Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

claroclaro — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:13:59 GMT

"It's not like the party was looking for a troop-hating, Iraq-avoiding, hearing-skipping candidate and Obama happened to fit the bill. So the whole "he's changing to help himself" accusation isn't particularly convincing."

No, the party was looking for a candidate who was not tainted by support for the Iraq war, as Hillary and most other Dems were. The only way Obama was able to accomplish that was to avoid any vote or hearing in which he would have to approve funds for the war-and therefore appear to support it, or to deny funds-and therefore appear to not support the troops.

I can't quite figure you out you know. Are you really so dumb that you believe what you wrote, or are you a so partisan that you just don't care?

McCain is right on the money. Obama is nothing new. He's a good old-fashioned political hack. Of course, there’s nothing wrong with that… unless your whole campaign is based on being a new brand of politician.

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

fid4nw — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:39:15 GMT

It’s become very clear that this is not an election between Obama and McCain – this is an election between Obama and Not Obama. Conservatives spend at least 80% of their energy blasting Obama; I seldom see any of them suggest reasons that McCain would make a good president. And what are the conservative criticisms of Obama? That Obama has called for shifting troups from Iraq to Afghanistan; and conservatives criticise him for this (never mind that McCain has finally come around to agreeing with Obama, and so has Bush). Obama has called for more direct diplomacy with Iran; and conservatives criticise him for this (never mind that Bush has finally come around to agreeing with Obama on this point as well). Conservatives are upset that Obama correctly predicted the mess that Iraq has become while McCain claimed we would be welcomed as liberators. Obama is the first candidate ever to forgo using tax-payer dollars to fund his campaign, while McCain will spend $87M of them; and conservatives criticise him for this.

Sorry, but trying to paint Obama as a “politician” is not going to be enough to switch my vote to McCain. What’s McCain going to do for me?

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

not.Brit — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:44:37 GMT

@ claroclaro

You must have missed when Andrew wrote that "Joe Biden, the chairman of the Foreign Relations committee, has insisted that hearings on this critical issue be held at the full committee level, and not at the subcommittee level." You also must have missed when he wrote that McCain had attended "zero" of his own committee's hearings since 2006. And perhaps you missed the part where he said that "neither Obama nor McCain should treat his opponent's Capitol Hill absences as especially unusual. Nor should voters."

Agree or disagree with Andrew, that's fine (I do it all the time, it's fun). But don't call him "dumb."

In the end, you were never going to vote for Obama anyway, so I'm not sure what you're complaining about.

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

Bodiethebulldog — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:46:19 GMT

Claroclaro...Troop hating? wow, what an accusation. If you hated the troops, you'd leave them in Iraq to die...like McCain proposes. So enough of your hillbilly, gun totting, bible thumping, pro life/pro death, sister loving, back-wood comments - about your next president- to yourself

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

USAUK — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:47:30 GMT

never held a single Senate hearing on Afghanistan

I get up every morning and go to work.

I do my job.

hasn't been to Iraq in years

I travel whatever country I am in to mange the workload and client load I manage.

vot[ed] against funding our troops

As we watch the Freshman's views change as reality bites...this 'stance' (using the word liberally--which does not mean to defame Liberals--as I am one)...seems a bit less...sensible.

positions that helped him win his nomination

No!?!

and now that he has, "he's changing to help himself become president.

He never changes his mnd ever. In the short time we've known him he has stood firm on Rev Wright, FISA, Iraq, Israel...he doesn't pander at all...how silly of me.

For starters, none of these "positions" actually helped Obama win the Democratic nod

You are so right, no one voted for him for the 'stances' he took. They voted on his record, his accomplishments and his expertise.

It's true that Obama never held a single Senate hearing on Afghanistan-

but that's because Joe Biden

Ahhh...I see...it was Joe's fault.

It's also true that Obama has only attended on Afghanistan-related Senate meeting over the past two years

Because W has not been focussing the right things.

Sadly, that's what happens when you're running for president--the day job suffers.

Sadly everything suffers when all you do is run for office. No meaningful outcomes. No 'change', except to your own status.

Obama did, in fact, vote against a 2007 war-funding bill

But what he meant to say was....only if he situation on the ground was such that the troops on the ground wouldn't need to be supported...while they were there fighting.

Since May, the Arizonan, who visits every few months, has said that his rival, who hasn't visited since 2006

I won't vote for McCain either, but at least he is paying attention.

Ultimately, McCain is trying to frame Obama as a no-nothing foreign-policy novice maneuvering for maximum political gain. He may have a point.

Nice to bury that statement in saccharine...because then the point is diffused.

Sleep well knowing you've done nothing but pander and perpetuate nonsemse/

As Steve Martin once sang 'And I get paid for doin' thiiiiis'.

When I am working on initiatives that are creating growth within my organisation, I still manage my other responsibilities.

I don't blame others for committees I am responsible for not meeting, especially when I talk about this being the focus of what we should be doing. Senator Obama does not need the permission of Senator Biden to convene his team. The team could have developed strategies and ideas which would then be carried forward to the Biden led committee.

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

captbilly — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:06:05 GMT

I have never understood how Flip Flopping (changing you mind) has become such a negative thing. Are we supposed to prefer someone who when confronted by the reality that their position on an issue isn't working, simply continues to do the same thing. George Bush seems a perfect example; he holds on to a bad idea long long past when everyone else in the world realized it wouldn't work, should I be upset if he had flip floped on Iraq after he realized that the entire premise for being there was a lie? The whole world would be a better place if George had been able to see his mistakes and change course.

If Obama goes to Iraq and Afghanistan and sees something that changes his mind about how to proceed in those countries than he would be doing the American people a huge disservice by clinging to policies that he now believes won't work. I guess the inference is that you are flip flopping if you change your mind frequently when confronted by voters or pole results, but even in that case I would prefer a politician who does what the people he represents, want him to do.

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

USAUK — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:09:43 GMT

RE: not.Brit

I would vote and have voted for candidates across party lines.

You want him. You vote for him. But please don't act as if I have not made an informed decison.

Maybe in your next job you'll have 300 staffers filling you in on things you don't know. Probably didn't post that article on the BO site...might make him look completely incapable.

I want a President, any President of any Party, of any gender, of any race of any creed...this candiate does not meet any rother ecognisable critieria...

It's your vote. I respect your choice. I read the article. And picked out ALL th points that were glossed over with excuses.

You posted back the excuses.

I ddin't call Andrew 'dumb'. I called him irresponsible.

Both of you will sleep well in your unquestioning bliss. Do so. That is your right. We all have one vote. Andrew has a paid position in which he is supposed to repore news. You and he are both blissful. How lovely.

I resent people like Andrew spouting their point of view instead of stating facts.

Democracy and journalism used to be respected.

Now...

You are so right.

I didn't pay attention to the candidates message...nor the excuses for the candidate behavior in the article.

I'll get that right the next time.

OOOOBAAAAAMMMMMMAAAAAA.

Not.

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

USAUK — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:26:58 GMT

RE: captbilly

No one in their right mind would support a rigid stance.

When was the last time though that someone changed their stance and then erased all reference to their previous stance, that you know of?

Change your mind, we can cope with that.

Rewrite your own history? I have issues...

The candidate acting as if he has been saing all along that Iraq would depend on 'things on the ground'. I am sure that was a sentence uttered while the crowd was swooning. Not what most of us heard.

He is for: Rev Wright, Jerusalen as the undisputed capital of Isreal, relations with Cube and Iran. He is against FISA, guns and racism. But then he is against Rev Wright, will talk to a different audience in a different way about Jerusalem, didn't actually mean open relations with Cuba because Florida didn't react well and Iran...we'll see.

The candidate has asked us to take him for who he 'is'. Tell me who that is?

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

bluegyro — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:58:18 GMT

Ah! An article about an ad that doesn't reiterate the ad and think that by quoting someone from the other campaign, they've done a comprehensive piece of "balanced journalism. Here we have some real analysis, plus links to the relevant points to boot. And at the end, he still leaves open whether McCain has a valid point, while having shown that the argument he made is insufficient. Nice piece of journalism. (And no, I'm not his mother, and have no relationship to the writer!)

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

tudor5150 — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 02:19:43 GMT

Like some of his other ads, this one just leaves you scratching your head. I mean they could have saved some time and said "Obama sucks" and "McCain really loves America." The presentation is just awful. Obviously, this is an ad for the media. It's so inside baseball, I don't think the average voter would have a clue what the statements about Obama mean. And really, does it do any good to argue he hasn't gone to Iraq while he is in Iraq? This one is so sloppy and the arguments so transparently phony that it leaves the door wide open for one of those "senseless attack" counter ads. It would go something like:

There the Republicans go again, launching another pointless attack ad. John McCain criticizes Obama for not holding hearings on Afghanistan even though he failed to attend any of 6 hearings held by the Armed Services Committee to which he belongs. Maybe that is why it took him so long to realize that more troops are needed there? He attacked Barack Obama for voting against a war funding bill even though he voted against a different bill that provided funding for the war and increased veteran's benefits. John McCain attacked Barack Obama for not going to Iraq sooner. Barack Obama didn't need to go to Iraq to know that the war was not necessary and would not make America safer. Going to Baghdad and proclaiming it safe doesn't make it so. Barack Obama will bring an end to war in Iraq and will not make permanent bases there. He will put more troops on the ground in Afghanistan to find Bin Laden and those who planned the attacks of 9/11. Barack Obama will fully support our troops and our veterans.

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

not.Brit — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 06:56:04 GMT

@ USAUK

So... you're not voting for Obama OR McCain? If I can be frank, I simply don't believe that you've ever crossed party lines in a presidential election. You hold a lot of anger and/or resentment toward Obama that's hard to understand, but aiming it at the author is misguided. Aiming at those of us who've commented is weird.

If you don't like Obama, volunteer for McCain. If you don't like McCain, volunteer for Bob Barr. If you are basically unconcerned with who wins the election at all, then who are you arguing with?

Regardless, and at the risk of being terribly rude, you may benefit from my comment on an earlier post: http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/07/18/what-mccain-is-reading-these-days.aspx#comments

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

esperanzanueva — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 07:54:44 GMT

Is he trying to frame Obama as a "no-nothing foreign-policy novice" or a "know-nothing foreign policy novice?" Hmm...

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

ralphied — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 09:06:20 GMT

I will withdrawing troops witin 16 mo after I get into office. I will have to make an evaluation before I withdraw troops. I like Rev Wright, I have been going to his church for 20 years. I dont like Rev anymore. Monday,I want open relations with Cuba. Tuesday, I dont want open relations with Cuba I was just kidding//////// Who am I. Hint I have very very little experience in world affairs. I have said Hello to two or three world leaders.

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

olderwiser — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:31:28 GMT

"No", for "know", is nothing gnu to the spell checker on a computer. Zounds rite.

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

olderwiser — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:46:01 GMT

When we were kids and it rained after a long summer drought, we would literally roll in the mud to celebrate. After rolling in it and throwing it at each other for a while, it seemed normal, compared to the first impression of filth. Since Karl Rove, we've gotten used to the mud and filth of the slander ads and it seems kind of normal. We don't pay much attention any more to such idiocy and just accept that something has to be done with the millions of campaign dollars instead of using it to inform us what a candidate is going to do. I do like the slight change, though. This time we are not being bombarded with all of the "sexual campaign issues" about people of the same gender partnering up and women "killing babies". After all of the filth that Rove threw at the opposition about sex and abortions trying to distract from the failures du jour, it's kind of refreshing to see only the simple slander back and forth directed at the two candidates. That's more like the old fashioned stuff that we're used to. America is back. This is our kind of mud.

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

olderwiser — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:48:28 GMT

We'll roll in it and throw it at each other until after the election, then hose down good, change clothes, and forget about it. Mud is just about the least memorable of the various smears.

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

PacificGatePost — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:08:12 GMT

POPPY FIELDS OF MASS DESTRUCTION ---- TIME TO AWAKEN

The beautiful and delicate poppy that now paints the landscapes of Afghanistan with vibrant colors, has long been the symbol for sacrifice. The aesthetic is as soothing to the sense of sight, as it is exasperating to the conscience.

http://pacificgatepost.blogspot.com/2008/04/poppy-fields-of-mass-destruction.html

Drastic action is required.

-------

On the HOME FRONT, WHILE OBAMA IS TRAVELING, .....

HILLARY MAY BE ANTICIPATING A DIFFERENT OUTCOME AT THE CONVENTION

The Democratic convention is not over and done with.

http://pacificgatepost.blogspot.com/2008/07/is-clintons-presidential-campaign.html

re: Ad Hawk: Bon Voyage, Barack!

mariadcruze — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:18:54 GMT

brack obama is the greatest presidental nominee since bill clinton.

He will win by a landslide in november.

he is handsom, smart and knows how to connect to people and he has good judgement and an excellent memory. That all you need to become president.

obama 08,12