Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

sedonakaren — Fri, 09 May 2008 00:52:24 GMT

While your logic seems ok, you're talking as if one can actually TRUST Clinton and take her word for what she says. IF Barack magnanomously gave her the two states you mention, I suspect she would have some other trick up her sleeve...like maybe suing the caucus states for being "undemocratic." I don't know what she's thinking, but I know she thinks "Where there's a will, there's a way." And the woman certainly has the WILL.

It's scary to think we came so close to nominating a FEMALE George W. Bush!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Montiero — Fri, 09 May 2008 00:56:57 GMT

There's nice and then there is too nice. Obama can be nice, but if he is too nice people (regular voters and superdelegates) will see him being weak and we can't have that. I agree that he should agree to something even if she ends up with more delegates, but something like what the Michigan state party proposed is as far as he should go. He will look very magnanimous and open minded while working with the state's Democratic leaders without looking like a whim by giving his opponent everything she wants.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

frjiles1 — Fri, 09 May 2008 02:23:42 GMT

Alot of Clinton supporters have been calling on her to run independent. I think she should. Even if she wins the democractic nomination, she would still be lose because MANY in her party would have even more discontent towards her AND the media would scream racism and say she stole the nomination from him.

I agree with many that her only true chance is running independent! Many would say that she would be splitting the party but it appears to me that the democratic party left her a long time ago and the fact that they are not going to count FL and MI votes is a plus for her. THe media obviously hates Clinton but it is even worse when your own party treat you like a step child and treat your opponent like prince charming and the way the Media is carrying on about Obama is sickening and believe it or not, it is truly going to begin to turn so many people off!

Clinton say PA was the game changer well she need to make WV be the game changer and leave the Dem party in style afer that victory and form her own party! I sincerely hope she gives an independent run serious consideration

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

notroubleatall1963 — Fri, 09 May 2008 02:52:26 GMT

Oh, give up Clintonites and stay with the Democratic Party - it's absurd to shuffle off in a huff and run as an independent - what on earth would that achieve? It would simply weaken the Democrats and McCain would likely win.

Must HIllary ALWAYS PANDER to the McCain team? Maybe she should just run as John McSame's VP and ditch her party altogether.

The media does not hate Hillary - but it appears just about everyone closer to them in DC circles has Clinton Fatigue. Do these folks not get enough attention, enough adulation, enough power in their lives? I say, "Let bygones be bygones" and let's all unite to win the White House, usher in a brand new era and ask Clintons to play a leading role -- but let's get over this petty tit-for-tat.

Apparently, all that hoop rolling while Hillary was at Wellesley has addled her brain and she is now having trouble adjusting to the obvious math. She's a great woman, but Obama is a breath of fresh air - BRING IT ON, in the memorable words of George Bush Jr.!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

collegevoter — Fri, 09 May 2008 03:31:45 GMT

The media, which I will admit hates Hillary Clinton, is the only thing that has kept her in the race this long. Face it, if any other candidate had lost 11 straight contests they would have pushed them out after Wisconsin.

If Obama was where Hillary was even 2 months ago, he would have been forced out of the race.

The only reason she is still in this is because she can trade on a powerful name. We're all trying to be nice and heal the party, but when I hear some people start decrying how she was treated unfairly by the media and encouraging her to run as an independent, I just have to remind them that the media has kept her in this campaign longer than they would have any other candidate.

If you don't believe me ask Mitt Romney. He got pushed out of the race far earlier and was basically in the same position (on the other side) as she is now.

Don't mind being patient, but we need a unified party at the end of this.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

citron16 — Fri, 09 May 2008 03:59:03 GMT

If the democrats don't count Florida and Michigan and they give this election to Obama then for the first time in my life I will vote Republican and vote for McCain!!! Since the democrats and the media have done nothing but be on Obama's side I think the democratic party will fall apart. The democrats and the media think if they say democrats will unite and vote for Obama that people will do that!! I think they are very wrong about that. people see Obama for who he really is after finding out about Rev. Wright and staying with the church for 20 years, Rezco, Ayersand all the rest, it will divide the democrtic party!!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Chaya — Fri, 09 May 2008 04:29:56 GMT

Sen.Obama does not even have to argue his case as his spokespersons in Newsweek and MSNBC and rest of the media,come in to help!What a charmed life does our future king/president lives!That's fine,boys and girls,but don't look for me to vote Obama,in November!The supers like Kennedy and Kerry better watch out,too.We older women are everywhere!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Concerned Citizen 21 — Fri, 09 May 2008 04:37:24 GMT

I say do it, i like mccain, i like obama, obama because hes inspiring, mccain because he ll work tirelessly to limit equal pay and push for a SC. justice that limits abortion which I being a man, can deem immoral, and thus become a hypocrit. BUt hey go head, chaya, be illogical, ur a shining example of a stereotypical woman.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Chaya — Fri, 09 May 2008 04:49:02 GMT

All this talk about media being nice to Hillary and let her run instead of running her out is plain stupid!She can run as long as she wants to,till a clear winner emerges!Your prince has not got his required 2025 yet, even after bribing and threatening vulnerable supers!And as for supers stealing Obama's candidacy that is equally ignorant.most of them have already picked their candidate,remaining couple of hundred are so are afraid to choose a side as they are in extremely vulnerable districts!Ofcourse that excludes Pelosi,Clyburn,Donna Brazil and the like who pretend neutrality while supporting Obama.If this is my Democratic Party,I 'll have no regrets when I walk away from it.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

tjirish34 — Fri, 09 May 2008 06:39:40 GMT

You know what Chaya I am assuming your a woman. Call me sexist if you want. I voted for Jill as Gov in Indiana. But you and other women writing the type of comments below: You sound just like a woman. Irrational because you didn't get your way. If a man was in Hillary's shoes he would admit that Obama just ran a better campaign and beat him in a close race AND he would be in negotiations to get something out of it. Ie... VP, Senate Majority leader, supreme court etc... Which may be in Hillary's plans. But we are not talking about her we are talking about you Chaya and all the other posts from women that I have seen supporting hillary. I am a supposed Hilay voter-wm-44-blue collar and I support Obama. Bribing superdelegates? Supers pretending to be neutral? Chaya what don't you get? He leads in pledged delegates and in popular votes. BTW notice Hillary shutup about how important popular votes are now that he just eliminated that argument. As I said Obama has ran a better strategic campaign in all aspects. He has beaten the Clinton Machine in the Democratic party. That is FACT! I have supported candidates who have lost so I know how it feels when someone you supported has lost. But remember Chaya and all you other women voters. This was not a GOP candidate who beat Hillary. Obama still supports your political beliefs. If you are pro choice Obama will defend that issue. BTW McCain has already said he will appoint conservaive judges. If another supreme court justice retires... Another conservative judge equals posible overturn of Roe/Wade. Think about that. Plus your sons and daughters in Iraq for a long time. As I said at top. You women supporting Hillay are not thinking raionally and need to start thinking raionally or we are going to have 4 more years of blah... If the other shoe was on the other foot. Obama was trying to make the arguments that Hillary is making. I guarantee Chaya you and other Hillary supporters would be angry. Obama's campaign has been more tha fair with Hillary cause they know they need her supporters. I have never seen obama say an ill word about Hillary. I have on the other hand seen Hillary mock his speeches about hope etc... Hillary lost this primary for these reasons which I am quoting from George Will: Hillary was Too Late In: recognizing the electorate does not share her view she was entitled to the nomination. Too Late in seeing Obama was a serious challenger, too late in anticipating she would not dispatch Obama by Super Tuesday, too late in planning for the special challenges of caucus states, too late in channeling her inner shot-and-a-beer hard hat. Most of all too late in understanding the democratic primary rules about partitioning delegates on a % based on how many votes won rather than a winner take all primary. In other words Obama layed the game as written in the rules better than her. No ifs, ands or buts. He beat her at the game as written by the Democratic rules. So Chaya why don't use and other Hillary supporters accept this and get on the freaking train before you let this country be ruled by another 4 years of GOP rule. I guarantee you this if you ARE A DEMOCRAT? McCain will screw you more than Obama would ever even think of screwing you!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

tjirish34 — Fri, 09 May 2008 06:44:05 GMT

I apologize for typos in previous post. My keyboard low on battery. So I apologize. I am not an illiterate Obama supporter. LOL

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

collegevoter — Fri, 09 May 2008 08:27:59 GMT

Florida and Michigan do matter. Which is why the Obama campaign and the entire Michigan delegation (Carl Levin, Debbie Dengell and UAW President Ron Gettelfinger) managed to come to an agreement to seat the delegates 69-59 in Hillary Clinton's favor.

Hillary still refused.

She wants--GET THIS-- all of the delegates in Michigan. Yep that's right. Even though Obama's name wasn't even on the ballot and 40% of the voters SPECIFICALLY voted uncommitted to ensure she wouldn't get their vote under any circumstances, she still wants those too. It's clearly a front.

The point of this article is dead-on: She doesn't want this issue resolved. She can't. Because the minute it's resolved is the minute Hillary Clinton finally, inevitably, irretrevablly loses.

Seating both delegations will not be enough. At that point it will be clear, as it already is to all of us but the DNC is trying to hide, that she only remains in this to hurt Barack Obama. There can be no other point anymore.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

pissed-off — Fri, 09 May 2008 11:49:46 GMT

she's a big girl I guess she is just mad for what the Bill situation did to her chanceand want a woman revolution that's okay but it does not have anything to do with the 08 race or holding Senator Obama from claiming the prize at least support him he might just listen to you for you already have some congressional making up to do and iy not just POLITICS

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

tallimae1 — Fri, 09 May 2008 11:51:52 GMT

To tjirish34 I completely agree with you and yes I am a woman. Hillary supporters are delusional. Obama and Hillary basically are the same on the issues so why support someone who farther away from what you want. To do so is very "catty" and irrational.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

pissed-off — Fri, 09 May 2008 11:56:15 GMT

END THIS RACE NOW SO WE CAN GET READY TO DO BATTLE WITH THE REPUBLICANS AND ALL OF THE DEMOCRACTS SHOULD GET ON-BOARD IF NOT WE WILL DO IT WITHOUT YOU yes and by counting the people who already voted for Senator Obama we look pretty close already so if your are upset if he get's the nod get over it unless you have been liking the past 8 years stay home and we will still fight for you but their is going to be no hostage support situation for he has enough support from the contender's that dropped out yes TIME TO PICK A PRESIDENT"""""""""""""""

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

roanoke — Fri, 09 May 2008 12:25:31 GMT

Disagree! msnbc hammered Hillary this morning for mention "whites". She stated she had read a posting on the net and was referring to it. And what's wrong with mentioning "whites?" You talk about Latinos and blacks. It's time "whites" got equal treatment. Talking heads have been trying to throw the election to Obama--a freshman senator who likely will not do well against the Republican establishment. Obama is okay with the UN taxing us billions on top of what we pay now and wants the illegal immigration package which we pay for. And he doesn't want to count 2 states of voters who had nothing to do with some "rules". The voters were not informed and they voted in good faith. Shame on Obama. Is msnbc opposed to democracy too?

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

pissed-off — Fri, 09 May 2008 12:51:04 GMT

you know at least Obama campaigned in every state and as hard as he could, you (Hillary) and supporters yes you'll remmember she was say some of the smaller states like caucuses state don't really coun't and was saying endorsement don't really neither she thought all you and me owed her something that's her real cry you'll are not helping me without paying attention she has been burning voter bridges for a while and she was or would have said the same about FL.and MI. until she really knew she was in a losing position so spin it all you can us the one who voted for Obama were shocked at all her remarks you have the real elitist and to bragg upon uneducated and those and those without a college as to say you can or will say anything to those of us in that group you are very out of touch they are american;s to for i am one but did not vote for you cause I don't feel you and to say you are a civil right s understander you should have not let your camp indulge in that topic you should have sen it coming hey check BIG BOB JOHNSON OUT nowhere to be found in N.C. hey get out you did prove something in woman's lib and at least the next time you have all the sister's with you and if not you in 2012 one of you can come out stronger or at least not that far behind so regroup for if the women will ever run against the republican we would not want them to think all of the democractic women are going to vote for them then the men would have a leser choice for you have brought in great division in this whole party and it's part your responsibilty to start some of the healing process and you know Senator Obama and Mrs. Michele will be in your corner '''''

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Silverfox — Fri, 09 May 2008 12:56:11 GMT

I pleaded with the Dems to stand behind Hillary from the very beginning, I pleaded with them to do thorough research on bama's deep background and I pleaded with them to question just WHAT the "change" IS and IF they got an answer, which is dubious, then ask HOW the "change" would be accomplished. No one listened, of course. The Dems never do. They just like arguing and dreaming of Nirvana. Well...I shall plead no more. The Dems seem to have what they wanted all along...push another empty suit to the nomination at all costs and by any means possible. Cheer loudly while you can. You have, once again, blown a perfect chance at the White House. The only way bama will ever see the inside of the White House is if he is invited.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

pissed-off — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:01:19 GMT

Roanoke you'll have if you did not Senator Obama would have been rapped this thing up we all could see the race in the contenders yet most of the conversation came up from you side hey that were all of the polling really breaks down and plus she's beenplaying it hard ask Rendell,Bubba and the republican friends excuse me I mean enemies oh I forget anything that work's righrt hey she is going into WEST VIRGINIA AND KENTUCKY RIGHT good time to say it loud huh it' s still okay us Afro American's still for give people anyway just our upbringing from church hey all the outlet's hammered Obama too I di not hear from you on the channel 7 debate

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Disallusioned — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:03:12 GMT

Everyone that voted in this country should count. It should not be selectively picked and chosen. The system needs changed, get rid of superdelegates, make one national primary election day, possibly even consider just using popular vote. The current system promulgates excessive spending, limiting candidates only the very wealthy; instigates sleasy backroom "arm-twisting" for superdelegates; has entirely too much media influence of which news is not factually reported but is opinionated; and limits our choices of whom we can vote by early eliminations of the candidates.

Lets all insist this process be fixed, else our system of democracy may further stumble.

To those that want the race to end, shame on them. These contests have gone to the very end several times over the years, that is how our system works. If you want to live in a place where the peoples choices is not considered and the leaders are appointed, you should consider moving to the closest country with a dictatorship.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

McCain in '08 — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:05:48 GMT

Sounds reasonable to me, but then, when was politics ever based on reason?

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

NowYardoKnowsBest — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:06:06 GMT

Mr Romano....You have an interesting piece here. But I'll demonstrate where it falls short.

First, remember...The Clintons will go for anything they can conjor up. How does the popular vote argument look according to your proposal?? I suspect that it will give the Clinton's enough light to push the argument that she then has the majority of the popular vote.

Secondly, what makes you think that if Obama gives Clinton Michigan acoording to you proposal, that she will insist that Obama does not get the so-called "Uncommited Michigan" delegates?? We can alll see her then arguing that "Uncommitted" does not equal "Obama".

The lesson we should learn from Clinton IS the lesson Obama has learned....Don't give them an inch, because they'll certainly take the mile.

Thank You

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

delius1967 — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:21:27 GMT

I didn't think it was possible, but HRC is a bigger sleazeball than her husband. Her shameless grab for the MI and FL delegates makes me sick. Just ask yourself this question: if the situation was reversed, and Obama had "won" those states but trailed in the overall count, do you think that (a) he would have flip-flopped and started arguing to seat them, and (b) she would be arguing just as strenuously that "the rules are the rules"?

The answer to (b) is, nothing could be more obviously true. Her talk of disenfranchisement and civil rights is disgusting, because she cares for neither; she only wants to win. There is no way she would be taking the position she is if it didn't help her.

The answer to (a) is not clear. I actually think Obama might not flip-flop. It's an extraordinary thing, I actually believe that he is a person of principle, who wouldn't lie, cheat, and steal even if that was the only way for him to win. That alone makes him possibly unique amongst politicians at the national level, and certainly in this race. I am a life-long conservative, and have never voted Democratic, not once; but if Obama is at the top of the ticket I will vote for him. I've grown so inured to the mud-slinging nature of politics that it doesn't even register anymore, but any candidate who refuses to wallow in the mire with HRC has my vote. That is real character.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

polguy — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:22:56 GMT

I am always amazed with the Clintons. Somehow, their sense of entitlement grows as it becomes clearer that Obama is going to win this. I am not sure what region they live in but it is somewhere near the State Of Denial. I want the Rebublicans out of the White House as much as anyone but I also want, finally, for the Clintons to shuffle off the national stage and realize - She can't win the White House and most people want to see in a change in the candidates that have been on stage for so long. Most people do not like rules changed in the middle of the game as Romano points out in the article. And most people can really see Hillary for what she is - a grasping politician who is willing to say anything ( gas tax reduction which see knows cannot happen in the next three months ) as an example. Her and Bill share at least one trait in common - A total absence of shame.

Thanks.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Crush — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:24:04 GMT

The only real solution is to penalize both states for moving their primaries, say reduce their delagates by 25% and then split the remaining 75% equally between both candidates and that's the end of it.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Crush — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:25:10 GMT

The only real solution is to penalize both states for moving their primaries, say reduce their delegates by 25% and then split the remaining 75% equally between both candidates and that's the end of it.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

geniepocket2 — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:26:31 GMT

Beware. Hillary will not rest until she breaks every conceivable rule her way. In my opinion, a new vote would have to be allowed (and paid for). Perhaps Hillary can lend Michigan and FL the money to do that! Obama may very well take the high road, but if he does she will no doubt use that against him immediately by saying he's a wimp, and he'll cave in to the republicans, just as he did to her. She knows no bounds when it comes to manipulation and underhanded tactics. Bill seems to be a good partner in that matter. She gives a bad name to politicians, and that is saying something!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Mariann Pepitone — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:50:21 GMT

If MI and FL are not seated all the voters in both states should decide not to vote at all in the general election. Hillary should get 73 delegates for MI alone. They want to agree on 69 - 59 which is wrong. Obama should not get 59 delegates but the DNC are supporters of him and they don't want Hillary to win the nomination. It all pertains to jealousy over the Clinton's and to make sure they are not in the white house again. Jealousy is like a disease and hate is even worse. I am hoping McCain wins in the general election if Hillary doesn't win the nomination to bring our country back to normal. We don't don't need another disaster like we have.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

BC66 — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:54:26 GMT

Who is the real elitist ? HRC is vowing to fight and stay on is clearly showing she's a sour, bad loser because this nomination was in her pocket before all this. She lost it because she is so proud

and prime looking at herself. Now that it is drifting away makes her has no choice but to fight on hoping to gain some sympathy and a change of hearts from the DNC to include MI and FL. She and her husband Bill has set a record in politic spinning, getting around the rules and regulations and giving new meaning of mis-speak among other famous quote " I did not have "

They were so sure of this nomination that they are now frustrated and angry because of losing among other factors of race and gender.

Yes, she and Bill will bend every rules and I am not surprised at all that she will appeal to the Supreme Court to issue a ruling in favor of her agruments that she is the best candidate and that the DNC is wrong and unfairly stripped her of the nomination.

At the end they will blame the media for the lack of support which is what they have done to themselves by all that news spinning and this time the table has turned.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

News and Notes — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:54:29 GMT

Florida and Michigan definitely matter. The DNC stripped them of their delegates and Obama has worked tirelessly to ensure that, contrary to the spirit of the constitution, voters there would not participate in the nominating process. Obama would have been pleading for a revote had he been winning in those states. You can go on and on about rules, but the bottom line is Hillary supporters in Florida are LIVID. They feel the election has been stolen from them, and Obama WILL lose Florida in November. Who ever thought a democratic candidate would be fighting NOT to count votes? For someone who pretends to be a uniter, he is a very divisive candidate

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Mariann Pepitone — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:57:40 GMT

If Hillary gives a bad name to the political field it can't be any worse than what Obama brought with his close ties to Rezko, Wright, Farrakhan, Ayers the underground bomber of this country. Hillary and McCain don't chose relationships with people like that and Obama should have known better since he was a Harvard graduate. There never has been a candidate with that reputation running for office in this country. I thnk McCain will win the general election if Hillary doesn't win the nomination and Hillary's voters would swing to McCain no matter is she campaigns for Obama. That would be the good news because McCain has the capabilites to be president and the knowledge to handle world leaders. Hamas and Al Qaeda would be dancing in the streets because they know they can deal with Obama. Not so with Hillary or McCain, even Bush knows better.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

ckwan4 — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:59:53 GMT

Mr. Author:

You have a lot of valid points in this article except that you miss the most important one.

That is, a lot of these superdelegates are still uncomfortable with Obama and that is the reason why they are not coming out to close the deal.

One thing that we know quite sure is that if Clinton runs against McCain in November, even if she loses, she is not going to lose by a landslide. Obama is a big unknown. He might win but he could also lose 50 states if he cannot win the white votes.

If Clinton's theory is correct, that is Obama is unelectable, and if she takes the fight to the very end and force all the superdelegates to take a stance and if they nominate Obama and Obama loses 50 states in November, they are going to be blamed for taking down the party for many years to come. Some of them like Mr. Kerry and Mr. Kennedy might even be jeopardising their political careers.

If you allow the pledged-delegate count to run as close as 2059-2004, many superdelegates would find an excuse to jump on board with Clinton and even many Obama supporters would find an excuse to switch back to Clinton. Remember that superdelegates can change their minds any time. Some of them have already done so by switching support from Clinton to Obama.

The Clinton campaign has always said that their objective is to bring the pledged-delegate difference down to below 100 so that the superdelegates would have enough justification to vote for their candidate while considering the issue of electabilty. Therefore, the Obama campaign would be committing suicide if they take your proposal.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

indystacey — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:02:28 GMT

This notion that FL and MI voters should not vote in the General Election to protest if their delegates are not seated is so childish. They would be punishing themselves, not the candidate or the party or the idiots who disregarded the DNC rules. I hope a solution that is fair to all parties can be reached, but if not, grow up, get over it and vote.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Mariann Pepitone — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:03:49 GMT

You are so right. If Obama was not leading he definately would want MI and FL seated so he could get caught up on delegates. But he really don't want them to be seated so she can stay behind. And I blame Dean and Reid who are both Obama supporters for that. Dean and Reid are very arrogant people and are both underhanded. I don't know how Dean became chairman of the DNC. He needs to go along with Reid. I give credit to Nancy Pelosi when she said the race is not over until all the primaries are over. The voters have the right to vote for the candidate of their choice. I also believed Hillary got railroaded in Indiana by the mayor of Lake County. How could she go from 58,000 to 18,000. Thousands of her votes had to be destroyed somehow.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

ozarkajuice — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:06:18 GMT

Got to love HIllary and her fans. I guess they feeling being a hypocrite is A OK these days. Sorry, but if HIllary agreed with Obama and Edwards not to seat Florida or Mich , then why should we allow her to go back on her words.

I guess FLipping FLopping accepted with Hillary fans. talk about a bunch of hypocrites.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

apolemic — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:06:30 GMT

I am sick of listening to HRC decide which states count and which don't. How is she in a position to make demands now, anyway? If she had any real concern for seating the FL/MI delegates, she would have accepted the compromise. It's not like she has anything substantial to gain from holding out for 73 as opposed to 69 delegates. Stop indulging this 61-year-old brat.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

15R8 — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:08:27 GMT

VERY INTERESTING

WAIT UNTIL THE PRIMARY SEASON ENDS THEN COUNT THE TWO STATES

THE PRICE THEY PAID WILL BE IRRELEVANCE

THAT WOULD BE A POWERFULL SHOT ACROSS THE BOW OF ANY OTHER STATES LOOKING TO HOP AHEAD

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Mariann Pepitone — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:09:08 GMT

You are deadly wrong. Michigan and Florida should count because those voters are being neglected if they don't. The DNC had no business having control over the states and making the rules. Get a grip. Those voters should count and if they don't vote in the general election I don't blame them. You must be an Obama supporter because he doesn't care one way or another but if the shoe was on the other foot believe me he would be demanding it. Of course the voters have a right to protest. Where have you been? If Obama wins the nomination he will need both states to win plus the battleground states that he hasn't won and may not win in the general election.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

News and Notes — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:13:19 GMT

Here is a theory. It may very well have started in late 2004 after Kerry lost. Kerry may have approached Obama, knowing he was a smooth talking radical liberal, and encouraged him to run in 2008 to take on Hillary. Then Kerry got Kennedy, Dean, and a few other powerful left wing snobs on board. After Bush got re-elected in 2004 it appeared the radical right wing had taken the Republican party hostage. After this primary season it appears the radical left wing has taken our Democratic party hostage.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

kcwisconsin — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:14:34 GMT

Its disappointed to see a democratic primary run like a republican one, where spin is the name of the game. The clinton campaign wanting to count Michigan and Florida is like an olympic athelete who has been disqualified for drugs asking the olyimpic committee to allow drugs even though the rules prohibit it.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

cnn357 — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:15:27 GMT

I understand Clinton's frustration in this matter. She is losing votes on a technicality and thats gotta hurt. But, she agreed. Too bad she is so "bitter" (no pun intended) Obama needs her, and she is very important to the party. I would be very didapointed if I didnt see them working closely in 2009

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Mariann Pepitone — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:16:02 GMT

When you are critizing a 61 year old, how old is your mother and if she is not that age yet you better hope she lives as long as Hillary. I would never make remarks about a person's age and I thank got that I am still alive in the morning. Obama would be raising the roof if he wasn't in the lead and MI and FL were not seated. If fact, he would demand it and the DNC would have not trouble giving in to him. But because they don't like Hillary they are taking their time. The DNC should run the rules like the Republican's do and we would not be in this mess. But we have a bunch of idiot's making the rules.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Mariann Pepitone — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:23:27 GMT

Andrew Romano is a strong Obama supporter and would like to see Hillary out of the race like the NYT does. But a nominee cannot be chosen until all primaries are finished. I definately agree with Nancy Pelosi. She infally spoke up. After all the primaries end, then the counting begins to see what candidate has the most delegates and won the popular votes. All the commentors stating that Hillary should drop out is idiotic when there are still primaries to be held. And there are numerous superdelegates that have not committed their votes yet. So we don't really know what is going to happen. If Hillary wins in WVA, KY and Puerto Rico, then the MI and FL are seated that brings her up to par. But both will not have enough to win the nomination so it will still be up to the superdelegates to nominate one of them.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Mariann Pepitone — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:27:35 GMT

The democratic should know better than to have rules like they do. The winner should take all like the republicans have and there would be no mess but like I said before it takes an idiot to make rules like that. Dean and Reid should both step down and some one with common sense should replace them. There should be no room for hate and jealousy in elections as there is in the democratic campaign. I believe Bill Clinton to be one of the best president's this country had and it will take another Clinton to clean up the white house.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Silverfox — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:32:36 GMT

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re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

denmill — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:45:29 GMT

I can guarantee you if it was the other way around that Obama need these votes to win and they did not count Florida and Michigan, the race game would be played. Suddenly all the Liberal media that once used to be Clinton, but now Obama's supporters would call foul play all over the news. Obam is a con artist and was willing to place his bet, because he knew that he could play the race card if things went sour. Remember, he is protected under the "AFFIRMATIVE of ACTION"

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

pmoore03 — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:45:46 GMT

If IGNORANCE is bliss, he two o you should be in heaven!!!!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

denmill — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:52:42 GMT

By the way has anybody heard of Obama's Vodoo connection. I hyave heard it from a lady from Louisiana. Apparently, Obama's family members (father's side) who are born and raised in Africa have put Hillary under the spell and are ready to put the entire US under a spell. Watch out! There may be the devil among us when Obama makes it to the White House. Check the internet! It may be a rumor, but I found it very interesting.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

pmoore03 — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:59:03 GMT

The RACECARD was introduced into this campaign by Bill CLINTON. Obama has yet to say anything derogatory about the race issue. The CON -ARTISTS in this campaign are the Clinon themselves and some of their supporters. Those who spout VENOM about Obama when they have NO FACTS to prove what they are saying and who are only out to convince other people who are as UNINFORMED as they are or who are too lazy to fact find.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

C. MacLean — Fri, 09 May 2008 15:05:40 GMT

Romano, you are right about the math, but so wrong about these two states not mattering; come November, they will matter a lot.

Even though the democratic leadership (and I use the term loosely) of Florida and Michigan broke the "rules," it is the PEOPLE of those states who are paying the price.

And rest assured, the PEOPLE of Florida and Michigan will be voting come November.

Both conventions need to be seated, and the announcement needs to come now, before any more damage is done. Obama doesn't have to go along with it to appease Hilary Clinton, he has to go along with it to appease democrats. Letting Florida and Michigan go republican is NOT acceptable

And in December, after the national election, the Democratic National Committe needs new leadership, and a new direction. Preferrably forward.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

quix0te — Fri, 09 May 2008 15:23:16 GMT

This is water under the bridge but since I happen to live in Florida. Our democratic party couldn't get birds to fly with a cannon. The primary move was pretty much all our REPUBLICAN legislature. Also, what magical democratic energy flows from New Hampshire and Vermont that their primaries have the mandate of heaven? Both Florida and Michigan are purple states, and both are big. If the DNC's high-handedness alienates enough voters to drive down turnout, it could very well cost Obama the election.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

icecrystal1972 — Fri, 09 May 2008 15:23:50 GMT

I need to jump in here. First of all I am from Florida. Do I feel disenfranchised? No, not really because I know my vote will matter in the general election. I am all for a compromise on sitting the delegates from Florida. Neither one campaigned in the state, all candidates were on the ballot, it is what it is. However, I do have serious issues with the Clinton campaigns stance that she should get all of the delegates in Michigan. Why is that? What is the logic behind it? Everybody agreed to take their names off the ballot, yet she still kept her name on. How can anybody say that was a fair election? Even the most ardent of Hillary supporters can't really argue that point.

As far as all of the talk of voting for McCain. I truly hope that all this is just talk being in the heat of the moment. Trust me..I get it. The longer this thing goes on the more my head wants to explode. HOWEVER.......if you are going to vote for John McCain based soley on hurt feelings, then were you ever a true Democrat to begin with? This is not about who hurt whose feelings or who said something disparaging about the other...this is about ending the eight years of crap we have put up with under GW Bush. McCain has already said he is going to continue GW Policies on the war in IRaq and the tax cuts. His healthcare plan is laughable at best......We need to put aside our pettiness for the greater good of this country. WE DO NOT NEED FOUR MORE YEARS OF THE EIGHT YEARS WE JUST HAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

olderwiser — Fri, 09 May 2008 15:43:23 GMT

When I was a boy, we always gave girls any edge possible on the rules of the game because they were slow and weak and we would beat them anyway. There are these times when James Carville, for instance says that she has not two, but three testicles, the extra one he said was available for loan to Obama. So, the question is not whether to give Hillary the usual break because she is a girl, but instead, whether she is a female or not. If she is really a female, then I think that she should get all of those votes in the two states. If, on the other hand, she is really a person with three testicles, then I think that she has to forfeit at least a third of the votes in the two states because she is more of a man than her opponent. If we are going to break the rules, let's do it with some kind of reliable system. ?The testicular one will do. Once the rules don't count, you can do anything you want to.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

olderwiser — Fri, 09 May 2008 15:49:04 GMT

We loved the fickleness of girls. They would change with the wind. They were pretty, and that ability to change so quickly for their convenience gave us hope that they might even change some of those "no" answers to"yes". "Vive la change", so to speak.

So, being a very old man (you wouldn't believe how old) when I see Hillary change from "forget the Florida and Michigan votes", to "I want the Florida and Michigan votes", I know that Carville is dead wrong, and I have for a brief moment that thrill that I experienced back in those great and fun filled days, long ago. Hillary, I love you.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

olderwiser — Fri, 09 May 2008 15:54:27 GMT

We need a president like that. Instead of the one that we have now who is so stupid that he gives the president of Germany a rubdown in an international forum, we can have Hillary, who will drive Putin and Ahmadinejad nuts with her unpredictable decisions and their ability to change at any moment. They will be terrorized and unable to defy her. Besides, she is sexy.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

windrider2 — Fri, 09 May 2008 15:57:54 GMT

I find it astounding that despite the FACTS, despite the TRUTH that Michigan and Florida both deliberately flaunted the DNC rules and thereby threw away their chance to have their delegates seated, Clinton supporters insist that it is somehow Obama's fault. This goes waaaaaaaaaaay beyond simply being "less educated" and therefore less schooled in fundamentals of logical thought and deductive reasoning. This is being outright delusional, to insist upon an explanation that is patently false, and to pile other false statements on top of it, all for the purpose of trash talking Obama and glorifying Clinton.

I suppose you Clinton supporters wouldn't have any problem with not enforcing the rules in your own home either. Say you tell your son that he can't go out drinking until he turns 21, that he has to wait a couple of weeks, and you tell him if he does, you will ground him, take away his keys and he will not get to go out on his 21st birthday. Your son flips you off and proceeds to go out drinking anyway. By your own logic, you should simply shrug, say "never mind" and hand him the keys as if nothing happened. That's what you're saying the DNC should do with Michigan and Florida this year, and with any states in future elections who decide to bump up their primaries. By your reasoning, we could be voting in primaries being held a year or more ahead of the presidential election.

It's interesting to note that the GOP sanctioned MI and FL too, for the same reason as the DNC, and three other states besides (although they are simply penalizing those states half their delegates, not all of them). You don't hear the residents of those states whining about enforcement of the rules, disenfranchisement, yada yada yada.

This mindset just reinforces the stereotype of Democrats being too weak to enforce their own rules, much less enforce the laws of the land. And you wonder why we keep losing elections. Thanks for doing your very best to help us lose another one because you simply cannot accept the outcome of the elections nor play by the rules which govern them.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

olderwiser — Fri, 09 May 2008 15:58:28 GMT

I will never again say, "screw the government". There is no way that I will say something so scurrilous about the candidate that I love. Government has a whole new meaning to me now, and I am confident that will Hillary in office, we can always know that if things get tough, she will change it often enough so as not to hurt us. Our momma. What's for supper?

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Saltydog_0 — Fri, 09 May 2008 16:19:08 GMT

It's kinda sad to watch Clinton continue to pursue what everybody except her knows to be a hopeless quest. Where we once questioned her honesty and integrity (something to which all candidates are subjected), we now are left questioning her sanity. One gets the impression that she will continue to yell "Onward to the White House!" while being carted off in a straight jacket by the DNC.

We once argued with ther when she would come up with new math, new rules and new excuses for continuing with this divisive campaign. Now we stand silent and watch with pity as she casts about desperately for a sympathetic ear, crying "Wait! Wait! Don't go! Please listen to me! I'm supposed to be the first woman president! It's my destineeeeeee. . . . "

Sad. So sad.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

olderwiser — Fri, 09 May 2008 16:56:54 GMT

I let her off the hook on the bullets in Bosnia. She was just scared, and when you are scared, things seem different to you. They had just done one of those "jet entries" landings where you don't glide in for a few miles in a slowly descending path. Instead they came down from great altitude in tight circles and landed forthwith, so as to cut the chances for sniping on the approach. This might have set her up for expecting bullets. Bill should have been there to lend her some bravado. He'll be there, though, to help while she runs the country. She will take care of things out front and he will supervise the secretarial pool.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

olderwiser — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:01:22 GMT

Carville, I sure wish you had not said that thing about Hillary's testicles. Every time I sit back and try to fantasize about her, that gets in the way. I'm about to cancel that prescription for Viagra. Just can't hack that combination of girlish beauty hiding a set of those totally misplaced jewels.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

thirdroute — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:03:30 GMT

If she gets into office and runs the country like she runs her campaign, I don't see how that would be different from what Bush is doing now. She's going to do what she thinks should happen despite the facts. She's a looney.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

icecrystal1972 — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:11:42 GMT

One more thing I want some of the Hillary supporters out there to set me straight on.....the facts in this article about her stance (just last year) on Michigan and Florida not counting, now that she needs those votes, she has played the disenfranchisment card?????? I want to know...from her loyal, die hard supporters, how can you explain to me the reasoning behind her change of heart about these voters, other than the argument she is pursuing now??????? Because her or her campaign sure werent' concerned last year about the voters in MI and FL being disenfranchised.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Silverfox — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:11:57 GMT

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re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

dunnot — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:15:25 GMT

I beg to disagree with you for this few reasons and many more space will not allow me to write..

1. Why is she entitled to her argument when she signed to commit to the contrary?

2. Why would she honor any agreement that will not ensure her nomination?

3. If she nor her campaign can be trusted to abide by their earlier committments to the rules, then what quality does she have to be a president?

4. The greatest service to mankind is submission to agreed and established rules. Is she fails to submit herself and her campaign to the rules they agreed to abide to, automatically she is not fit to serve ?

5. Just for the sake of arguement that she is granted her wishes and elected the American President, what moral ground would she have to confront foreign goevernments where "arrangements' are made to keep a particular person in power e.g, Russia, Zimbabwe?

6.DNC overturning their established rules will further confirm to critics that the Democratic party is a party of "whimps"? Can you imagine this debate going so long in the GOP?

7.If the reverse was the case, would anybody take Obama seriously?

8. What message is the democratic party sending to those newly revived interests looking forward to a vigorous campaign of change?

9.If all said and done she was to win the nomination, is it fair that she should reap from Obama's donors (who have overwhemingly surpassed Hillary's donors) heading into the November campaign?

10.This a very flawed position that Obama should not even contemplate to accept. It does no way demonstrate his magnanimity but rather foolishness. Arguably, the DNC should scrap the remaining contests and allot delegates to each one of them based on recent public polls, sounds irrational?

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

dunnot — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:20:21 GMT

If Hillary wants Michigan and Florida, she should stop campaiging in W.Virginia and other states remaining and let's just allocate the delegates based on recent polls. Makes more sense, right?

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

icecrystal1972 — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:23:09 GMT

dunnot - very nicely said. You won't get a single Hillary supporter on here to answer your or my questions about this because there is NO legitimate argument for her or her campaign to make at this point about this issue than "hey, we need those votes/delegates because we are behind" That is the reality of this, that is the reality her supporters are refusing to admit. It gets hidden behind the buzz word of the day "disenfranchisment" and of course it's a "civil rights issue". Again, I invite any Hillary supporter on here to set me straight.To enlighten me, if you will about this issue.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Mimi13 — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:36:00 GMT

I'm a Florida Democrat. I knew the rules when I cast my vote in the primary. I know who created this mess -- our legislature of clowns and cowards. I blame no one else, although I do think the DNC needs to do something sane with the primary system. I assume Hillary Clinton also knew the rules. I have taught my children to abide by rules in sports and games. I have cautioned them since early childhood not be be sore losers. How can I expect less from a presidential candidate than I expect from a 5-year-old. Further, the postion of the Clinton camp seems to be: Count all the votes -- then, Superdelegate, overturn them. Even with the votes of Michigan and Florida, Clinton cannot win -- unless the Superdelgatges ignore the cast votes of all the country. What kind of position is that? It sounds more like one of the totalitarian regimes this country ususally rails against than the democracy founded by Adams, Madison and Jefferson. I am embarrassed and ashamed for Hilary Clinton. In years to come, I suspect she, too, will be embarassed by her recent behavior. But it is time for Bubba and his Bubbette to leave the stage. Their era is over.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

powin — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:42:59 GMT

Newsweek's non-stop fanfare of Obama is a punch line and a complete edifice of transparency -- it's paean to the powerful renders little, if any, semblance of journalistic integrity. As Noam Chomsky wrote, "Voter attention is focused on style, personality, charisma — anything but the issues that are of primary concern to the concentrated private power centers that largely finance campaigns and run the government. Media news people are able to convince themselves that they choose and interpret the news "objectively" and on the basis of professional news values" (Noam Chomsky, Massachusetts Institute of Technology).

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

powin — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:43:27 GMT

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

lexdiamonds0730 — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:43:56 GMT

To citron16, you are so good at attaching names to Obama. How about recognizing that Bill AND HILLARY worked for James Fulbright and he serverd as a politcal mentor for them from the late 1960s until his death in 1995. The same man who opposed integration of schools and voted against civl rights. Or how about the fact that when her husband was in the EXACT SAME predicament that Obama is in right now with "middle class working americans", Hillary said, "Screw em' you don't need them. What have they done for you anyway"? What about Norman Hsu who was a major fundraiser for Clinton? He was indicted last year. Clinton was said to have returned the money JUST AS OBAMA RETURNED REZKO'S MONEY but you make no mention of that. I'm simply saying that you guys gotta stop with this guilt by association thing. Republicans tried this same thing on her husband in 1992. I am an Obama supporter, but if Clinton wins I will vote for her. The thing that kills me about you Hillary supporters though is how evil and condescending so many of you seem to be. Seemingly very much like Hillary herself now that the curtain is being peeled back.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

powin — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:45:38 GMT

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

powin — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:46:19 GMT

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

powin — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:46:34 GMT

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

powin — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:47:26 GMT

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

AfricanPride — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:49:46 GMT

Yes RULES are RULES. But the SAME DNC RULES allow for a reschedule and a revote to reinstate stripped delegates at a later date. Delegate counting is not permitted BEFORE certain scheduled primaries but totally acceptable through a revote anytime thereafter. Even if FL and MI Dem leaders broke the RULES, why is Obama punishing and disenfranchising VOTERS who are totally innocent VICTIMS in this? Moreover, as Dean said, the RULES only apply to rejecting the DELEGATE COUNT but say nothing about discarding the POPULAR VOTE COUNT. It is CERTAIN that DNC RULES were broken, but REALITY and ACTUALITY remains that 1.2 Million voters cast their ballots for Clinton and against Obama. Nothing can change the VERACITY of that fact.

The Constitution permits all citizens including DISENFRANCHISED VOTERS to redress their grievances. But a proposed remedy to revote in June was rejected by Obama while ignoring and breaking DNC RULES that permit a revote. So Clinton has every right to renege on the deal not to count FL and MI delegates since Obama snubbed a revote. By refusing to admit that extra 1.2 Million voters were against him, Obama is like knowingly measuring with a ruler that bears faulty markings, but using it anyway because it's the most convenient for Obama. In 2000, it only took a little over 200 FL votes for the Supreme Court to declare Bush a winner over Gore. How can Obama throw away 2 Million voters from FL/MI and expect to win come November?

The predicament is that Dems made this primary all about Obama and not the voters.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

icecrystal1972 — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:52:09 GMT

There hasn't been a single Hillary supporter answering the questions of this article. This article is not about Obama's electability....it's about the real reason why she wants the delegates sat when just last year, her opinion was completely opposite? CAN NOT A SINGLE SUPPORTER FOR HER PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION INSTEAD OF BRINGING UP ISSUES WHOLELY UNRELATED TO THE POINTS BROUGHT FORTH IN THIS ARTICLE?

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

icecrystal1972 — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:54:24 GMT

NO, the boneheaded Republican legislators in our great state of Florida disenfranchised the voters. Not Obama, not the DNC. THE CANDIDATES KNEW THE RULES BEFORE THE PRIMARIES OCCURRED. JUST LAST YEAR HILLARY WAS ON THE RECORD STATING "THE VOTES IN THOSE STATES WON'T MATTER" AND EVEN SAID FLORIDA WAS NOTHING MORE THAN A BEAUTY PAGENT. SO DON'T GIVE ME THE DISENFRACHISMENT ARGUMENT. THE REAL REASON THE HILLARY CAMP WANTS THEM SAT IS BECAUSE SHE NEEDS THE NUMBERS. PLEASE ADMIT THAT AND LETS CLEAR AWAY THE BS

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

ckwan4 — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:56:49 GMT

"Posted By: Saltydog_0 (May 9, 2008 at 12:19 PM)

Sad. So sad."

The only thing that is sad about all this is there are a lot of people like you who are just too simple-minded to understand a complicated issue like this.

The only rule that counts right now is the rule that the superdelegates will decide the nomination. They can vote any way they want. They are not bounded by law to vote based on the pledged-delegate math or any math you want them to use.

If Clinton really believes that Obama is unelectable, she has every reason to press on to tell it to the superdelegates until they reject her argument. This has not happened so far.

If in the end, the superdelegates reject her argument and nominate Obama and Obama ends up losing 50 states in Novemeber, Clinton would be in a good position to run again in 2012 and she can also tell the Democratic Party, "See, I told you so".

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

rangerjoe — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:57:46 GMT

It’s ludicrous to suggest that Senator Obama should agree to any change in the rules. It seems like any time a Black man gets ahead in the game, the rules are changed. If the DNC changes the rules in ANY kind of way and counts the Florida and Michigan votes and this facilitates giving enough superdelegates the reason to jump over to her side to give her the nomination, I will not vote for Senator Clinton even if she gave Senator Obama the Vice-Presidential slot. Play by the rules DNC or you’ll have a blackout in November.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

rangerjoe — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:59:22 GMT

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Mimi13 — Fri, 09 May 2008 18:10:50 GMT

AfricanPride -- Where was there an agreement to re-vote that Obama challenged? Not in Florida. I live here -- I know the legislature had no intention of doing a re-vote. The mail vote that was so bandied about was never a reality because state law would not allow access to voter rolls to conduct what would be a private election (not sponsored by the state legislature). I never heard anything about the Michigan legislature agreeing to a re-vote. The whole issue of a re-do on those states primary elections was nothing more than a red herring, a pipe dream, with no substance behind it. Don't blame Obama. It is the state legislatures of Florida and Michigan who created this mess. They wanted to matter, so they jumped the line. Now they matter -- but not in a good way. Besides. The math holds that even with Michigan and Florida, Clinton cannot win. So her position is essentially: Count Michigan and Florida -- then, Superdelegates, ignore ALL the votes of ALL the states and give me the nomination because I really, really want it.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

austria2 — Fri, 09 May 2008 18:22:56 GMT

Sure, the rule rules! Democrats in Florida and Michigan are ruled by the rules of their primary election. But will their rules rule them come November general election? Do these rules prohibit them from voting for McCain? On November, a new rule rules : I have the power to choose my candidate and it will count! I have the power to vote for Republican and not a Democrat. This time, I am the rule, not the party's. Payback time. Good luck.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

cuppa jo — Fri, 09 May 2008 18:28:46 GMT

WHat a bunch of whiny babies....let the delegates count! The 40 uncommitted from MI should be able to make their own decisions on who they want to vote for.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

msc2116 — Fri, 09 May 2008 18:41:59 GMT

Generally I agree that this option would not hurt Obama in the long run and could possibly gain him some new support...but let's not forget who we are dealing with here. First of all if you listen to how the Clinton people describe the Michigan vote they are actually insisting that Obama receive NOTHING in the way of delegate because his name was not on the ballot. I have heard repeated reference to the "votes as they were cast" which leaves Barack off the table. Obviously this would be unacceptable. While he would still lead in delegates with this calculation the simple fact is that the numbers would be too close for comfort; the whole point as far as Clinton is concerned is to get the numbers close enough for her to beg, borrow and steal her way to the nomination. I hate to admit it but there are undoubtably superdelegates who would prefer to choose Hillary if the numbers were close enough for them to feel safe in selecting her as the nominee. There is no guarantee that Obama would be rewarded for his generosity; he might very well be played as a sucker and lose the whole thing.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

mhull1 — Fri, 09 May 2008 18:56:10 GMT

Clinton - what a sleeze.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

wyl5326 — Fri, 09 May 2008 19:31:34 GMT

Hill's last card is trying to instill fear among all Democrats on Barack's

ultimate nomination by raising the race card now herself. Rue on her for

finally succumbing to the cowardly act despite her vaunted fighting spirit. I

hope that WV will turn her down by voting overwhelmingly for Barack and finally

kick her big butt into political oblivion. Knowing the sleaziness of the

Clintons, Hill should be ruled out for the VP position as they could easily

engineer the physical elimination of Barack.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Lococope — Fri, 09 May 2008 19:34:16 GMT

While I agree that it would be a good thing for Obama to offer the "olive branch" to Senator Clinton, I think he must be very careful. He must be absolutely guaranteed that he could not lose the nomination by doing so. If there is anyone out there who is cagey enough and dishonest enough to steal this election from Senator Obama, it is the Clinton crew. I don't trust them or their minions for a second. If more of the super-delegates would declare now, then Obama would have more flexibility to offer a larger olive branch.

Be careful.

Lowell Copeland, New York,

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

wyl5326 — Fri, 09 May 2008 19:34:32 GMT

Hill's continued campaign illustrate the bunker mentality that Hitler might

have when he was at his bunker towards the end of WW II. I wonder how long

she'll have to suffer from the illusion of grandeur in a Clinton restoration.

What I'm afraid is the pressure on Barack to offer the VP slot to her which

would provide a way for her return to the WH. A lot of people associated with

the Clintons have suffered sudden death going back to decades in association.

Hill should have seen how prescient she was when she urged people to bet on

a filly in Kentucky that ended in tragedy before her recent debacle last

Tuesday. Unfortunately for her, she is no clairvoyant as Vlad described her as

someone without head ! If 41 is someone as born with silver foot in his mouth,

Hill must have been born without head to be able to think clearly. Hill's

willingness to spent her fortune on her failing campaign is not a sign of

smartness, but blind ambition that knows no bound. With that, Hill should

probably now campaign with a new slogan - Bunker Hill.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

wyl5326 — Fri, 09 May 2008 19:43:28 GMT

Hill's continued insistence on counting the disqualified states is just her alibi for her continued campaign. She is using that battle cry to push for her own agenda, as she believes that the country owe her the presidency. The Clintons believed that they are the greatest legacy that the country can have and so owe them the presidency. If she really thinks so, why not let both of them debate me on a Lincoln-Douglas format and I'll whipped both their asses. They think so highly of themselves as if everybody else is inferior to them intellectually.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

wyl5326 — Fri, 09 May 2008 19:46:17 GMT

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

wyl5326 — Fri, 09 May 2008 20:31:01 GMT

Hill's smartness have been exaggerated by mediocre mind in justifying their

support for her. The story of how she bankrupted her campaign should remind us

of how we won the Cold War that led to the demise of the Soviet Union. How

could she fell to the same trap in waging her campaign that bankrupted her

campaign not once but twice ! Haven't she heard of the old saying, "Fool me

once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". With the way she managed her

campaign, who would trust her to be able to manage the entire country ?

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

News and Notes — Fri, 09 May 2008 20:36:13 GMT

Hillary supporters resent the insults and the snobbery Obama supporters are throwing at them. These types of insults will only benefit McCain in the long run. Obama supporters, contrary to their candidate's message, are being very divisive.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

News and Notes — Fri, 09 May 2008 20:36:45 GMT

Comparing Hillary to Hilter will ensure a democrat does not win in November

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Mimi13 — Fri, 09 May 2008 20:44:48 GMT

The best solution I've heard to the FLorida/Michigan mess is to allow the votes to stand since the voters are innocent of any wrong-doing and they voted in good faith. BUT . . . strip those states of their superdelegates, the party elite who made the mess. Makes sense to me.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

WillieGreen — Fri, 09 May 2008 21:07:48 GMT

Hillary has a large following. We won't vote for Obama regardless of any call from whoever to do so. Obama split this party NOT Hillary. Don't count on us to fall in like sheep, because we are not sheep. No Hillary, NO VOTE FOR DEMOCRAT!!!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

wyl5326 — Fri, 09 May 2008 21:21:31 GMT

Hill's aspersion against Barack with her argument that the Clintons have broad appeal to wide coalition of voters is fallacious at best if not another Fairy Tale when the fact that Bill never ever won his election by more than 49%. Bill in fact doesn't have a clear mandate from the voters who elected him twice. That alone should be enough to debunk Hill's point, lay waste to her personal ambition and greed for power. This are facts that nobody can deny and simply remembering how many lies they spin on any day should have insulated us from their machination. Unfortunately, lots of voters just got so used to their fantastic lies that most of us almost come to believe the sniper fire ! She haven't even apologize to Sinbad for the insult she heave on him and she acts as if we owe her the presidency for all their lies !

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Lochandkey — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:50:39 GMT

I agree with mimi13's opinion of the states Michigan and Florida. The "party" decided when to schedule the voting date and the public, most of whom were probably not aware that the potential loss of vote counts, went to the polls and let it be known what their choice was. I also think that if the DNC idiot Howard Dean continues with his asenine remarks (Hilary you need to quit the race - or - super delegates you need to make your choice by June 4, 2008), he needs to be kicked in the head and then kicked out of the party. He is more of a liability than a benefit. We as a great nation deserve to have the best person as President - - I personally don't care which candidate gets there as long as they focus their attention on US for a change.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

mobaxter — Sat, 10 May 2008 00:09:27 GMT

I am so tried of Florida and Michigan hearing about those rule breakers. They delegate should stay home.Hillary Clinton you are the blame for this mess continue on.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

mobaxter — Sat, 10 May 2008 00:13:01 GMT

Maybe all states should vote in the primary on the same day like he general election.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

lawpol — Sat, 10 May 2008 00:28:13 GMT

A few quibbles. It was the Florida state Reublican legislature and Governor who moved the primary up, not the state Democratic Party.

Second, the turnout was a record in Florida. There was no diminished trunout because the candidates didn't campaign. And the results would hold true today, as shown by the fact that McCain is up on Obama in Florida and way down against Hillary. Obama doesn't do well amoung the retired Jewish folks and hispanics in South Florida.

Nor would he do any better in Mi than he did in Ohio and Pennselyvania.

As to future contests,. Hillary will win huge in Kentucky, West Virginia and Puerto Rico. Maybe by 30-40 points in the first two. Puerto Rico has more delegates than Montana and North Dakota combines. It has the same as Oregon, as does Kentucky.

You've also forgotten the popular vote. If Fla and Mi count, and Obama gets the uncomitted Mi vote, she will lead in the popular vote on June 3, even if you estimate caucus votes.

But if Obama wants to be gracious, I think he should definitely give her those states and take his moderately premature victory lap.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

lawpol — Sat, 10 May 2008 00:29:37 GMT

A few quibbles. It was the Florida state Reublican legislature and Governor who moved the primary up, not the state Democratic Party.

Nor would he do any better in Mi than he did in Ohio and Pennselyvania.

You've also forgotten the popular vote. If Fla and Mi count, and Obama gets the uncomitted Mi vote, she will lead in the popular vote on June 3, even if you estimate caucus votes.

But if Obama wants to be gracious, I think he should definitely give her those states and take his moderately premature victory lap.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Omaar — Sat, 10 May 2008 02:08:28 GMT

Bill & Hillary Clinton should change her name to ..."Hussein" with all the Arab Money, the Clinton's have !!

I know which Arab Countries have the Clintons in their Front Pockets and it Aint... Obama !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gB

O137t79k

1. Saudi Arabia: 10 Million Per Year.

To my recollection, it was the Saudis who Piloted the (911 Planes) !!

Note: The Saudi Arabians Chair on the (500 Million $ Bill Clinton Library) Saudi Arabians Donate Millions to the Clinton Library as well !!

2 The United Arab Emirates: The Bill Clinton Dubai Ports Deal and Partnership, Still in effect and Bill & Hillarys Off Shore Cayman Island Accounts (Millions).

Note: It was also the United Arab Emirates, that Piloted The (911 Planes) as well !

Big Note: Hillary said on that (ABC News Debate) That she would not only Protect Israel..

She said she would also Protect Saudi Arabia & The United Arab Emirates...Too

The Clintons also get Millions from Qatar & Kuwait !

The Clinton are 1st an Foremost Capitalist, their Political Persuasion & Religion do not Matter and are of No Consequence or Importance..Getting PAID is the call of the Day.

The Bush & Clinton Families are Vacationing Family Friends ! Does that not open your Eyes, to See, Political Titles Mean Nothing to a Pure & True Capitalist ?

Note: Politics are Identical to the WWE..Both Wrestlers play the part of the Good or Bad Guy, but Both Wrestlers are the Very Best of Friends Before & After their Act !!

If Your White and Recieve Arab Milllions..its Alright !

Hypocrisy !

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Omaar — Sat, 10 May 2008 02:09:19 GMT

Bill & Hill

Bill: Well Hillary, I campaigned throughout Rural White, Confederate Flag Waving, Southern Fed & Southern Bred, NASCAR WEEKEND, Robert E. Lee, Counties, throughout North Carolina...

Chelsea Campaigned throughout the Various North Carolina Colleges...

You Traveled Throughout the (NC Region) for the past 2 weeks and Lied like a Natural Clinton does and...

We had our Natural Lying, Scheming & Decieving A$$''s Handed to Us !!!

I Guess those Johnny Rebs, Country Bumpkins have Access to the World Wide Web and pulled one Over on us...

Huh ..Hun

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Omaar — Sat, 10 May 2008 02:09:58 GMT

Bill & Hill

Hillary: Bill, I thought John Gatti was Teflon...

But Barack Obama is ....Platinum Plus !!!

Bill: Hillary lets invite the Obamas Over, for a Night Cap...What about it ..Hun

Hillary: Bill, You're reading My Mind...Baby

Bill: I got Michelle on Speed Dial !!!

Hillary: I got that ''Hot Barack'' in My Fave 5 !!!

Bill & Hillary: Were gonna make this Night a D@mn Night to Remember !!

Bill: Just Like Ole Times ...Hun...

Just Like Ole Times !!!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Omaar — Sat, 10 May 2008 02:11:26 GMT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gBO137t79k

Bill & Hillary Clinton should change her name to ..."Hussein" with all the Arab Money, the Clinton's have !!

I know which Arab Countries have the Clintons in their Front Pockets and it Aint... Obama !!

1. Saudi Arabia: 10 Million Per Year.

To my recollection, it was the Saudis who Piloted the (911 Planes) !!

Note: The Saudi Arabians Chair on the (500 Million $ Bill Clinton Library) Saudi Arabians Donate Millions to the Clinton Library as well !!

2 The United Arab Emirates: The Bill Clinton Dubai Ports Deal and Partnership, Still in effect and Bill & Hillarys Off Shore Cayman Island Accounts (Millions).

Note: It was also the United Arab Emirates, that Piloted The (911 Planes) as well !

Big Note: Hillary said on that (ABC News Debate) That she would not only Protect Israel..

She said she would also Protect Saudi Arabia & The United Arab Emirates...Too

The Clintons also get Millions from Qatar & Kuwait !

The Clinton are 1st an Foremost Capitalist, their Political Persuasion & Religion do not Matter and are of No Consequence or Importance..Getting PAID is the call of the Day.

The Bush & Clinton Families are Vacationing Family Friends ! Does that not open your Eyes, to See, Political Titles Mean Nothing to a Pure & True Capitalist ?

Note: Politics are Identical to the WWE..Both Wrestlers play the part of the Good or Bad Guy, but Both Wrestlers are the Very Best of Friends Before & After their Act !!

If Your White and Recieve Arab Milllions..its Alright !

Hypocrisy !

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

lhrobi03@stlawu.edu — Sat, 10 May 2008 02:12:51 GMT

All you Hillary supporters seem to ignore the terrible negativity that Hillary has brought to this campaign, along with the multipe times she has been caught lying (she prefers misremembering) and inflated reports from her camp of her importance in her husband's presidency and other issues (i.e. her HUGE role in working on peace with the IRA).. She agreed to the rules, but they didn't work for her, so she's trying to change them, reminds me a bit too much of certain current President who likes to claim Executive Privilege and hide behind things like The Patriot Act when what he wants to do doesn't jibe with the laws of our country.. Obama has motivated an entirely new section of Americans.. People who would never vote, or haven't for decades, are turning out to support him. Worried about his lack of experience? It's called a Cabinet, and Advisors.. The most important thing for a president is integrity, and he has that in boatloads over EITHER of the Clintons.. If the Superdelegates ignore the popular vote in their decision it will be unforgiveable. Think of how terrible it was back in 2000 when Gore won the popular vote, only to have the Presidency stolen from him.. Every Democrat should want to avoid another situation like that.. Michigan and Florida's votes not counting? How about every other state?

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Omaar — Sat, 10 May 2008 02:13:15 GMT

Bill & Hillary Clinton should change her name to ..."Hussein" with all the Arab Money, the Clinton's have !!

I know which Arab Countries have the Clintons in their Front Pockets and it Aint... Obama !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gBO137t79k

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Mimi13 — Sat, 10 May 2008 02:14:52 GMT

It was the Florida state legislature that authorized the early primary -- both Democrats and Republicans. There were no "nay" votes. Part of the reason for the turnout was a property tax initiative. This was the reason why the Democrats did not want to come up with an alternative plan -- they knew the voters would turnout to vote on the tax plan. You're probably right that there would not be a significant difference in the vote if it were held today. Obama was not well-known at that time -- but Florida has problems with race relations. Rev. Wright would have had a impact. And the elderly New Yorkers in Miami most likely would be for Clinton, no matter who was running against her. There is no way to even guess what would have happened in Michigan, since Obama was not even on the ballot. I don't know if I buy your prognostication for the future, however. A lot of Clinton's support will slack off as people come to realize she has lost -- just as it did with Huckabee. And, I've not heard that the popular vote would be in her favor at the end of this process. There was some talk that the popular vote in Puerto Rico might boost her ahead in popular vote -- but is "She won Puerto Rico" really a rallying cry for a presidentiali candidate? I mean, I have nothing against Puerto Rico, but if its people want to pick the president of the United States, I think they should first join the union. Anyway, it's moot. It's delegates that decide the nomination just as it's electoral votes that decide the election. The nation's founders did not trust the people to directly elect a president -- so we are a representative democracy. Personally, I think this should change -- just not in the middle of an election.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

lhrobi03@stlawu.edu — Sat, 10 May 2008 02:26:06 GMT

Also, Hillary is doing nothing but tearing apart our party.... this needs to end

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

yellowdogdave — Sat, 10 May 2008 05:35:56 GMT

I just love to listen to the know it all Obama crowd!....I have never voted republican in my life (I have been voting since G Mcgovern in 72) and I won' t this year either, but I can tell all you Obama groupies ( a lot of whom will be long gone from the political process as soon as he is) that constantly berating clinton and her supporters isn't winning them over----if you want to put Penn/NJ/Ny/Mich in "play" and guarantee losing Ohio and Florida, just keep it up and see if putting Colorado in "play" makes up for it.

By the way, nobody cares if Guam moves it's primary to "Thanksgiving 2012"....since that would be AFTER the election in early November 2012. Keep up the great analysis, especially talking about having primaries after the election...but you Obama supporters know everything about everything , just like he does.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

lhrobi03@stlawu.edu — Sat, 10 May 2008 05:44:24 GMT

hey, yellow dog.. unless she wins the rest of the primaries by 20%, the only way she can win is if the Superdelegates vote against the will of the people... Very Democratic... That's a party I want to be a part of, one that doesn't listen to its peoples' voice... And be honest, we all know who started the berating movement in this election, and it sure as hell wasn't Obama

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Omaar — Sat, 10 May 2008 07:10:48 GMT

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Obama Picks Up 7 Superdelegates

Illinois Senator Has Almost Erased Clinton's Once-Imposing Lead Among Party Leaders

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WASHINGTON, May 9, 2008

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Barack Obama picked up the support of 7 superdelegates on Friday. (AP)

Obama's Superdelegate Win

Barack Obama picked up seven, high-profile delegates, nearly erasing Hillary Clinton's once-imposing lead among top-level Democrats. Jeff Greenfield reports. | Share/Embed

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(CBS/AP) Barack Obama has almost erased Hillary Rodham Clinton's once-imposing lead among national convention superdelegates on Friday and won fresh labor backing as elements of the Democratic Party began coalescing around the Illinois senator for the fall campaign.

According to the latest CBS News tally, Obama had the support of 270 superdelegates and Clinton had the support of 271. Overall, Obama has 1,857 delegates and Clinton has 1,690. (Click here for the full CBS News state-by-state tally.)

Obama picked up the support of 7 superdelegates today: Rep Mazie Hirono of Hawaii, Rep. Donald Payne of New Jersey, Rep. Pete Defazio of Oregon, Laurie Weahkee of New Mexico, Wilber Lee Jeffcoat of South Carolina, Ed Espinoza of California and John Gage of Maryland.

Payne, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus, had been a Clinton supporter.

"After careful consideration, I have reached the conclusion that Barack Obama can best bring about the change that our country so desperately wants and needs," said Payne, who in a statement said that Clinton is a good friend and he still holds her in high regard.

Payne is one of at least 10 superdelegates who have switched allegiances from Clinton to Obama. None have publicly switched the other way.

Gage is president of the American Federation of Government Employees, a union of 600,000 members who work in the federal and Washington, D.C., governments. The union also announced its support for Obama on Friday.

"Our people, I think, recognize the enthusiasm and vitality behind Senator Obama's campaign," Gage said in a statement.

Obama, who won a convincing victory in the North Carolina primary and lost Indiana narrowly on Tuesday, has been steadily gaining strength in the days since.

"I'm gratified that we've got some superdelegates who are coming our way. And I think we've got a strong case to make that I will be a nominee that can pull the party together and take on John McCain. Our focus has always been on the pledged delegates and just getting the American people to vote for us. And we think that ultimately that should be the strongest measure of who's the nominee," Obama told reporters in Woodburn, Ore.

Clinton also gained a superdelegate on Friday, Rep. Chris Carney of Pennsylvania. His congressional district voted overwhelmingly for the former first lady in the Pennsylvania primary on April 22.

Superdelegates are party leaders who attend the convention delegates by virtue of their positions, and are not selected in primaries and caucuses.

In an interview with National Public Radio, former candidate John Edwards said Clinton has made a compelling case for her candidacy, but "I think it's very hard for her now to make a compelling case for the math. I mean, I think that's the reality of what she's faced with. She knows that. ... It's just very hard to see how the math works."

Edwards has not endorsed either candidate since he dropped out of the race in January.

Both candidates have courted superdelegates in recent days in private meetings at party headquarters not far from the Capitol.

Clinton has shown no signs she is ready to quit the race. She is heavily favored to win Tuesday's primary in West Virginia, and is in the midst of a two-day swing through several other states with upcoming elections.

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re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

katzooks — Sat, 10 May 2008 12:07:18 GMT

The 69-59 split in Michigan seemed more than fair, considering that the actual vote in Michigan, a state where Obama wasn't even on the ballot, gave her an approx. delegate count of 72, a mere 3 points over the 69 delegate count offered in the Michigan compromise. When you consider that polls subsequent to the Michigan vote showed that a re-vote would have yielded a dead heat between Obama and Clinton, I think that the 69-59 compromise was more than fair.

The Clinton campaign's refusal to accept this compromise of course begs the question: Is Clinton genuinely interested in allowing Michigan voters a voice at the convention? Because her actions make it appear it is not, but that her sole interest is in getting the lion's share of the vote, ethics and democracy be damned.

In theory, offering her both the Florida and Michiagan delegates, as-is, may seem like a harmless enough gift to appease the Clinton campaign's anger over these contests. Aside from this gift being a blatant contradiction of democratic process, I would liken it to a child having a temper tantrum and being given the lollipop being screamed for.

But make no mistake: this lollipop is exactly what Hillary seeks, as she now works to convince superdelegates that Obama is unelectable (ala: can't get the white vote). She will continue this for the next several weeks, taking her argument, finally, to the May 31st DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee and ask them to award her the Florida and Michigan delegates, as-is. And she fully believes that she that the committee will award this to her, which is why you hear her campaign promising this will all be over in early June. My fear is that she will succeed in her attempt to stage a coup against democracy.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

jameyowen — Sat, 10 May 2008 12:21:06 GMT

why is the media raving and soft handling Obama! No one is the media will ask him the real character questions. Like (a) when he was using drugs what he did to change himself? (b) what's he doing to maintain that change?. What support system has he in place besides Rev. Wright to help him should he get elected when the pressures of running the country get to be to much for him. In my field once an addict always an addict? I and many others would like to hear the media ask him these questions. He talks a great game of change , but stays away from the changes he made in his own personal life and frankly it scares the hell out of us. Pres. Bush admitted he had a problem with alcohol and we knows what that cost us. Obama's character is a big issue and if he was really honest with himself and the people about all the changes he would make he would stand up like a man of principle and inist the votes from Florida and Michigan go to Clinton.Lay the blame for these states early voting were it belongs with our Gov. Charlie Christ, who took advantage of the peoples economic plight for his own adjenda?. Most voters didnt think about the consquenses early voting would have on the election. The white people are been discriminated against because nobody especially the DNC chairman Howard Dean wants to rock Obama's boat.He is a woman hater. I'm glad I was never one of his patients.. He's been one sided.from the beginning Obama. . The tables have definately turned, as for the super delegates, well they ought to be ashamed of themselves.. We have so many woman haters out to block Hilary at any and all cost. despite her experience its a disgrace.These elections are anything but fair and the media is to blame? .

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

monkey65761 — Sat, 10 May 2008 14:33:23 GMT

There is no reasion not to give them to her by the count, except it would be unfair. Mrs. Clinton did go to Flordia before the primary there after she signed not to go because the Dem. party said not to campaine in those states. She did go to Flordia and said it was just a visit. Wrong she talked to groups there, and if that isn't campaining I don't know what is. There was a blog,from a woman in Flordia that said' she was the only one who cared, and came to talk to us"

bad, that is campaining. She needs to come out with the fact that she did it then I could have a little respect for her as is I think she tells lies, and doesn't keep her word. so she realy doesn't deserve the votes. You don't reward a person that doesn't speak the truth. If wants the votes counted then she needs to come out with the fact that she did go there and did talk to groups there. That is capaining maybe in a low key way but still campaining.Obama kept his word and didn't go.No one is soft handling Obama but are giving him a real hard time, Soft handling if you want to call it that is certainly for Clinton, but I believe the new's is trying to put the facts in all the new's, some of them lean a little towards Clinton and some towards Obama, in in general they have reported and shown both sides. fairly. He is a man of principle,tries to follow the rules,and wants to bring change which we need. I am a 78 year old lady and no woman hater matter of fact would like to see a woman president in my time but I wouldn't vote for Mrs. Clinton if I died tomarrow, she is full of politics, hate and lies.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

icecrystal1972 — Sat, 10 May 2008 15:39:48 GMT

jameyowen - hold on a big fat second. Barak admitted to some drug use in high school. does that make him an addict? I smoked pot in high school, did cocaine once (didn't like the smell...LOL) and even dropped acid once; however I am now a 35 year old professional mother of two and by no means an addict. In all honesty there isn't too many of us out here who haven't done one sort of drug or another...but experimenting with drugs as a teen ager is by no means proof of addiction. Bill Clinton's numerous philandering with women through out his life could be seen, by your standards as an addiction. I think it shows a lot of character to ADMIT the drug use and not make excuses "I didn't inhale"

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

KEVINGOGO — Sat, 10 May 2008 17:43:56 GMT

You bias, pro-Obama people in the media are PATHETIC. YES THE DELEGATES WILL MATTER IN MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA, IF YOU DO THE MATH ACCUARATELY WITH THE SUPPORT SHE'LL GET IN THE NEXT PRIMARIES TOO.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

cookiegramma — Sat, 10 May 2008 18:06:34 GMT

In response to icecrystal1972; actually there are a good number of people out here who have not done drugs in our lives. If you had actually done any research on your guy you would have discovered that the abuse he claimed was in college as well and there are claims out there that he may have continued this use into his time in the Illonois state senate. Your claim about Bill Clinton is simply to accuse him of doing something that is par for the course for men in political office, Elliot Spitzer, John Kennedy and so on. None of them split the country the way it has been split now.By the way there has been no claim against Hillary that she ever used drugs nad that portrays a strength of character that Obama lacks.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

icecrystal1972 — Sat, 10 May 2008 18:21:17 GMT

cookiegramma...kudos for you and anybody else out there who have never experimented with drugs. And as far as other claims out there that he continued his drug use into the Illinois Senate, please provide those sources..by all means, if I am wrong, i am wrong. I just dont' think because he admited to using or experimenting with drugs at some point in his life makes him or anybody else who as done that an addict. No offense, but that is a bit short sighted. As far as Bill Clinton is concerned and his philandering, am I to infer that you think his unfaithfulness to his wife and womanizing (which some would consider a sexual addiction) is okay because "Most men in power do it"? As far as Hillary's character is concerned, let's not go there. She has plenty of instances (not involving drugs) where her character has taken a beating..ie. whitewater, the Bosnia story, the pilfering of white house furniture and mementos at the end of Bills' term as president, etc. There is a laundry list we can sit here and argue about. Do I think Barack is without his flaws? Definately not. I am not that naive. Also, how has Barack's actions split the country? Please enlighten me.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

icecrystal1972 — Sat, 10 May 2008 18:43:20 GMT

According to realclearpolitics the popular vote with Florida and Michigan: Obama 16,840,539 and Clinton 16,642,841 Now this doesn't give Obama ANY votes in Michigan because he wasn't on the ballot (i rationally ask any Clinton supporter out there how fair is this? He should at least get the 238,168 uncommitted votes). Which would bring the difference to, counting Michigan votes for Obama, 435,866. She would still need to win the remaining primaries by significant margins to catch him in the popular vote....she will probably take kentucky and WV by 35-40%, he will win Oregan, SD, and Montana. She wins Puerto Rico as well. Unless she wins out and wins out by HUGE margins she still will not catch him in the popular vote or delegates. He will still win i popular votes, pledges delegates from states and then the supers make thier decision. So even if Michigan and Florida get sat as is, she still isn't going to be able to make up the difference. The numbers are what they are.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

yellowdogdave — Sat, 10 May 2008 20:02:50 GMT

to:Ihrobio3

I am not arguing she is still going to win, I am just pointing out that the ridicule of the Clintons (which for some reason seems to be "hip" to the Obama crowd) makes no sense if you want to unite the party after the primaries---the Clintons were fighting for democrats and civil rights back when Barry Obama was still Barry and in college partying it up---Demos cannot win without Penn/NJ/Ny/Michigan and either Ohio and Florida and Barry is behind or tied in all of those except maybe NY----Clinton bashing and making fun of HIllary won't win over her supporters is all I am pointing out but the Obama media and supporters on Tv can't hide their glee that Hillary is losing and it is not helpful at all

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

lhrobi03@stlawu.edu — Sun, 11 May 2008 01:07:44 GMT

to yellowdog: I have been watching CNN's coverage of the primaries, and they have brought out plenty of her supporters to talk to the camera about why she's still in it.. I see no glee for Obama on CNN.. I see it in the people that have voted for him.. And if her supporters weren't so rabid and bitter (read typical women) he wouldn't have trouble winning the states which you mention.. I am personally very glad to see her failure.. I believe that woman would kill her own child to won the Presidency if the deal were offered by the Devil.. I don't believe she has any real concern for the voters or the country whatsoever, if she did, she would bow out, instead of continuing to throw as much negativity as she can at Obama.. And after bowing out she would address her supporters and urge them to vote for Obama, the Democratic nominee, because a win for the Democrats is much more important than her wounded pride at being beaten by someone she underestimated.. Perhaps if she hadn't been so negative she could have been the Vice-President, but she was too obsessed with the furtherance of her own political power.. If the Republicans win those states the blame lies clearly at her feet, and her rabid fans

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Northcarolinian — Sun, 11 May 2008 01:46:04 GMT

Blinded by her ambition to become the President, and due to her fear of loosing the nomination, Hillary Clinton has sought shelter of voodoo math and voodoo logic and reasoning that defy common sense. What she does now or says doen't make any sense. In order to stop her from harming the Democratic party, our country and her family, people should stop supporting and funding her campaign and stop attending her her meetings to force her to change her ways.

TellasisPatel

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

lhrobi03@stlawu.edu — Sun, 11 May 2008 01:55:33 GMT

well put, and people have stopped funding her account.. Word is she's dipping into her joint account with Bill.. Wonder how he feels about that, and how long he'll let that continue, hahaha

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

the-commish — Sun, 11 May 2008 02:17:18 GMT

A few "facts" bother me about the Clinton campaign.

1/ Small states do not count. When Obama wins "small" states, obviously those states are not important. Yet West Virginia, a "small" state, is now the be all and end all of the campaign. Why should WV be important now, when all of the "small" states Obama has won were meaningless?

I mean no slight to the hard-working people of the Mountaineer State by saying this.

2/ Obama's voters have been, in addition to African American, prodominately upscale, young, and well-educated, as oppesed to Cinton's being predominately white, poorer, and less-educated. Lets see: who do I want to choose from, the less-educated, or the well-educated? Hmmm. Somebody help me on that one!

3/ You cannot change the rules in mid-stream just to suit the outcome YOU want. What would stop other states from moving up their primaries in future election years? Only a penalty would stop it.

While I do agree that Obama could come to some compromise to allow some seating of delegates from Florida and Michigan, the negativity of Clinton's campaign, and the "It's my nomination, and how dare anyone oppose me" attitude is probably a good reason for not agreeing to do this.

Superdelegates are not trickling, but rushing to Obama now. This tells me that despite Clinton's expected big win in West Virginia this coming Tuesday, her arguments about her electability to the superdelegates will generally fall on deaf ears. Since that is the only argument she has left, she will obviously not be the Democratic nominee in 2008. The last arrow in her quiver will miss the target by a mile.

I would not vote for Hillary Clinton under ANY circumstances!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Bhamdude40s — Sun, 11 May 2008 02:17:59 GMT

Excuse me Mr REPUBLICAN democratic commentator... What di dyou just mean to leave W virigina out or is that just republican math? I still challage you to state by state tell me how hes is gonnna beat McCain? I will say FLORIDA will be a HUGE WIN for McCain ever more red than in the last two elections. and once TEXAS goes RED it will be over before the polls in Pacific time are closed. In other words a LANDSLIDE. And with you bing a registered repulican all of these articles you wrote pro obama will make you what most republicans are a hipicrit...

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

LenaParker — Sun, 11 May 2008 02:22:55 GMT

For those of you that will switch to MCCain if Hillary does not get the nod it sounds to me like you would cut off your nose to spite your face. I hope you are happy with the economy, health care, price of gas, unemployment, politics in general....because if you want MCCain be prepared for at least four more years of this mess. Its strange what makes some people happy.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

LenaParker — Sun, 11 May 2008 02:31:41 GMT

Sen Obama is willing to come to a compromise but Hillary did not agree with it because it was not what she wanted which was all or nothing. All for her - nothing for Obama in Michigan. If the tables were turned and Obama was losing and wanted to count FL & MI, Hillary would be saying no rules are rules. She wants to be back in the White House no matter how low she has to go.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

LenaParker — Sun, 11 May 2008 02:33:02 GMT

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

LenaParker — Sun, 11 May 2008 02:36:11 GMT

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Pointman68 — Sun, 11 May 2008 04:41:00 GMT

Is there any couple more immoral, arrogant, self absorbed and sleezy in Amercian politics than Hillary and Bill Clinton? No! They will say anything, do anything and TRY anything to achieve their political goal. After denouncing Carl Levin, Mark Brewer and Mich Dems in Dec.. for trying to "disrupt the process",Hillary Clinton has gone from not supporting Michigan primary results to demanding they be seated and included in her total of delegates. AND that the 40% voting uncommitted in that state not go to Obama but go to the convention as uncommitted.

EVEN though every Michigan Dem knows and was told a vote for uncommitted would be a vote for Obama. Isn't it all so Clintonesque!!?

And now Queen Hillary is out stumping as the Democratic canidate for the United States of White America claiming only she represents there interests and can win in November. I am sure if Nathan Bedford Forrest was still alive and offered her and Bill a white sheet to speak to his white sheeted brethern she would go if it meant her chance to pick up a few delegate votes!

The next time she makes her claim to the "white american vote" John Conyers and the Dem Black Caucus ought to come out and tell the party that they will ask the African American community to boycott her in the fall election should she steal the nomination. Support a Obama write in.

Let's see her get elected without the minority vote.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Pointman68 — Sun, 11 May 2008 04:41:09 GMT

EVEN though every Michigan Dem knows and was told a vote for uncommitted would be a vote for Obama. Isn't it all so Clintonesque!!?

Let's see her get elected without the minority vote.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

calchala — Sun, 11 May 2008 04:46:26 GMT

While I agree that at the end of the day the Obama Campaign would appear to be very magnanimous in giving Michigan and Florida to Clinton. There are two things that you are forgetting: The popular vote and the Clinton's strong ambition to get into the white house. Sen. Clinton would probably lose the delegate count regardless, I think they've accepted that. However, they would argue until they were blue in the face that the popular vote should be the accurate metric upon which to gauge the nomination. I think Sen. Obama is taking the correct approach. He cannot surrender Mich and Fl, just yet, as this would yield another talking point from the Clintons. They cannot see loss as an option. It's unfortunate, but that's the way of the world. Mich and FL brought it upon themselves.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

ToadTreeHugger — Sun, 11 May 2008 12:15:46 GMT

People criticize Hillary for not having a game plan for winning the nomination. But they overlook the fact that Obama does not have a game plan for winning the general election. Which is worse? His campaign from the start was all about winning delegates. A numbers game. He focused on those states that held caususes not primaries. The latter are far more democratic. He lost the big states, including all the battleground states - OH, PA, FL, MI, and IN. He lost the rural and blue-collar vote in droves. He lost the hispanic votes, and he's now on the verge of losing the Jewish vote for good. He doesn't have a coalition beyond the pundits, the left wing and the black population. McCain is sitting in an excellent position. Hispanics like him because of his immigration policies. Jews like him because of his hard line on Hamas and Iran. Rural and blue-collar voters prefer him over Obama. All McCain has to do to defuse Obama entirely is pick Colin Powell or Condi Rice as his running mate. Then it's a total blowout.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

gcparee — Sun, 11 May 2008 12:51:35 GMT

There is something wrong about this guy his choice of pastor,freinds political pals he doesnt have any moral valves what so ever.The folts got up in speachs will in time see his talk is not back up with action.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

soux2008 — Sun, 11 May 2008 15:05:59 GMT

To me, at this point, Hillary Clinton is staying in this campaign for her own selfish and self-absorbed reasons. Then again, isn't that what the Clinton's are all about? Out for themslelves? Look at Bill, making these weird abscure references to race and Hillary being treated unfair. Unfair? Isn't this the guy who was almost impeached by a "vast right-wing" conspiracy, and cheated on his wife while President? If there's anyone that should not be talking about fairness, it's the Clintons. If Hillary were anyone else campaigning, they would have droped out at this point.

I watched the DNC Rules and Bylaws committee last summer on CSPAN, and it was agreed at that time, that if any state broke the rules and conducted their primary earlier than scheduled, would do so at their own risk (meaning, their delegates would not be counted). It was overwhelmingly supported by all but less than five states at that time. So, both Florida and Michigan knew what their fate was before they held these primaries, and for the two to cry wolf at this point would not be fair. The DNC needs to get together at the end of this month (which they will do), figure this out so that there is an equitable division of delegates, and ensure that they are seated at the convention.

You only need to look no further than at the republican party to see the road Clinton should have taken. Mike Huckabee, after realizing that he could no longer win the nomination, bowed out graciously, and stood behind John McCain. It's what Clinton should do, but won't do! The reason that Clinton is remaining in this campaign is to destroy Obama's chances at the Presidency; because after all, if she can't have it, then neither can he! She says in a matter of fact tone, that she's staying in it so that millions of voters voices are heard, and that she'll never stop fighting for them, when in fact she'll never stop fighting for herself! If she was smart, she'd position herself for the future, instead of tearing down Obama, and if he doesn't win sit there with an "I told you so" grin on her face.

Clinton's only argument is that she can still win the popular vote, but metric in this case would not even matter because Obama wasn't on the ballot in Michigan. Let's say for the sake of argument, you allow her to have those two states while splitting the the delegates as this article states, she still is behind. Also, Obama is conceeding WVA and KY, and she's still behind!

You read this well written article, and you can clearly see that this is rediculous. At this point, Clinton is clearly going about this in a selfish manner and is destroying the very legacy she helped create.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Mimi13 — Sun, 11 May 2008 18:42:39 GMT

ToadTreeHugger -- what makes you think Obama does not have a plan for the general election? That's a pretty bald statement! You have heard, I assume, of the Electoral College. You do know that the people of the United States do not elect a president--they elect electors to the Electoral College. Very similar to delegates to the national convention. So a plan to pick off delegates in states -- one by one -- could be very similar to a plan to pick off electors in states one-by-one. He doesn't necessarily need all the big states, if he can replace them with others. (Aren't people in the smaller states a just little insulted by the implication that their votes don't count as much as the votes in New York, Pennsylvania and Ohio?) By the way, I've seen Colin Powell on a couple of talk shows recently. He's not supporting McCain because of his war policy. He hasn't said yet, but he's hinted that he's supporting Obama.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

older and smarter — Sun, 11 May 2008 18:42:52 GMT

Florida and Michigan don't count? If that be the case why are they counting all these state and areas that had caucus. These caucuses are no more than a straw pole. Anyone that shows up can vote. The voters don't evn have to prove they are registered voters. The way these caucuses are set all you have to do is be there when they are having them. I heard that people we hauled in from other states by the bus load to vote in the Iowa caucus because the colleges were on break.

Move on the New Hampshire and they complained that the primary was held at a time the colleges were not on break and thus denied the college students the opportunity to vote.

As for the division of delegates, it should be divided as any other primary, as it was voted.

I would not vote for Obama even if he put Hillay Clinton as his running mate. I would not vote for John McCain if he put Rice as his running mate. With Colin Powell on the ticket, yes I would vote for McCain. I would vote for Colin Powell for president but never a ticket that had Obama or Rice on it.

Obama has too many short cmings for me. He has not had time to take care of the people's business while in congress because he has been to busy first planning his policical carrer and secondly running his campain. I am told that when it came to Congress, Obama was a spectator, not a pertisipator.

He has the Rev. Wright, whom actually Obama used him and his church to further his agenda, meet Oprah and other persons he thought could help his policical ambisions.

He has the weather underground, his buddy Rezick (Rezick and his friends sould be enough to keep Obama from being a presidential contender) his lack of respect for this country or God.

Then of course there is Oprah with her support and influence. Look at the article on the internet "Church of Oprah: New Religion." She has even flaunted it on her tv show.

Let us not forget all the mean hateful things Mr. and Mrs. Obama have had to say about this country and the working and white people in it.

Everything you see him or his wife do on tv is always staged. A big show. At least one thing I will say for Obama, when he laughs he truly laughs, but look at his wife carefully. When she smiles or laughs it is only a put on you can see the cold hate and meaness in her eyes.

If News Week, NYT, MSNBC, CNN and the rest if the media has stayed out of this politicas process and let the voters speak every thing would have been better. Here is to the fifth branch or our government. The News Media. May you live to see the day you have to eat you words and lies.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

jp6815 — Sun, 11 May 2008 18:44:22 GMT

OBAMA COMMENTS THAT HE WILL BE THE PRESIDENT FOR ALL THE UNITED STATES IS A FARCE. LAST I CHECKED THERE WERE 50 STATES NOT 48. SO IF FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN DIDN'T COUNT IN THE PRIMARIES, WHY SHOULD THEY COUNT IN THE GENERAL ELECTION. I FOR ONE WON'T VOTE, ESPECIALLY FOR OBAMA. I FIND HIM NOT TRUST WORTHY, VERY CALCULATING AND TOO INEXPERIENCED TO BE PRESIDENT. BUSH TO WAS INEXPERIENCED AND LOOK AT THE SHAPE OF THIS COUNTRY. THE WORSE OF TWO EVILS OBAMA OR McCAIN!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

SCCavie93 — Sun, 11 May 2008 22:49:04 GMT

FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN SHOULD NOT BE REWARDED FOR BREAKING THE RULES!

I have lived in Florida for over 10 years and want NOTHING more than for my vote to count but I will wait until NOVEMBER.

I do not LIKE CHEATERS on any level. From the start ALL understood the CONSEQUENCES, and it is DISHONEST to TRY to change the RULES in the MIDDLE or END of the race! There is not excuse for Hillary and to suggest changing the rules clearly demonstrates a LACK of HONESTY and INTEGRITY we need in white house.

The EXCUTIVE BRANCH is larger than any one person. However, if the person largely responsible for that branch is NOT honest, is divisive, and GROSSLY manipulative and ALL that he/she (McCain & Clinton) does, I am GLAD the rest of the will not become victims of FLORIDA.

Hillary does the entire country and party a DISSERVICE by trying to emotionally blackmail the citizens of this great country. YES, these 2 states are important but no more or less than the other 48 and it was wrong for those 2 states to try and BULLY the others. Now that the race is all but over, ONCE AGAIN THEY WANT TO BULLY the other 48 by trying to DECIDE the OUTCOME. That is outrageous! Why are the other 48 states not PISSED OFF? Are we all willing to have a FREE for all during 2012? Be carefull of what you wish for....Contray to Bush's behavior, this is a country of laws.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Thimmappa — Sun, 11 May 2008 23:55:21 GMT

It would be grossly unjust to ignore the voting in the primaries of Florida and Michigan. In the face of those states breaking the Democratic Party rules by holding the primaries earlier than scheduled, those states should have been given an opportunity to vote again in newly-conducted primaries. Some prominent Democrats suggested this and offered to arrange private financing for re-voting. But it is surprising Sen. Obama objected to this. If he had agreed to this sensible approach, the controversy over the primaries in Florida and Michigan would have been resolved. Considering Sen. Obama's objection to re-voting in those states, the only solution left now is to allow the proportion of the votes cast in Florida (where both the names of Sen. Clinton and Sen. Obama were on the ballot) and the proportion of the Michigan votes cast for Sen. Clinton and the "uncommitted" votes cast (taking them as the proxy votes for Sen. Obama as his name was not on the ballot in Michigan), the delegates could be divided among the two candidates. If this is done, Sen. Clinton will still have a chance to be the nominee of the Democratic Party if she finally gets majority of the votes after all the primaries are over. Further, at that stage, even she has slightly less committed delegates than Sen. Obama, her case for getting the support of uncommitted superdelegates would be strong if she happens to be ahead in the total number of votes received. Her case would be further strengthened if she continues to lead Sen. Obama in the national polls when all the primaries are completed. In that context, the superdelegates cannot ignore also the fact that Sen. Clinton has demonstrated her ability to win critical big states such as Ohio, Florida, Texas, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Moreover, they would not be able to overlook the strong support from the white blue-collar workers, the seniors, and Catholics Sen. Clinton has been getting. Their votes are critical for winning in November against Sen. McCain.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

mrzoid — Mon, 12 May 2008 00:36:08 GMT

The ruling to strip the states of their delegates was foolish, yes. Michigan made a choice, Florida was sucked into it through a decision by a republican led state congress (absolutely brilliant political manuver). The whole thing is off base though; why should states be punished for wanting to have a bigger voice in the primary process? Do Iowa and New Hampshire really deserve to set the table for most election cycles? In my opinion, hell no! The states did violate the rules (all be it stupid rules) set forth by the DNC. However people, how is that in any way Obama's fault? The truth is that its not, and stop posturing as if it is. Obama is just as trustworthy as any of the other candidates (which is not saying a great deal). All of you who say Obama doesnt have a plan to win in November, get a clue, this is not an election for school counsel, everyone of these candidates has a very intricate plan on how to succeed in their campaign, otherwise they wouldnt be here at this level.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

mrzoid — Mon, 12 May 2008 01:02:48 GMT

How true you are sir to the problem that is modern political commentary. Load up an issue with gibberish and noise to prevent any intellegent discussion from taking place. Be proud that you can cut and paste, be ashamed that you are trying to represent the republican party and making the rest of us look like ignorant children who stomp their feet when they dont get the attention they want. Do you even have a clue what the ideals of the republican party were based on? Because if you think its just guns and religion with occasionally rambling off your favorite Sean Hannity rip offs, you sir are truly a drain on the party.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

tom_vickers@comcast.net — Mon, 12 May 2008 03:12:34 GMT

Great analysis, Andrew.

The problem with being magnanimous with Clinton is that she doesn't deserve it. Sure, Obama could give her what she wants in Michigan & Florida.....but that would be pandering to her, and her self-serving tactics. The better alternative is let it be completely resolved by the rules committee on May 31.

Ultimately, time works perfectly for Obama. He has all the high cards, and she holds the dueces and threes. She has no good exit...she can fold after KY, or she can wait,...but to no avail.

Obama will unify the party because he can...it's just too inportant to Democrats and the Democratic Party for that not to happen.

Tom

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

howiefineman — Mon, 12 May 2008 08:56:16 GMT

haha the biggest haters are the ones responsible for the republicans being in office in the first place: The NOBLE SPEAKING EVER RESPECTFUL BEVERAGE CHALLENEGED TEDDY KENNEDY, THE RESPECTFUL AND EVER LOYAL LOST IN A LANDSLIDE TO TRICKY DICK OF ALL PEOPLE GEORGE MCGOVERN, HAMAS LOVING JIMMY CARTER, SWIFT BOATED JOHN KERRY, JUST NOW SLITHERING OUT FROM UNDER A ROCK JOHN EDWARDS, VENGEANCE IS MINE I WILL CAST THE DECIDING VOTE AL GORE, YEEEEEEEEEEE-HAAAAAW HOWARD DEAN, ZERO DELEGATE WINNING DODD, NEVER EVEN GOT OFF THE BENCH BILL BRADLEY, FIRST SENATE LEADER IN HALF A CENTURY TO BE VOTED OUT OF OFFICE TOM DASCHEL AND WHO THE HELL CARES BILL RICHARDSON. haha if any of these gyne envy phallically challenged MEN? had done their job this country wouldnt be in this mess. THEY are the ones responsible for BUSH. THEY are the ones responsible for the mess the Democratic Party is in. THEY are the ones responsible for knocking out Senator Clinton because BANTAMWEIGHT BARRY couldnt. Clinton has had their t*ts in a ringer for 16 MONTHS and they still havent been able to do it. hahaha and theyve got the DNC and MSM and all the obamabots helping them out. GOD BLESS AMERICA. oops i mean NO, NO, NO, GOD DAMN AMERICA OFFICIAL ENDORSEMENT BY OFFICIAL CAMPAIGN SPIRITUAL ADVISOR TO OBAMA CRAZY OLD UNCLE JEREMIAH WRIGHT. Hahaha

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Dylan Rossi — Mon, 12 May 2008 13:36:54 GMT

The solution to FL and MI is now clear. Take the average spread in delegates of any of Hillary's victories and apply them to both FL and MI. This would be fair since neither Barack or Hillary campaign in either state. If they had, Hillary's margin of victory in delegates selected likely wouldn't have been much more than her average. Bottom line: It still doesn't get her the nomination.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

RASM5602 — Mon, 12 May 2008 16:25:40 GMT

Who the heck is Hillary anyway to call Mr Obama to find solution(s)...This should be handled by the DNC and not Clinton or Obama. I thought Clinton agreed to the RULES initially. I wonder if she was winning , if she would have had concerns for this...Desperarte to be in the white house............

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Fl_girl151 — Mon, 12 May 2008 17:40:48 GMT

This martyr act by Clinton is hilarious. She is on record earlier in the campaign as saying that Florida and Michigan weren't going to matter anyway and that it wasn't going to be a big deal. That's when she thought she wouldn't need us to win the nomination. I live in Florida and knew that my vote wasn't going to count when I cast it and a bunch of my fellow Floridians chose not to vote because it wasn't going to count in the primary. Even with her name as the only democrat on the ballot Hillary didn't carry 100% of Michigan which tells me something. She is showing herself to be a user which disappoints me because going into this campaign I really thought she would be the next President. When her husband ran for his first term she basically said screw the "hard-working white Americans with no college degree" because her husband wasn't winning them and when asked how they would connect with them she said "we don't need them". Now, they are the bedrock of her campaign. How is someone who hasn't driven herself around in over 15 years gonna care about how much we are paying at the pump? She, who has enough money to lend her campain 11 million dollars. At least be real about it. Barack Obama just finished paying off his student loans and before this race started he drove a Ford Escort. She has more than enough qualifications and there are enough substantive ideas to be debated during this race that actually matter than to be focusing on things like calling him an 'elitist' or alientating portions of her own constituency. As a black American with a degree I resent her implication that those of us with degrees aren't hardworking Americans.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

pearsoncrz — Mon, 12 May 2008 18:17:41 GMT

RASM5602, if the DNC actually applied the rules they had adopted, Hillary and Obama would be virtually tied. They don't want to apply the rules because it would mean taking away some of Obama's delegates, and giving some back to Hillary, Dean and Pelosi aren't going to do that now. They set up this affirmative action nomination process so Obama would win, and they don't care if it destroys the party. Read the history of the DNC rules about what states should go first and why. They were out to defeat Hillary as much as the right wing talk show pundits.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

NotFooledByDistractions — Mon, 12 May 2008 19:04:18 GMT

If Hillary would have been a better candidate and run a better campaign, she wouldn't be in this predicament. She and her supporters have no one to blame but Hillary herself. She agreed to a set of rules before the primary season, and apparently had a change of heart when the losses were mounting. If she won't hold to her word in the primaries, how can we possibly trust her word if elected? C'mon folks, Hillary's loss is her own fault - it's foolish (and downright Bush-like) to try and pin it on outside forces. The views of Obama and clinton are not that different, the 21 debates proved that - they agree on almost everything - yet McSame is the polar opposite on the issues. If you were supporting a democratic candidate, could you really cast your vote for McCain and against your own personal best interests? Think about it.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

TishiJo — Mon, 12 May 2008 23:06:18 GMT

The delegates in Michigan and Florida DO NOT COUNT. They broke the rules PERIOD! The Michigan and Florida voters for Obama stayed home because they were told their votes would not count. End of discussion.

AND the # of delegates needed cannot be changed and increased to benefit Hillary now that she has lost. Hillary has lost and just keeps trying to move the goal posts. She has dishonored herself, the position of First Lady and the Democratic Party. Throw her out NOW!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

not_another_american_idiot — Wed, 14 May 2008 06:30:12 GMT

There are also many logical reasons why the delegates should be seated in Florida and Michigan. Way to go once again Obamaweek!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

not_another_american_idiot — Wed, 14 May 2008 06:35:32 GMT

I'm curious how a candidate that wants to "change politics" can also argue that you have to "play by the rules." If he really stood up for what's fair over what's best for him, those votes would be counted, but again just another example of hypocriteobama!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Proud Obama supporter — Wed, 14 May 2008 08:01:10 GMT

I agree with TishiJo's comments -- I am a native Floridian; Michigan and Florida voters were told their votes for president would not count in the primary because our party broke the rules - regardless that the Republicans were responsible for moving the primary up a week in Florida(Republicans were also "punished" - they were only allowed to receive half of their delegates). We were also told the candidates names would be on the ballots because there wasn't time to reprint new ballots for the primary. In addition, none of this came to light to the majority of Florida's citizens until after the first of the year; the Republicans slipped this amendment through and most of us were in the dark just prior to the new primary date and the rules imposed by both parties.

In addition, there probably wouldn't have been much of a turnout since the Dems votes would not count; however, there was an important amendment to the constitution on the ballot which most likely helped Florida have a decent turnout.

Note to Hillary supporters - please get over it -- Obama has the nomination, If you do vote for McCain be prepared for 4 more years of the George Bush administration, 100 or more years of our involvement in the Iraq war (pretty soon we won't have a military -- here or abroad if it keeps up, not to mention the money we're spending on this civil war). And let's not forget -the second most important issue of this election - the ecomony is in the toilet - can you imagine what the cost of gasoline will be by the time the next president takes office; how many Americans will have lost their homes because of inflated mortgages? And what about health care? If you do vote for McCain, also remember he has no national health plan to offer -- he's too busy doing favors for his lobbyists so they'll continue to scratch his back.

Get educated before you go to the polls in November. If you're not up on the facts and policies of each candidate, do us all a favor and stay home on Election Day. This country can't afford your vote.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Pandora1 — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:30:33 GMT

Helloooo - doesn't Obama care about the Florida and Michigan come November? He is so focused on winning the numbers game for the nomination, he doesn't see the bigger picture, and shows another example of naivete' about the democratic process. The voters in those states didn't make the rules and were merely pawns in the whole debacle. The Republican Governor et al decided to break the rules, so I guess that's it for the 4 million voters involved. I wonder how they will feel about seating an apportioning of delegates since they know Obama wouldn't allow a revote in June that was proposed by the DNC and Clinton and would have been financed by both of the campaigns as well as third party contributors. Think about it - how would you feel?

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Mimi13 — Wed, 14 May 2008 16:09:48 GMT

Obama was not in a position to "allow" or not allow a re-vote in Florida. The state legislature would have to authorize it and they refused. Even a privately financed re-vote was not possible because the voter registration rolls, by state law, are not available for private elections. So, there would be no way of determining if a potential voter was a Democrat, a Republican, or even if he or she was citizen or even a legal resident. The much bandied about idea for a mail-in vote was never more than a pipe dream beacuse there is no mechnism to verify signatures for a mass election. The re-vote drive fell apart beacuse people finally realized that there was no practical way to conduct a new election. I'm sure Obama cares very much about Florida and Michigan, which is why his first campaign stops for his general election campaign include those states. Also, Obama's camp has okayed an apportionment plan for the Michigan delegates, but it has been nixed by the Clinton camp. Finally, it was not just the Republicans in the state legislature who voted to move up the election -- all the Dems also voted for the bill. And Michigan has a Democratic legislature and a Democratic governor. Anyone in those states who resents being in the middle of this mess should resolve to vote out of office the clowns and cowards who created it.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

daved@yahoo.com — Wed, 14 May 2008 17:16:08 GMT

i'm neither a hillary nor obama supporter,but i am a democrat.which means whomever the nominee is i will support.it is disturbing to hear so many americans sayn they would not support the winning democrat nominee if their candidate does not win.are americans that fragile that some will support republicans or not vote in november just because their candidate did not win? before doing that i would ask those individuals to think..are they happy with the way the economy is going?are they happy with the direction this great nation is headed...maybe they are

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

missrhondalynn72 — Wed, 14 May 2008 17:39:55 GMT

I am upset that the DNC would even consider seating the Michigan delegates. Yes, I want the voices of the Michigan people heard, but they won't all be heard. I am a single mother of 2, I am employed full-time and I am a part-time college student. I did not vote back in January because my candidates name was not on the ballot. Therefore, if I did not vote, I am positive there are thousands of others who also did not vote for the same reason. The only far way to count the voice of Michigan is to hold a new primary. But if it is insisted on that they split the votes, it should be 50/50! Come on people use your common sense!!!!!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

sdbeckham — Wed, 14 May 2008 20:52:36 GMT

The problem is that it cannot be perceived that "Clinton rolled Obama". The Republicans would have a field day saying that he isn't tough enough. "He can't even control a woman in his own party, how is he going to be able to stand up to the Middle East and other adversarial leaders? "

Also, based on the way that Clinton has conducted her campaign since South Carolina, he should not concede anything to her. She needs him to get financial debt monkey off her back.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

powin — Wed, 14 May 2008 22:12:00 GMT

Alvy wrote, "So what you're doing is trying to tear me apart to try to win an argument? Right? Tell me about your mother? What a pompous ass you are. I know you're mother is dumb and irresponsible - look at you."

Alvy,

Try reading to expand your vocabulary. Unfortunately, even bright people like Cheney can be toxic to others (and that's being polite)....If I didn't cite a source and I used one to support an argument, then I would be plagiarizing. Only a fool would accuse someone of doing such if the fool, himself, was incapable of writing something intelligent. I don't know why you PROJECT and displace the way you do, and this is none of your business, but, my mother is a world renoun eastern philosophy scholar (She's been recognized by the United Nations) and is also a retired assistant professor of medicine. But I'm responsible for my superficial success, a house overlooking the sea, a license to practice psychotherapy and preventive health care, over two masters degrees and a good salary. Go back to your dorm, Alvy, and study for your finals, "dumbs**t," to borrow a phrase from you, b.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

powin — Wed, 14 May 2008 22:13:32 GMT

Alvy,

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

ALEX02 — Thu, 15 May 2008 04:01:04 GMT

DO NOT FORGET all thiS NONSENSE TALK, that SUPERDELEGATES counts are not final until they will vote on JUNE. UNTIL THEN NOTHING IS FINAL . UNlike pledged delegates m they can swing to either side AT ANY TIME, so DO NOT TRUST The THIS NONSENSE percentage MATH yet. FINAL EXAM IS YET TO BE HERE. ITs very prudent to go around and say OBAMA won . I am deeply disturbed by Obamas turn his back on HIS CHURCH os 20+ yrs. If he denounces his mentor for 20+ yrs in a second, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT TO SEE his postion in any of his future issues in government? I doubt he will stick to his own talk . TALK AGAIN IS CHEAP. CHANGE and CHANGE and CHANGE ??? hasnt any past president candidate said athe same thing? before? YOung voters are more emotional then logical. They still has lot to learn once they join the work force and get out to commiunity and look and feel what really takes to run this country. DONT be fooled by the News. THIS IS NOT THE TIME to gamble on someone fresh out of Law office. We need someone with more knowledge and experince in FOREIGN and DOMESTIC Issues who actully worked on for past 10 yrs and familier. Obams is lacking precisely in that area. WHAT do you really know aboaut obama when her turnes his back on his MENTOR in his OWN CHURCH for his life time? will he denounce entire African american comminity as well ? It seems he doesnt want to hide behind his pride of being Black instead embracing them. HE WANTS TO BE a WHITE MAN? I doubt this but i cant not help but wonder based on observation i had. YOU DONT FORSAKEN YOUR OWN CHURCH and TURN YOUR BACK for the sake of winning the office? THINK PEOPLE. this is where the true character show!!!.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

ALEX02 — Thu, 15 May 2008 04:11:17 GMT

LET THE FLORIDA, and MICHIGAN COUNT this is clearly a case where peoples voice are over the stupid party rules. when did ever US constitution built on interest of few people in government? its is for the people and by the people. THIS IS NOT childs game. LET THEM COUNT and voice to be heard. as for hte florida. WHY HASNT obama took his name off the florida then? WHEN YOU PUT YOUR NAME ON THE BALLOT, YOU ARE COMMITED on what ever OUTCOME.!!! DONT FORGET THAT. dont come back nagging, and complain after you lose and telling about not wanting to coaunt because you lost. besides decision of going early was done by the FLorida Governor who is a REPUBLICAN?

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Fla concerned — Fri, 16 May 2008 12:42:55 GMT

As a citizen of the US and as a voter, I am very concerned but not confused as to why Obama, and the majority of the news media don't care about our vote in Florida or in Michigan. Obviously, the Obama supporters don't want our voices to be heard, and the News Media for the most part are so obviously unwilling to go against Obama or so in love with him they forgot little things like constitutional rights for the people. Why did Obama take his name off of Michigan--why not Florida? That was his choice clearly. Our vote in Florida counts, I don't care what is being said or not being said. The Govenor doesn't seem to care--he wants to be VP...Why should he push this?

Well I will tell you this--if we aren't treated fairly (too little too late) then I hope everyone has the long memory that I have in the general election come November.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

budda11255 — Fri, 16 May 2008 18:32:33 GMT

I am a Fl voter and say enforce the rules! I know enough about the candidates now to say I will vote for the Democratic nominee in the fall, most likely Sen. Obama. I noticed that ALEX02 start talking about the US Constitution, only problem is that the Democratic party is a private organization and can make what ever rules they want, just as the republicans did. I am disapointed in Sen. Clinton supporting the FL and Mich delegates now that she needs them. I would have had a lot more respect and support for her had she not agreeded to disenfranchise us from the beginnning. I cringe when I hear people say they will vote for a 'women' or an 'african' in the fall. I just want you to vote for the 'BEST CANIDATE', I have voted for republican and democrate, I pride my voting record on who I though was best for America.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

budda11255 — Fri, 16 May 2008 18:32:37 GMT

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

LenaParker — Sat, 17 May 2008 04:18:21 GMT

I hope everyone in FL and MI feel the same way a budda11255, Rules are rules except Hillary underestimated the Obama camp. It is not Obama's fault that their votes wont count. Hillary voted along with everyone else and knew up front that they would not count. Now that she did not get her landslide victory, she wants to change the rules in the middle of the game. This shows that she cannot be trusted. Obama should not be blamed for something that he did not do. He cannot single-handedly make the decision for a re-vote. But the Hillary supporters want to blame him for that. They reached a compromise with the delegates but Hillary said no. They said no campaigning in Florida, but Hillary made at least one trip there anyway. She cannot be trusted to do what she says. Florida and Michigan voters do matter to both dem. candidates but the rules only matter to one of them.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

piggyhew — Sat, 17 May 2008 15:19:48 GMT

the dnc may not count mi. fla. now but they exspect out vote in nov. ,i can not support a guy that is willing to turn his back on the rights of millios of people and exspect to gain their trust this fall,is that what he would do in the white house not lisen to the american people ,we have that now, obama left his name on fla. ballot why not mi. he new he woulnt win here and he wont carry mi. this fall because hes not for the working man or woman he rubed elboes with the big shots very few working people or the poor.,so why would we want to vote for him.theres still nadar and ron paul.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

ALEX02 — Sat, 17 May 2008 22:54:40 GMT

Why on earth on a such a crises in massive scale you want to try someone fresh and clean slate? Rules are rules?? Isnt there also a more fundamental rules that states you cant not forsaken peoples voices? Isnt right s of peoples voice RULE overides all others? this is what America is built on. Clinton already has much greater foreign relations experiences beyond the reach of OBAMA. Think about this . BILL clinton wont be seating in play room and see Hiliary do all the talking . HE will be actively inveovled in foreign diplomatic cases if you belive this or not. he already know MANY PEOPLE interntinally, and domestically. He already has done so many successufully during his term.. its a PLUS for us for next few years of turmoil. OBAMA need to go out and introduce himself make new friends frome the start. MY OPINION is that THIS IS NOT THE TIME it may be nicer if US is not such a mass as now, both economically and internationally. WE need to pick someone who already know the system well to take advantage of the whole situation. GET THEM BACK ON TRACK RESTORE THE ORDER AND PEACE THEN INTRODUCE SOMETHING NEW FOR CHANGE AHEAD FOR BETTER. Obama will make better president in near future BUT NOT NOW. THIS IS NOT THE TIME. if florida dont count then dont expect the florida people to vote for obama in the novemeber, who ever said this is absolutly right. DONT FORSAKEN YOUR OWN SPIRITUAL LEADER AND MENTOR, DONT FORSAKEN THE CITIZENS OF FLORIDA,

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

pearsoncrz — Wed, 21 May 2008 03:10:20 GMT

Rule 11.A specifically set the date for the primaries & caucuses

for Iowa, "no earlier than 22 days before the first Tuesday in February" - held primary on January 3 more than 22 days before the first Tuesday in Feb

for New Hampshire "no earlier than 14 days before the first Tuesday in February" - held primary January 8, more than 14 days before the first Tuesday in February

for South Carolina "no earlier than 7 days before the first Tuesday in February" -- held primary on January 26, more than 7 days before first Tuesday in February

Rule 20.C.1.a. established the penalty for volating Rule 11.

Violation of timing: In the event the Delegate Selection Plan of a state party provides or permits a meeting, caucus, convention or primary which constitutes the first determining stage in the presidential nominating process to be held prior to or after the dates for the state as provided in Rule 11 of these rules, or in the event a state holds such a meeting, caucus, convention or primary prior to or after such dates, the number of pledged delegates elected in each category allocated to the state pursuant to the Call for the National Convention shall be reduced by fifty (50%) percent, and the number of alternates shall also be reduced by fifty (50%) percent. In addition, none of the members of the Democratic National Committee and no other unpledged delegate allocated pursuant to Rule 8.A. from that state shall be permitted to vote as members of the state's delegation. In determining the actual number of delegates or alternates by which the state's delegation is to be reduced, any fraction below .5 shall be rounded down to the nearest whole number, and any fraction of .5 or greater shall be rounded up to the next nearest whole number.

None of the three states above were penalized under this rule.

There is no justification for removing all delegates from Michigan and Florida.

1. The rules the DNC adopted said only half the delegates would be removed

2. None of the other states were penalized at all

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

momma72666 — Wed, 21 May 2008 07:03:47 GMT

Well I would like to comment about this article. I am an American and the fact that those Americans in those states voted and their votes dont count is absurd to me. If the popular vote says that they want Hilary Clinton then that old saying the majority rules. If our elected officials do not go the way that the people that put them in office have voted then by all means that should be voted out at the next election.I really cannot believe that because of a date these peoples votes are not going to count. I also feel that people worked very hard to get Bill Clinton out of office, they will work twice as hard to try to keep Hilary Clinton out of office.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

blackfrost — Wed, 21 May 2008 14:17:18 GMT

I'm from Michigan..

I, my wife, and our friends do not want Hilary in office. Do we sue if the DNC gives us 0 votes for Obama because then we are disenfranchised?????

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

wantastrongnationagain — Thu, 22 May 2008 02:25:57 GMT

Hello Hillary!! What's there to discuss? I ask again, do the people of this nation want someone like this to be the next President? No ethics, no class, no scruples, no perception - this is the epitomy of a scum bag attorney! Ask her boss, who was in charge of the Watergate investigation. He wouldn't even give her a letter of recommendation after her performance! Had Nixon not resigned and this had gone to trial, he feels she would've been disbarred for her unscrupulous, dishonest performance. So what's to discuss?

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

mhopgood123 — Thu, 22 May 2008 15:35:01 GMT

What should happen here is, the media should refrain from giving CLinton so much attention to this issue, and I can guarantee that it will lose its appeal. What keeps her going is the spotlight. The minute no one pays attention to her arguments they wil not matter anymore. The superdelegates are watching and they know her arguments don't fly.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

mhopgood123 — Thu, 22 May 2008 15:35:07 GMT

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

Mr.Marcus — Thu, 22 May 2008 21:24:22 GMT

"Close, but no cigar". LOL what a oxymoron for the Clinton's, no one should be around CIGARS in that household. If I didn't know better I would believe Hillary Clinton is a pouting little baby. Just like when Gore cried he should have won. I didn't vote for Bush mind you, but she thinks we owe her something. WHAT??? shes a fake. Riding Bills' coattails, what the hell happened to the RODHAM??? Now it's Hillary Clinton???? Get real Ms Lady, as much as the Clintons' have done for the United States, no one wants Bill roaming that house again. Concede and get on board baby.....lets try something new.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

phillydog — Fri, 23 May 2008 19:40:18 GMT

This is a failing quality in Hillary that I do not like to see. I know that politician say things that they don't mean at times, and they will change in the middle of the stream as it benefits their positions, but what kind of message does this send to the citizens of this country? What do you believe and when do you believe it? It is sort of like McCain telling the Hespanics in Florida that the Demacrats are against them because they oppose NAFTA. There will be no ethnic, age group or gender who will not be in worse shape in three years, if the Republicans remain in office. Who really cares about our country? If a person can risk his/her life fighting a unsubstantiated war, they should be elgible for a scholarship to further their education. But how will they get to school? According to our new rate of oil speculation, we will be paying 10 dollars a gallon in three years. I really like Hillarys health care plan, but unless our government nationalizes our oil industry health care, food and our way of life will be a thing of the past.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

paulte — Tue, 27 May 2008 14:49:43 GMT

This does show the two-facedness of HRC. Only after she needed the delegates did she change her mind. Then there are her "apologies." She apologized for playing the race card big time against Obama and she apologized for bringing up the RFK assassination. It seems to be a pattern. She knows what will benefit her, so she does it for effect and then backs away from it by "apologizing" afterward. She seems to be a driven woman. I think she has a power addicition which clouds her reasoning.

Now even though I hate her guts I wouldn't assume the following about her. But think about it. Appeal to white voters who don't want a black President. Talk of past assaination of presidential candidate. Can the two be linked by a desperate woman somewhere in her psyche?

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

watchdogroup — Wed, 28 May 2008 12:27:12 GMT

Oh good THIS again- talk about beating a dead horse- over and over and over. Are some of you people for real. Rah rah rah and friggen Rah!!!

Where was all this 'free speach' talk, Flag waving and righteous indignation when Florida and Michigan were disqualified because they stupidly broke the rules?

I'm one of millions of Florida Voters who didn't vote- because it was made very clear 6 months ago that - IT WASN'T GOING TO COUNT. Is our 'voice' any less important? Were we supposed to take time from work and vote in hopes MAYBE it would count? Many voters in this idiotic state are more than a bit JADED (can we even use THAT word now w/o being branded and elitist?) towards the election process and my dangling chads are still a bit raw!

Bottom Line the Author is correct- at this point Florida and Michigan's 'Elections' have been rendered IRRELEVANT- Meaning THEY WOULD NOT HAVE MATTERED - EITHER WAY TO THE OUTCOME and frankly under the circumstances - (voting, not voting, names not on ballot, not campaigning etc. etc.) being a non-factor is the best thing that could have happened to these tainted, incomplete and bastardized results.

Split the damned Delegates any way the DNC sees fit and MOVE ON!!!!!!!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

DewiClark29 — Wed, 28 May 2008 19:15:11 GMT

hhmmm... is this any indication of what her presidency would look like? I say what seems right at the time, but when it goes against my favorm, I change it.... very genuine, don't you think? I don't consider myself a big Obama supporter, but this behavior just seems shady on HRC and company's part. It's like throwing a coin in the air calling heads, but when you see it's landing on tails calling tails and saying it's unfair that you don't get the shot.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

GTX13 — Thu, 29 May 2008 03:44:40 GMT

Obama has refused a "redo election process " in Florida and Michigan ?! ...Why ?!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

su1950 — Fri, 30 May 2008 04:16:13 GMT

we in michigan should revote we have rights too,and hillary has won here as well as florida.!!! just another crooked election as i see it.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

daddyo159 — Fri, 30 May 2008 19:00:36 GMT

Comment: Democrat vs Republican: ( I love this story)

A Father/Daughter Talk

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself a very liberal Democrat, and was very much in favor of 'the redistribution of wealth.'

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.

Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She did not even have time for a boyfriend, and did not really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened and then asked, 'How is your friend Audrey doing?'

She replied, 'Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over.'

Her wise father asked his daughter, 'Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.'

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, 'That wouldn't be fair! I have worked hard for my grades! I have invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!'

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, 'welcome to the Republican Party.???

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

daddyo159 — Fri, 30 May 2008 19:02:14 GMT

HURRY UP AND PICK ONE ALREADY SO I KNOW WHO I'M VOTING AGAINST IN NOVEMBER !!!

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

daddyo159 — Fri, 30 May 2008 19:18:13 GMT

Comment: Here are the facts for all to see and read..anyone who thinks rationally can only conclude that Obama is a phoney and a Liar !

Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a Black Muslim from Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white ATHIEST from Wichita, Kansas.

Moderate Muslims can no longer tolerate Obama. He and his wife are haters for his wife to say that this country is no good and this country has never been good to her. Obama should denounce his Pastor Jeremiah Wright, who has connections with Louis Farrakhan, along with him being friends with that underground guy William Ayres who he says is his friend after he bombed the Pentagon in1972, he received money from William Ayres, and this guy is way worse than Mark Rich.

Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii. When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya. His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from Indonesia. When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to Indonesia. Obama attended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta. He also spent two years in a Catholic school. Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim.

He is quick to point out that, "He was once a Muslim, but that he also attended Catholic school." Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct influence over his son's education. Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world. The terrorists that crashed into the Twin Towers were once all enrolled in the study of Wahabism..just as Obama was!!

Since it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major public office in the United States, Barack Hussein Obama has joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background.

Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected Presidential candidacy. The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the President of the United States, one of their own!!!! ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office - he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Kuran (Their equivalency to our Bible, but very different beliefs) Obama also refuses to pledge allegiance to the USA flag.

How can someone who wants to be President refuse to commit to the USA? Before you vote for any candidate, remember how many people are disgusted with Obama???s autobiography!!!!

Voters be cautious in this crucial election that means so much to the USA and the free world.

re: Why Florida and Michigan Won't Matter in the End

suszen — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:33:20 GMT

Nice to read about this article but i dont have amy idea about this so please send the details adout this topic.

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suszen::)

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