The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

re: The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

astein1 — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:26:41 GMT

Andrew,

The first 90% of your article is well written, without bias or opinion, but you show your hand halfway through the final paragraph. I find that your personal political views get in the way of a unique perspective to how generational groups tend to vote. You imply that anyone changing their political views is a "defector" as if they are fleeing an ideology, not a political party. Voting democratic or republican is more complicated than voting just based on ideological issues. If that were true, Richard Nixon would never have been elected president. But he was because of general sentiment surrounding the political forum at the time: Vietnam. Your chart clearly shows that a majority of voting Americans leaned towards the Democratic Party, or at least its ideals, but the war was a make-or-break issue that took the ruling party out of office and put in its place its chief rival.

I don't think anyone could argue that most of these people completely changed their ideologies in order to vote for the other party, but never-the-less Nixon won the White House. The same could be said for this election cycle. The party in power is likely to be voted out of office not because the majority of voters have changed political ideologies, but because of this make-or-break issue of the Iraq war.

The change in power from election cycle to election cycle is good for the political temperature of the country. It allows an unpopular party to contract, reinvent itself, and reemerge as an adapted entity, ready to deal with the problems of the day. I believe this is why the democratic party is destined to retake the White House this fall. It is not because of a shift in ideology across the country and not because John McCain is a weak candidate. It is because of a failed policy that the American people are ready and eager to change. This is my analysis of the data shown in your article.

re: The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

deebee1222 — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:02:29 GMT

I am in agreement with you. I came of age in the late 60's early 70's and definitely identified with the liberal side. This slant has stayed with me all of my life, although I am much more skeptical of politics now than ever.

re: The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

cowboytogo — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:16:58 GMT

The GOP was just as at a disadvatage in 1972 when Richard M. Nixon carried 49 states.

re: The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

paulte — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:34:00 GMT

Yes, but the young don't vote as much as the older folks do! The young are jumping on the Obama bandwagon because of the hype. Most of them don't even have a political philosophy. Will they stick with the Democratic party when McCain beats Obama? I doubt it! Hype has no staying power.

However, the young who are well brought up and properly educated are politically conservative and will be the future of the Republican party. This is a center-right nation and will remain so.

re: The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

John Harrington — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:36:30 GMT

I don't think the Pew data fully explains shifts in electoral politics. When you look at every presidential election since 68, you'd have to conclude that it was a reaction to events, policies, and to a certain extent characters that decided the outcome, not party loyalty. For 2008, a malestrom of bad policies and bad events will expel the GOP, unless there is some extreme re-defining of the Democratic candidates before election day. The more important generational story is the more libertarian attitudes towards social issues now held by the younger generation (except for the odd shift away from supporting abortion rights) that bodes badly for the GOP if they continue to rely on those issues to win elections.

re: The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

John Harrington — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:42:56 GMT

"However, the young who are well brought up and properly educated are politically conservative and will be the future of the Republican party. This is a center-right nation and will remain so."

I beg to differ. The well-educated in this country tend to lean Democratic. Look at cities like Seattle, where I live. We have the highest % of college-educated people of any city and we are 80% Democratic (and our job market and real estate markets are holding up very well, thank you, thanks to our dynamic economy). The change in social attitudes of the younger generation now coming up will change the US to a center-left nation in just a few short years.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

re: The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

Clhandluke — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:47:45 GMT

I am a 30 year old male and I couldn't agree with Churchill more. I have found myself becoming more and more conservative the older I get and more I learn about human nature. I believe that we should have less govt. in our lives, big government only wastes money and gets nothing done. Liberal ideologies have ruined the family unit , encouraged the down and out (and lazy) to look for a handout from the govt. instead of standing on their own two feet, and has made race take the place of competence in job placement and access to educational opportunities. Typically people who support liberal policy are those whose only knowledge of the world has come to them inside the bubble of our educational system and those who do not have what it takes to be successful in this world without the help of others. On top of that they have tried to eliminate the concept of consequence and responsibility. Having said that I don't believe that George Bush is anything close to a true conservative, he has less respect for individual freedoms than any liberal of recent memory and he doesn't mind corporations infringing on individual freedom with pollution etc..

re: The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

dgage — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:01:11 GMT

Isn't it interesting how the extremes seem to define the parties. With the libs, the far lefties get most of the attention with their gun control and government programs for those who can't figure life out for themselves. On the other hand, the GOP has its far right so called conservative christians. Here you have the same behavior but with other select pics on who they want to control or force to conform. The reality is that those who wish to control and increase morality via law are by definition "the conservatives" and those who wish for the government to get out of our lives all together are by definition "liberals". So if you want government to control guns, abortion to be illegal, programs that force people to conform and and you have an endless mind supply of rules and laws you'd like to see written and enforced-well you are a conservative "by definition". If you want to let people make their own decisions, raise their own children, worship by their choice, and have a desire to shrink government as a whole-well, you are a liberal "by definition". Now, mix it with the competitive desires of the two main parties and you have the mess we see today.

We have clearly reached a point of legal gridlock in the US. We need to get back to some basics.

People need to step up and start taking responsibility for their own actions and teaching their kids to do the same.

Many call us a Christian nation-then act like it. Christianity is not rules and policies. Its the grace of God through Jesus Christ and the love expressed by it. Jesus had the opportunity to go with the rules and have the adulterous woman stoned, but He did not-rather He told her I do not condemn you. We have to quit trying to control and conemn the actions of others. Let's find some common ground. Love your neighbor as yourself.

I have traditionally been a republican. That will likely change this time. We cannot continue to go around the world forcing people to adopt our ways and lifestyles. How about lets spend the billions right here bringing the poor and needy out of poverty. Then lets go around the world doing the same. Jesus never said to go fight the terrorist. In fact he said turn the other cheek. Can you do that? If not, I question your Christianity.

re: The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

astein1 — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:15:56 GMT

I think one of the biggest problems facing many young Americans is the vague definitions of liberal and conservative. These terms have been thrown around for longer than I have been alive, yet no one has been able to objectively define them. Can a person even be liberal on some policies and conservative on others without being branded by his or her party as a "traitor to the cause?" Look at the republican primaries as an example: Each of the loosing candidates was labeled as too liberal on some issue was therefore 'unelectable' to the republican base. Guiliani supported gay rights, Romney at some was pro-choice, and Huckabee was seen as liberal on taxes (he raised them once).

I wonder what kind of candidate would actually represent the country as a whole. Maybe he (or she) is fiscally conservative but socially liberal. But I think it should be broken down even further.

Each label has come to represent a number of ideological policies that for no apparent reason have been linked together. What do taxes and gay marriage have to do with each other except that it is conservative to be anti-both? Why are Republicans who are pro-choice and Democrats who are pro-gun are seen as outsiders to their respective parties? Can a true moderate ever be elected to run this country's government when he is the person who best represents the positions of the entire electorate?

Each election cycle, save a few, the presidential election is won by only a few points. In what way does this outcome represent the feelings of the nation as a whole? I believe we as American citizens should strive to do better and be able to elect a candidate who has a majority of his views in line with the entire electorate instead of all his views in line with a majority of the electorate.

re: The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

character matters — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:08:26 GMT

Per Mr. Harrington, as posted earlier, "We have the highest % of college-educated people of any city and we are 80% Democratic..........The change in social attitudes of the younger generation now coming up will change the US to a center-left nation in just a few short years."

You are precisely correct, sir, the destruction of our nation's moral fiber, the systematic dismantlement of our collective common sense and the abdication of our standards and sense of responsibility are all directly attributable to what is taught in the classrooms by our left-of-center, college-educated elite.

Until these virtues of conservatism; honor, respect, loyalty, dignity, duty, integrity......character, are widely taught, our people may proclaim themselves Republican or Democrat, but the United States will not return to it's principled roots.

re: The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

leadsledgh — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:20:33 GMT

to "character matters" I am sorry but it is the Republicans who are responsible for us losing our moral fiber. They are the ones who attack and fight against our true American Morals of inclusiveness, tolerance, respect of differences, protection of minorities. They are the ones responsible for us losing our national moral fiber but sending us into immoral wars, by fighting to remove any semblance of protection and support for the less fortunate at home and abroad. They are the ones responsible for our loses.

Until the virtues of Liberalism; honor, respect, loyalty, dignity, duty, integrity and character manage to overcome the self-serving, greedy, dishonorable, lowest common denominator, rude, immature and moronic "values" of "conservatism" (what you call conservatism would be called "nonsense" by someone like Goldwater) we will continue our inexorable decline.

Conservative "morals" are the "morals" which allow for anti-gay, anti-black, anti-hispanic, anti-asian , anti-religious freedom, anti-freedom of speech, anti-political freedom, anti-dissent, anti-democratic actions and behaviors to be rationalized.

Liberalism is the true american political creed, it has been since the start and the times and places where it hasnt been the dominant view have lead, universally, to our greatest tragedies as a society. Liberals freed the slaves, gave women the right to vote, gave blacks the right to vote twice (because conservatives managed to thwart liberal intentions), defended our civil liberties from McCarthy and his cronies, contained the USSR, beat the Nazis, led us out of the depression into the most powerful and richest country on earth. Liberals reduced poverty from approx. 30% pre-new deal to 15% or so by the end of Johnson's administration. Liberals led our country during all of its greatest, most productive and most long-lasting economic expansions in our history. AND they are far more likely to actually pay for what they spend.

So called conservative "values", aren't.

re: The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

marinerph12345 — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 04:10:19 GMT

Wait a minute, remember the election in 2006?

A little over one year ago:

1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;

2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;

3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006, we have seen:

1) Consumer confidence plummet;

2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;

3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);

4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);

5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;

6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.

America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work with what's handed to him.

Also:

Taxes...Whether Democrat or a Republican you will find these statistics enlightening and amazing.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008

Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K -tax $4,500

Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500

Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000

Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250

Both democratic candidates will return to the higher tax rates.

It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and

Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever.

If Obama or Hillary are elected, they both say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen.

This is like the movie The Sting with Paul Newman; you scam somebody out of some money and they don't even know what happened.

re: The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

mikewilliamsjr — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:47:59 GMT

You can slice it any way you want it marinerph... but the cost of living has only gone up over the past 8 years. Gas prices were only one dollar-something a gallon back then. You can blame all of this mess on the dems in congress. But the smart bet is that the dummy you are defending like such a zealot has been asleep at the wheel for eight years, worried only about instilling fear in the minds of our countrymen, while our economy has gone to hell. You are either monumentally naive, or are so "right wing" that you are blinded to reality.

re: The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

ervinst@hotmail.com — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:53:06 GMT

What has changed over the past eight years or even longer? Presidents change but our Congress for most part is the same. Bush I agree has not been really great at President..but then again neighter was Clinton. Our taxes were higher then..no question. Our economy has gone to hell for sure....gas prices are higher...but who controls it..not the President..

We are in a time when our Congress needs to get with the program and get this country started toward being independant from forign country's. It is time for us to take care of our own first.

When changing our President for a new one why not change all of our representives too since it is they who actually form our laws and are allowing our company's to take our jobs elsewhere.

re: The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

astein1 — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:29:58 GMT

In response to marinerph12345:

Yes it is true that taxes are lower under the Bush administration, but what you fail to include in your data is our national debt, and the value of the dollar on a global scale. Bush's tax plan has driven this country so far into debt that our biggest economic competitor in the world, China, owns over 30% of it.

On top of that, the US dollar is now on par with the Canadian dollar. Maybe I'm the only one, but I miss the days of equating Canadian money with Monopoly money.

It is easy to point to the amount each of us pays in taxes and point to the lesser column and declare it the winner. But taking a closer look, I don't know how many people can say they are better off now than 8 years ago. I may disagree with the way former president Clinton has conducted himself during his wife's campaign, but I have no doubt that his fiscal policies were much more responsible for the wellbeing of the American dollar and the economy.

re: The GOP's Generation Gap: Thanks for Nothing, Dubya

astein1 — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:56:06 GMT

Let's break down one of these tax brackets, shall we:

Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008

Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750

Instead of looking at how much we pay, lets look at how much we have left:

Married making 75K - retain $54,000 Married making 75K - retain $56,250

Now look at the price of gas between these two periods:

1999 - $1.30/gallon 2008 - $3.50/gallon

So by the math a family under Clinton could afford about 41,500 gallons of gas/year and under Bush a family can afford about 17,000 gallons of gas/year. Who had the better fiscal policies now?