McCain's Tricky Dance

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

revhank — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:29:03 GMT

I would think that Senator McCain's handlers know he's going to have to pander to the religious right to move ahead and they will begin to mix in the right phrases as needed. The trick will be to keep him on the right message for the audience he's addressing. If he can gain enough evanglical support to get elected, then he can forget about them, a la Bush/Cheney. More of same.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

StanBurroughs2953 — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:59:32 GMT

Stay out of my bedroom.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

RevDak44 — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:53:40 GMT

I have to agree with revhank above. We've been watching the conservative right-wing nuts for the last 7+ years now, dancing the same tired old dance. You would think they had learned their lesson. However, it appears they are going after another Trojan horse to lead our country...if there's anything left of it before Bushy's/Cheneykov's out of office. The November elections were a turning point for those who were fed up with business as usual in WDC.

One would think that the religious right would have learned something...say what you need to say to get into office and then abandon the couchpotatoes...or over-dictate everyone so much that even the lemmings will scream, "Foul."

Heh, heh, heh...they never learn! ;-)

RevDak44

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

Doug in Cincinnati — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 01:03:54 GMT

McCain would do well to honor his base - independents, moderate Republicans and Resgan Democrats.. He pandesr to the right-wing social conservatives at his peril. To whom and where can the religious right turn? Yes, they can sit on their hands, pout and stay home in November. If they have even half of the electoral power they claim, their refusal to support McCain will serve to elect either Obama or Clinton. There will then, thankfully, be no constitutional amendment against same-sex marriage and, instead, incremental moves toward full eqauality for the lesbian and gay community. McCain's hallmark is his status as a maverick who endorses common sense and realistic policy. I suggest his best move is to stay true to what he knows is right and ignore the bigotry and intolerance of a few fringe right-wingers.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

Robert R — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 01:33:36 GMT

The special institution of marriage must be protected from those militant deviants who wish to destroy it and compare it to any filthy deviate relationship. Decent people can understand that.

What does not make sense, is why any true patriot would want America to be overrun with the out-of-control offspring of the irresponsible or criminal underclass. If we can not sterilize them, then we should at least offer them abortion services to control the population of future deviants, violent criminals, and flag burning domestic enemy that they are constantly producing with no more responsibility or accountability than stray dogs humping in an ally.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

BDIdaho — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 02:15:47 GMT

>>> Posted By: Robert R (March 18, 2008 at 9:33 PM)

The special institution of marriage must be protected from those militant deviants who wish to destroy it and compare it to any filthy deviate relationship. Decent people can understand that.>>>

Wasn't this the same argument used against equal rights for black Americans? The "protect marriage" and "filthy deviate relationships" was plastered everywhere when interracial marriages first took off. Decent people understand that we're on this earth to live our own lives to the best of our ability and not to judge and point fingers at people who's relationship has absolutely NO relevance on our own personal quality of life.

Change is hard and has been resisted clear through history. But it happens and it NEEDS to happen.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

pablodavid — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 02:29:42 GMT

Amazing...just amazing how this great nation founded upon biblical principals has fallen and continues to fall morally & espiritually...what's going to be next drug users right? child molesters' rights? adulterous rights? drunkers' rights? etc...if we continue this path, that's America's horizon.

We'll have a "legal" Sodoma & Gomorra society.

Let's us not forget GOD's principal: "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows"

May HE have mercy upon us!

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

modsquad — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 03:29:36 GMT

This country is a REPUBLIC, not the Christian version of the Islamic Republic of Iran. We don't need Christian ayatollahs like Gary Bauer and that Family Research Council wack-job selecting our candidates for us, like the mullahs do in Iran.

Let's end welfare for this kind of supersticious nonsense by ending the so-called "Faith-based Initiatives" program. I resent my tax dollars being used to promote this kind of ignorance.

Karl Marx was wrong about economics, but right on the money when he said religion is the opiate of the masses.

Long live reason.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

camillia1 — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 03:45:19 GMT

I've been waiting for many a year now for someone to explain to me just how allowing gay folk to marry is going to 'destroy' the institution of marriage. Please, someone explain it to me rationally without throwing out the tired old fire and brimstone arguments. I want it explained to me without bringing religion into it. If it's impossible to explain rationally without using religion as the basis for the argument, I guess that tells us all something, doesn't it.

This country cannot enshrine prejudice into our Constitution. I can't imagine a more frivolous amendment than one barring certain people from marrying each other. It'll never pass, let alone get ratified, but that our goverment would even make the effort is pathetic. It'll be a happy day when this weird phase our country is in passes and we're no longer held hostage to the Jesus freaks.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

fralf — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 06:20:06 GMT

You asked for a secular case against Gay Marriage here you go: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1082190/posts

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

fralf — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 06:24:52 GMT

Looking for a non religious reason to ban Same sex marriage:

Here is another one: http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/8/20/172743.shtml

and another http://www.marriageinstitute.ca/images/somerville.pdf

and one from a liberal point of view: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0377/is_156/ai_n6143562

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

peachlilac — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 06:34:29 GMT

in response to camillia1, you are right, there is no way to explain why gay marriage is wrong without bringing up religion. But there is also no basis for marriage itself without understanding that it was established by God alone when he created the first humans, and it was established for the purpose of portraying the image of God in its fullness , beauty, and completeness. The image of God cannot be portrayed by men alone, or by women alone, only by the unity of the two that divinely instituted marriage portrays. Yes, this is religious in nature, but it is the truth. You cannot explain zoos without talking about animals, and you cannot explain marriage without including God and religion, because they are a basic, integral part of it. If you deny God, you have no basis for denying any form of union as inappropriate, because it all just happened. If you acknowledge god as the creator of man, and the founder of marriage, you have to acknoledge that the creator knows the creature more intimately than the creature knows himself, ant therefore has the right to designate what will be acceptable behavior. God established marriage between a man and a woman, and he did this in order to establish a perfect reflection of his character for us to see expressed in our daily lives. It cannot be otherwise.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

Dan123456789 — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 06:52:46 GMT

Camillia1, You are right it is impossible to explain rationally without using religion. The reason for this is that I do not simply view my religion as a set of personal beliefs that are only applicable to me. My religion is my wordlview. It is the framework for which I base all of my morals and ethical decisions. If I were to ask you to defend a position on an argument without utilizing any of your own ethical opinions how would you proceed? For instance, if I asked you to explain to me how homosexuals are being denied any rights when they have the same right that you or I have (to mary anyone we choose of the opposite sex) without using any of your predisposed ideas that homosexuals are somehow pshysiologically or psychologically different from heterosexuals how would you proceed? A better process for an argument is to examine your opponants basis for their opinions and proceed by discussing how they differ from your own. This is the only way to persuade your opponent to respect your views and come to a compromise that is exceptable by both parties (i.e. civil unions.) By refusing to exept your opponents basis for their beliefs you only encourage their unwillingness to compromise.

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jayarr — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:53:41 GMT

My personal choice is man and woman but there is an element in our country that insists upon EVERYBODY doing everything their way-in the name of God, of course-or else you are unpatriotic, a worthless bum, or going straight to Hell. My wife calls them "compassionate conservatives" ( with sarcasm intended) or "neocons" by my daughter who works with their haughty kind. I call them sanctimonious bullies who have too much time on their hands.If there is a sub-culture that is 'different', and are not directly harming themselves or others, and follow a "live and let live" philosophy-let us leave them alone. I am a Jesus Christian and nowhere in scriptures can I detect any animosity on our Lord's part against anyone except hypocrites. I don't drink, so I stay out of bars; I don't gamble so I don't go to casinos, I don't smoke anymore so my house is tobacco free, and I don't participate in any activity that I consider immoral, but I leave judgement to my Maker, and try to love everyone equally as Jesus has commanded-and I ain't no saint. Vaya con Dios .

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

jayarr — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:13:56 GMT

PS-As a side observation, for what ever it is worth- There is more and more scientific evidence (Biogenetics) that supports the theory that so-called 'abnormalities of Nature' are of genetic origin, including alcoholism, a wide variety of sexual preferences, addictions, etc. Wanna bet if you look long enuf and deep enuf we'll find some "wierdos" swinging around in our own family trees ?

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Providential — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:17:25 GMT

There sure are some ignoramuses posting here! Where is the scientific argument against homosexuality? Lets see...um, the fact that the average lifespan of a homosexual is FORTY THREE YEARS OF AGE! It is a DEATH-STYLE, and it kills most of them in the prime of life. Built into this SIN is the reaping of what has been sown. The Founding Fathers considered this behavior so repulsive they could barely bring themselves to mention it, and it was a FELONY in most states and a CAPITAL CRIME in others. There is no debate here. If we stuck all the male Sodomites on the North Pole and the female ones on the South Pole, what would we find in 40 years? Total extinction and annihilation through disease and the inability to pro-create. Like the Bible says, this sin is contrary to nature and these are VILE AFFECTIONS.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

singularization — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:42:08 GMT

I like how Jayarr says his personal choice is a man/woman .. it must be nice to have the choice .. there is a name for those who have a choice .. it's called a BISEXUAL .. and many on the planet wish they had that flexibiity within their persona .. I, however, realize that there are Homosexuals, Heterosexuals and Bisexuals .. all created equally by God .... I am happy that I was created gay and am proud to represent that aspect of Gods nature .. Homosexuality has been around since BEFORE the dawn of man .. it is even expressed in the overall animal kingdom .. it is only once you introduce the stringency of dogmatic organized religion that the layers of a MORON are peeled back and exposed to the sunburn of Light ...

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truth teacher — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:44:00 GMT

Who's the ignoramus? Let me guess---Providential, you believe in the God of the Old Testament who was a tribal deity inclined toward the destruction of anyone who opposed his point of view. Many of us just happen to believe that the GOD taught in the New Testament is the GOD of creation and also a GOD of Love. The UNCONDITIONAL LOVE described in 1st Corinthians 13. Your brand of belief is no different than that of the radicals of Islam. The majority of Muslims are not radicals or extremists, rather, they believe in practicing unconditional love regardless of what someone else may believe and practice. The same holds true for many of those you would condemn to death because they are different from you. They are considerably more loving and more considerate of others than many who call themselves "christian." But of course, if you believe that GOD is a GOD of death and destruction, and your mind is made up that you are right and everyone else is wrong, then nothing I say will persuade you to reconsider your position and open your mind to any TRUTH. But then, maybe you also believe the malarky coming from Washington that started another Vietnam scenario. Providential, I hope that you are more open-minded than your comments reveal.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

truth teacher — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:55:23 GMT

We hold these truths to be self evident, that ALL men (and women) are created EQUAL; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Sound familiar? It should. If it doesn't, then you need to re-read the preamble to the Constitution of these United States. By the way, Providential, the Bible you think you're quoting teaches that man has free will-which means the right and ability to make choices. And that holds whether you like the choices or not. That's why I no longer attend a bible thumping, King James only type church. They have no heart unless you see eye to eye with them.

And by the way, GOD is NOT narrow minded OR judgemental.

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LTF1 — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:37:30 GMT

"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" etc is not in the preamble of the Constitution, TRUTH TEACHER, but in the Declaration of Independence.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

Bill47 — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:51:13 GMT

The people who apparently don't believe in the seperation of church and state and quote the Bible to justify discrimination against homosexual folks are just as correct as the people who used to quote the Bible to justify the Spahish Inquisition, who used to quote the Bible as they piously burned so-called witches at the stake, who used to quote the Bible to justify slavery.......When will we ever learn?

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Bill47 — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 15:07:59 GMT

That should be "Spanish" Inquisition (stupid fingers). Apologies for my lack of proof-reading.

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YouCannotTrickMe — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 15:28:59 GMT

Republicans are idiots, hell bent on greed and destruction and are only hiding behind religion and morals that they don't really have. Starting with Bush who is a drunk, a liar and a man who has sent thousand of innocent people to dye in vane.

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newsnote — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 15:56:19 GMT

youcannottrickme, how about youcannotspell, "dye in vane"?

anyway, who really cares about gay marriage? not a big issue, but those who are so against it and claim the sanctity of marriage should try doing something about the 50% divorce rate before worrying about gays tarnishing anything.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

LTF1 — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:54:10 GMT

I think so called "no-fault" divorce is one of the worst things this country has done to itself. It allows one party to break a contract for no good reason largely without penalty. The result has been economically devastating to millions of children and women since the 1960s. Studies have repeatedly shown that the best guarantee against poverty for women with children is a married two parent family. This has been demonstrated across all racial and ethnic groups. If our society put some real financial pain on the party responsible for the break-up of a marriage, then maybe people would work harder at having their marriages succeed. And fwiw, I have no problem with gay adoption or marriage, but I do prefer that state legislatures legalize these practices as opposed to the courts making a mockery of the original intent of their state constitutions.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

Starfarer — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:54:18 GMT

I have more of a problem with Britney Spears marriage than with gay marriage. The Federalist position is correct. Cultures vary across states. What is acceptable to California and Massachusetts may not be acceptable to Kansas and vice-versa. Pushing a Constitutional amendment is just asking for a fight that will distract from the war McCain is committed to winning.

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truth teacher — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:34:01 GMT

Marriage is about commitment-a loving relationship between two people each of whom is totally committed to the well-being of the other. It doesn't matter whether the two people involved meet some conservative, narrow-minded criteria. Committment is committment. Many marriages do not last do to a lack of committment. It doesn't matter who is at fault. It takes two people for a marriage to work and last. It also takes two people to make a relationship work and last. No-fault divorce was brought into the 20th century with the intent of ending a legally existing relationship without tying up expensive court time and thus save money as well.

I do believe that the Federalist position would be correct when it comes to the States rather than the Fed deciding the issue of "gay marriage" legalization.

Also, thanks to LTF1 for pointing out my erroroneous quote. But my point remains-we are the ones to make our choices involving Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Its up to us what we do with our lives, not the government. Everyone in these United States is free to choose for themselves. And your elected representatives, whether state or federal, need to know your feelings and thoughts on the various issues.

As for Bill47, the Bible can be mis-quoted and used to prove just about anything you want to try and prove. Just like the current administration and the invasion of Iraq for instance.

And, for those who like jumping out of airplanes without a parachute (saying that all Republicans are idiots, greedy, etcetera) I do hope you find a soft spot to land and that you survive the landing.

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Providential — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:18:29 GMT

Truth teacher, you should change your name to Error Teacher. Sadly you don't know what you are talking about. The God of the Old Testament is the God of the New. There is NO DIFFERENCE. He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jesus Christ was the Messiah of Israel and Saviour of the world. The New Testament condemns homosexuality as fiercely as the Old. The same Apostle who wrote 1Cor. 13 ALSO WROTE chapter 6:9-11, and Romans 1:18-32, which you need to read. Your idea of "love" is an unBiblical LIE. It is a delusion. It is the 60's, perverted, rebellious hippy-"love". It is ungodly and unholy. Over and over we are told "Be ye holy, for I the Lord am holy", and further, "without holiness, no man shall see the Lord". Your problem is you are ungodly, unholy, and seek to create a false god in your own image, a god that suits your sin and rebellion. You don't know the Lord, you don't love Jesus Christ nor do you serve Him. Your problem is you hate God, you hate Christ, and you hate the Bible from cover to cover. Admit it.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

camillia1 — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:37:56 GMT

Well Peachlilac, you see, I don't acknowledge god as the creator of humanity or the founder of marriage. People understandably take the short view of things, and they either forget or never bothered to find out that marriage hasn't always been an idealistic spiritual union. For a good part of human history it has been a financial or political transaction. I'm happily married, and god and religion have never had any part in it. I married because I fell in love and wanted to live with that person and have the legal protection of marriage for myself and any children we produce. I love being married and enjoy the security of it, and it seems only right to me that any two consenting adults who are in love should be able to enjoy the same.

As for Dan123456789, I'm refusing to accept religion as an argument to change our laws and Constitution because America is not (yet) a religious state. It's a shame you don't view your personal beliefs as only applicable to you. That must be a constant frustration to live with, considering you really are the only person they are applicable to. There are many things I find personally distasteful, however I'm not so naive or self-important as to think I have the right to expect the law to be changed to prohibit those things. As for me utilizing my own ethical opinions to argue a point, at least I can say they are my own ethical opinions, arrived at by a lifetime of self-education and serious viewing of things from every angle...not something my pastor told me last Sunday, or something that was brainwashed into me from birth (and I was raised in a religion and it stopped making sense to me somewhere around the age of eight). I've read the Bible from cover to cover numerous times, and I find little of redeeming value in there, and certainly nothing to hang one's ethical hat on. Religious folk like to say they're morally superior, but their morals are the morals of children: do what you're told and get rewarded; do otherwise and get punished. I do what is right, kind and ethical towards my fellow human beings simply because it is right, kind and ethical. As for civil unions, I am all for that and would be quite happy if every state in the union passed laws allowing that, if only as a temporary stepping stone to the eventual right to marry; once civil unions are legal across the board, people will see over time that society won't crumble, marriages won't fail at any higher rate than they already do, and they'll get used to the idea and finally allow gays to have full marriages.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

truth teacher — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:08:49 GMT

Providential,

It is painfully obvious that you are the one who needs to do your homework. If you did, you would know that the greek word "AGAPE" used in 1st Corinthians 13 actually means "Unconditional" LOVE. Further, if you really knew GOD, you would also know that GOD is a GOD of Unconditional Love, unlike many humans who love with a long string attached. Also, since you haven't done your homework, don't presume to lecture anyone about GOD or what YOU believe the Bible says or doesn't say. And, NEVER, EVER make the mistake of saying that someone does not know GOD or even worse, hates GOD, just because they don't see eye to eye with you. I have been on this planet for over fifty years now, I personally have been thru many things which helped me to gain a much better understanding of the nature of GOD, and to have a good Personal relationship with GOD. And yes, I have done my homework, which includes studying ancient religions to find what they were actually teaching. AND, FYI, my wife and I are both ordained ministers teaching the TRUTH of the message of Christianity--which is LOVE and HOPE. Not gloom, doom, pie in the sky and condemnation of all who fail to see eye to eye with what we teach. Ever heard of Bishop Carlton Pearson? Or Joel Osteen? Maybe you should find out what they teach. And then put it side by side with the teachings of the Dalai Lama. You would see that there is very little difference between the two. Maybe you should also study up on who actually compiled the Bible, what they forged in the process, and the motives behind the elimination of all who dared to disagree with them. And by the way, that organization is still in existence today, and still has the desire to dominate the world and eliminate all who disagree with their point of view. And, they still have many documents hidden in their vaults which they will never reveal because it would expose them for whay they truly are. Providential, I do hope that you will learn to stop jumping out of airplanes without a parachute (aka jumping to a conclusion).

And Camillia1, I don't see eye to eye with you on everything, however, I also have understanding of why you think and believe as you do. Therefore, I will not condemn you or put you down because of your beliefs. In fact, I agree that no-one should try to force their beliefs or views on another. I also agree that the states should decide the issue of "civil unions" not the federal government. Society will not crumble, the family as such will not cease to be, nor will morality go down the tube. However, if narrow-minded people were to get their way, the world would be plunged right back into the dark ages and everyone would would have to think and believe the same way or risk being put to death.

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pinkpanther87413 — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:19:35 GMT

I WOUNDER IF THIS MEANS HE AGREES WITH CHINESE POLICY OF KILLING THE SECOND CHILD BORN? BECAUSE TWO GUYS CAN'T HAVE KIDS, IN THE TRADITIONAL WAY. SO THEY ADOPT! IS THIS NOW CONCIDERED WRONG IN THE EYES OF THIS MAN AND HIS GOD AND MINISTER JOHN HAGEE? DO THEY WANT TO KILL NEWBORNS LIKE CHINA, WHO OUTLAWED HOMOSEXUALITY MANY MANY YEARS AGO? WE SAY AND DO NOTHING ABOUT THE CHINESE KILLINGS TODAY! WHY? GOD JUDGES WHEN EYES CLOSE AND THE HEART STOPS, IT'S NOT OUR JOB TO DO IT WHILE ALIVE. OUR JOB IS TO GET ALONG WITH ALL NO MATTER WHAT, TO BAD ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER WORDS, OUR ACTIONS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES, LATELY, AND IT'S BECOME SAD, AND WAY OFF MESSAGE, ON BOTH SIDES, AND THERE SUPPORTERS! I DON'T LIKE TO LIE TO MY KIDS WHEN TRYING TO MOTIVATE THEM INTO A GOOD EDUCATION, WHEN THEY ASK "IF I'M GOOD ENOUGH COULD I BE PRESIDENT" THAT WHEN I SAY YES, IT'S NOT A LIE, THAT'S CALLED HOPE! WHEN WE OPEN OUR MINDS AND HEARTS, NOT OUR WALLETS. LOVE IS A WOUNDERFULL MYSTERIOUS EMOTION, AND SHOULD NOT BE BOUND TO MANS LAWS. JUST OUR HEARTS,IF WE SHOW WE GOT ONE. I SAW A MANS HEART, COME TO WORDS IN PUBLIC, AND IT WAS DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT ENOUGH TO LOSE WHAT WE NEED. HOPE!

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billy livengood — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 03:57:42 GMT

WELL THIS GOES TO SHOW THAT THE BIBLE WHICH IS THE WORD OF GOD HIMSELF, HE JUST PUT THE PIN IN MANS HANDS, IS SO TRUE. GOD IS LOVE, IF GOD DOESN'T LIVE IN YOUR HEART YOU DONT TRUELY KNOW WHAT LOVE IS. THE BIBLE CALL HOMOSEXUALITY SIN AND THAT IS WHAT IT IS. GOD DID DESIGN THE FAMILY AFTER WHICH GOD, DESIGNED THE CHURCH. I HAVE FOUND THAT HE PUTS KINGS AND JUDGES IN PLACE IN THE BIBLE, IN WHICH HE SAYS WHETHER THEY ARE GOOD OR BAD BY THE WAY THEY FOLLOW THE BIBLE. I PRAY THAT YOU ALL COME TO A SAVING KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS CHRIST BEFORE YOU MEET MY GOD, BECAUSE IF NOT YOU WILL BOW YOUR KNEE TO GOD. AT WHICH TIME YOU WILL SPEND ETERNINTY IN THE PITS OF HELL, AND I WOULD NOT WANT TO SEE THAT. GOD HAS SENT HIS SON JESUS CHRIST THAT ALL SHOULD NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. JESUS DIED ON CALVARY SO YOU DONT HAVE TO GO TO HELL, WHICH WAS MADE FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS DEMONS, NOT MANKIND. IF YOU DO NOT EXCEPT THE LORD YOU HAVE MADE THE DISCUSSION THAT YOU WHAT TO GO TO HELL. SO YOU ARE THE ONE THAT PUTS YOURSELF THERE NOT GOD.

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deepthings — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 04:10:02 GMT

The article is very clear on addresing the attempts of a potential president for this great country in maximizing "faith votes" and balancing these with the opinions of moderate republicans and independent voters. It called for a clear position which in my mind was well said coming from a politician who is vying for as much votes as possible. In my opinion he clearly said no to same sex marriage but is mindful of the pessimism towards this position from valued voters.

For those who try to use this article to promote their stand for same sex marriage your reasoning is much warped. If your mother had gotten married to a woman or your father had gotten married to another man you would certainly not be around, not even for adoption purposes. The constant use of marrying who you love even if it is the same sex defies even the principles and laws of nature as there can be no reproduction from such copulation and the world would have aged long time ago and ended by our own doings. Being free to follow your heart is like a thief who says that he must feed his children so robbing the rich and feeding the poor is acceptable. The means to the end disqualifies and criminalizes the end product. Reference to China is irrelevant in this case and is a total different matter. I trust that such darkness will disappear and eyes be opened to the truth that constantly evades us.

Deepthings

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Providential — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 20:01:25 GMT

Error-Teacher. I don't care if you are "ordained". You are spueing unBiblical LIES while claiming to serve God. The Bible speaks of the WRATH WHICH IS TO COME. Christ the Lord spoke about HELL over and over and over. The whole New Testament is filled with teaching about Hell, the Day of Judgment and destruction of the wicked, etc. Your teaching about "agape" is nonsense. No Greek Lexicon defines it as "unconditional love". The KJV translates it as Charity, and it means benevolence. If God's "love" was unconditional, then that would mean anyone and everyone is saved no matter how they live, even as wickedly as Hitler. You mention Carlton-the-Apostate-Pearson. He is under the influence of doctrines of devils. I am not surprised you reference known apostates.

You do hate God as revealed in Scripture, and you strive with your Maker and His right to Judge sin and sinners. The only "hope" the Bible teaches is through Christ, and we are told to REPENT AND BE CONVERTED so that our sins may be blotted out. And we are further told that he who covers his sin shall not proser, but whoso confesses AND FORSAKES THEM shall have mercy. Paul warned us that Satan's ministers APPEAR as ministers of righteousness and that Satan himself appears as an angel of light. You are deluded and serving the god of your own making. Repent and believe all God has said.

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Bluestone — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:18:07 GMT

I feel so sorry for some of you people. Anybody with any reason at all knows that a man is not supposed to marry a man and a woman is not supposed to marry a woman. That is just common sense. Now, I am not going to try and convince you, I am just going to say that the day will come when every knee will bow and every tongue will confess. Think of me on that day. All this craziness goes against God's teachings and I promise you, He will prevail. Don't even answer this because I will never read it, just remember what I said when it happens. Oh, and George Bush is not a drunk. He is a recovered alcholic. Give him some credit. He has information than none of us have and I thank him for working so hard to keep me safe. Wish I could vote for him again.

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Youmakemelaugh — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:22:00 GMT

I feel sorry for people that claim to know what god is about while spiting vitriol and hate. The claim with absolute certainty that they not only do believe there is a wrathful vengeful being of divine power that lords over them but that everyone should be must believe as they do or be forever damned is very sad. This is the attitude of men who carried out the inquisition and burned old woman at the stake because they were worshipers of evil. These are the same clowns that kept us in the dark ages for 400 years hoarding knowledge to keep power. These are the same morons that persecuted Galileo and threatened anyone that did not toe the line or stepped outside their dogmatic vision of the universe. These are the villains of our past and the ones that claim absolute certainty in the value of fear of their god these and the current day zealots are cut form the same cloth. The person that warns me of divine retribution for my defense of another is same kind of person that makes the Taliban work. Anything that can not be held to debate and be questioned does not have value, that kind of thinking only lives in the shadow and will only work as long as it avoids the light of reason. So leave god out of the argument unless you can get him to show up personally because frankly how you feel in your stomach about what he wants should not hold much weight.

I support everyone’s right to think whatever bizarre thing they want (it is a free country) as long as to do so they do not step on another’s rights. I do not think I could expect the same from my detractors. Frankly any who argue against the right of two people to get married based on the fact they do not like the idea do not understand or support the concept of freedom. Freedom is not freedom if it is built on the limiting of another’s rights to meet your agenda.

You will then get the argument that then anything should be able to marry anything children, dogs etc … That is not true nor does anyone who supports the gay marriage measure ask for those other things. It is not the same as marring a child because both people getting married in this case are adults (childs rights would be broken, see above) … it is not the same as a dog because a dog can not choose (dogs rights, see above).. This augment is flimsy at best and do nothing but to misdirect the dialog.

So after we have taken god out and we have taken dogs and inanimate objects out as well we are left with the holy grail of procreation. Well I have news for all the people that cling to this argument; there is no law that says you have to have children when you get married. So why is it suddenly a criterion for these couples? We do not make man and woman couples have children and if they don’t they are not penalized or hassled by our churches or the system in general. It is a misnomer to claim marriage is only about having children because that is simply not the case. Marriage has become a bond that has implications in law and to deny a citizen that right because of the sex of the one they love in the name of some non existent procreation standard is a fallacy.

I stand by these individuals rights because it is the right thing to do and because frankly no one has come up with a good reason why I should not.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

feduo — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 03:11:43 GMT

McCain is right this should be a state issue the Feds have too much on them to deal with this non issue. Many people with same sex marriage would use it only as a tax break anyway.Personnally I am getting older and uglier and I say to the gays take a friend with you it's less competition.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

Providential — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 04:13:59 GMT

You make me laugh:

Your comments show you have yet to read an actual history book, the Bible, or anything else relating to FACTS.

re: McCain's Tricky Dance

Youmakemelaugh — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:27:02 GMT

Proidential: Frankly your FACTS are in questions when you base your whole argment on ancient book based on coopted myths then editied and translated untold times ... I have read a history book it was just not writen by your pastor or the guy who proceeded him ...