not a hater, you are. Ne Ne Ne Ne No Nah" route. I guess it's only "mature" when you do it. Please continue to go on and on about how conservatives in this country are so unfairly treated, it's awesome to still be able to laugh at you guys now that the running joke that was Jr. is out of office. After reading the blogger comments above I was a little afraid conservatives were growing up and out of their crybaby, self righteous teenager phase.

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

Mariana S — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:29:47 GMT

Yes, Jediiorio, you must be right.

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

Mariana S — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:31:07 GMT

Yes, Jediiorio, you must be right. How awful of me to expect more from a high-paid member of the mainstream press than, "let's see what the haters are saying."

We should all lower our expectations, I see.

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

jediiorio — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:37:39 GMT

Mariana: I didn't realize you had standards at all considering the garbage you guys read, listen to, worship and vote for.

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

rioguy — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:45:10 GMT

Joeblow;

President Obama simply repeated some of the same things that your candidate John McCain said about GWB all throughout the campaign. It was true when McCain said it and it was true when President Obama said it on Tuesday. And Mariana S when a pundit says outright that he hopes Obama fails if he's not a Hater I don't know who is. Yes the lingo might be a little to hip for a political blog and its definitely too hip for you but the term definitely fits.

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

CRob2000 — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:23:49 GMT

Conservatives are shuttering at the thought that President Obama could become one of America's greatest presidents. Through the reign of King Bush and the general decline of America's prosperity and stature, we've seen that Conservatives will not acknowledge, much less fix. our nation's real problems. President Obama, however, can deliver real solutions - a Conservative's worst nightmare!

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

DragonScorpion — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 12:35:28 GMT

~"Barack Obama gave a speech from the middle. He once again is communicating that he intends to govern from the middle and not from the wing," ~ Mitt Romney

Mitt has it exactly right. That's why a lot of us voted for Mr. Obama in the primary and the general election! While right-wing partisans were branding him a radical, left-wing socialist, sensible folks knew that his approach to government is actually a sensible one. I've known for some time now that Mr. Obama is far more pragmatic than both ideologues right & left want to believe.

If conservatives believe that President Obama is governing from the middle, I say Amen. Good to see they've finally come to their senses and joined ranks with we moderates...

As for the naysayers, I can't blame them, I suppose. In order for their scare tactics and cynical ideologies to be successful government has to be corrupt, divisive, ineffective, incompetent. Their worst nightmare is a government that actually benefits people & society...

re: The Speech: Conservatives Weigh In

pattypatty — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:41:46 GMT

This was a darn good speech. "Pick up yourself up, Dust yourself off and start all over again." What is it not made clear that some people can't understand. This is a Warning speech: If we don't adhere to what he's talking about, we will fall. The party is over. I loved that "qlenched fist" part in his speech. He wants peace, jobs, homes, Gaza strip in peace. He didn't cover like would have because we really don't know where we are. He will get us there. We must stop worrying about speeches and watch how he works with his people