The Berlin Effect

re: The Berlin Effect

chuckhasker@yahoo.com — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 00:57:21 GMT

Obama may have drawn a 200,000 or a million Germans to his speech and I as an American voter could have cared less. Obama and his staff seem to think big rallys, lofty speeches, and great photo ops make a man. A man is made by his actions, his deeds, and his ability to rise above the crowd. Obama has not done any of these things. He is held up by the new media giving glowing reports about poll numbers, crowds that attend speeches and screaming fans. But where is the man Obama. Looking back at his life over the past 20 years I hear and see a man listening to one of his best friends preach hatred for America and blames the government for the black communitys problems, I see people who have weaved in and out of Obama's life that are radicals and his responce about these people " I can't believe they have Changed." Maybe they have not changed maybe it is Obama that has Changed. Maybe he is trying to portray a picture of the perfect man, a man who is all things to all people all the time. In the short term it looks and sounds good. But in the long run the smiles will fade and the truth will surface and we will see Obama for who he is a man who has been lifted to heights that he can not sustain. I for one can not vote for some one who is paper thin. Chuck Hasker (I almost forgot. It was another good article Andrew.)

re: The Berlin Effect

Loden Green — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 01:58:13 GMT

It sure hasn't taken the same the media that is "in the tank" for Obama long to start dumbing down hiis trip to Europe and the mid-East.

re: The Berlin Effect

mbdougan@hotmail.com — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:05:07 GMT

If nothing else comes from Obamas meeting except the fact that it shows he is well liked abroad, then I applaud his visits overseas. Rght now America doesn't look good in the eyes of the European union and the rest of the world for that nature, any dialogue whether before during or after the elections is to be most welcomed. You cannot persuade other countries to work with us if we look and act like like imperialists, and you can bet that view of us would continue if McCain is elected, I doubt if he would have drawn more than 1,000 people simply due to the fact that he spouts more of the same, war, war ,war, and he can't even get the facts straight on the surge, which he is supposed to be the expert on. he constantly says the surge, the surge, hey McBush you got anything else?

re: The Berlin Effect

IELeibowitz — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:07:11 GMT

"According to the New Republic's John Judis, he 'remains the "mysterious stranger" rather than the "American Adam" to too many voters'-- that is, voters 'who are put off rather than attracted by his race and exotic background.'"

Yet again, voters wary of Obama are assumed as a lot to be so because of his race. Why is it that so many in the media and so many Obama supporters (the former of which all too often seems to overlap with the latter) cannot fathom that someone may hesitate to vote for Obama because (1) they simply do not agree with the man's ideas when he actually manages to articulate one instead of a hollow slogan, (2) they believe him to be unproven and inexperienced with no major congressional accomplishments to his name and not even having completed one full term as a US senator, and/or (3) they perceive the depth of his arrogant regard for himself and his own opinions to be far in excess of the length of his resume? Race undoubtedly remains a factor for a portion of the electorate's refusal to embrace Obama as the "American Adam" -- but there are plenty of reasons (or perhaps so little about his record) to justify him remaining a "mysterious stranger" to many others without ever referring to "his race or exotic background."

re: The Berlin Effect

mbdougan@hotmail.com — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:07:29 GMT

It appears Newsweek is as biased as fox news, so I doubt I'll see my last post. Prove me wrong...

re: The Berlin Effect

fireworksforjeffy — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:19:23 GMT

Christ almighty, 'he "remains the 'mysterious stranger' rather than the 'American Adam' to too many voters"' and using code words like 'exotic' for a foreign upbringing. Do you know how many Americans grew up overseas? Think of every kid of every serviceman or woman who was stationed as a family in Germany, Japan, Korea, the Phillipines... you say "exotic", but I grew up with a damn plethora of good, decent Americans who grew up the same. To suggest he's alien to the American way of life is to accept that we're too dumb to look around and see that there are plenty of us who had similar childhoods.

I hope you're wrong, Andrew. I'd hate to see an America so stuck in trembling out of fear of terrorism that we choose the man who mocks foreign deaths over the potential world statesman for our head of state.

re: The Berlin Effect

lilyrp — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:28:27 GMT

You imply that only people from the left find him "unforgivably presumptuous". I've been a democrat all my life AND I FIND HIM UNFORGIVABLY PRESUMPTUOUS. He’s all about image and most people (including yourself, stumper) bought right into it. He’s really good at it, as a marketing professional I give him an A++ in putting out a brand image that people would buy. But as a marketing professional I also know that how you sell a product and what a product actually is are two different things… his tactics to “position” himself as one thing or another, now that all the attention is on him, are becoming more apparent. I read an article about how he delegates most things, except copy for his commercials, press materials, etc. Really tells you where his priorities are. Good thing for him McCain is not up to the challenge, he’s just too much like Bush and America is ready for something different, so that’s what Obama offers. They say it’s better to be lucky than good, and Obama is a walking example of that (he won his senate seat by having his opponent withdraw at the last minute and the second guy not having much time to campaign) and now he’ll win it because the republican nominee, any nominee in this environment will have no shot. Good for him, I guess. And might as well, I think McCain is a good person but I completely disagree with the direction he would take the country. I guess Obama it is.

re: The Berlin Effect

Teri form Ohio — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:33:01 GMT

John McCain just sat down with NBC’s Kelly O’Donnell just an hour ago and she asked him about the transition team. And he said of course every campaign once you get to this stage, and you’re on the verge of securing your party’s nomination at the convention, you begin to think of how you transition to the presidency. McCain said that he, himself, was already of course working on policy and political proposals to they could hit the ground running. He’s spoken with his advisors about how exactly they would enact those proposals and enact the policies that are important to him.

re: The Berlin Effect

Alma — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:49:09 GMT

It is true. The republican machine are doing everything possible to discredit Obama which is a pitty. We have not had an intelligent president in the white house for 8 years. And it may happen again that the American public prefer to have an old man with no memory and the arrogance of the old days than a black outstanding man like Obama.

It is very sad how little we have come to appreciatte a free present when we get one...Even in Obama were not to win, he has made today an amazing job for the American people to enjoy in the future...an America respected in the world once again.

re: The Berlin Effect

HollyD27 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:55:05 GMT

I find it pathetic that Obama uses cheap tricks to get attention for just the right "photo op moment." The media fails to mention once again, that the Germany speach was in the middle of a ROCK CONCERT GIVEN WITH FREE BEER! THAT'S WHY THE LARGE CHEERING CROWD! Did only a handful of the media point this out? I just read it in one place! This goes to show that the media is BLATENTLY biased to Obama, trying to run roughshod over our right to vote for the President WE want. Not who the media wants. They don't care what or who Obama is, as long as the first black President is elected on their watch. And Obama? SHOWING THAT HE WILL USE ANY CHEAP TRICK AVAILABLE TO GET PEOPLE TO THINK HE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN HE IS! Showing once again, he is nothing but smoke and mirrors! What a complete and utter PHONEY!

re: The Berlin Effect

Equitas — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:56:45 GMT

To lilyrp:

If you've been a Democrat all your life, then how could you confuse the left-right spectrum?

Democrats are on the left, sweetheart. You meant to say "right" right?

re: The Berlin Effect

Alma — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:58:57 GMT

I think that people find Obama arrogant because he represents something trully unbelievable: A black person who trully does not feel less than whites; a person who feels an equal to everyone--high or low or whatever people compare themselves with. And I do not see it as arrogance...I see it as inner-security. His inner-security scares people who believes in hierachical ideas. I would call Lou Dobbs, Hannity, o'Reilly, and many evangelical priests arrogants...but not Obama.

re: The Berlin Effect

Alma — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:15:30 GMT

Republicans would love to have a young, strong, intelligent, strategic, honest, moral, and religious presidential candidate like Obama.

Envy is a mortal sin and yes, republican are so jelous...

re: The Berlin Effect

mjno — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:17:11 GMT

I find it way beyond belie that his manufactured WORLD TOUR was shoved down our throats. JFK and Reagan spoke as Presidents, not as nominees. This man thinks he can do anything, he violated the Logan Act.

Both Sidea Barack. Not a flip flopper who changes positions, he has both postions at THE SAME TIME

re: The Berlin Effect

mjno — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:19:03 GMT

I am a Democrat turned Independent (PUMA POWER), and my response to ALMA is Bobby Jindel; more experience and sharper than the stammerer without a teleprompter.

re: The Berlin Effect

IELeibowitz — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:29:34 GMT

Alma, you are fooling yourself if you think that all criticism of Obama can be explained away as "jealousy." Not everyone agrees with the adjectives that you use to describe Obama, and their reasons have nothing to do with "envy." Moreover, many people believing that Obama is arrogant has nothing whatsoever to do with his race, or his "inner security," or his supposed egalitarianism, or whatever else you are projecting on to him. Rather, they have heard what he has to say about himself, they have seen how his campaign projects him, and they have drawn a very different conclusion about the man's character than whatever hopes you have decided to place in him have led you to draw.

Go ahead and keep chalking up reservations about Obama to envy and race if it makes you feel more superior to those who oppose him, though. The arrogance of such an attitude would put you in good company with your candidate.

re: The Berlin Effect

IELeibowitz — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:32:23 GMT

Jindal needs a couple of successful terms as governor turning around the broken state of Louisiana before he is ready for prime time, mjno. In fact, I hope that McCain has the good sense not to tap him as a running mate for the very reason that, once Jindal busts out on to the national scene, I want him to be far more seasoned in reality than Obama claims to be.

re: The Berlin Effect

IELeibowitz — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:45:20 GMT

Teri, of course McCain is going to be asked about his transition team in an interview today -- because Obama's camp has already started the buzz about their man's team. Look, McCain is right, everyone knows that candidates are going to start thinking at this point about what happens if they wake up as the president-elect on November 5. Still, consider the context -- on the very day that Obama caps a glitzy world tour with a speech that his campaign clearly thought needed the same venue as two famous speeches by sitting presidents, they initiate a public conversation about his transition team. OK, we get it, the guy is trying to look presidential, and he is wanting to draw attention to himself -- all candidates seek to accomplish these things, but it is possible to go too far in doing so.

re: The Berlin Effect

logical_thinker_007 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:00:24 GMT

They say that if Obama ran in Germany, or pretty much any place in Europe, he'd win by 80%. What is so wrong with America? So many are asking: "Is he experienced enough?". Go to Obama's website and read his policies. Then go to McCain's. In a country that suffered TWO terms of GEROGE W. BUSH you still have over 40% of voters for the Republicans. McCain is not the real problem, it is the GOP agenda (corporate profits and endless fear and war above all) he brings with him, and the fact that he has sold out and turned into George W. Bush that is the problem.

After 8 years of the GOP, led by Bush, bankrupting the country with the Iraq war, giving borrowed Chinese money to the rich as tax cuts while regular people are getting kicked out of their homes and can't afford to go to the dentist or buy food, letting poisoned toys into the country, wrecking FEMA with political hack appointees, and the list goes on, how could McCain even be in the 40's? In any sane country in the world McCain and the GOP would be wiped out with 80% of the vote against them. Americans have allowed themselves to be sold on the notion that you can be rich and famous no matter how stacked the cards are against you in favour of Wall Street, the insurance companies, the drug companies and the military contractors that are the reason the US is constantly looking for people to fight (have to use up the missiles and weapons in order to justify buying more).

I guess it may again come down to "patriotism" (crashing the economy while yelling "Obama's not one of us"), flag pins, hatred and fear of the gays, religion etc. Meanwhile, the Republicans and their corporate buddies are stealing away the country. People advocate baninng abortion but then stand against providing health care for the mother and the kid. Do you really think that people who veto S-CHIP (health care for poor kids) really care about things like abortion?

The only cure for America is more education. Unfortunately, 40% of kids are dropping out of high school. I guess having an intelligent, sophisticated, worldly President would be "elitist". I don't know about you, but having a dumb guy did not work out so well, so take the risk, go for someone capable.

re: The Berlin Effect

rhatchman — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:10:55 GMT

Way to cherry pick those polls Andrew - you failed to mention that PPP had Obama up by 8 in Ohio just days before the Rasmussan poll came out. Furthermore by the polls mentioned by you on realclearpolitics (including once again Rasmussan) it is McCain who is actually losing ground in Florida and Obama gaining - but I guess that wouldn't help with your little crutch you seem determined to carry for the old confussed man.

re: The Berlin Effect

Lalita — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:21:33 GMT

Thank McCain for challenging Obama to visit Iraq and other foreign countries. McCain was the one who said that Obama does not have experience in foreign affairs. Obama goes out into the world and he "rocks". McCain is GREEN with ENVY with the positive response that Obama received, especially in Berlin.

re: The Berlin Effect

IELeibowitz — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:21:47 GMT

"I guess it may again come down to 'patriotism' (crashing the economy while yelling 'Obama's not one of us'), flag pins, hatred and fear of the gays, religion etc."

And Obama's supporters wonder why his detractors think he -- and everyone else like him who views the world as being either for Obama or bitter -- are arrogant.

re: The Berlin Effect

jac66 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:42:13 GMT

way to go ieliebowitz, instead of the arrogant statement do you mean to say Obama is an uppity N****R. He's probably thinking from the WHITE SIDE of his brain. More power to him, he has every right to aspire to the higheest office in the land this is America so i'm told. He'd make a better president than that low achiever in the naval academy(4th from the bottom of 800+)McCain, besides if his grandfather/father admirals didn't have pull McCain would have been out on his keester for sleeping off an allnight drunk instead of showing up for military business. The reason McCain was captured is because he had to show off by pulling a wing dip, he couldn't just follow orders to drop the bombs and push off. McCain is the arrogrant one in my book.

re: The Berlin Effect

GCJP — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:50:56 GMT

Obama I believe is a flash in a pan. Backed by all of major news outlets in our country show who they want for President. His vist overseas these past few days is a waste of money donated by the Democratic Party. The people that he talked to can not vote in American!!!! Simply saying he was in the wrong Nations.

When he comes back home he, the Democtatic Party and the press will have a great party and will find Obama with a very little lead over McCain. You better take a good look at these polls.

re: The Berlin Effect

IELeibowitz — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:00:48 GMT

"McCain was the one who said that Obama does not have experience in foreign affairs."

This trip probably does not change people's opinions much on this point. Obama foreign policy experience is now now one political junket and a few votes in the four years he has been in the US Senate. His supporters already thought much of those few votes as extremely important indicators of their guy's wisdom in foreign affairs before he went abroad, and this trip confirms whatever good opinion they had about him previously. His detractors already thought that being able to count the number of Obama's noteworthy practical experiences in foreign policy with just one hand were indicators of how inexperienced he is in this areas, and this trip just looks like an electioneering photo-op to them. About this, Andrew Romano is right -- this trip was not for the sake of either of these groups, it was for the undecideds out there. Whether or not *they* think he "rocks" with this trip is what matters, and both Obama and McCain know it.

re: The Berlin Effect

topcat2001 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:07:40 GMT

Only in America is a candidate who draws 200,000K people abroad ridiculed for it. For those of us who live in THIS world this is important as it puts us in a much stronger position when negotiating with world leaders.

Ofcourse for the those who live in "Planet America" it is more important to have a photo op with the 5 employees of Bob's diner in Berlin, VA just so we can thumb our noses at the rest of the world and the Europeans. Even as the dollar plumets against the euro, we spend most of our budget sending money to the oil companies and the Saudis, all our jobs get shipped overseas, our assets get bought by the Arabs and our enormous debt is serviced by China, Russia and Japan.

I hope these idiots get their wish and McCain becomes President and continues the wild ride to becoming a third world nation.

re: The Berlin Effect

IELeibowitz — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:11:32 GMT

"way to go ieliebowitz, instead of the arrogant statement do you mean to say Obama is an uppity N****R."

Yes, jac66, that is exactly what I am thinking when I say that. You have me completely figured out as someone who is incapable of analyzing a candidate or someone who disagrees with me from any perspective but race and who cannot judge a person or that person's positions by the content of his or her character rather than the color of his or her skin. Obviously, you do not suffer from this defect, as your remark clearly demonstrates how you have moved beyond looking at the world in racialist terms. I must add that I am always amazed at the fact that Obama's supporters are so intelligent -- just like him, of course -- that they can read the minds of anyone who does not agree with them.

re: The Berlin Effect

IELeibowitz — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:21:50 GMT

"Only in America is a candidate who draws 200,000K people abroad ridiculed for it."

You think so? I can imagine how the more rough-and-tumble press in some European countries would react if one of their candidates for highest office traveled to the United States in the middle of a heated campaign before having attained office and attracted the largest crowd of her or his political career there. I suspect you would have similar reactions of supporters thinking this signifies their candidate's broad appeal and the right-minded thinking of Americans, detractors wondering why Americans are so worked up about a mere political candidate and a little worried that their enthusiasm for the person may not be in the best interests of the country doing the voting, and others just plain scratching their heads in puzzlement before moving on to matters of more immediate concern at home.

re: The Berlin Effect

logical_thinker_007 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:34:12 GMT

To IELeibowitz:

"why Americans are so worked up about a mere political candidate and a little worried that their enthusiasm for the person may not be in the best interests of the country doing the voting"

So, you think McBush is working in the best interest of America? Bin Laden could never in his wildest dreams have hoped to get America $4 Trillion more in debt, pretty much collapse the Dollar, kill 4500 soldiers and injure 30,000 more in Iraq, let Afghanistan fester, and so on. If you think that Bush and the GOP, and once-somewhat-admirable McCain work in America's best interest then you need to check your facts.

Also, you seem to be attacking pretty much everyone in this blog but I don't hear ANY solutions from you.

For the record, here's what Obama will bring: more affordable health care, action against climate change (but of course, the scientists are making stuff up so we shouldn't listen?), less corporate fraud (i.e. housing mess), the discontinuation of torture (hopefully), and a better education system...if he can achieve only 10% of what he promises he may be able to bring America from the brink of becoming a third world country where major bridges fall down due to a lack of maintenance and New Orleans still looks like a war zone.

re: The Berlin Effect

citron16 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:46:31 GMT

The only reason there were that many people there in Germany is because 2 of the most popular rock groups were performing there!! Just like when Obama was running against Hillary when he had all the people in the crowd there for his speechs he bused in the college kids from all the near by collecges. Obama is a joke!!!

re: The Berlin Effect

mj it — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:15:38 GMT

Give it up Citron -- you're jealous. The Europeans recognize a great leader - and Americans need one desperately. Obama is our last chance to save our standing in the world. McCain will stay Bush's course - driving us into the ground.

re: The Berlin Effect

peaceofmind — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:53:17 GMT

Well McCain made the challenge and Obama followed through.

Bring on those Town Halls now and have them be "live: so the media can't edit McCain's words out when he says things wrong.

Maybe McCain can repeat his great Dairy Store speech and explain further what he was really tring to say.

We:ll see who speaks with a clearer train of thought. I want to hear McCain try to explain his policies in his own words.

re: The Berlin Effect

Dollared — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:58:52 GMT

Andrew is truly a rookie reporter who lives for the man bites dog story. However, men generally do not bite dogs, and the job of a political reporter is to give us all some meaning from all the noise, not do gratuitous contrarianism in the vain hope of pumping the numbers.

The meaning here is pretty clear. The poll numbers are stable, and Obama is winning. McCain is getting a lot of coverage for his random attacks and his consistent pattern of making *** up. He is beginning to appear to be a congenital liar.

Obama walked through all the toughest parts of the world, and called it right in every place. Iraq wants us out, and the Republicans have been exposed as imperialist fools from 1.1 centuries ago. Afghanistan really is a mess, largely due to Bush's mismanagement, with McCain's support. Israel and Palestine need a firm, consistent, patient hand from the US, and Obama will provide it. And Europe has been waiting for the US to dump Bush and come to its senses, and is waiting to help us if we play ball. And Obama showed the undecideds that he's ready, the world''s ready, and that he is a far better alternative than more of the same from "we coulda won Vietnam!" McCain.

More *** will fly, most of it from the right and all of it very dirty, but the trend is clear. Andrew, spend some time preparing us for the change, rather than trying to convince us that we are reeeeeeeeaaaaalllllyyyyyy in a big-time horse race.

re: The Berlin Effect

Perusing-through — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 07:20:17 GMT

MORE McCAIN HYPOCRISY

McCain insinuates Obama was wrong for making speech overseas before ascending to the presidency. Limbaugh accused Obama of dancing in the end-zone.

Then what do you call McCain’s activity when he made a speech in Canada about his unconditional support for NAFTA. Then he followed that up with a ‘not-so-coincidental’ trip to Columbia and Mexico just as Ingrid Betancourt and the hostages were rescued.

McCain’s jealousy is pathetically blatant, because Obama draws 200,000 in Berlin and McSame can barely muster 200 homeless drunks between Canada and Mexico.

re: The Berlin Effect

Perusing-through — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:49:10 GMT

Hi Andrew,

I’m replying with concerns that I may be misunderstood. But I’m not sure when there is a better time to “tell it like it is”.

* * * IMAGES CONJURE UP THOUHGTS!! * * *

Like it or not, for a lot of people, especially White voters over the age of 55, the image of a Black (Biracial) man holding the highest office in the United States as Commander-in-Chief is downright freaky. Most White voters that feel that way will never publicly admit that (unless you are that 20% from Appalachia that is d**n proud of it).

Andrew Romano, no disrespect meant but I’m not sure you are old enough to remember how things were just a generation ago. It was only three score years ago when Branch Rickey had the audacity to field a Jackie Robinson on a Major League diamond. That freaked White America out. People were truly and honestly scared. What people feared at that time, I still have not figured out but that was a very scary times for many Whites. And when the six Black Arkansas students broke the color barrier and went to an all White school, White Americans again freaked.

You people in the media make excuses that “people still needs to get to know Obama”, and “Obama is different”, and “there may be some cultural differences”. All this does is masks the real issues which is the REMAINING RESIDUE OF RACIAL BIASES FROM THE JIM CROW ERA.

I acknowledge there are a number of ideological, philosophical, and political differences as to why many Whites Americans cannot vote for Senator Obama. Fair enough. What I refuse to do is put my head in the sand and pretend RACIAL differences is not a primary factor causing a significant percentage of Whites not to vote for the smartest, wisest, highly skilled, thoughtful, energetic, gifted, charismatic, handsome, organized, virtuous, politically savvy, Ivy-Leaguer, and Christian leading presidential candidate the nation has seen since Abraham Lincoln.

And this is at a time when most Americans see the obvious and that is John McCain is really hurting. McCain has two or three significant gaffes per day. No disrespect is meant but he is struggling to keep up. He is bungling and stumbling everyday. And ironically at least 20%-to-40% of White Appalachia would still vote this “bungling gaffe-machine” in office, just because the best person for the job is Biracial.

re: The Berlin Effect

Morgan2008 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:54:28 GMT

Obama's campaign is like a traveling circus. It is easy to see that Barack Obama is so egotistical he likes to be the center of attention and prefers to speak to huge crowds. This type of forum gives him complete control over his scripted message and gives him a better chance of covering up his lack of experience and knowledge while showing off his speeches. Perhaps Obama should be a world crusader and run around the world pitching his tent and giving his "Citizen of the World" speeches. Does Obama and his campaign actually believe that drawing a crowd in Berlin to listen to Obama speak will make him appear more qualified in foreign policy and more presidential to Americans? I doubt it very much! Obama's over the top ego is a complete turn off to many Americans. It is all smoke and mirrors and a big show with Obama. I think Obama should wear a Tee-shirt that says, " My name is Barack Obama and It is all about me". As an American citizen and someone who has traveled around the world and to the middle east and traveled to Europe many times, I would be happy if Obama moved to another country in the world and they can vote for him to be their president if they like him. For the United States of America president I prefer Hillary Clinton or John McCain as a vote against Obama. Hillary Clinton and/or John McCain would not put their political ambitions ahead of our country.

re: The Berlin Effect

Perusing-through — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:55:36 GMT

Hi Andrew,

I’m replying with concerns that I may be misunderstood. But I’m not sure when there is a better time to “tell it like it is”.

IMAGES CONJURE UP THOUHGTS!!

Andrew Romano, no disrespect meant but I’m not sure you are old enough to remember how things were just a generation ago. It was only three score years ago when Branch Rickey had the audacity to field a Jackie Robinson on a Major League team. That freaked White America out. People were truly and honestly scared. What people feared at that time, I still have not figured out but that was a very scary times for many Whites. And when the six Black Arkansas students broke the color barrier and went to an all White school, White Americans again freaked.

I acknowledge there are a number of ideological, philosophical, and political differences as to why many Whites Americans cannot vote for Senator Obama. Fair enough. What I refuse to do is put my head in the sand and pretend RACIAL differences is not a primary factor causing a significant percentage of Whites not to vote for the smartest, wisest, highly skilled, thoughtful, energetic, gifted, charismatic, handsome, organized, virtuous, politically savvy, Ivy-Leaguer, and people leading presidential candidate the nation has seen since Abraham Lincoln.

This is why Senator Obama had to do the “GET TO KNOW ME FOREIGN TOUR”. IT IS FOR ALL THE PEOPLE HAVING A HARD TIME IMAGINING A BIRACIAL PRESIDENT AS U.S. COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF.

re: The Berlin Effect

chuckhasker@yahoo.com — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:07:44 GMT

re: The Berlin Effect

nana4 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:59:20 GMT

This is truly the most expensively wrapped PR package in the history of American politics. I would prefer to respect and honor this man for his lifetime, to date, of contributions in service to others rather than to himself. There are innumerable ways in which he could have done something more. Even in his State and US Senate "career", he has nothing with which to show for his time spent there. This is all about placing the first black President in office. This is an admirable goal if the first black man had something of substance. While he travels the world showing us that he can be "presidential" in appearances, those who will vote for him, still do not know him. What we know is cause for alarm and concern. Just about anything would be an improvement to what we have; what a prime opportunity for an opportunist. This is "payback" for the really poor decision American voters made in the last 2 elections. We should have known better then and we surely should have learned some lesson from that.

re: The Berlin Effect

SAGG — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:10:41 GMT

My brother, a black Republican who had been recently retired from the military, told me something interesting: He said that the United States is the most patriotic, racist country on Earth. After reading your article, I'm inclined to agree more and more. I have every intention of voting for Obama, but I also have to keep a realistic attitiude about white folks in this country. Despite the miserable economy, many would STILL vote for McCain, and use their "familiarity" with him as an excuse, with most dying to their last breath arguing Obama's biracial origins having nothing to do with them not voting for him, when basically it has EVERTYTHING to do with it. The McCain sympathizers are nasty and scary to me, far more than the Obama ones. But basically the McCain supporters do this because of one thing: They're scared. Scared of change, ceding whatever power they may think they have in this country, whatever, you name it. I have some hope that if nothing else, most whites (or just enough of them) will vote for Obama because they agree with him more than McCain. If not, then I think it's our country's loss. McCain's sold himself out to the Bush policies, period. He's NOT the John McCain of old (no pun intended). Then again, despite the new polls of McCain's gain in some states, it's still July, and in politics, that's an eternity. Check back in late October, and we'll see what's what. Obama speaks of hope--and I'm applying that same hope to many voters, particularly whites, that they'll see past their prejudices, and vote for Obama.

re: The Berlin Effect

llrine1 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:13:56 GMT

Obama is very goo politician,phony high on all of his accomlishments,whatever they are?I don't see obama as taken very seriously by the true leaders of the world ,even though he thinks and speaks as though he is already president ,come on pAmericans this has been notng moe than a senator of a small stae for a few years ,yet he get's news media coverage like he is in his second term as president .Don't be duped by this senator who likes too believe he is already presideny.............Obama Hell NO!

re: The Berlin Effect

llrine1 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:18:23 GMT

Obama you are just a senator that knows nothing about foreign policy or any thing except how too smile and show up at the righjt places at the right time ,jesse Jackson would have never said in public how he and lot's of other people really feel thanks Jesse although you are ashamed you were on mic I'm not........Obama NOOOOOOOOOOOO

re: The Berlin Effect

llrine1 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:22:38 GMT

Obama knows p.T.barnum very well,there is one born every second ,huh barack huh?

re: The Berlin Effect

llrine1 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:24:55 GMT

At least McCain has some real acomplisments in his life ,obama naaaaaaa!

re: The Berlin Effect

Obama Drama — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:48:21 GMT

McCain is this country's best chance of bringing the war to an end , getting along with other countries, and our economy - WHY? Because McCain cares for everyone and duhbama only cares for himself. duhbama has one goal. For himself, by himself. McCain is a more down to earth person. I think alot of people have seen this over the last few days.

re: The Berlin Effect

Obama Drama — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:01:03 GMT

Obama was a snake charmer in his previous live

re: The Berlin Effect

Obama Drama — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:09:34 GMT

"Obama with the World Watching" - TO SEE JUST HOW STUPID THE UNITED STATES CITIZENS ARE TO VOTE FOR HIM - LOL

re: The Berlin Effect

IELeibowitz — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:25:46 GMT

logical_thinker_007,

You need to try harder to live up to the name you have chosen as your handle. You quoted only part of my sentence. Here is what I wrote in full, describing the expected range of reactions of Europeans if one of their political candidates came to the US and drew a crowd of 200,000 Americans:

"I suspect you would have similar reactions of supporters thinking this signifies their candidate's broad appeal and the right-minded thinking of Americans, detractors wondering why Americans are so worked up about a mere political candidate and a little worried that their enthusiasm for the person may not be in the best interests of the country doing the voting, and others just plain scratching their heads in puzzlement before moving on to matters of more immediate concern at home."

I wrote a description of how reactions would likely breakdown back in the candidate's country, and you have a conniption and believe you need to rush to the defense of Obama... because somebody opined that European responses to one of their candidates doing something similar would likely resemble those of the Obama supporters, Obama detractors, and undecideds in this case.

What exactly is objectionable with this observation? Can you not brook someone pointing out any candidate, even those in foreign countries -- and, yes, even Obama -- have people that are for, against, or not decided about him or her?

re: The Berlin Effect

flamingo123 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:05:45 GMT

I would describes Obama as a person with delusion of grandeur. He thinks, talks, and acts like he is the President of the United States. You might be surprise what hit you comes November.

re: The Berlin Effect

SJ71 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:26:39 GMT

SAGG: It is ridiculuous for you to asert that a white person's vote for McCain is rooted in racism and fear of change. Based on your comments, it's easy to conclude that you see the white population here in America as largely racist, which is absurd. I'm white, and I have news for you. If Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, or J.C. Watts (I really like this guy) were running for President, via either political party, I wouldn't hesistate one second to vote for any of them. For me, and for many other white conversatives in this country, this isn't about race. It's about policies!!! I like Obama the man, but I fundamentally oppose his political stances. He plans to raise the top two marginal tax rates, which will increase the tax burden on small business owners, like myself. So what, you say? Well, I've created 75 high paying jobs over the past 3 years since starting my business. Have you done something similar? Have your risked your personal capital and credit to start a new venture and create jobs? I degress, so let my get back on point. I fundamentally oppose his philosophies on taxes, healthcare, education, energy, and foreign policy. And that is why I won't be voting for him. So please quit seeing "racism" in white people's opposition to him. That's too easy of an excuse to explain why they plan to vote for McCain.

re: The Berlin Effect

Politicswithagrin — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:33:56 GMT

Right now, Obama's trip does have an "I'm already president" feel to it. But come November, with this trip behind him, that feel may be gone. All that we may be left with is the recollection that Obama has traveled and met with world leaders -- that he is not naive and ignorant. His strategy may be, closer to voting time, to scale down the self-aggrandizing. If his arrogance peaks now, the impression left after memories have faded may just be that he has experience in foreign affairs.

http://politicswithagrin.blogspot.com

re: The Berlin Effect

Berlin1964 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:46:10 GMT

"I find it pathetic that Obama uses cheap tricks to get attention for just the right "photo op moment." The media fails to mention once again, that the Germany speach was in the middle of a ROCK CONCERT GIVEN WITH FREE BEER! THAT'S WHY THE LARGE CHEERING CROWD!

@HollyD27 You are wrong and missinformed! There was no Concert or anything else which attracted the people. This 200.000 people from several countries and 4.7 Million others (in Germany) in Front of th TV-Sets wanted to see and hear what Mr. Obama had to say. That`s the only Reason why they came at that time to that place!!

The people from Berlin are very interested in american politics because we owe to the Americans very much. So we have a very special Relationship to your country. It hurted the people in this town and Country, when the Bush administration against all understanding and against the will of 186 other Nations on Planet earth went to war against Irak (by the we didn`t like Sadam to). After that he tried do devide Europe in old and new.......

Also was it much disturbing he did not want to ratify teh Kioto Protokoll. One can say the people in Europe don`t understand your President and the the large majority don´t likes him. We europeans and a lot of other Word-Citizens really want the US to return back home in the world community, respecting other oppinions, being an ethical and moral world-leader (which your country was in former times) and trying to solve the big big Problems of this Planet in Partnership with all the willing people on this planet. And now we are at your candidates.

Nobody knows Obama, but he is young, powerfull, he seems to be honest and he says the right things and last but not least he is sympatic. That`s what drew 200.000 to the Tiergarten!

If he will make a good Job as President you will see when he is the President. When G.W was the candidate everybody knew (with the exception of 50 % of your countrymen) that this would be a desaster. So what is better!?. Obama seems to be a good Promise in my eyes.

John Mc Cain seems to be an honest guy, he is also straight out but he is very old and he still wants to fight the Irak War until the End.Its largest error from view of the Europeans is, that he is an republican (not because of the republicans but because people like Bush, Cheney and so on are members of that party).

What is the End an when will it be? How many more of your young man have to die until this end? how many more should be injured at body and soul and what victory shall it be in IRAK. And how many more billion dollars you want to throw out of the window, while your economy is suffering such a hard time.

By my German-European eyeglasses I see the larger promise for a good transatlantic partnership, an economic upswing and more justice in your country in Obama.

So its your Choice. Choose well!!! We hope much that this choice is won by arguments and not by skin color, origin and prejudices. Greetinx von Berlin and godd luck to all of You!

re: The Berlin Effect

SJ71 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:00:34 GMT

Berlin1964: First off, thank you for giving everyone here on this blog a very different perspective on our race for President. I very much appreciate the gratitude you expressed for all of the good that our country has done for Germany in the past. We don't hear that often from folks over in Europe. As the grandson of a great man who fought and was injured in Europe during WW II, your remarks were very uplifting... Now, back to the politics! I wanted to address your comment on Kyoto. Please understand that many of us here in America are committed to reducing greenhouse gases, but not at the expense of damaging our economy. The Kyoto Protocol would have exempted China and India (two of the biggest polluters) from any reductions, while forcing the U.S. to drastically reduce carbon emmissions at the expense of countless jobs being lost. Now, I know the argument from the other side is that China and India have a right to develop their economies just as the U.S. has done over the past two centuries. But I find that argument hypocritical. If you are truly worried about our environment, and you believe carbon emmisions are responsible for global warming and thus damaging the planet, then ALL COUNTRIES should be required to reduce greenhouse gases.

re: The Berlin Effect

Berlin1964 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:18:59 GMT

QSJ71 : hypocritical. If you are truly worried about our environment, and you believe carbon emmisions are responsible for global warming and thus damaging the planet, then ALL COUNTRIES should be required to reduce greenhouse gases.

Of course, but the world leading power has to march in Front, otherwise nobody else will follow!

The economy is one thing, the healthy of this Planet an other. As we have to notice the resources are not endless, the climate change is dramatic (look at all those Weather Effects in your country), there are more and more people on this Planet who want all the same that we allready have. I think the lives of all of us will change rapidly within next 10 Years. We must learn to share and we have to find answers to the Problems we already have and to those who will come!!! So we realy count on You.

Greetinx

re: The Berlin Effect

IELeibowitz — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:25:40 GMT

"There was no Concert or anything else which attracted the people."

Actually, the English edition of the German news magazine Der Spiegel reported the following on its "Obama Live Ticker:"

++ Pop Concert for Obama Fans ++

6:33 p.m.: The tens of thousands of Obama fans are being entertained as they await the senator. The reggae musician Patrice kicked things off, followed by the rock band Reamonn.

----------

That Obama's speech was preceded by two concerts is a fact. I have no idea how many people came primarily for the concerts or needed them as an extra incentive to show up; some likely were lured there by the music, but most were undoubtedly there to hear the gospel of the messiah and future president of the world. Whatever the concerts might have contributed to the size of the crowds, Obama nevertheless had a good day yesterday looking presidential, adding one more item to his otherwise small list of foreign affairs credentials, and making his case to all of those adoring Germans who won't be voting in this election.

re: The Berlin Effect

SJ71 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:32:01 GMT

Berlin1964: I don't believe the climate change is as dramatic as you portray it. This planet went through many cycles of severe climate changes long before the U.S. started building factories and driving cars. A few years ago we had a record number of hurricanes, and all the "alarmists" on global warming kept screaming that we could expect more. Well, these past few years since then we've had very mild hurricane seasons. In fact, new evidence is showing that the Arctic Cap is beginning to expand again, after contracting for the a while... As for your comment about "we must learn to share", I'm very curious what you mean by that. The U.S. is one of the most generous countries in the world. We gave over $10 billion dollars to combat AIDS and malaria in Africa. We as a people donated hundreds of millions of dollars to relief efforts follwoing the massive Tsunami that hit Asia a few years back. But I refuse to apologize for the wealth and the standard of living we have created in this country. We didn't take it from anyone. We built it through ingenuity and hard work, all on the foundation of freedom and democracy.

re: The Berlin Effect

Berlin1964 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:53:58 GMT

Posted By: IELeibowitz (July 25, 2008 at 11:25 AM)

"There was no Concert or anything else which attracted the people."

Again, this was not the reason to come for the people (i eaven don`t know this musicians). The people were maintained, while they waited for Mr. Obama. Some of them where waiting for 8 hours! Believe it or not!!! People came from other Citys and Countrys to listen to Mr. Obama. This world needs a change in the spirit and a new start into American / European relationship. The people were simply only curious about , what an American presidential candidate had to say!

So you can be pride, that an american citizen drew more people than any other german Politician in history after WWII. And you can also be pride on the fact that people use the freedom, which was given to them by your country to get informed about the thoughts and feelings of one of your candidates.!

Bye

re: The Berlin Effect

Berlin1964 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:07:51 GMT

SJ71 (July 25, 2008 at 11:32 AM)

Climate change: I think we don´t have to discuss this. One of us will be right in the end and i hope that will be you!

sharing : there will be other dimensions in the future. Your country gave a lot of money for the right things in the past. So did Germany. But it probably won´t be enough. we gone see that.

I did not expect you to apologize for a single thing. Your county, your decisions, your way.......

It was nice to change some thoughts with you. I have to leave now! In English

I wish you a beautiful life!

Greetinx

re: The Berlin Effect

Evax — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:14:15 GMT

Obama wins support not only from Germany, but also from Hamas. Can Americans take the risk to elect a president who is favored by our enemies or hostile foreigners who curse the U.S.?

re: The Berlin Effect

sjpersonal — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:20:47 GMT

To: Berlin1964,

Thank you and your fellow countrymen for receiving Senator Obama so graciously. I and I am sure that most of his supporters agree with you regarding "This world needs a change in the spirit and a new start into American / European relationship"

Again, thank you and be well

re: The Berlin Effect

mcleodmn — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:31:30 GMT

I am stupified by republicans. Your religious beliefs are suffocating this country. Religion is suffocating the world.

My God is better!

No, Mine is better!

NO, MINE IS!

NO, MINE!

I'm going to kill you now!

Oh, yeah? We'll I'm going you kill you and your family!

Well, I'm going to strap a bomb to myself and blow up a cafe you like!

Fine! Then I'm going to fly planes over your country and drop huge bombs and kill everyone!

Meanwhile, Darwin is laughing at us for being so stupid.

Killin' n drillin' - McCain08

re: The Berlin Effect

Wiesbaden — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:40:52 GMT

Regarding the following post:

"Posted By: HollyD27 (July 24, 2008 at 10:55 PM)

I honestly cannot believe some of the BS that people throw up....I live in Germany and was in Berlin and I can assure you, there was no free beer in Berlin for the Obama speech (i wish there was), and with regards music before.....the acts are hardly the biggest in Germany, and if anything the crowd only grew to the full compliment when it neared the time for Obamas appearance.....so cut the BS eh....

re: The Berlin Effect

summer4077 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:20:28 GMT

Wasn't Andrew Romano a big Clinton supporter before she lost the nomination? I could be wrong. But, if I'm not, seems like his Obama-bashing is just sour grapes.

re: The Berlin Effect

thehappyamerican — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:35:15 GMT

Obama isn't getting "Foreign Policy" credits, no matter how many foreigners he uses as adoring- Munchkin props in Euro-Oz. He spoke of the extremism behind terrorism but he did not specify ISLAMIC extremism.

This is his "out" for his returning to the US and then suggesting it's Republican "extremism" that's the problem, world wide! As he most certainly will do. And he won't waist much time getting to it!

It will dovetail with the DNCs on-going Americans Suck First campaign.

This guy is the Obamanut Cake Of The World.

re: The Berlin Effect

Bass Pro — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:42:29 GMT

If this was a boxing match they would stop it and raise Barack's hand. This has got to be a nightmare for the mouth-breathing, out of touch Right Wing. The Party of Lincoln will be relegated to third party status in the next few elections. Life is too too good.

re: The Berlin Effect

citron16 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:52:58 GMT

It has been learned that before the presumptive Democrat nominee skoke to a crowd in Berlin Tuesday, two popular German acts -- Reggae artist Patrice and rock band Reamonn. Thats mainly what the crowd was there for and Obama handed out the flags. But as usual the media is not reporting this, and then the media says they are not bias!!

re: The Berlin Effect

citron16 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:19:47 GMT

Harley : what I brought to everyones attention was the people came for the Rock bands and that Obama's people handed out the flags. Obama will do anything to make himself look good.

Also let me ask you, you support Obama because you think he will bring the troops home. How do you fell about him talking about sending the troops to Afgan and telling Iran they should take the deal the european nations are offering them because the next president of the United States could make worse threats to them, and of course he is talking about himself!!! Since all you want is for the troops to be brought home how do you feel about the way Obama is talking now!! About sending troops to Afgan and possibly to Iran if he becomes president.

re: The Berlin Effect

mcleodmn — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:23:24 GMT

citron16 - Your an idiot. The media isn't reporting it because it's a steamy sack of BS. According to the ridiculousness of your allegations, your simple mind isn't capable of producing rational thought.

re: The Berlin Effect

Bass Pro — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:31:20 GMT

Should I click on the REPORT ABUSE box? Because Obama is seriously abusing McCain and his mouth-breathing supporters. McCain has fallen and can't get up.

re: The Berlin Effect

pyramid — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:40:01 GMT

Mcleodmn: I think you are the idiot!! I have friends living in Berlin and these very popular rock bands were there and Obama's people did hand out the flags! Maybe you should check things out before you speak about BS cause thats waht your comment is!

re: The Berlin Effect

Bass Pro — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:53:28 GMT

Obama has 238 electoral votes all from Blue and Light Blue States.

McCain has 163 electoral votes all from Red and light red states.

There are 11 states classified as up for grabs.

Obama leads in Rasmussen polling (I'm using a Republican Bias Pollster) Mich. Colo. Nev. N.Mex. Ohio. Ind. N.Hamp.Va. Fl. and Mo. They have a total Electoral Vote of 122. That makes it Obama 360 Electoral Votes.

McCain's only up for grab state in which he leads is N Car. which has 15 electoral votes. that makes McCain's total 178 electoral votes.

360 to 178!!!!!!!!!! I'll giv ehte mouth-breathing Righties until September to start distancing themselves from him. I predict ass-bites like debunked, Holyroller and citron16 will be among the first to run from him like he has the plague. Life is extremely good today.

re: The Berlin Effect

citron16 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:08:01 GMT

Democratic Sen. Barack Obama, nearing the end of a fast-paced international campaign trip, warned Iran on Friday, "don't wait for the next president" to take office before yielding to Western demands to dismantle its nuclear weapons program.

This is in the Chicago Tribune today!!!

re: The Berlin Effect

citron16 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:21:30 GMT

Obama has said that he palns on pulling the troops out of Iraq in about 16 months if he is elexcted and if he needs to he can always send the troops back.

McCain said he now palns on pulling the troops out of Iraq before the end of his first term. When he pulls them out of Iraq he will pull them out when it's time to pull them out and then will not have to send them back in like Obama suggests!

re: The Berlin Effect

citron16 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:27:14 GMT

DENVER, CO -- McCain gave a speech here today at the American GI Forum National Convention that served as a wide-ranging defense of his position on the Iraq war -- as well as a biting condemnation of Obama’s war policy.

“Sen. Obama and I also faced a decision, which amounted to a real-time test for a future commander-in-chief,” McCain said of the 2007 debate over the surge. “America passed that test. I believe that my judgment passed that test. And I believe that Sen. Obama's failed.”

According to McCain, American voters should look at how the two candidates’ handled that decision and use that to make their decisions in November. “Because of the choice we made and all the surge has accomplished, the time will soon come when our troops can come home,” he said.

“But we face another choice today. We can withdraw when we have secured the peace and the gains we have sacrificed so much to achieve are safe. Or we can follow Sen. Obama's unconditional withdrawal and risk losing the peace even if that results in spreading violence and a third Iraq war. Sen. Obama has suggested he would consider sending troops back if that happened. When I bring them home in victory and with honor, they are staying home.”

This is from MSNBC Site today!!!

re: The Berlin Effect

mcleodmn — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:29:25 GMT

Posted By: pyramid (July 25, 2008 at 4:40 PM)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So 200,000 people from across europe just decided to stick around after hearing their band play? Let me guess, there was 2 million people there during the concerts, but 1.8 million decided to leave as soon as the bands were done. And the cheering and screaming of his name was piped in, right? Oh, and they all got free beer.

I stand corrected. Your pearls of wisdom are mystifying.

re: The Berlin Effect

mcleodmn — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:04:16 GMT

Harleyishere-

McCain say's "I had a head ache, so I took some of the pills Cindy stole from the charity"

Obama say's "Maybe you should stop making gaffes and admit you have alzhiemers"

McCain say's "Where am I? Who are you? I just pooped my pants."

Obama.... *sigh* "Maybe Mr. Hannity will change your diaper"

re: The Berlin Effect

notroubleatall1963 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:16:23 GMT

Teddy Roosevelt (R) was even younger than Barack Obama (or President Kennedy) when he took the office of President.

You didn't see any "inexperience" reflected in his actions as President.

GOBAMA '08

re: The Berlin Effect

Bass Pro — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:14:00 GMT

citron16 Are you saying McCain set a time table of 4 years?

re: The Berlin Effect

olderwiser — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:02:29 GMT

Somehow the words "victory" and "defeat" are bandied about when talking about Iraq. What do they mean? How are they defined? How do you know when you have won. And how do they know when they have been defeated?

re: The Berlin Effect

olderwiser — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:05:43 GMT

There are those who say today that we didn't lose the Viet Nam war, but that we just left before the victory was achieved. Okay. At least that's something. Now, how about Iraq? Help me out here.

re: The Berlin Effect

olderwiser — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:07:55 GMT

If we left Iraq tomorrow, could we just say that victory was inevitable, and that we just left early because we didn't want them to have to suffer through the rest of it?

re: The Berlin Effect

olderwiser — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:10:25 GMT

Now, Afghanistan is different. We pledged to get Osama Ben Laden. That is not a bad goal. It would in itself constitute victory. We could come home from there with victory. Just catch Ben Laden. Dead or alive was promised, I believe. That'd be a wrap.

re: The Berlin Effect

olderwiser — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:12:08 GMT

But, if we brought Ben Laden home in a casket, he would not be photographed. That is our rule. We would just have to take someone's word for it. Maybe an eyewitness could tell us about it on the radio.

re: The Berlin Effect

olderwiser — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:13:15 GMT

It is forbidden to show war dead coming home from these wars. No Ben Laden, either, when we bring him home.

re: The Berlin Effect

olderwiser — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:16:18 GMT

Wars are so tricky. But, the trickiest war we probably ever have in our whole history is the Iraq War, from start. I am not sure that it will ever finish. Not until someone defines "victory" and "defeat". That is one reason why it is so tricky. It leaves too much room between the two. Some say that we come home in victory and some say that we come home in defeat with the exact same facts. That's tricky.

re: The Berlin Effect

olderwiser — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:18:15 GMT

Now, there are many shareholders of the no bid contractors in the war who achieved "victory" long ago and that victory grows with each succeeding week. That's slick. We know business victories, but we have lost touch with war victories. We just do it. That's about all that you can say for it.

re: The Berlin Effect

olderwiser — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:21:30 GMT

Being in Iraq and having our country divided over whether leaving right now or staying there indefinitely is a clear indication that we have no idea what we are doing there. Think about it. Is that leadership? I am ashamed of this. We all should be ashamed of this. People are being deliberately killed and we have no idea what we are doing there.

re: The Berlin Effect

olderwiser — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:22:55 GMT

Should be, "...or staying there indefinitely is victory or defeat is a clear indication that we have no idea what we are doing there.

re: The Berlin Effect

olderwiser — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:25:08 GMT

Well, my chickens are going to roost now. Time to go to bed. I will check back in he morning for the answers. Many thanks in advance for your kind assistance in this.

re: The Berlin Effect

citron16 — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 01:12:52 GMT

Bass Pro: McCain said he wants to get the troops home before his first term ends. And when he brings them home they will not have to go back like Obama is talking about. The article is on MSNBC. Just type in McCain.

re: The Berlin Effect

logical_thinker_007 — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 02:04:12 GMT

One thing people need to remember is that catching Osama Bin Laden in itself will not solve the terrorism problem. He is a symbol of the movement, but the trick is to actually solve the root causes. I would say there are 3 things to do: repair America's image around the world (it is hard to hate someone you admire), stop meddling into other (especially Muslim) countries' business (e.g. Iraq), and perhaps most importantly, stop unconditional support of Israel and really try to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (I'm not advocating abandoning Israel, but rather showing some tough love and being a fair broker).

When muslims around the world see Israel dropping American-made/financed bombs on the Palestinians they hate America for it. It is very important for Israel and America to realize that it is in ISRAEL'S best interest to achieve peace with the Palestinians - and I think especially in Isreal, that realization is starting to happen. The world community should set up a reparations fund to compensate those Palestinians who lost their land 60 years ago and thus resolve the biggest stumbling block: the right of return of Palestinian refugees to Israel.

As for Iraq, I agree with Olderwiser. Once the American public realizes that the war was mostly about Halliburton and other oil companies getting back into Iraq and making profits the public will demand a quick withdrawal. McCain and Bush have never been able to come up with a reason for going into Iraq that would outlast the events on the ground (because none of the rasons were true - be it WMD, democracy, liberation, or terrorism). Oil and lucrative contracts to extract it is a reason that has stood the test of time since 2002, and McCain's insistence on staying there for decades just confirms it further.

re: The Berlin Effect

citron16 — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 02:08:38 GMT

Harley: The reason McCain is now saying a shorter amount of time is because the surge he supported has solved alot of problems in Iraq. But he did say he will bring them home when the time is right when Iraq is stable enough so he won't have to send them back.

re: The Berlin Effect

notroubleatall1963 — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:13:36 GMT

Ich bin mit Obama. He's tops. High time for a champ in the office.

McCain is a good man, but I have a feeling his heart is not really in this election. What happened to "Maverick McCain"? He's undergone a total and complete "Makeover" to appeal to the mass-Conservative vote and he's not comfortable.

I still would vote for Obama over any Republican, particularly in light of the international favor he is receiving. Poor McCain, I feel sorry for him now...

Good luck to both - but May Obama Please Win!

re: The Berlin Effect

citron16 — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:20:46 GMT

Ich bin nicht mit Obama.. Ich bin mit McCan.

re: The Berlin Effect

Flash Drive — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:36:56 GMT

McCain needs to get his act together, he has an uphill task if he is ever going to defeat Obama in the November elections.

For many observers,McCain seens to be detached from any effective campaigning, it is like he have lost his way.

His is focusing also on the wrong message ,whereas most Americans are interested in 'bread and butter' issues.

I also think it is very important for both candidates to select their VPs in the very near future.

This has been a very long election campaign and many voters may be losing their enthusiasm.

May the better candiate win.

re: The Berlin Effect

citron16 — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:33:29 GMT

Harley : That is probably the worst comment I have ever seen you leave on here!! No one including Bush and McCain would ever think that way!!!

re: The Berlin Effect

frotwenty — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:47:43 GMT

For them, the centerpiece of Obama's Berlin speech--"tonight, I speak to you... as a fellow citizen of the world"--will sound "a little too post-nationalist," or, put another way, not sufficiently "American."

Well, sure it does. Especially when you put "..." in place of, "a proud citizen of the United States".

re: The Berlin Effect

Berlin1964 — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 12:39:20 GMT

"I have friends living in Berlin and these very popular rock bands were there and Obama's people did hand out the flags! Maybe you should check things out before you speak about BS cause thats waht your comment is!"

Pardon, this statement is wrong and will not be truer by repeating it constantly!!! I live in Berlin and know that these People only wanted to see Mr. Obama !!!! BY the way, the Street 17.Juni is one of the very important Connecting roads in Berlin. If that Road is closed for a Rock Band at normal weekdays (i can´t remember that this happened in last ten years) it has to be the Stones. I even don´t know this "popular Rockbands"!!! Believe it or not, Berliners are very connected to the us and some of them have american flags, which you can by even in Germany. Even if it were not the usually-sold articlein the last eight years!

Bye

re: The Berlin Effect

observer101 — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:44:39 GMT

Ha ha ha..Thats so set up...Those ppl are there for a concert not for Obama..Thats hilarious..Making the picture and article seem as though they were all there for Obama..Ha ha..Somemore of the Dems shinanigans...Deceptions! and using the public without them being aware what he really there for....Please elect Obama so we can see him for the fraud he really is.

re: The Berlin Effect

befair — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 17:30:46 GMT

Sen. Obama did an exemplary job of representing the United States. He was well recieved by all and he showed the american people what kind of leader he would be. He was diplomatic, eloquent, graceful and dignified and we should be proud of what he did for our country this week. I heard Andrea Mitchell and David Gregory saying that he seemed presumptuous and arrogant. What a shame that they can not find it in their hearts to give this man one moment of good press. They seem to interpret his self-confidence as a negative, would we want a President that would hang his head, shuffle his feet and appear nervous and inexperienced. Barack Obama passed the Commander-In-Chief test with flying colors, how tragic it is that some in the media cannot get out of John McCains pocket long enough to acknowledge that fact.

re: The Berlin Effect

benluclar — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:40:18 GMT

The Messiah Cometh ...

SLOBBER, SLOBBER, SLOBBER......

re: The Berlin Effect

411US.INFO — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:44:23 GMT

Obama offered to serve, and Americans are offering him up to the world, as one of our presidential candidates..

He and his ideas offer up to the world what is good, true, right about America.

Such a relief after the abysmal actions and behavior of the last eight years.

Our offering up Obama as the picture of the real America is what is truly great about our democracy.

It works.

re: The Berlin Effect

dgmcdole — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:23:04 GMT

All true Americans should be proud to see that another nations people stand up for Americas' values. I know I am.

re: The Berlin Effect

dunnhaupt — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:28:47 GMT

It was not JUST a campaign tour. After all, Obama chairs the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and even if he should lose the Presidency, he will retain that powerful office for many years with an even greater Democratic majority in both houses. US foreign politics will therefore be part of his job whether he becomes the next President or not. No foreign policy move by President McCain would even reach the Senate floor without the o.k. by Obama's committee.

re: The Berlin Effect

SPORTLOCK09 — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:57:02 GMT

Wanna see the proof of the msm completely in the tank for Obama?

You have gotta see this video I found on McCains website titled Obama Love

You can also find it on youtube Search John McCain Obama Love

This shyt make you wonder how any of these reporters can keep their jobs.

MUST SEE!!!!!!

re: The Berlin Effect

SPORTLOCK09 — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:59:24 GMT

Awe...... How cute the media looks foaming at the mouth over Obama.

re: The Berlin Effect

thehappyamerican — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:09:02 GMT

Obama decided when you don't want to visit wounded Armed forces people one excuse is as good as another. He can't get too far from the DNCs' Americans Suck First campaign. It will soon be that Obama, as a challenge to the RNC's control of the white house, will become weaker and weaker because he won' t be able to rise more than a few points above his party's appproval in the Congress.

The Gravicrud is pulling him down. His lack of interest in being face to face with military people will STICK all the way to November. With other things.

re: The Berlin Effect

oughtab — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:29:02 GMT

Leave it to the GOP to turn respect and admiration from around the world into a bad thing. They waived American flags! I challenge anyone to show similar footage for a Bush/McSame reception.

Gop'ers are simply out of sync with everyday Americans--don't blame Obama for his popularity, blame the brillant leadership of Bush&Co. Hillary would have received the same type of warm reception on the world stage because they see how the quickly our ship has been sinking since Captain Bush was elected.

America again will be looked at as a beacon of light in the world--the minute President Obama takes office. All the power GOP's achieved proved to be a good thing actually--because it proved to the American public that they really are nothing but a group of elitist inept chickenhawks; after all. If it's possible, you might want to spend less time whining about the admiration Obama is receiving for being confident and smart--and start looking at why your brand is considered trash around the world. Man in the mirror guys--man in the mirror.

God Bless America and our next President--Obama!!!

re: The Berlin Effect

citron16 — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:59:11 GMT

The Obamabots are out in full force this weekend!!!!

re: The Berlin Effect

citron16 — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 07:50:14 GMT

McCain is not inploding, just keep dreaming!!

re: The Berlin Effect

Berlin1964 — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:36:24 GMT

Your Republican Candidate is trying to make some friends over here! Well done.

This is in the headlines today.

"You know, it really speaks to the experience that Barack Obama lacks," Bounds told Fox News.

"He prioritizes throngs of fawning Germans over meeting with wounded combat troops in Germany," Bounds said."

After so far 80% of the Germans were for Obama , it will probably become now some more. Where do you always excavate these wereRumsfeld types?

If McCain should win this election, everything between our countries will probably stay the same the next 4 Years!! Very intelligent!! And by the way a bad style in an election campaigne!!!

Greetinx from Berlin!