Palin's Moderate Appeal?

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

chuckhasker@yahoo.com — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 19:33:03 GMT

If Obama had chosen Clinton as his Vice President running mate, Obama would have had a cup cake walk to the White House. But Obama chose Mr. Sad face boring as a running mate and left 18 million cracks in a ceiling that is leaking, and McCain has a running mate that has the bucket to catch the leaks. Chuck Hasker

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

RASM5602 — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 19:38:06 GMT

Don't know anything about Palin, and don't care one hoot about her. I support Obama and Biden, and not the old thinlypwhite haired dude, or that Palon raptire, who is a mystery woman,,,,,,,The news media should investigate this "RAPTURE" lady, or iif she goes to the white house, prepare for doomsday......

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

love234america — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 19:39:12 GMT

Could it be that the American people are finally seeing through the false hopes and changes which Obama promised? He is a dedicated liar. I really don't believe anyone knows what he would do if elected and that, folks, is scary as hell.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Stimpygato — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 19:41:18 GMT

As an extreme moderate, I can honestly say she is way too far right of center for my tastes.

I'm really surprised that all the pix of her gun-totin', and posing with dead animals hasn't whipped up more of a frenzy with the left-of-center crowd. To me, that's a deal breaker in and of itself.

This just amplifies the caricature of Americans in the eyes of the International Community. Don't be fooled, this election is every bit about our global reputation as it is about the war and the economy. Maybe even more so, since our role as the last Super Power on Earth seems more like a WWE belt than an actual symbol of status.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

NewsWkDickG — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 19:58:21 GMT

There simply can be no doubt that the Republicans are blatantly and self-servingly boldly dishonest, simply put, just full of the BS. They are not the party they were sixteen and more years ago when they sincerely advocated small government, financial responsibility, to only do for the people what they couldn’t do for themselves and striving to be honest (the conservative values). They still use the word ‘conservative’ today but it is just a word they use for emotional attachment and to hide behind, they only give lip service to the values it represents. The last eight years fully substantiates all of that as it is evident that they simply pursue their private agenda and continually lie without any hesitation to misrepresent, manipulate, camouflage, rationalize and excuse their actions. And now, they offer us a 72 year old candidate who is deteriorating and who out of desperation and irresponsibility chose a running mate who is aggressively bazaar, who is extreme in everything, who lies repeatedly without conscience, whose touch with reality is questionable and who is inexperienced in diplomacy, foreign policy, national interests and more; simply a person who is only an attack dog, as she herself says, ‘a pit bull with lipstick’. Can you imagine Sarah Palin as president? Even as Vice President she would be a total embarrassment. It is very important that we really recognize their consistent dishonesty and their arrogant efforts to use deception to manipulate public opinion, because behind all of the lies, all they offer is more of the same Bush-Cheney placating of Special Interests. The only real change they will provide is downright scary!

One more point. There are several people who make comments here, who can easily be identified by their persistence, their dishonesty, their strong bias and their extreme statements, who simply have connection, being volunteer/staff, with the Republicans and are assigned to do what they are doing. It is consistent with everything else the Republicans are doing to deceive the public. The garbage they persistently put out and refer people to should further identify them and should be understood as attempts to mislead and manipulate. It is simply as with everything else, they do it with boldness and without any conscience. Just because things are offered on the internet doesn’t make them true; we need to be careful what and who we trust and to be logical, even cynical and rational and objective ourselves. It is important to get it right this time!

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

dcmom — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 19:59:36 GMT

No gallup poll has phoned myself nor any one in my area so who are they surveying? Obama 08

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

BoogieStik — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:18:03 GMT

"'Republicans are excited, particularly the right wing of the party... by Governor Palin's choice,' Obama said.'I think that has less to do with gender than it has to do with her ideological predispositions, which are closely aligned to theirs.' ... realistically, it didn't make a whole lot of sense ... by and large Republicans were already planning to vote for McCain."

Andrew, were you paying attention before the RNC?

Republicans, particularly of the far right, socially conservative stripe, were tormented over McCain's nomination before he announced Palin as his VP pick, and had been threatening to stay home in droves. James Dobson is exhibit A in that discussion. Even after taking your point about the gender factor into consideration, it is as Obama said.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Lance123 — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:49:01 GMT

I believe the "surge" that McCain/Palin are experiencing will be short lived once people really start understanding who they are dealing with and what their true beliefs meen to the public.

Fact- McCain was a man I respected as a maverick in 2000. He lost the right to that title when he caved to the extreme right/Limbaugh/Glenn Beck crowd by not picking who he wanted- Lieberman or Ridge and was forced to pick an right wing extremest-Gov. Palin.

Fact- McCain voted with Bush 90+% of the time.

Fact- McCain voted against Veteran benefits.

Fact- McCain voted against equal pay for women.

Fact- Palin is against abortion even in cases of rape and incest.

Fact- Palin tried to ban books in her town until she backed down due to the uproar against her.

Fact- Palin was for the bridge to nowhere until pressure was put on her than she was against it. However, she kept the money for her state and did not return it to the U S taxpayers (non-Alaskan).

Fact- Palin left her town in debt.

Fact- Palin hired a lobbyist to get earmark money for her town.

Fact- Women should not vote for her because Clinton did not get on the ticket!! Palin is the exact opposite of Clinton in almost every major issue.

Fact- Palin does not even agree with McCain on global warming. She is adament that it does not exist, despite all of the overwhelming evidence.

Over the past 8 years we have a failed economy, 7+ trillion in debt, mired in a war that should never have been started, Katrina is still a disaster, a failed housing market, etc., etc., etc.

Some one once said the defination of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. McCain/Palin are the same thing as Bush/Cheney.

Please lets thing rationally about this. I am an independent but this is just ludicrious to think the polls are even close. We have to try something different and Obama/Biden are the ONLY different choice available.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

vstillwell — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:52:58 GMT

I'm freaking sick of hearing about Sarah Palin! Sick of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is she the only stinking issue in this election? I never knew a mayor from a puny freakin' town and a 2 year governor from a welfare state could get this much freakin' attention. Puke. What about the monster deficit, crappy health care, inflation, wars, unemployment, crumbling educational system, energy? What about those? I know they don't look good in frameless glasses, but that's all I care about! Retards!

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

sunoverla — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:59:11 GMT

You mean the bridge to nowhere that Barack and Biden voted FOR TWICE?

Even after the author of the bill offered to divert the bridges funds to Katrina relief efforts.

That bridge to nowhere?

--gays4palin

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

annhh — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:19:54 GMT

Feminism is not about left or right. It is about women issues. Anyone who is pro-CHOICE should acknowlege that consequently the choice-to-keep is also a choice, even if it would be the last I would choose.

And pleazzze. All those retard bloggers that react like a deer in the head lights: she does have a track record of not imposing her personal believes on others. Stop that smearing. It works counter productive but may be, actually, we should consider that, o crap, what am I saying, help, send, send me to rehab, re-education camp, something is wrong with me: may be we should support Palin; May be it is a very good thing for feminism. So how insane crazy I am? Read on:

Palin broke the ceiling on the last anti-feminist frontier, the conservatives. She is governing with her younger daughter at work and now with the baby in her office. Swing Set and Jumper are in her room.

Can you image what this will do when she is in the white house? This is more than Hillary can do. Hillary is just old and reflect back.

Palin will do for woman with Roosevelt did for disabled in the working place.

If Obama gets elected, forget 2012, forget 2016. Unlikely the Republicans will touch a female candidate again. Hillary will be old, 68 or so by then. May be 2012 Obama against Palin but Hillary is put on the side line. But if McCain wins and he lives another 4 year and stops after that as he has said earlier, come 2012, it will be Palin against Hillary.

Ofcourse, Hillary will win and break the presidency ceiling. But that is not the real ceiling.

The biggest ceiling is actually the floor all men are standing on: Imagine a race with men not even contesting. Now that would be the ultimate ceiling that will end this role thing once and for all.

The punch back in their cave will be that hard that from then on women will be doing the hunting and they will tent the kettle. Yummie

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

kafn8d — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:21:15 GMT

I agree with "DCMom's" comment here. No silly "pollster" has EVER called me. And, even if they did, I WOULD NOT/NEVER/EVER DISCUSS MY VOTE WITH ANYONE! That is between me and my ballot ONLY! Geez, I never even told my husband!

And I'm who they're (now) lookin' to latch onto.....the Caucasian, single, full-time working Mom who has a son with Down syndrome!

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

bklynbirny — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:29:50 GMT

vstillwell hits the nail on the head (prior to his puking presumably). The biggest problem for Obama-Biden is that the past 10 deys or more have been all Palin, all the time. Obama--yesterday's news; Biden--who?; McCain--isn't he grand for picking our gal Sarah! It has been absolutely startling to watch.

Opened my email 1st thing this morning. Email from my die-hard Obama supporting dad: "Palin abuses expense account" and my 1st reaction was "another day of Palin". Tuesday down. Will anyone be talking about Obama tomorrow? How many people do you think are gonna watch ABC News Thursday night with Charlie Gibson and Gov. Palin seeing her son off on his Iraq deployment. I wouldn't be surprised if its the highest rating nightly newscast of the 21st Century. And for good measure, they'll tour her native Alaska again on Friday (her home turf, and I'm sure the Alaskan backdrop will be breathtakingly awe-inspiring). Now we're well over 2-weeks of All Sarah, All The Time.

As I said, truly astounding! Oh, 1 last thing... Lance123 says "McCain/Palin are the same thing as Bush/Cheney". I think Our Gal Sarah is a bit better looking than Cheney, don't you?

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

pugs — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:53:30 GMT

McCain had the guts to do what Obama didn't (even when looking at his hero Kennedy who chose Johnson even though he didn't like him), We may not be in this mess if Obama had picked the person he really should have, Hillary. Whatever to whoever says but she split up the party , No Obama (or should I say Michell's husband) should have had the guts to pick Hillary but no McCain here is the true change by picking a woman as his VP, and with baggage to say the least, you go McCain you got my vote.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Saint Peter II — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:54:13 GMT

obama was positioned to win the nomination by the progressive part of the population and his subsequent moves toward the center may prove to be his making or otherwise. obamas move to win the votes of those who don't know what happened to bring this country to its knees economically and politically has left progressives with the same old choice of more of the failed democratic party failure or the hugely disastrous policies of the republicans. obama is not antiwar canidate he just wants to move the war to afghanistan which has been the scene of military disasters for everyone from the great Khan to the roman legions to the russian and british empire's. mccain on the other hand is a genuine third generation card carrying member of the military industrial complex. what a choice. on the level of the vice presidential candidates; no one is more of the established way of doing things than biden and on one on the national scene has done less than palin. what a choice. in the mean time america is undergoing the throws of an adjustment to the new global economic order and all candidates seem to think it is either a recession, a slow down and financial analysts are starting to speculate about a depression. no one is facing the fact that the wealth and economic advantages america enjoyed after the second world war are gone and we have to accept the past is far more rosy than the future. it is not enough to thump our chests and reaffirm america is great we must to adapt to the new economic world order, spend within our means and develop our remaining resource, namely our people. unfortunately we are closing out overcrowded schools for lack of money and the pentagon has ordered 9 luxury gulf stream jets at 110 million each!! hopefully we are able to face our new place in the scheme of things or at some point we will have to replace, as our national symbol the dinosaur for the eagle.

http://www.saintpeterii.com

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

kshortSD — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:55:51 GMT

I really hope Romano is correct in his assumption that the polls will swing around when the "novelty" of Sarah Palin has worn off. Electing a president who has voted with Bush 90% of the time, and a VP who is so ultra-conservative in her views would take our country back several steps. This is a frightening notion. We cannot elect a party that could possible do away with Roe V Wade, stem cell research, and gay rights and try to introduce the teaching of creationism into our public schools. I might have to move to Costa Rica...

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

zenoreo — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:00:50 GMT

America is stupid !! Just plain stupid !

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

pugs — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:10:43 GMT

Saint Peter exactly what do yu man "Third generatin card carrying Member of the Military"?

In America that is considered Heroic You win the DA award today! Dum___A__

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

GregHere — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:31:10 GMT

...............................From the accounts in the newspapers that I have read Ms. Palin is not a moderate at all, she follows the Right Wing philosophy of George Bush closely and Palin was put on the ticket by McCain to please the Right Wing elements of the Republican Party. Palin is good looking and a Public Relations move by McCain to dress up his drab image on the Republican ticket. America will move away from the P.R. hype before the election and realize that they are tired of the whole George Bush Era....all of the blunders....misrepresrentations...lies and loss of good opportunities for our Country. America knows that Automobiles, Refrigerators and many other items are sold with the help of smooth speaking good looking women, Palin P.R. presence will wear thin as America looks at The Big Picture and what they want in the next four years of their lives besides the 72 year old McCain and the inexperienced P.R. assistant Ms. Palin.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Evax — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:39:55 GMT

Obama = Quasi-Muslim terminator who is programmed to profile and licensed to kill.

Palin = Religious terrorist who allows free sex and set up a Down-syndrome child for failure on purpose.

Biden = Once a plagiarizer, never a leader.

McCain = Cancer + diabetes + heart disease + Alzheimer's disease + ----------

Wright is right : "God damns America".

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Red Meat Democrat — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 23:03:19 GMT

Chuck and Pugs - you guys are right on! If Obama loses (and I think he will) he will go down as one of the biggest chumps in American politics because he totally blew off the 18 million people who voted for Hillary. Go McCain!

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

thehappyamerican — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 23:43:55 GMT

It's not Palins' MODERATE appeal! McCain is the moderate who could NOT excite the" bitter clingers !"

Palin is appealing to the Conservative base of the GOP! And NOW they are mobilizing. They have not evaporated and then suddenly "revived." They've been there all this time! McCain could not excite the conservatives, alone and by himself.

It wasn't going to happen!

Obama appearently believed in the inevitability of the DNC taking the White House and that the Conservitive base was COMMITED to sitting out this election.

Both assumptions are VERY STUPID to make from a planning standpoint.

And the charm of Palin is that she is NOT A LAWYER! And without insulting Americans for their beliefs she can STILL make a lenghty speach and not attack a christian, Achiever, military professional, cops, and /or gun owner! And have a lot to say! How refreshing!!!

Obama will not direct her communications for her from his critisizm because who the hell is he, any way?

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

bluetwo11 — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 00:10:17 GMT

This woman is so extreme it's not funny! banning books , corrupt firings, the war is "Gods will!" I mean please! The most insulting thing is she keeps repeating her convention speech over and over like a stepford wife. She has been given a script and by gosh she is sticking to it! How can any voter be satisfied with that in elected offical. It's crazy yet people seem to be allowing thier brains to be sucked out with all the hype. Some of these posts are like we don't care what she says we are going with it!!!!

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

tkjer — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 01:27:27 GMT

The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s. The five senators, Alan Cranston (D-CA), Dennis DeConcini (D-AZ), John Glenn (D-OH), John McCain (R-AZ), and Donald W. Riegle (D-MI), were accused of improperly aiding Charles H. Keating, Jr., chairman of the failed Lincoln Savings and Loan Association, which was the target of an investigation by the Federal Home Loan Bank Board (FHLBB).

The U.S. Savings and Loan crisis of the 1980s and 1990s was the failure of 747 savings and loan associations (S&Ls) in the United States. The ultimate cost of the crisis is estimated to have totaled around $160.1 billion, about $124.6 billion of which was directly paid for by the U.S. taxpayer.[1].

The concomitant slowdown in the finance industry and the real estate market may have been a contributing cause of the 1990-1991 economic recession. Between 1986 and 1991, the number of new homes constructed per year dropped from 1.8 million to 1 million, the lowest rate since World War II.[2]

The Keating Five scandal was prompted by the activities of one particular savings and loan: Lincoln Savings and Loan Association of Irvine, California. Lincoln's chairman was Charles Keating, who ultimately served five years in prison for his corrupt mismanagement of Lincoln.[3] In the four years since Keating's American Continental Corporation (ACC) had purchased Lincoln in 1984, Lincoln's assets had increased from $1.1 billion to $5.5 billion.[4] Such savings and loan associations had been deregulated in the early 1980s, allowing them to make highly risky investments with their depositors' money, a change of which Keating took advantage.[4] Lincoln's investments took the form of buying land, taking equity positions in real estate development projects, and buying high-yield junk bonds.[5]

McCain and Keating had become personal friends following their initial contacts in 1981.[8] Between 1982 and 1987, McCain had received $112,000 in political contributions from Keating and his associates.[14] In addition, McCain's wife Cindy McCain and her father Jim Hensley had invested $359,100 in a Keating shopping center in April 1986, a year before McCain met with the regulators. McCain, his family, and their baby-sitter had made nine trips at Keating's expense, sometimes aboard Keating's jet. Three of the trips were made during vacations to Keating's opulent Bahamas retreat at Cat Cay. McCain did not pay Keating (in the amount of $13,433) for some of the trips until years after they were taken, when he learned that Keating was in trouble over Lincoln.[6][15]

The core allegation of the Keating Five affair is that Keating had made contributions of about $1.3 million to various U.S. Senators, and he called on those Senators to help him resist regulators. The regulators backed off, to later disastrous consequences.

After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Ethics Committee determined in 1991 that Alan Cranston, Dennis DeConcini, and Donald Riegle had substantially and improperly interfered with the FHLBB in its investigation of Lincoln Savings. Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

jefflz — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 01:32:38 GMT

This Karl Rove guy is a genius. He has turned the election into "THE NEW AMERICAN IDOL". He has replaced a tiresome, dried-out old candidate who is too confused to get the facts straight, and created tremendous buzz about a know-nothing right-wing Christian fundamentalist who won a beauty contest. Instead of looking at the horrible record of the last 8 nightmarish Bush years we now want to find out who is the sexiest, who has the best one liner put-downs? Hey Kids, while the the economy is going down the tubes, people are losing their homes and jobs, and respect for this country is at an all time low, lets have a Popularity Contest!! Its just like High School, wow, kids this is fun. The heck with boring political stuff, lets go for the cute gal with the smart mouth (her words also provided by Rove). Wake up kids, four years of McCain/Palin will leave you and your families far worse off than you are now. Can you afford to play these childish but potentially lethal games??

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

vinman — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 01:44:23 GMT

Watching you looney libs totally FREAK OUT warms my soul.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

thinking voter — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 01:46:45 GMT

Oh please. I am a white woman (hockey mom, by the way) and appalled that we seem to be grouped as some kind of non-thinking mass attracted to Governer Palin. The last polls I saw indicated that Palin was popular among men, but not among women.

There were many qualified women, Meg Whitman, for instance, who would have made amazing candidates. I am angry. Don't assume anything about me

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

vinman — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 01:47:14 GMT

Watching BHO talk about foreign policy is like watching a car crash in S L O W motion.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Flash Drive — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 02:33:23 GMT

Blame cannot be laid on the RNC for the predicament that Obama and the DNC finds itself in currently.

One must remember that the race is not won until the votes are cast and the results announced.

Too much attention was given to Obama over the last 19 months by the media, giving rise to 'Obama Fatigue' . Now when he needs our attention the most, many have stop listening.

Even though a lot of people do not agree with Palin position(s), she is like a scent of fresh air which many embrace.

The RNC has gathered momentum at the right time and this does not bear well for the Democrats.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

patmac — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 02:52:35 GMT

Indisputable evidence, Palin is no reformer or maverick. She is lying to us, plain and simple.

1) Palin, said in 2006: " 'People across the nation struggle with the idea of building a bridge because they’ve been under these misperceptions about the bridge and the purpose,' said Palin, who described the link as the Ketchikan area’s potential for expansion and growth. … Palin said Alaska’s congressional delegation worked hard to obtain funding for the bridge as part of a package deal and that she 'would not stand in the way of the progress toward that bridge.' ” source: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/gop_convention_spin_part_ii.html

In fact, she said, " 'We need to come to the defense of southeast Alaska when proposals are on the table, like the bridge, and not allow the spinmeisters to turn this project or any other into something that's so negative,' Palin said in August 2006, according to the Ketchikan Daily News. " http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-08-adwatch_N.htm

2) Going beyond this instance of the Palin/McCain hypocrisy we cannot forget another crucial and relevant fact: Alaska never gave back money allowed for the bridge to nowhere. See and sign the following petition requesting that the money be returned to the U.S. Govt.

http://www.petitiononline.com/giveback/petition.html

3) Likewise, as mayor. "Wasilla, Alaska, which had not previously received significant federal funds, hauled in almost $27 million in earmarks while Palin was mayor. (McCain has explicitly criticized several of the Wasilla earmarks in recent years.) To help obtain these earmarks, Palin had hired Steven Silver, the former chief of staff for recently indicted Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens, as Wasilla’s lobbyist. And Palin continued to solicit federal funds as governor. A request form on Stevens’ Web site shows that she requested $160.5 million in earmarks for the state in 2008, and almost $198 million for 2009. "

Source: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/gop_convention_spin_part_ii.html

Palin also lied about the airplane. It was not sold on e-bay, but sold privately. And it was sold at a loss.

Given these facts, one wonders how a rational person could possibly deny that McCain/Palin are the worst kind of hypocrites/liars.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

thehappyamerican — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 04:24:13 GMT

Obama's moslem faith permits him to lie to infidels and not be a liar. At least not in his view!

Obama is not happy with Americans who own fire arms but bomb makers such as Bill Ayers get a free pass!

This is the liberal and Left-Wing thinking which justifies discrimination campaigns against fire arms owners and others!

At least Palin is not a lawyer and not a National Lawyers Guild product! Or Community Organizer.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

vstillwell — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 04:30:48 GMT

Well, maybe someone should tell these "Wal-mart Moms" that if they keep voting for Republicans, they can kiss their Social Security and Medicare goodbye.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

writer8856 — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 05:36:28 GMT

It's astonishing to me to read the blog comments and see the same thing over and over. We criticize Palin and McCain for their inaccuracies, falsehoods and misrepresentations...we bring up the last 8 years and remind people (thank you, jefflz and patmac among others) about the real problems that face this country and what's the response? "Obama's a muslim." We're "looney libs". "Obama's a chump." "We get to have a baby in the white house." My God, people. We are AT WAR with ANOTHER major problem looming in Afghanistan. We have an increasing unemployment rate, a failing health care system. We are ON THE BRINK OF RECESSION. We have a RECORD DEFICIT and are spending $10 BILLION a month--that's $16,500/family--on the war. We have a dwindling supply of energy and have wasted the last 8 years doing nothing to develop viable, alternative fuel. And what is the dialogue taking place? Where is the real, true discussion of issues? It is virtually non-existant. There is nothing of substance being discussed. The only things that come back from McCain/Palin supporters are absolutely ridiculous and unfounded claims about Obama being Muslim or lies about his stand on sex education or personal insults referring to him as a chump or voters who claim to be Hillary supporters but are willing to vote for a candidate who is directly anti-thetical to everything she stood for. There is literally no substantial discussion of the issues...of the true realites facing this country. And, as a mother whose son is in Iraq with the strong possibility of being deployed now to Afghanistan, I am absolutely incredulous that we've sunk to such an ignorant level as a voting public. It's really, really easy to support Sarah Palin because "she's a breath of fresh air"? When it's your boy whose life is in danger every single day in a war that McCain only talks about in terms of a supposed victory, or you're working two jobs because your husband is disabled and you have *** for health insurance, or you're worried about losing your house, you too will want something a hell of a lot more substantial and trustworthy than a hockey mom who's a breath of fresh air in the white house. Will people PLEASE get over the ridiculous diatribe and get serious about this debate?

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

W.S. — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:46:28 GMT

THE MEDIA WILL HELP ELECT SARAH PALIN AND THEN SAVAGE HER ONCE SHE IS ELECTED. HER LIFE IS A SOAP OPERA. SHE WILL BE A TRULY TRAGIC FIGURE THAT JOHN MCCAIN WILL REGRET. BUT I FOR ONE CAN'T WAIT TO WATCH THE CIRCUS UNFOLD.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Melinn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:55:00 GMT

Wait for the circus to unfold??? It has been a circus since the beginning, way before Palin ever came on the scene.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

mellin66 — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:41:51 GMT

As one of the "moderates" discussed in this article, I agree with nearly every point. I will vote McCain/Palin not because of her views on abortion and creationism, but despite them. She is a levelheaded middle American mom, McCain is a military hero with years of foreign experience. Both have shown they can go against their own party if it's in the interest of the common good. To my eyes, this is a better solution than an untested idealist who would spend even more of my hard earned dollars.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Barbyrah — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:01:09 GMT

"Obama underestimates Palin's appeal to moderates--which has more to do with personality than policy"..."But given how easily the largely low-information public is swayed by gut-level appeals-..."

Andrew, how in the world do you go from here...to there (these are moderates)? Are you saying "moderates" are those who vote on personality? "Moderates" are low-information voters? "Moderates" are those swayed by "gut-level" politics? Your descriptions in this article do not seem, by any stretch of the imagination, to make the case. Maybe a little educating is in order:

1. Moderate: "Being within reasonable limits; not excessive or extreme"

2. Voting primarily on personality, low-infomration, and/or "gut-level" feelings...hmm. Is this what you consder "reasonable"? Not excessive? Not extreme?

3. If you do...I might ask you to sit in on a university-level course related to the U.S. political process; my guess is, as the class discusses voters who cast their ballots based on personality, low-information, or gut-level appeals...the word "moderates" will be no where in sight.

Peace to you.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

vakosh — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:09:06 GMT

I'm a moderate dem. This has nothing to do at all with Palin .... what it says to me about McCain is .... here is a man who is listening to the heartbeat of America. I could never undersand why Obama did not pick Hillary and when he made the choice not to, there was no explanation or damage control. Instead he went on vaca. I'm no genious, but women are 50% of the voting block ??? I just never understood Obama's strategy for the female vote.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

olderwiser — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:23:00 GMT

The term, "dumbing down", has made the dictionary. It awaits the coming election to expound further on its definition into our presidential campaigns. Articles like this help it to find its way into its prestigious place among the many highly expressive and elucidating words we have used in the past, and which are likely to become archaic. Good luck, America, as you dilute the power of a great democracy with an increasingly frivolous electoral process, denigrated with soapy operatic trash as a qualification for high office. I watched as we survived the near disaster of World War II, but I worry that we may not survive the erosive disease of trivializing our campaigns for president while real motives of the parties remain hidden from the voting public.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

michelle2610 — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:23:07 GMT

I am just perplexed that a moderate would vote for McCain/Palin. Palin is anti everything...she is nowhere in the middle on any issue (environment, abortion, gay rights, economy, etc.) If McCain is using her to pick up his campaign votes, that is very unfortunate. How is she any different from George W. Bush? I work with people who are losing their homes and believe me, I do not want four more years of this. Also, mellin66, Palin is not a levelheaded middle American mom; her income dictates that being a governor. How many middle class people do you know had a chef and a plane given to them? America needs to wake up and realize that if changes are not made, then we are headed for more troubles than we are already experiencing.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Donna1000 — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:41:28 GMT

And then there are the women who will notice that Obama failed to put a woman who attracted 18 million votes on his ticket and that he has now called Sarah Palin a pig. Obama's utter contempt for women disqualifies him for the White House as far as I'm concerned.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

C. MacLean — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:46:28 GMT

McCain picked her as a distraction and it has worked beautifully. He needed the symbolism, the caricature, and he got it - a pair of breasts draped in the American flag, with a shot gun over her shoulder (aimed at her future son-in-law?)

Motherhood, Americana, bibles and guns. Throw in the beauty queen angle and you have the perfect way to fog America's glasses and take the focus off both the issues and Cindy - a true two-fer.

Do we know what she thinks about jobs, trade, medicare reform, Russian, China, Afghanistan, the economy, gas prices, or any other important issue facing us today?

Nope. All we know is that she has a uterus, and knows how to use it.

If there is more to know, McCain needs to tell us, fast.

If there isn't, Obama needs to tell us. Fast.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

xeyeldinTX — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:49:01 GMT

Did Sen. McCain die? I hear all these people say they are voting for Gov. Palin because

she represents change in Washington. Yet no one can name even one stand on the issues as

proposed by John McCain as a change from Washington as usual politics. The middle class

in this country is being slaughtered, we have been thrown under the bus, frankly, by both

parties. The only candidate who even speaks to that reality is Barrack Obama.

Palin appears to be great fun, very energetic and apparently has done some good in

Alaska. But as VP she will not drive policy or set agendas. It is insanity to vote for

McCain, however, based on those things, unless, of course, he's dead and I just don't

know it.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:10:59 GMT

I can't say to "think like a woman," but with a mother, 3 sisters, a wife and two daughters, I sure as heck observe them. Among the six women in my life, Palin's nomination was an eye-opener.

Two of the six are die-hardliberals, the other four are moderates ... and let's take a moment to replace moderate with "pragmatic" ... and no one beats a responsible middle-class woman in the pragmatic department: they make budgetary decisions, they make policy decisions; in reality, wives and mothers are the hidden ingredient in grassroots governance where it matters most: in the home.

So, that being said, pre-Palind, four of the six women in my life were either supporting Obama or leaning in that direction. Since Palin's nomination and speech, four of the six now are "excited and energized" and have committed to McCain/Palin. Of the two die-hard liberals among the female microcosm of my family, one is wavering, and based on an email this morning, the "pig in lipstick" comment, despite the Obama camp's attempt to spin-meister it away, struck home at a visceral level. Women in general know visceral, and this dyed-in-the-wool liberal Democrat said in her email: "I can't vote for McCain, but I can NOT vote for Obama."

This is the rubber-meets-the-road impact Palin's choice has meant in women's politics, and it is one the liberal media and political machine is attacking relentlessly. My prediction? Women love support groups, and this will have repercussions far beyond what the poll numbers show: should this course continue, you will see support for Palin increase as sexist attacks continue: women are fed up at the visceral level with sexism. It has nothing to do with NOW, with the RNC and DNC, it has to do with the glass ceiling every woman faces everyday, it has to do with the backlash at this moment in history of decades of being considered second class citizens.

Politicians beware. Obama, beware, the hens have come home to roost.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

olderwiser — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:28:19 GMT

"Stupid is, as stupid does". Forrest Gump.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

olderwiser — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:28:51 GMT

Quoting his mother, Forrest was.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

JoanR — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:35:08 GMT

Can't help but notice how vile this campaign has really become since Obama fell behind in the polls.He likes being a front runner and is choking now.The frantic and desperate bleatings of his supporters and media stooges is sweet music indeed

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

benluclar — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:38:42 GMT

to brianNM posting:

You have renewed my faith in the fairness which exists in logical-thinking men in this country.

Never have I heard so plainly -- and fairly honestly -- portrayed on behalf of the feminine gender.

Yes, we need recognized, yes, we need judged fairly, yes, we need fair judgment in our versatile and competent capabilities.

Palin was a wonderful choice to represent women and our values and competency and choices and obligations and abilities to multi-task responsibilities favorably for the good of everyone and our convictions through inborn strength and our perserverance of our beliefs, whether those beliefs are liberal or conservative.

In short: WE ARE GOOD at whatever we do, and we do it with as much personal class as we are physically and mentally able.

Palin is an excellent representative of these qualities. I just LOVE McCain's choice and wisdom enough to see the VALUE of her input in his administration.

Thank you, brianNM, for being MAN ENOUGH to observe this fairly.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:42:20 GMT

As a ps to my previous post: Yes, I know that the sum of women in my family comes to seven, not six. One isn't old enough to vote so I excluded her. Add her in, and it makes it 5 for McCain/Palin, 1 formerly very committed Hilary supporter who will abstain from voting, and one young woman who sees Palin's choice in a very teen-like "Good for her! You go girl!" kind of way.

The bottom line is that Amerian women have at least perceived, and in actuality have, suffered rampant sexism in our culture. From Hollywood to the workplace, from government bureaucracies to "good old boys," it is something they live with everyday.

To them, I highly suspect, Palin is becomnig a rallying point, a way of saying "Enough is enough, you WILL listen to US." Sexism transcends party lines, it transcends class, it transcends race. Such a universal issue is what every political candidate hopes to find, and McCain found it. Some see this as "pandering," I see it as a wise man observing a universal truth and bowing to that wisdom.

The change that McCain did not mention in his acceptance speech directly is the assault on sexism in America, the final shattering of those "18 million" cracks in the glass ceiling. That is something every woman can identify with, and that is the -- perhaps not-so-subtle -- undercurrent that is rippling through this presidential race.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:55:54 GMT

benluclar:

To deny half of what our culture is -- really to deny half of what men are -- is to deny the impact women have on shaping us as men, and beyond that, to shaping America as a country.

I am not one who usually gets excited about politics -- but this particular choice (Palin) is what we need as a country, because I see it as a chance for women to unify -- not because they necessarily agree with Palin in every point -- but because, as women, they understand her ... this may very well be the beginning of the "Hockey Mom Revolution." I may be wrong, but I think that this represents a fresh breeze in American politics that -- given the sexist attacks -- could very well turn out to be a tornado. Politicans, beware the "tempest in a teapot," lest it boil over to your peril.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:06:00 GMT

I stand duly chastized. After sharing this link with my youngest, I received a text message pointing out that she will be 19, not 18 after the election. So she will vote, so in my particular microcosm of middle-class America, make that 5 for McCain/Palin, 1 liberal abstaining from voting for Obama, and 1 for Obama.

I know this hardly constitutes a "scientific poll" ... yet I suspect, in some way, it is playing out in undecided households across the country. And men, if they don't want to sleep on the couch, better take this women's issue seriously for what it is: a chance for women to advance, be recognized and counted, not as women, but as Americans of equal value and worth.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

benluclar — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:20:32 GMT

brianNM

Your comments are a joy to read on behalf of the value of women, and you have made this day in the lives of millions of deserving women.

Newsweek should take heed for your editorial advisory capabilities and I hope uncommited women voters will listen carefully to what you have explained so eloquently.

I applaud your Mother for raising an equitable, observant individual.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

ademeyer — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:21:18 GMT

I, a 49 year old white woman, am voting for Obama, as are my two older sisters. The only member of my family who may vote for McCain because she identifies with Palin's working class persona, is my sister-in-law. This is the same woman who is so scared about America's future, she is stock piling rice and first aide supplies. I think alot of working class women are scared, and, for Obama to win, he needs to address those fears. Why does Australia have universal healthcare and America doesn't? Obama needs to address these women's fears.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:35:55 GMT

More feedback: From my wife: "This (sexism) matters because if we (women) can't participate in every aspect of life equally, if we feel excluded in the workplace or politics, nothing else matters." I guess I don't have to sleep on the couch.

I haven't seen a pundit yet who has addressed this pending ground-swell. They are looking at poll numbers and demographics, blue states and red (really, down to the county level), they address the Clinton women's likelihood and numbers defecting to McCain. They are all missing what REAL change is about: it is about emotion and beliefs, and women have been excluded, have been discriminated against in day to day life in America on many levels, and it is that potential to change politics as usual -- and not tax policy, energy policy, etc., that is becoming to some extent the larger, overarching issue among moderate women.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

millerm84 — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:37:15 GMT

I will be burned for this, I will be hated for this, but its the truth. If you believe that Palin was chosen for any other reason then her gender, you are blind. If you believe that having a female VP will break that glass ceiling or change anything for women, then the RNC spin machine has successfully turned you into sheep. Palin will not be a powerful figure in Washington, she is no Dick Cheney, she's not even an Al Gore. Palin is an election year stunt to stem the hemorrhaging of a bombing McCain candidacy. Do you really think that the RNC would allow such a risky running mate (see "troopergate" see inexperience, see mother of 5 with a special needs child and a pregnant teen) if she wasn't serving as a Hail Mary pass to pull women from Obama? For all who would have voted for Obama before Palin, why don't you ask Clinton if Palin really is furthering the cause of women.

Just to try and redeem myself from sounding sexist (thought I'm sure that any male that says he won't vote McCain/Palin will be labeled as such), I would have gladly voted for Clinton, and have not one issue with female authority figures (oldest son of a single mom). Palin was chosen for her gender, thus making her the sexist vote.

Let the flaming begin!

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:44:56 GMT

ademeyer:

I respect your political choice, but do point out that Obama had a chance to address the fears of women and failed utterly by not selecting Clinton as his VP nominee. McCain, on the other hand, selected Palin.

In many ways both Hilary and Palin have strengths that match or exceed the men at the top of each party's ticket. McCain, to his credit, is comfortable in having a female running mate that is, in many ways, his equal or better. Obama had the chance to pick a woman who is as strong, if not stronger, than he is. That he didn't, to me at least, speaks volumes. Maybe its the southerwestern viewpoint, but at the end of the day, I could care less about words (flowery or not), it's about what a person actually does. McCain did, Obama didn't.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

dcmom — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:46:30 GMT

"By withholding these emails, Sarah Palin has broken on her promise of being open, honest and transparent," McLeod said in a statement. "It's old-school politics and not the kind of reform she pledged to Alaskans."

America, we simply can't afford more yrs of leaders w/ these types of ethics, why won't we as a country make an attempt in this election to raise our standards, if not for us , for the future generations. How can we preach to the children when all they hear and read is the shenanigans of our elected officials. We simply can't afford 4 more years of scandals and nothing else getting accomplished, Already, there is more focused on everthing else besides the true issues that matterr.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

jpigeon64 — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:47:23 GMT

Is Palin running for President or is McCain running for President? I think we are confusing the issue. McCain has taken a major backseat to Palin, which scares me to death. The decision is between Barack Obama and McCain and I would hope that most voters are considering the election form that viewpoint. I do think it's great that the the Republicans have chosen a woman, but I question the motives. If the US votes the McCain / Palin tocket in then we may as well hang it up. We need BIG changes in how we approach the rest of the world and I do not believe that this can be accomplished without Barack Obama as our next President.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:53:36 GMT

millerm84:

There is no need to flame. The issue here isn't what committed voters for either candidate believe, it is what the uncommitted voters (and to a large extent women) believe. It is my profound belief that they care less why McCain chose Palin politically, only that he did. And further, that partisan politics aside, they will identify with the "hockey mom."

So one sheep can bleat that the other is drinking Koolaid all day long. The party base is the party base, and the fact is that the Republican base is surging, and that undecided moderate voters now have a reason to look at the Republican ticket.

My intent here is not to get into rehashing partisan issues particular to either political side, but the larger issue regarding sexism and the increasing role that will play in this election. I think the media and the political pundits are misreading the growing feeling in the moderate female population; the continued attacks certainly do not help portray the liberal side as being sensitive to it (with not selecting Clinton being a clincher in certain eyes).

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:07:17 GMT

jpigeon64:

It is the media -- and to some extent the Obama campaign -- who is drawing the contrast between Palin and Obama, not the Republicans. I find it humorous, actually, that the left sees Palin as a challenge not to Biden, but to Obama himself, and that the constrasts haven't been Palin/Biden but Palin/Obama.

As I stated to ademeyer, I reiterate to both you and to dcmom -- the issue here isn't the decided voters, it's the undecided voter that will decide who the next president and VP will be. The indications are that post-Palin, only 37% of undecideds are casting their lot with Obama; and it is my further contention, that if the sexist attacks on Palin from the left continue, it will have a growing repercussion among women voters in general, and moderate, undecided women voters in particular.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

annasplit — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:18:55 GMT

How many middle class people do you know had a chef and a plane given to them?

Considering she sold the governor's plane on E-bay and that it wasn't hers to begin with, but rather bought by the former governor, Frank Murkowski, and that she had the personal chef let go as well, I'm wondering how that is even relevant.

And Obama had his home co-signed by a man with known ties to terrorism. Things that make you go hmmm...

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

MsChiTown — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:25:10 GMT

Gee, where was all the outrage when McCain offered his WIFE to parade half-naked in front of that biker group?

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Mwalimu — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:33:28 GMT

Palin as a moderate??? That's only because she hides her extremist views in a closet.

A recent press release by Sara Kugler, “No questions, please; Palin sticks to her script.” says it all. At each public appearance, Palin makes a few introductory remarks, all carefully screened in advance, with a few top polling smear comments about Obama, whom she hates with a purple passion. And then, silence. According to the GOP script, women apparently are to be seen and not heard. They are supposed to dress the stage, but whatever they say is carefully monitored. Even the much touted interview with ABC is carefully staged. Palin hand-picked Charles Gibson. He’ll interview her with this in mind.

This traditional scenario reminds me of what I saw in Cesme Turkey a few months ago. Turkey, as McCain and Palin don’t know, is engaged in a cultural war much like the cultural war that Palin wants to start in the United States. Like the United States, the cultural war in Turkey is between the religious fundamentalists and the modernists. Although most of the women in Cesme are modern, and Ataturk’s portrait is quite evident, I noticed traditional arrangements as well.

The husband always led. The woman hidden in a veil and chador, followed obediently, her head to the ground. No questions, Needless to say Turkey has -plenty of conservative women who insist that this sort of marriage is exactly what they want.

Examin any public appearane of Palin and McCain together, and you'll see the same appearance. Is this what moderates, particuarly women, want?

My only warning to the women in America, particuarly the moderte women who are flocking te McCain and Palin in drroves, comes from that radical playwright George Bernard Shaw: “Beware of what you wish for; it might come true.”

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Mwalimu — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:34:05 GMT

Palin as a moderate??? That's only because she hides her extremist views in a closet.

Examin any public appearane of Palin and McCain together, and you'll see the same appearance. Is this what moderates, particuarly women, want?

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:35:03 GMT

annasplit:

You give voice to expressions of the underlying character. On the character issue, McCain and Palin win hands down over Obama/Biden.

Each side can spin to their heart's desire. The reality of American politics is that any major candidate has supported an earmark or two, listened to a special intersest group or two. That is the nature of political powerbrokering in Washington, DC and elsewhere.

The bottom line is: who has delineated a line when politics clashes with principle? Who has reached out to the other side to broker compromises? Neither Obama nor Biden can make that claim. McCain has the record of not only bucking his own party and presidents (Reagan and the Bushes), but also of working to find the middle road. Palin has done the same in Alaska -- the media seems to intentionally turn a blind eye to her in-state approval rating that exceeds 80% (a number that the congress-bound Obama/Binden with their 9% approval rating should heed).

McCain, in his acceptance speech, calls out for all ideas, from any party, and doesn't care who gets the "credit." Palin's record is that she had Democrats and independents in her cabinet. Obama, on the other hand used his moment in the spotlight, not to reach across party lines, not to encourage inclusion and empowerment, but merely to attack, denigrate and reinforce the notion that only he and his party have the right ideas. To me, that strikes a very elitist chord typical of the far left.

To the undecided voter, character and inclusion will play a vital role in their decision; and that inclusion is increasingly addressing sexism and the inclusion of women. Call it politics if you will, it is striking a chord where it matters most: in the minds and emotions of the middle -- the rightful place where presidencies are decided, for America is best off led from the middle, not the right or left.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Tominator — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:35:37 GMT

The Democrats and the Media pounded on the issue of McCains health and that Palin was within a heartbeat of the Presidency. It has back fired. Palin is turning out to be a better candidate than Obama. He asked for it and he is getting it.

The other issue is: how would you feel if everyone was predicting your death before the age of say 76 when your Mother is still alive and kicking at 96. Do the Dems plan on disposing of McCain if elected? Sure sounds like it.

Just shows you how desperate men can get when their weak fake power is being taken away from them. Body language of Obama on the O'Reilly show and now his inability to even smile at his speeches is like a billboard of fear. His shrillness will turn off even his most ardent supporters. Stick the fork in.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Mwalimu — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:37:39 GMT

I love annasplit's comments.

Yes Palin put up her luxury jet on ebay for auction, but she did not sell it.The state had to take over the sale, and they sold it at a loss.

In addition, Palin billed the stte for about $ 43,000 in transportation costs so that she could spend more time with her family. Did Palin tell the whole truth? Hardly. Is this straight talk? I don't think so.

Hmmmm.

P.S. Check out "Alaskonomics" by Michael Kinsely at Time.com. There's a lot of secrets about Sarah Palinthat we don't know.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:53:06 GMT

Mwalimu:

There's a lot we don't know about Obama, and a lot about Biden's inner circle working of PACs and special interests that others don't know. Despite your denigration, Alaskans support Palin with an 80+% approval rating, with 65+% overwhelmingly supporting her.

Go drink your Koolaid elsewhere ... we in the middle are capable of deciding for ourselves without drive-by sniping as seen in MsChiTown's, yours and other posts.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Toy05 — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:55:44 GMT

I just don't understand why its okay for Palin to say" bull dog with lipstick" and people cheer but when Obama uses a "pig in lipstick" its a problem. Obama wasn't even making a comment towards Palin. Everyone is so quick to judge and not look at the major issues. I am a women and if McCain/Palin is in office we are looking at another 4 years of HELL!!!!

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:02:05 GMT

Guess you can't understand Toyo,

When Palin said Bulldog, she was referring to HERSELF, when Obama used Pig, he was referring to someone else.

Your comment alludes that they are the same, in which Palin called someone else a disparraging remark, when in fact, she was being self-efacing. Obama was being scornful towards someone else's persona, or policy. It is evident how the remark was meant--you people just get mad when the inendo is picked up. That is try to say something whithout actually saying it.

People aren't stupid. Go on pretending that they are, and you will lose this thing for sure.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:05:34 GMT

Toy05:

Then you don't understand the issues of self-depreciatory humor and attack, outward-pointing humor. Had Obama said "pit bull in lipstick," your argument would have merit; but I find it somewhat disturbing that your politics overrides your sense of outrage as a woman at being indrectly called a "pig." As for your four years of Hell, are you posting this from Iraq, Afghanistan, from the tsumani stricken regions of south/southeastern Asia? Your hell appears to be a politically-driven one and is a consquence of buying into extremism -- whether of the left or right.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:06:08 GMT

Mwalimu,

Here, you are not even telling the whole truth. The point is that she sold it because she saw it as an over the top financial burden in the goverment. You act like selling it at a loss--WHEN SHE DIDN"T BUY IT IN THE FIRST PLACE--is a bad thing. When selling it at a loss actually saved the tax payers more money than having to constantly spend funds and money in having to maintain the thing.

Jeez you people are stupid.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

timrogers — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:06:35 GMT

Whites will support white candidates over black ones because they are white. Women will support female candidates over men because they are women. The issues rarely matter in the end. How a candidate connects , what their general image becomes, keeping the message simple , having the most money, and appealing to the fears of voters are the reasons elections are won or lost. Most voters don't know muchor want to know more, and never change their minds about what they do know. They like pretty faces over policy papers. They like whites more than blacks, except for black voters. They like women more than men if they are women. McCain made a shrewd choice with Gov. Palin. It will get him elected.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:11:22 GMT

timrogers:

People like McCain (and I'm willing to bet, Palin) don't look at color. Having served in my country's military, I learned a fundamental truth about men: in the moment of trial, wounded and stricken on the field of battle, they call out to their brothers-in-arms, to their mothers, wives or sweethearts, or their God. They don't call out based on color, ethnicity or gender.

McCain gets it, Palin gets it, the left does not, has not, and probably never will.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

angushurley44 — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:11:57 GMT

You hit the nail on the head on Palin's appeal. As a conservative athiest, (yes, we exist), I have some problems with where she stands on a few issues, but her general impression to me is one I find I can support and admire. As someone who's very cool towards McCain, I am now onboard with the McCain/Palin ticket. Oh, and I'm a guy who was on the fence. She's going to do more damage than Barak gives her credit for.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

MsChiTown — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:18:47 GMT

Posted By: brianNM (September 10, 2008 at 12:53 PM)

Mwalimu:

There's a lot we don't know about Obama, and a lot about Biden's inner circle working of PACs and special interests that others don't know.

Funny brian NM, Obama's even been on O'Reilly and Biden's a big boy who can campaign all by himself without crib notes. Now surely O'Reilly would have asked something you "middle" people want to know. But McCain wouldn't even go on that soft touch Larry King. And Sarah ... well let's not even talk about her and the media - I know how unfair they've been to her - ahem. Do me a favor, why don't you go to one of McCain's rallies and YOU try asking her a question. Get back to me on that okay?

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:19:35 GMT

Wow,

Dems sure like to argue that it is neo-cons who are the ones voting for Mccain/Palin; however just look at the independents right now. They are flocking to Mccain like a gaggle of birds seeking refuge from a cold, harsh winter.

This is what will decide the election.

Funny how those who are not really Dem or Repub atill think Mccain is the best choice to lead our country.

God bless the free-thinking mind.

You too, angushurley--guess God bless wouldn't be a compliment--but sure glad you are one who peers through all the bs in order to make the rational--and right-decision

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:21:02 GMT

angushurley44:

Of course we are not going to always agree on all the issues (given the number of issues). What appeals to me at a personal level are candidates who's actual accomplishments indicate that they are willing to reach across partisan lines, are willing take stands of principle before politics and polls, and who -- when given alternatives contra to their position -- have the abiility to admit they might be wrong. McCain has (hence, I think, his remark of being "an imperfect public servant") vs. Obama's Apollo descending from Mount Olympus seeking deification and dicatating to us as the new Delphi Oracle.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:23:00 GMT

Soft touch Larry

LOL

ROTFL

LOL

The night of Mccain's speech he had a panel of experts break it down on his show--one of whome was Jesse "The Body" Ventura-lol--none of who were anything but liberal minded.

Not one consertative viewpoint. Not one.

No, there's no bias on CNN.

lol

Give me a break

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

ziadora — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:23:18 GMT

Posted By: timrogers (September 10, 2008 at 1:06 PM)

Thank you for clarifying the Republican mindset for us.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:24:33 GMT

MsChiTown:

And Obama didn't answer McCain's call to campaign in town hall meetings with no script. I don't want a president whose policy is directed by TelePromter, I want one who can address me face to face with no script.

Keep drinking your Koolaid ... we in the middle are content with McCain's appeal vs. Obama's as a person of character. Then again, I can understand Obama's appeal to you, he is a product of the Chicago political machine, one understood throughout most of America as one of the most corrupt political organizations in America's history. So I'd be hesitant of the pot calling the kettle black were I you.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:29:27 GMT

Exactly brian,

there are a lot of Americans who think they call it the windy city because, "well, the think it is windy." When in fact, Chicago got its nickname from the blow hard politicians hailing from there, Basically, it is called the windy city because of all of the hot air that gets spewed from their government affiliates.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

ziadora — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:29:31 GMT

Do Republicans make us fear as they would like us to? Do we dare say, science or stem cell research, Do we dare say, reproductive rights or the rights of gays and lesbians. Do we dare say, sex education for children. Do we dare say, I am not of your faith. Do we dare not say these things for fear of being cast in the role of the terrible sinner by those who try to beat us down with a moral majority pretension. No, we do not fear. we will not fear. And we are mad as hell.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

bluebloodedLV — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:30:53 GMT

Rametyn -

During the dem convention Larry King had republicans on his show and during the rep convention he had democrats on his show.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

bluebloodedLV — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:30:57 GMT

Rametyn -

During the dem convention Larry King had republicans on his show and during the rep convention he had democrats on his show.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:32:13 GMT

Yeah--because you are losing this election.

I would be mad as hell too.

LOL

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:34:37 GMT

Sorry, blue--didn't watch Larry after the DNC.

But don't see the point of only putting on opposing view points--other than perhaps ratings--when other network shows at least tried to give some fair and balanced covererage.

I'm not a big Larry King fan. Never have been.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

ziadora — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:35:51 GMT

Considering neither McCain nor Palin is highly educated, it should come as no surprise that they do not support the field of science. We have all heard of the Dark Ages, "an era of ignorance and social repression, a suspension of time and progress, a period of cultural stagnation." Let us hope that we Democrats prevail this November, for I fear if we do not, America will continue down the dark path that George W. Bush and the Republican Party has laid at our feet.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:37:31 GMT

ziadora:

You cite issues that should be part of the public debate. But I do caution, it should not be a debate driven by the left and right extremes. Personally, I do not find morality that is relativistic either personally or logically (from a philosophic logic standpoint) apealing. And in the greater sense, such issues are not standalone issues, they need the scrutiny of its impact on the whole. Holistic policy, not special interest, knee-jerk policy that in the end becomes fragmented and incoherent by its nature.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Stay Focused — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:40:47 GMT

Finally, the arrogance of the democrats is coming home to roost. They treated Hillary and Bill poorly and now they are truning their venom and sexism towards Palin. Good. Keep it up. It is going to backfire. Although the Dems should win the election because of the Bush administration, most of us do not feel Bush ever represented Republican politics. Look at spending. Out of control, under both a Republican Congress and a Democratic Congress. And "going it alone" in the world was Bush arrogance not Republican philosophy. The real issue is the economy. Anyone who believes that giving the middle class tax breaks is going to create jobs, increase trade opportunities, cure our infra-structure or health care problems, is pandering to the masses. Tax incentives to private industry who create jobs will do a lot more. The middle class want jobs and good pay and not have to live in fear of losing their jobs and health insurance. giving them more sheckles in their pocket will not solve their problems.if it is temporary and our economy loses revenue and jobs. Working with big business to do the right thing for America will solve some, not all of course, our domestic problems. Should we buy the fish dinner for the middle class, or should we teach them to fish so they can feed their families forever? You decide. Make no mistake, that we all pay too much in taxes and it is spent in places we do not like, so let's start there. Give a tax break but not on the backs of industry that keep our economy growing.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

ziadora — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:41:00 GMT

WASHINGTON — The federal government will run a near-record deficit of $407 billion this year, according to the latest Capitol Hill estimates. CNN

"You would like to think that someone who is going to be vice president and conceivable president would know what Fannie and Freddie do," said Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research. "These are huge institutions and they are absolutely central to our country's mortgage debt. To not have a clue what they do doesn't speak well for her, I'd say."

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

ziadora — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:41:03 GMT

WASHINGTON — The federal government will run a near-record deficit of $407 billion this year, according to the latest Capitol Hill estimates. CNN

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:43:27 GMT

ziadora:

"Considering neither McCain nor Palin is highly educated, it should come as no surprise that they do not support the field of science." Now you are coming across as a liberal, think-you-know-it-all elitist snob.

First, the military academies rank among the best colleges in America, and even those that graduate last in their class, rank in the upper percentage of all college graduates. And what makes the elitist Ivy League schools better than the state colleges in America, such as Idaho.

So take the elitism elsewhere, it doesn't resonate well in what you like to call "flyover" country.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

ziadora — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:47:58 GMT

Palin approached librarian Mary Ellen Emmons three times to ask about the possibility [of removing books], which could legitimately appear to some as something of a pressure campaign (especially considering that Palin attempted to have the librarian removed afterward). Seth Colter Walls, Huffington Post

Hitler waited 90 days after taking office before banning...books. Mayor Sarah Palin waited 11 days after taking office before attempting to ban books.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:49:39 GMT

ziadora:

Keep spinning. We'll all take delight when you fall down overcome with your dizziness.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

ziadora — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:51:37 GMT

Sarah Palin believes the Iraq war is a task from God.

American's killed: over 4,000

American's wounded: over 100,000

Iraqi deaths due to invasion: over 100,000

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:51:45 GMT

You know, without jest ziadora, most people don't live in congested overly-populated areas where each of your issues may have merit. You may be surrounded my minds who support such things, of watch elite news coverage of such issues where they are handled in such a manner as to give them wright as something "we all care about."

However, thre are people like me who do not think forward progressive thinking is the right choice. People who understand that while you are saying you are not of my faith, that doesn not mean that I want YOUR morality, or YOUR viewpoints forced into my life, or my childrens life.

You know, truth is--the choices you make in the privacy of your bedroom is your business, and I have no problem with that. But when you try to create a minority out of it, and then try to force me into a corner where I have to accept that MORAL issue--wether I agree with it or not, YOU are indtruding on my right to decide what I believe is right and wrong.

That is closer to facism than anything the GOP has ever practiced.

So please, save the scare speech. It is not about fear. It's about the oppurtunity to make informed decisions based on what each individual believes, If anyone uses fear, it is a party who uses words like homophobe as a way to belittle those who do not agree with you. I am not afraid of gays or lesbians--I just do not agree with that lifestyle--not only because of my moral inclination, but also because it lacks any sense of scientific reasoning in pertinence to the purpose of sexuality. Other than that of alittle experiement conducted at berkley that shows what happens to a colony of rats once overpopulation reaches that critical stage of no return.

You should look it up. It explains a lot about pansexuality, and the homosexuality that occured even between rodents--only when that populatipn reached a critcal mass where the male to female ratio was unbalanced. It also showed increases in aggression and cases of rape among the rats studied.

But I'm sure you won't argue that given the right criteria--rape in any sense would be okay.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:53:20 GMT

Yeah--the report is she wanted to ban Harry Potter.

Funny thing is, that report reference is cited two years before Harry Potter came out.

LOL

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

ziadora — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:54:19 GMT

"As of August, 62 Army soldiers have committed suicide, and 31 cases of possible suicide remain under investigation, according to Army statistics. Army officials said that if the trend continues this year, it will pass the nation's suicide rate..." CNN

Sarah Palin believes the Iraq war is a task from God.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:58:19 GMT

ziadora epitomizes why the middle is moving to McCain. Distortion of fact, totally out of touch with what most Americans believe, and refuses to believe that they can be wrong -- that only they have the answers.

So we should actually aplaud ziadora and those like that -- it is they who are solidifying the middle on McCain's side.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

benluclar — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:00:10 GMT

ziadora,

And death of an entire nation's 200 million Americans and their values they have fought long and hard for if Obam-EGO is actually elected President of a country he has hardly even lived in, let alone does not even understand.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:00:41 GMT

Huh?

So what's the rest of the nation's reasons for suicide?

Because they are Dems, and are now losing the race.

They're a number of soldiers who have died in car accidents too, Would you like to blame the GOP for those occurances as well?

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

ziadora — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:02:26 GMT

I'm a college graduate. I have a BS from University of Idaho in journalism. I'm mayor of Wasilla, population about 5,000. I hired an administrator to run the town. I'm governor of Alaska with less than two years of experience. I have never ordered the Alaska National Guard to do anything, but I did visit them in Kuwait once. Other than Kuwait, I've been to Germany........and Ireland too, for a fuel stop.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:09:29 GMT

Here's the choice in the simplest of terms:

I work for you. John McCain.

I am the one. B. Obama

Insofar as change is concerned, there is good change and bad change. Both are changes, this is true. Elitist, Chicgo-driven politics that thinks it has all the answers and does not seek inclusion of every American in the policy forum arena is bad change.

The reasoned middle-of-the-road American know spin when we see it. We know who is being earnest in reaching out to include everyone, and we know which one only reaches out with self-interest and condescending fashion.

Obama is losing the middle ground and he is running scared. It shows in the campaign attack rhetoric, it shows in the body language, and trust me, it is being seen by the middle. Romano's article asks, "Palin's Moderate Appeal?" The answer should be obvious to those whose vision isn't clouded by partisan politics.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:09:48 GMT

Brian I think you're right.

I've been coming in here since the Obama--Hillary thing, and my how the opinion dynamic has changed. More and more, the anti-Obama posts persist, while lonely remainders like ziadora continut to post all by their lonesome.

Without mention that Obam has never been mayor of anything--point to Palin--or, Governor of anything--point to Palin--and the only FP experience he has was a trip to Iraq, and Europe this summer.

All Palin has to do is catch a flight, smile for some cameras--and she's all caught up there too.

LOL

More experience. Better values.

Mccain/Palin 08

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:13:39 GMT

BTW

Latest poll numbers on experience according to voters.

Mccain Palin--54% say has more experience

Obama Biden--34% say more experience

You are for sure a minority n your thinking Ziadora

facts--not opinion

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:14:15 GMT

Rametyn:

Logic and critical thinking has never been the far left's strongpoint.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:21:51 GMT

True. True.

Like did you notice in Ziadora's argument of issues she cited gay-lesbian rights, stem-cell research, relegion, and such--when these topics rank so low on kitchen table issues being discussed in this campign it is ridiclulous.

Z--these are the important issues right now--economy, homeland security, dependency on foreign oil, and education.

Get your head out of the nineties.

We have all moved on.

LOL

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:29:42 GMT

"Get your head out of the nineties.

We have all moved on."

Apparently to moveon.org. lol

The extremes of both sides don't drive the middle. Pragmatic concerns drive the middle ... I don't wonder "Gee, is my neighbor practicing gay sex in his bedoom?", my concern is, "Gee, how can we best free our economy from the grip of foreign oil? How can we spur more economic growth? How can we retrain Americans who's jobs withered away because of failed industries to be useful members of the economy again? How will this help my small business grow and prosper?"

McCain has a plan -- and I don't necessarily agree with all its details -- but it is a plan and I'll take him on his word about being willing to hear all parties and find the best solutions, regardless of source or credit. All I've heard from Obama is a promise to change and that they have all the answers. As far as I am concerned, anyone that promotes that they or government have all the answers frightens me. There is one word for a government and its leader that thinks that way -- totalitarian.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:36:14 GMT

Are you saying I have moved on to moveon.org?

When I just made the same argment, only with a diiferent point of reference?

I am a middle Indy voting for Mccain.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:38:45 GMT

I was telling Ziadora to get her head out of the nineties.

Huh?

LOL

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:42:01 GMT

Rametyn:

I meant the far left of the 90's has "moved on" to moveon.org, a bad play on words on my part, I guess. lol ... didn't mean you at all. I am a mostly middle of the road social issue New Mexican voting for McCain. I tend to be slightly right on foreign policy and military affairs, and I freely admit my leanings in those cases are due to my military service, and it helped shape my worldview. Trust me, your worldview is a lot different walking point in the jungle than it is in the halls of Congress -- something McCain knows, and Obama and Biden are clueless about.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:47:43 GMT

Funny thing Brain,

I served as an Ops Specialist during desert storm. We ran our campaign there from our station command on board USS NIMITZ CVN 68. So, I agree with you completely.

Small world, eh?

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:53:49 GMT

I come from a pretty "small town" myself. The kind Obama makes fun of. However, al least here there is a bronze plaque that hangs in my courthouse commemorating my service. A lot different from the belittling of military I hear living in a bigger area that is more "comsoplitan"

So give me small town middle enayday.

People like Obam may love his country, but had no idea how to sacrifice for it--and they make fn of the ones who do.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:53:57 GMT

So give me small town middle enayday.

People like Obam may love his country, but had no idea how to sacrifice for it--and they make fn of the ones who do.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Rametyn — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:54:06 GMT

So give me small town middle enayday.

People like Obam may love his country, but had no idea how to sacrifice for it--and they make fn of the ones who do.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:55:46 GMT

The band of brotherhood isn't a small world, Rametyn. Millions have served and are now in communities all over America. America is richer for it, I believe, and most certainly stronger. In this I agree with McCain -- America first. The men and women who have served in the military understand that lesson: that there is a cause higher than our selfish selves. And I will be the first to point out, that my selflessness doesn't hold a candle to McCain's ... I stand inspired by his courage and dedication.

It takes a big man to admit to the world, "And they broke me." They didn't break you, John ... they stripped away that ego of self that we all carry to some extent. On the issue of ego vs. a larger understanding and cause is reason enough to vote for McCain in my book. Character counts: because in the end, a man of character will more often than not make the right choice for the right reasons. A man of no character, or character based on self interest will only seek choices that promote the self.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

last patriot — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:02:55 GMT

I see posts where some of the sissy-boys are offended by the pictures of Ms. Palin on hunting trips with her family. Showing guns and game animals.

So does this mean that Democrats don't fish or rabbit hunt. Just Repulicans, right? Who are you trying to kid? You far left wing treehuggers and assorted loonies need to quit portraying yourselves as the "voice" of the party. The truth is that the main body of the Democrat party is still honest, red-blooded, decent folks with real American values. We still hunt and fish and eat fried chicken.

As long as we sit still and let loonies define our party for us, we risk the chance of letting others keep us out of offices we need to win.

People react with disgust at pictures of hunting. But have no problem of having a nice steak at the local restaurant tonite. Does it matter if an animal was raised in a pen instead of the outdoors. Is that how we determine the "worth" of an animal and it's right to live?

There is nothing wrong with hunting and fishing, cutting a tree for lumber, wearing leather shoes or furs or using oil for our energy needs. Really, if you think about it, how do you have a civilization without the steel and lumber industries and the agriculture /livestock industries? And what are your alternatives? Back to the caves? Sure, these things cause some levels of pollution, which we should control as best we can. But the facts are, when you work,..... you get dirty. Some of you may not be familiar with that aspect of life.

We forced our steelmills and other dirty industries over seas and now we complain about our lowpaying jobs. We need to stand up and tell the world that the looney left does not speak for the majority of Democrats and let them know we are not the silent majority any longer. We want to do honest work for a fair wage and not have extremists paint us all alike. The radicals get the press and we get the blame. That is not the America I remember. I am a lifelong member of the UAW and i resented Clinton and his NAFTA program. But that does not mean we have to take it lying down. We can still change things. We can still hunt and fish while we're at it. Go ahead, take that canoe trip and build a campfire. Just be careful. We can take care of the land while we use it. We have been too quick to let the actions of a few keep the rest of us from enjoying life. Enough!

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:10:22 GMT

Bravo, last patriot. The middle is made up of both Democrats and Republicans who do this country's work, who aren't afraid of getting dirty, and who abhor this climate of "political correctness," derision and division that both extremes have driven. Too bad there isn't a third, middle of the road party, they'd win hands down every time.

I agree responsible stewardship doesn't mean "don't use it" it means "be responsible and careful in how you use it." Leave the world a better place than you found it. In most political matters, the middle can find a compromise that works without compromising principles. The extremes of both parties don't seem to get that.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:25:54 GMT

I hope that, should McCain win by a sufficiently wide margin, that the party machinery doesn't take it to mean "Republican business as usual" is a mandate.

No, I hope they take it to mean "Americans are fed up with Congress, with our government and the special interests and the fringe of both sides. We want our system to work without the hate-filled finger-pointing and rhetoric being driven (in large part by extremists) as a wedge to getting this country's business done. I agree with last patriot's assessment of the Democratic Party, they need to reclaim the reigns of reason. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have -- at the moment anyway -- anyone with the political, financial or character clout to do so.

I'll be the first to admit that -- from a superficial political perspective -- McCain doesn't have all the answers. But he does sincerely promote the idea of change, not from himself, but by the American people. As long as stays that course, he will turn out to be a great President. The constrast was clearly made that one uses change to promote career, and the other uses career to promote change. I'll take the proven the track record and leave the wunderkind sprinters to the Olympics where they rightly belong.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Hunnyman78 — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:28:49 GMT

Agree with you totally patriot. In the interest of full disclosure, I am a liberal and an Obama supporter and I work behind a desk all day. But that doesn't make me a crazy leftist, unlike the one's who get all the media coverage. What people do with their leisure time is their business. Go hunt, fish, love or do whatever you want (as long as it doesn't impinge on anyone else's rights). And there's nothing wrong with wanting to have higher-paying manufacturing jobs in this country. You're just going to have to be willing to accept the consequences of that (which I do) in the form of higher prices at the stores for those goods. Like it or not, the companies are out to make a profit and if they're labor costs go up by employing Americans, they're going to start raising prices, even more than they already have.

That's a part of the reason that I support Obama, the thought that we, as Americans should take care of each other. Sure his health care plan would be expensive, as would his college education tax credit, but in a country with as much wealth as this one, it should be a CRIME, that 1.85 million people a year declare bankruptcy due to their health coverage, or lack there of, or that a kid who has the grades can't go to school for financial reasons. It's important to tackle this on both ends. Control costs and provide benefits to those who need them.

Keep government out of places it doesn't belong (marriage or the bedroom as examples), but we, as Americans, owe it to ourselves to take care of each other. No other institution is capable of doing besides the federal government. A companies only allegiance is to it's shareholders and it's bottom line.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Monster Detective — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:05:09 GMT

last patriot makes an important point about the inconsistency in our attitudes toward hunting and the use of natural resources. But suggesting that those "far left wing treehuggers" don't share our values is misguided. We all wish for our nation to maintain a balance between liberty and responsibility. There is little disagreement even among those liberals that there is nothing wrong with hunting,fishing, or cutting a tree for lumber, but there is also a general consensus that we should act to make sure that there are still fish, game, and trees left for future generations. Resorting to insulting and deriding one another does not help us build a stronger union, nor reach agreement about how to reconcile these conflicting interests.

Similarly, those whose attitudes toward guns may be shaped more by exposure the violent gun crimes than by personal experience with hunting down our own supper are no less "honest, red-blooded, decent folks with real American values" than those who support the most libertarian gun policies.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Hunnyman78 — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:06:32 GMT

Amen Monster!

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:12:44 GMT

"But suggesting that those 'far left wing treehuggers' don't share our values is misguided."

It certainly is misguided ... ask any lumberjack who has been injured by the far left treehuggers driving spikes into trees for the expess purpose of injuring them. By the way, many of those lumberjacks are Democrats. Radicalism is what is defining the Democratic Party right now and I don't see a reform movement happening as we see with McCain in the US Senate and Palin in Alaska.

As I've said, and will continue to say: neither Palin or McCain are perfect. Their appeal to the middle -- which after all was the thrust of Romano's piece -- is that they have a demonstrable track record of reform. Most assuredly, not perfect reform -- because political powerbrokering in America does require some degree of PAC money and support regardless of party -- but still better than what the middle sees in Obama and Biden -- one the product of the corrupt Chicago political machine, the other the consumate Washington insider.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

last patriot — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:24:46 GMT

Couldn't help but notice the comment of one poster who thought the economy was the greatest problem facing our nation today, and maybe that is so. At least it is one of them for sure. Then on reflection i realized that neither McCain nor Obama have any expertise in that area and wondered indeed how many of our past Presidents did. I came up with pretty much of a blank, sad to say.

As far as Ms. Palin appealing to the moderates on this aspect, the only good thing i could say is that at least she probably won't come in with any preconceived notions. And it probably wouldn't matter for at least four more years anyway.

However on further reflection I concluded that it must not matter all that much for any incoming president, for in spite of the lack of credentials, they all surround themselves with advisers ( and so called experts) and we muddle through each recession/depression as they arrive. The results on the economy or lack thereof make good fodder for debates and campaigns ad nauseum.

The real truth is that economic cycles, by and large, come and go irrespective of the party affiliation of the President in office at the time. All us reasonable people know that factors beyond the control of politics precipitate these cycles. Presidents do not make economic policy, if any thing it is Congress who would have the greater effect.

But it is human nature to complain when things go poorly. However, we can't change human nature and we can't change the economy by voting in another figurehead. Whomever it be. Example: Clinton presided over a fairly good economic cycle. Was it him or his largely Republican Congress to get the credit. Neither! Just like the managers in baseball, Presidents get too much credit when things go well and too much blame when things go badly! The ranting and raving on blog pages from radicals both right and left will change nothing except in some cases make you feel a little better to get it off your chest.

If you just have to have something to direct your anger at (and I know this won't be near as satisfying) then direct it toward the evolution of communications and transportation in the last 70 or so years. That is what made possible the globalization of the marketplace and the subsequent loss of affluence of the American way of life. The fat and lazy attitude that always follows a prosperous empire added to the effect as we drifted into the decadence of a "recreation and free time" entitlement lifestyle. A lifestyle that most other nations have never had. Now that we have been awakened from our utopian slumber, we do what most would do. We whine.! But no need to despair. We are just doing what is normal. Hopefully, this too shall pass. We can either get on board and get back to work, stop demanding 6 weeks paid vacation and 25 dollars and hour, or we can stand by as we go down the tubes and watch 3rd world nations eat our lunch. Decide now!!!!

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:51:22 GMT

last patriot:

As a middle of the road voter, what appeals to me about Palin (and to McCain in a non-executive position) is this:

She balanced Alaska's budget, they now have a surplus.

She paid over $2000 to every Alaskan, over $1200 of it the direct result of oil surpluses based on her confronting their entrenched interests.

She has over an 80% approval rating in Alaska, even after the so-called "Troopergate scandal"

She passed sweeping reforms in Alaskan state politics

She brokered the largest construction project in North American history, a 1,715 mile $40 billion natural gas pipeline that will help in the fight against oil dependency.

So, while some of Palin's views don't match mine, that is "reform" I can put faith in. Not Obama's change without substance claims. McCain can stand on a solid record -- again, some of which I agree with and some I don't -- but here too McCain outshines Obama/Biden ... he has bucked special interests, the Senate, his own party and sitting presidents when he thought they were wrong.

That's what most Americans want. Someone who can honestly say "The buck stops here." Not in the inner Washington circle or the corrupt halls of Chicago politics of Obama/Biden. We want someone who we think has integrity, courage and the willingness to fight and who we think will listen to us, actually invite our views and ideas.

McCain and Palin, no matter the spin, have that reputation; Obama and Biden do not.

More to the point, the swell is building, the more the media and Obama attack Palin (and to an extent McCain), the more the backlash will reverberate. So go on, extremists of every stripe, keep up the attack, then you can cry for at least 4 more years and perpetuate the ugliness you have for the last 8.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Hunnyman78 — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:56:08 GMT

brian,

I think the primary disagreement that we'll have is whether or not McCain / Palin really represents reform. I know they're coming off like that, but Palin is now criticizing earmarks when as mayor she took over $26 million in them for Wasilla when she was mayor (between $5200 and $2900 per person, I've heard differing population estimates during that period). Earmakrs themselves aren't a bad thing. They are really the reason why you send representatives to government, to represent the interests of your district / state. Her posturing is coming off as hypocritical.

McCain had a great reputation of breaking with his party. Depending on whether he remains true to his statements in 2004 about being against the "irresponsible tax breaks in a time of war" or bends to the party line of no new taxes when we're running record deficits. Earmarks don't come close to touching the $407,000,000,000 deficits we're running. I've seen a Heritage Foundation report from end of last year saying that total earmarks for 2007 totaled only $2,888,431,427. None of which came from McCain. As a resident of Arizona, I feel cheated...

It sounds like he's blaming earmarks for all the budget evils of the world, when they represent only a very small part of the problem. In the long-term, removing all troops from Iraq (as their government is asking for), though expensive at the outset, is the best bet for reducing costs from a single source. Raising revenues is the other.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

last patriot — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:05:28 GMT

Really don't want to get into one of those "he said, she said" arguments; but, like brian of NM, I too feel many times that the party is leaving it's people behind in trying to be everything for everybody.

I once viewed Democrats as the "salt of the earth" kind of people, the ones who made America move and grow. Working people and common folks. But then sometime during Reagan's years (and probably as a result of the right swing then) the splinter groups began to congeal into a recognizable mass and found a home (much to the dismay of the rank and file) in the warm and cozy confines of the liberal party.

Almost without being noticed , the party was morphed into something vastly different than the JFK party to which i felt a strong attachment. First thing you know, we were the haven for Socialists and radicals. Then the feminists and the gays. Then the gunhaters and the greens. Of course we can't forget the welfare pros who have always been there. Then came the pro-choice and the strife within the party itself that that whole scene has caused (Catholics). Helluva melting pot wouldn't you say?

And then we wonder why it is so hard to get them all together behind one candidate.

My answer, the party has lost it's "salt of the earth" people. The ones they could count on. Remember the Solid South? Yeah, and they were always the Bible Belt back then too. So, you tell me who changed. The people or the party?

The accounts are legion of good Democrats who are asked why the left the party. Their answer, "I didn't leave the party, the party left me".

To make matters worse, the radicals are usually the activists in the party and we get a nominee who doesn't reflect our true constituency. I know that out of near 200 million Democrats in this country, we could have found a more viable candidate. One who reflected the silent majority opinion much better and who would have been eminently more electable.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:19:39 GMT

last patriot:

I have voted Democrat in the past ... though it has been a good long while, since the "salt of the earth" was replaced by the far left loonie tunes. I have also voted Republican.

Here is the caveat to the whole earmark thing: no politician of either party is free of it. As mayor, Palin's responsibility was to get as much as she could for her constituency, just as McCain, as a senator for Arizona does for his.

The difference is in drawing the line between those earmarks that serve a difinitive community good and those that are just the sake of getting pork in the barrel. In that regard, McCain and Palin have the track record to prove that they can fight it when needed. The same cannot be said of Obama and Biden.

I don't think McCain is the perfect candidate ... but he is the only one I see as reaching out to everyone during his acceptance speech. Did Obama do that? Not to me, he didn't. I don't feel inclusion -- or at least the HOPE of niclusion -- in anything he has proposed or said. Meanwhile, McCain has said he will listen to all ideas, regardless of source, and regardless of who gets credit.

I can live with that. Integrity and courage are tangible things to me, and McCain and Palin have proved theirs in many instances (note, many, not all). On the other hand, Obama and Biden have rarely -- if ever -- embodied that sort of political courage.

The rest of it -- energy policy, education policy and the rest -- will shake out in the political and public arena over the next four years. I guess the bottom line is that I trust McCain more than Obama -- definitely at the level of personal integrity, but also with political integrity.

Those who say it isn't about integrity deserve all the bs their politicians shovel down their throat. So I'll take the self-professed "imperfect public servant" to the "I am the one" any day.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

last patriot — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:20:16 GMT

Hunnyman,

Just when i was beginning to like you.

Now you tell us that you are a tax and spend kind of guy.

Well, i don't like it from Bush and the current Congress and I won't like it from whoever the next administration is.

We have to learn that you can't give everything to everybody , regardless of which party you want to call home. Just saying it's always been that way is not an excuse. Voters need to quit asking for handouts and politicians need to know that their re-election is not based on how much pork they funnelled to the folks back home.

We need to direct our spending to national security and infrastructure and let someone else to whom it matters spend 50 million on the silver salamander in South Podunk Basin or whatever!

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

last patriot — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:27:08 GMT

To paraphrae, I believe, Thomas Jefferson;

When the people learn they can vote themselves money, the Republic will fail.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Hunnyman78 — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:48:00 GMT

Patriot and Brian, first of all let me say thank you. It's rare that you can get into discussions like this without degenerating to whole lot of name calling and stupid accusations about junk that really doesn't matter (with the exception of the far left loonies comment) , but is just around to stir up headlines, as was put in by other commentors that seem prevalent around this website.

Yes, I am tax and spend, if that's what fiscal responsibility is known as. Silly me, I think using credit cards is stupid and I think borrowing excessive amounts of money to spend anything is stupid. I just believe that we should be able to pay for everything that we buy. Including national security, infrastructure AND health care and education. We're already leaving a $9 trillion debt to my son and his generation. Hell, I thought the $4 trillion figure I heard when I was growing up was bad, but this is insane. Taxes are going to have to go up one way or the other, there's no getting around it. It is irresponsible to think otherwise. Welcome to America.

And I'm not proposing the government pay for everything. Certain things can only be accomplished by government. If you had cancer without health coverage how would you feel about facing down those hundred's of thousands of dollars in doctor bills. We need to find ways to cut costs, but still provide care to those who need it. I've seen and talked to people who were quote health insurance rates of $1800 per month because of having a past ovarian cyst. That is ridiculous.

Gentleman, though we may disagree in our views, thank you for the discussion. Enjoy your hunting, fishing, timber cutting, feminism, gay sex and pot smoking (because it's really none of anyone's damn business if you like to do any of those things). If only all poltical discourse could be so civil.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:06:40 GMT

Hunnyman:

It's like McCain said ... the American people expect us to stop yelling at each other.

300 million people are going to bring 300 million life experiences to the table of discourse. If we spend all our time nitpicking over the apitizers (note: this is an intentional mispelling left in there for those who feel the need to denigrate style over substance because of their insecurity and having to cling to elitist snobbism), we will assuredly never get to the meat and potatoes of real issues.

Most neighbors find a way to amiacably settle their differences. The art of collegial compromise. It is why I can in good conscience vote for McCain and Palin. They have found, within the scummy waters of American politics, the means to broker compromises across often hostile party lines. Obama and Biden -- almost (if not fully) never.

If there is going to be change, I will cling to the hope that McCain and Palin will give American politics a nudge in the right direction. I know Obama/Biden will not. As far as the Democratic Party is concerned -- I hope someone emerges that is a real proponent of change, stands on blue-collar values and shakes the far left out. I also hope that the Republicans can shoulder McCain's challenge to "get back to basics" and shed the far right.

Maybe then, with the two kook fringes removed, can the rest of us get back to civil discourse and the solving our problems.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Hunnyman78 — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:31:28 GMT

Agree with your spirit brian and the idea, but not the substance. If McCain is elected, I hope you're right, but I doubt you are. I've heard enough venom out of the Republican party and Sarah Palin at the RNC to make my doubts even better founded. The latest "lipstick on a pig" comment and interpretation thereof makes me doubt McCain's campaign and it's sincerity. He says one thing and the campaign says another. He's no better than the other politicans.

I'll leave you with this last thought (as I do have work I need to get done so I can go spend time with my family). Our country has already had a C- president. We don't need another one who graduated from the naval academy as 894th out of a class of 899.

Good night from this loud and proud white-collar liberal.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:34:56 GMT

lol Hunnyman ... I think we'll wait a long time for Obama's concession speech on Nov. 4, he will be clinging to the hope that results from all 60 states will prove him a winner.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Hunnyman78 — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:46:39 GMT

I'll repost here after Nov 4th to rub it in your face brian...hehe

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

sowhatisnttaken — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:10:57 GMT

The 'bridge to nowhere' remarks by Ms. Palin are here assumed to be 'naked lies' but on another news stations they found Alaskans stating that she approved the concept before Congress came back with an inflated offer to pay for it. So, what is the truth? What is the function of the media?

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:23:21 GMT

sow:

If you ask the media, their purpose is to get Obama elected. Insofar as the Palin issue regarding the Bridge to Nowhere and other issues brought up by the "unbiased" media, I'll trust to Alaskans ... an 80+% approval rating tells me they approve of their governor's conduct of the state's business on their behalf. Which is a far cry from Congress' 9% approval rating -- the same Congress McCain has stood up to.

Will McCain and Palin introduce reform to Washington? I can speak for myself -- and as polls sbow among undecided middle of the road voters -- and for others that we want change, and we think McCain and Palin can do so more effectively than Obama/Biden.

Personally, Obama had a chance to impress me when McCain threw out the offer to jointly attend townhall-style meetings with unfiltered questions from the audience. Obama declined -- he can't do answers and policy that aren't delivered by TelePrompter. Or do we sweep his "uhh err umm" before European audiences under the rug?

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

annasplit — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:46:07 GMT

Posted By: timrogers (September 10, 2008 at 1:06 PM)

And you wonder what is wrong with this country. That mindset right there. I am not voting for McCain because I am white and he is white. I am voting for him because Obama scares the hell out of me with his self-serving agenda, questionable company, and his disdain for the United States who he is running to be the PRESIDENT of. Won't wear a flag pin on his lapel, bff's with a man who would rather say "God damn America" than try to fix what he sees is wrong with it. Sorry, I'll take a strong man or woman, any size shape or color who proclaims "God bless America" over the questionable ethics and morals of the other any day.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

annasplit — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:48:04 GMT

Obama declined -- he can't do answers and policy that aren't delivered by TelePrompter. Or do we sweep his "uhh err umm" before European audiences under the rug?

Thank you Brian. You make me want to stand up and cheer with your latest comment. How true that is. Obama is charismatic and appealing on many levels - just don't ask him to think and speak at the same time. Read and speak? No problem.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

rube — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:46:34 GMT

I am fascinated by the idea that Palin somehow represents a step forward for women?

When in reality the truth is Palin, is nothing more than a GOP pro oil (oilwoman) along side the 72 year old has been "Maverick" have beed deemed to take over for two flawed GOP oilmen that have assaulted our constitution and democracy!

A step up for women- she will destroy the greatness of what is left of our nation...

Final thought whats the big deal about lipstick?

50% of the nation that listened to her speech agree she is some sort of dog in lipstick! She said it herself!

Now the other 50% that listened to her speech most likely agree she is a pig in lipstick?

Sorry Senator Obama we know you were talking pig in lipstick as to Mccains idealology but theres alot of us who feel the second metaphor is more appropriate!

Obama/ Biden vs. Mccain/Palin

substance vs. vanity

education vs. abstinence

evolution vs. creationism

diplomacy vs. arbitrary war

intelligence vs. narcissism

liberty and science vs. right-wing self righteousness

sustainability vs. monopoly

democracy vs. plutocracy

Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Bush

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:50:03 GMT

rube:

Thanks for the glass of Grape Koolaid.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

rube — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 01:00:27 GMT

From the conservatives we get all the same arguments that you gave us during the Bush years...

hes experienced...

he will fix the budget...

he wants smaller goverment...

he wont police the world...

he has dignity...

he has courage...

hes like us...

all familar garbage!

Well we do know this, the Maverick and Bush are from the same party, the both voted for the war,

they both pushed for war, and they were in charge of the country during 9/11!

If I have to pick a candidate their party is part of the process- The GOP is a huge failure.

And the main reason congress is way down in the polls- the single largest reason is because they did not impeach those GOP no good for nothings!

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 01:18:44 GMT

rube:

Keep drinking the Koolaid. Your rubbish is exactly why most of the middle isn't listening to you or Obama these days. I can disagree with lots of politicians (McCain included) on many different issues: but there are very few I respect on a personal and political integrity level. McCain is in that category -- and that isn't just my take on it: he has a standing record of reaching across the aisle to work with Democrats to get legislation passed. Name an instance Obama has done the same.

That's what middle of the road Americans want to see. Politicians that reach out to find the compromise position. Not the likes of Reid in the Senate and Pelosi in the House, who haven't done anything. And if you think it is because they didn't oppose Bush, switch your flavor of Koolaid. Again.

Oh, just so you know ... Biden voted for the war as well.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

rube — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 01:21:30 GMT

Here brian, have a spalsh of narcissism over substance for that koolaid!

The economy

The Iraq War

9/11

How very conservative of you!

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 01:28:30 GMT

rube:

Substance:

The economy: While faltering due to oil fluctuations, it is better now than 8 years ago. Even with recent incresases, unemployment is still lower than under Clinton.

The Iraq war was voted on by the House and Senate, it passed. Once a war is declared, it is morally and physically cowardly to bad-mouth it, denigrate the US before its enemies, threaten to withhold funding for the well-being of those prosecuting the war. There is a word in the American language for such behavior: treasonous.

9/11: You can thank Clinton for 9/11 ... the intelligence vacuum in HUMINT (that's Human Intelligence) took a nose dive to spur his "peace dividend." You will note that there has been no further attack on US soil in Bush's watch. While I can fault the current president for many things, that certainly isn't one of them.

How head-in-the-sand of you. Save drive-by answers for your muddle-headed far-left friends.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

rube — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 01:32:16 GMT

Brian, your conjecture is totally void of though, or reflection of the past American history or the understanding of centralized economics- monopolies are the dearth of a true democracy.

You may never understand such a simple sentence.

You make this sound like its all about popularity- hence vanity vs. substance!

The same ideology from voters like you gave us Bush, and somehow McCains theology does not pertain to the current problems of the country? Nice conjecture dude!

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Hunnyman78 — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 01:51:14 GMT

/sigh

Brian, first fo all, yes Biden did vote for the war, but unlike McCain he was enough of a man to admit that it was a mistake. That was my one big beef against Clinton.

Second, Rube is right. It was voters who decided to vote based on "who they wanted to have a beer with" who gave us Bush, who, not coincidentally, also had a record to reaching across the aisle as governor of Texas.

McCain is a politician, and the only maverick part about his presence in the Senate was his not showing up when it was time to vote. He's had the worst attendance record in the Senate (and because you started the ignorant attacks with annasplits). He was probably busy napping or shooing kids off his seven lawns. His campaign finance reform bill was gutted and passed, leaving giant loopholes and easy corporate access in the form of soft dollars. it was a good way to get his name in the papers, but accomplished nothing else.

It is voters like this who make scared for America and the world. We don't need another warmonger in office. Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran. Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 01:55:01 GMT

Sorry to crack your rose-colored glasses and deflect your spin. The middle isn't buying your Koolaid according to the latest polls.

"You may never understand such a simple sentence." Way to promote your own insecure self-worth. I do understand it, I just don't bloviate.

Is it all about popularity? No. That you seem to think my words indicate that doesn't underscore my "rightness," just the degree to which you are to the left. Neither Bush nor McCain represent my ideology fully ... as well as many, many other Americans. However, McCain has reached out explicitly to all parties, all people for their ideas, regardless of who seeks "credit." I've not heard that from the other party.

Obama and the whole crowd of "bigger government, more taxes" will solve all our ills I don't buy either. Had Obama wanted me to listen, he would have taken McCain up on the town hall style meeting, answering unscripted questions from average Americans.

He didn't. You can promote your "conjecture" of government and economics all you wish, at the end of the day, the middle of the road isn't convinced Obama is on the map, let alone the right road.

I also note that you resort to rhetoric and leftist elitism in response to my last post, and not even a short summation (as I did) on each drive-by topic you posted. Enjoy your Koolaid ... but I suppose you'll scorn middle of the road Americans for bypassing your Koolaid stand as proof that we are anti-small business and entrepeneurship.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:03:28 GMT

Hunnyman:

McCain has rightly chided Bush for the conduct and prosecution of the war. But he sided with soldiers and the military: you give them what they need, define the geo-political sandbox and then let htem win. I've been at the crappy end of the stick in a war that wasn't politically "favorable" and that was driven by polls and Washington insiders. I don't want this generation of American soldiers, airmen, sailors and marines to face the same.

Like it or not, once committed to war, your goal is to win it as quickly and bloodlessly as possible. Cut and run doesn't work. Vietnam undermined our military for a decade and I don't want to see the current generation of men and women in the same straits as the military was in during the mid 70s to early 80s.

As for voting records and the like ... don't even go with Mr. State Legislator "Present" and his virtual non-attendance in the US Senate. It doesn't wash in the Rio Grande.

And, I admit, I am a bit disappointed in your partisan, misrepresentative comments after the earlier discourse.

And don't even give me that "voters who wanted to have a beer with" garbage. Unlike the elitist mentality, we out here in "flyover" country don't all drink PBR, live in double-wides and have a car up on blocks in our front yard.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brightette — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:08:15 GMT

McCain/Palin represent 5% of the American People. Those that earn $2,500.000 yearly. I would love to be in that 5% but even with a BS Degree, and having worked all my life, I am still just over the proverty level. I am a 57 yr old female that is the proud mother of one beautiful young lady that is also a college grad, who is single and raising a 5 yr old daughter, that she is not the biological mother of. We are struggling everyday to exist. She has a cronic illness, and medicals bills galore. We are proud and we were taught to work, and be good citizens. We are both believers (God Fearing, and trusting), we do not however impose our beliefs on other. We will all answer to God for ourselves. I am voting for Obama because he represents the other 95% of America. I do not begrude the rich, I have never wanted to be rich, just able to live a decent life and have enough money to enjoy the simple things. I love what America STOOD for. Those things that other countries use to think about us. the land of opportunity, where hard work leads to success. Today America is seen as the bully nation, forcing our ideology on other countries, going to war over oil. Many here are willing to put 2 of the biggest liers ever into office to continue the rape of the middle class. Why? I fully understand the 5% voting for MCSAMEPLE, because he has there best interest as a priority. Take from the middle and give to the top. But why in the H!!!! would anyone making less than $2,500.000, vote for him is unbelievable. You need to look at some of the posting from the money people. I will be lol at you in my BMW while you're parked by the road out of gas. God help us. People Barack Obama is the only answer for us. But you vote for the pretty lip stick bit bull and Mr. don't know how many houses he has.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brightette — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:08:18 GMT

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:15:15 GMT

brightette:

You begin, as they say in Logic, with a false premise: "McCain/Palin represent 5% of the American People." That is not what current polls indicate.

"I am voting for Obama because he represents the other 95% of America" The polls don't support that conclusion either.

You say you have a BS degree. That is a laudable accomplishment. But, unfortunately, they didn't teach Logic and Critical Thinking, or if they did, you didn't take it.

There is much in the McCain ticket with which I disagree from a policy perspective. But Mr. "Born in the Politicly Corrupt Chicago Political Sytem" Obama I disagree with far more. Maybe he could have sold he on his ideas ... if he had agreed with McCain to join in town hall meetings that were unscripted and answered off-the-cuff questions from average Americans.

You can take your TelePrompter wunderkind and keep him.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

tjones1942 — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:18:59 GMT

Why hasn't anyone asked about Sarah Palin's education? She went to 6 schools over a 6 year period and ended up with a BA in Journalism from the University of Idaho. That is the sum total of her formal education. Not really what you would expect from someone running for VP or as a possible President.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:22:22 GMT

tjones1942:

It didn't seem to bother the Alaskan voters, what political motivation could you -possibly- have bringing it up?

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

tjones1942 — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:48:54 GMT

If you consider the issues, i.e. the war in Iraq, the economy, the gas prices, the food prices, unemployment, womens rights, pro-choice, karl-rove tactics and mean spirited evil campaigning like McCain said he would not do, etc how can anyone vote Republican? McCain has not only adopted Bush-like tactics, he has taken the entire Bush Team including Karl Rove to make this one of the dirtiest elections ever. If brianNM had a brain he would see how stupid he really is and just how far his racism is taking him. Obama is the change agent and is the hope for the future. McCain is another 4 years of George Bush. Palin has zero experience and education. She is unprepared for the job and would never had made it through the debates. So far she has acted like a parrot that complains about everything and parrots the messages given her by the Bush team working for McCain. If you vote for the Republicans this country is in real trouble and I will say I told you so. Save the country, vote Obama in 2008

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

tjones1942 — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:53:41 GMT

It bothers me that you don't get it brianNW. How many CEO's have a BA in Journalism? What did she learn that makes her qualified to run this country? Intelligence counts for somehting and so far i don't see much from the Republicans. John McCain was 894 of 898 in the Naval Academy and she ddin't fare too well in school going to 6 schools to get a BA. I can see why you don't get it.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:56:09 GMT

Thanks tjones ... go enjoy your Koolaid. You resort to ad hominems (no, you imbecile, that has nothing to do with hominy grits) and you don't even know me or my motivations. Way to influence the middle, undecided vote. Based on your response alone, I'm more inclined to vote for McCain/Palin. Thanks for contributing to clarity of style, substance and issues.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:59:31 GMT

What part of 80+% approval rating in Alaska don't you get. And, in my experience, formal education isn't worth a squat if you don't have the common sense to tie your own shoes.

As far as John McCain's ranking at USNA, that still places him in the upper 1% of college graduates nationally: the standards at the service academies are tough, as are the entrance requirements. I'll take the bottom graduate of the USMA, West Point over the summa *** laude of Cal Berkeley any day.

I can see why you don't get it ... you've got your elitist glasses pressed too tightly to the bridge of your nose.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

tjones1942 — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 03:00:29 GMT

Being the Governor of Alaska is a lot different than being the President of the USA. Education means you have a base of understanding to govern. Like they say, Republicans run campaigns, but they don't govern well. People like you put Bush in office. Education is part of everyones resume. Sarah Palin has not presented herself to the people of the USA. She lacks experience and education.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

tjones1942 — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 03:04:36 GMT

So you would prefer someone without an education to be President of the USA. You are the one that doesn;t get it. You are a fool brianNM. I am not an elitist like you. You think graduating 894 at the naval Acadamy is great stuff. Give me a break. What a jerk.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 03:12:41 GMT

Do you understand that Sarah Palin is the VP nominee?

Her experience belies your assertion:

She has passed sweeping political reforms.

She brokered a $40 billion, 1,715 mile natural gas pipeline that will help America reach energy independence - by the way, it is the largest construction undertaking in North American history.

She oversees and commands the Alaska National Guard.

As was so rightly observed: on her first day as mayor, she surpassed both Obama's and Biden's executive experience.

She has pointed out corruption within her own political party.

She enjoys an 80%+ approval rating, even with the so-called "TrooperGate scandal" -- means most Alaskans think she's doing just fine, thank you.

Oh, is there dirt on Sarah? One cannot enter the corrupt morass of American politics and expect to remain stain-free. But she's a heck of a lot cleaner than Obama the Chicago political machine wunderkind or Joe "Where's the PAC Money" Biden. The same with McCain. Given the number of fights on the national scene, you pick them carefully, as he has done, and on consistent principle.

Do I buy into the whole Republican deal? No. But did I hear Obama challenge his party to "get back to basics" at his convention?

Need I go on? I'll take McCain/Palin, because right now they are the only ones that have a legitimate claim to be proponents not only of change, but reform -- however tenuous the claim, it's the only halfway legitimate one on the table. Time will judge whether they deliver.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 03:15:14 GMT

Here's the difference, tjones. A graduate of the service academies will tolerate you calling them a jerk and then go out and defend your right to call them one. Pissant. Go on, keep giving me and the others in the middle more reason to vote McCain.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

polchat — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 04:14:40 GMT

If Palin becomes President in the 2010s, and winds up betraying conservatives the same way Bush did in the 2000s, there won’t be an animal doctor in the world who’ll be able to save this particular dying elephant.

For all the good Bush has done from a national-security perspective, it’s hard to forgive the man for repeatedly driving a sharp knife into the back of the conservative movement. From No Child Left Behind to the refusal to secure the borders, Bush has spent most of his administration trying to impose a big-government vision upon those who were firmly committed to small-government doctrine. Bush, like his father and Richard Nixon, ultimately didn’t do much for the right. Perhaps Bush had some conservative instincts, but he promptly forgot them once he went to Washington.

Republicans in the House and Senate also betrayed their conservative supporters in the 2000s, becoming fiends who spent their days pumping cronyism and corruption into their veins. The Washington Establishment proved to be an irresistible mistress for Congressional Republicans, one whose charms were so overpowering that they could not stop themselves from sinning. If Palin becomes President, will she also be led into temptation?

Conservative commentators David Frum and Charles Krauthammer have cast a skeptical eye upon Palin, arguing that she may not have sufficient experience for the role of Vice President. Frum and Krauthammer have received withering criticism on center-right message boards for their views, but I understand why both men are a bit cautious. At the end of the day, how do we know that Palin will not betray us?

All conservatives ask for is loyalty. If a Republican politician says he or she will go to Washington to relieve the oppressive burden of big government, we want that person to do so. Reagan worked his tail off for eight years to live up to his conservative commitments. Bush seemingly didn’t even try. Frum and Krauthammer are not wrong to wonder if Palin will end up more like Bush than Reagan if and when she becomes the 45th President.

Washington’s temptations are unusually strong, and it takes an unusually strong person to resist them. Palin seems like an unusually strong woman. Yet one can’t help wondering: will she break under pressure? Will she yield to the desires of the hacks, the cronies, the Big Government apparatus?

On the surface, Palin is a woman of intense fortitude. She has weathered the mainstream media’s rough assault with charm and style. She has battled against the corruption of Alaska, the machinations of former family members, the perversity of hypocritical feminists. She is, in so many ways, awesome.

Yet Bush was awesome too—a man who, with an assist from a Higher Power, beat back the demons of alcohol addiction, a man who led Texas to excellence in the 1990s, a man who spoke the language of those who embraced America’s traditions and values. He was the Sarah Palin of 1999-2000—and look what happened to him.

We want to love Palin. We want to believe that she is Reagan reincarnated, the new Newt, the girl Goldwater. We want to believe that she is the one we have been waiting for.

Yet, as Frum and Krauthammer ask, what if this is all an illusion? What if she turns out to be just another suit, this time in a dress? What if she becomes just another warm body wasting our tax money and ignoring our pleas for true reform in Washington?

Palin is an acceptable risk, but she is a risk nonetheless. If she manages to succeed John McCain as President, she will become the leader of a squalid kingdom dominated by egomaniacal elites who care only for themselves, not the people. These elites are powerful, and they promise riches and prestige if one will only bow to their will. These elites captured the souls of past Republican Presidents, many Republican Senators and Representatives, even a few Republican Supreme Court appointees. Is Palin strong enough to resist being taken into their lair and stripped of her dignity? If the answer is no, then the GOP will be stripped of its reason for existence.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

minduourownshoes — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 04:23:23 GMT

Vote for a Democrat and you are srewed. It just doesn't work.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Hunnyman78 — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 04:39:14 GMT

brian,

as someone who was nominated for entrance into the Naval Academy, it's not hard to get. Keep decent grades and have connections...like McCain. He's a legacy, my father, as a local official, knew our congressman. An apparently unlike you, Mr. Blue-Collar values, I decided to work my tail off after high school and not get caught up in the beer drinking and late teenage pregnancy I saw going around me in the deserts of Southern California. I attended school on loans and pell grants while working full-time to pay the bills, having parents with a combined income of $40k, who couldn't afford to send me to school. So don't say anything until you know what you're talking about...which judging from your comments about "Obama declined -- he can't do answers and policy that aren't delivered by TelePrompter. Or do we sweep his "uhh err umm" before European audiences under the rug?" you really shouldn't be speaking at all.

I'm already planning for my son's future and I'll be damned if some ignorant, "values" voters who're afraid of a guy who knows how to read, (which is useful when you might think that reading intelligence reports titled "Bin Laden determined to strike inside the United States" per Condy, might actually come in handy. The intelligence was in place during the early Bush years, he was too busy spending one third of his time on vacation. Similar again to McCain in fact, his house in Sedona is really nice.) because he didn't wear a flag pin or hold his hand over his heart when a picture was taken during the national anthem.

Your and others reasons for voting for McCain in this election are downright terrifying. Ignorance is Bliss, for McCain voters. Maybe once he's finished consulting with the 130+ registered national lobbyists in his campaign, he'll come up with some other way to insult the intelligence of the voters who believe that the issues are really what matter. Energy policy won't just "work itself out" as you stated before. Washington needs to be changed, but it's the voters who need to change it, and not count on some gray-haired old man with a woman who bought the loyalty of her constituency with oil money from the rest of the countries pockets (how else would she get an approval level that high...doing something useful, like investing in infrastructure...nah, let them go buy more ammunition and helicopter fuel so they can hunt moose and wolves from the air...like real sportsmen).

Like last patriot said: "To paraphrae, I believe, Thomas Jefferson;

When the people learn they can vote themselves money, the Republic will fail"

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 05:17:26 GMT

Hunnyman:

I hate to burst your "blue collar values" bubble illusion ... I spent 10 years on active duty in the US Army, and 24 in the Guard. Of my time on active duty, I taught for two summers at the USMA, West Point. Getting the appointment might not be hard for the legacies. But staying in is. Duty. Honor. Country. That's what they teach in addition to a demanding engineering curricula. I doubt you could have hacked it.

I was a draftee who decided to enlist ... being a service brat, I knew the advantage to enlisting and did. Hard work? Hump a LRRP ruck in Vietnam's Central Highlands ... it's hard work and there are people out there trying to kill you. I've seen "intelligence" from the pointy end of the stick, gotten my hands and more dirty getting it so policymakers could keep their hands clean and write position papers.

Later, I received my commission, and the remainder of my service was as a platoon leader, company commander and as an intelligence and operations officer. I am trained to evaluate actual conditions on the ground through reality-induced glasses, not the Koolaid tinted ones you seem to don with eager readiness. Yes, Obama can deliver a speech -- he's quite charismatic when everything goes according to script. But life in the real world doesn't go according to script ... and what do we get from Obama ... ahh, err, umm ... that inspiring rebuttal ought to command respect when getting that 3 a.m. call.

I'm glad you started in with the ad hominems ("ignorant 'values' voter, et alia), I will maintain the moral high ground (with the exception of the tinted glasses comment). But knock off your phony condescending high-horse crap. My mom tried to raise four kids alone, all of us got college money on our own, and my youngest sister, at age 40+ is striving valiantly to get her degree without handouts or public accolade.

130 advisors, I'll take that over Obama's 300+ foreign affairs advisors, and god-knows how many others. As for the the facts: McCain laid the offer on the table to campaign jointly with Obama and debate directly before the American voters, taking unscripted questions from the crowd. Obama ran for the hills, so don't obfuscate with your rhetoric about the "ah err um" off-the-cuff speaking abilities of Mr. Obama. He hadn't the moral or political courage to engage the "enemy" decisively on the field of battle, his stance is one common to a force holding an inferior position or an untenable one.

I quite enjoy your closing quote of Jefferson: now go apply it to Mr. "Where's the PAC Money" Biden. Having worked for some time on and near Capitol Hill for the US Government Printing Office, I was privy to not only the production of the daily record of Congress, but as an agency liaison to the Hill, the workings of politics therein. But, of course, your tinted glasses didn't let you see that, did they?

So there -- take your elitist, self-righteous, pompous and values and shove them. You want to woo the middle of the road vote? You just failed Political Dating 101.

Ignorance is bliss, Hunnyman, I see you are quite content in yours..

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 06:20:02 GMT

As a postscript:

I thought Democrats were supposed to be the "everyman" party -- you know, blue-collar workers in the mines of Pennsylvania and West Virginia, auto workers in Detroit. Yet, all I see is constant denigration by the liberal left. last patriot was right: the party of his affiliation is abandoning him to left-wing kook ideologies and elitist snobs. "Oh, you didn't go to such-and-such school, you don't have a college education? Oh, you must be a blue-collar worker incapable of thinking for themselves."

And unfortunately, white and blue collar workers in the middle see this and given the choice between Dumb and Dumber, chose Dumb. Obama, protege of Cook County corrupt politics is the best you Democrats can do? The brilliant orator that has to steal lines from U2's Bono in Europe?

Meanwhile, he touts the same big government, spend til we're bancrupt policies. Pie in the sky altruism on the backs of the workers. This is change? Actually it is, but alas it is BAD change. Where is the substance behind his "ideas" (or more accurately, ideology)? He sure hasn't sold anyone but party loyalists on it convincingly.

Go on libs, keep jabbing at working ethics and lack of formal education. Not only will you tick off the middle, you might actually start eroding your party base in places where they "cling to their guns and religion."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not sold on the tax-and-spend Republicans either. McCain told his party to "get back to basics" -- I hope they do. Now, where's the Democratic candidate with the same balls to say that to his national convention?

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

swixie810 — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:14:52 GMT

Brian, THANK YOU! My thoughts: I believe most of us vote for a presidential candidate based on one or two issues that are personally important. I'm DONE listening to the naive rantings of those who are critical of the war in Iraq. Whether or not one agrees with the war in Iraq is irrelevant.We were brutally attacked on our own soil 7 years ago. How did that happen? I want a president with a strong background and experience in the military. Reason, logic, and eloquence don't mean squat to people capable of delivering the catastrophic tragedy that was 9/11.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 14:10:55 GMT

Swixie:

Thank you, every vote counts as exactly one vote, use yours wisely.

I would like to take this moment to call for a moment of unity in honor of those who lost their lives on 9/11/2001.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

kscannon — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:55:10 GMT

Who is running for President? Palin or McCain? HA! Great strategy Repubs. McCain is too weak against Obama, so let's bring in a different personality and take the focus off the REAL candidate.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:15:58 GMT

kscannon:

It is the Obama camp that focuses on Palin, not McCain's. Nice try at obfuscation, though. Obama turned down an offer by McCain to campaign jointly in town hall meetings and answer unscripted questions from American voters. Obama refused, and this was before either side had named their VP pick.

So keep drinking that Koolaid, and please try not to choke: you'll have a long wait for medical services with Obama's bloated government-run health care system. Don't believe me, go ask Canadians and Brits why they have to wait so long for treatment in their inept socialistic programs.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

Monster Detective — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:45:10 GMT

It is touching that brianNM is concerned that others might "have a long wait for medical services with Obama's bloated government-run health care system." Of course, one wonders why he is not equally concerned for the 40 million or so of us for whom help won't come at all.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:01:44 GMT

Monster Detective:

Don't put words in the mouths of others. There is huge concern by lots of folks about affordable healthcare for those who can't currently afford it. A government-run boondoggle isn't the answer. I honestly don't believe in HMO's either -- I'd rather that lawyers and accountants not have the ultimate say in my healthcare.

So the floor is open to discusson -- let's hear your ideas, rather than drive-by stupidity.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

God's_Believer — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:55:44 GMT

Doctors do not know all the answers. Prayer has worked miracles; brought people back from the brink of death and even saved people from comas.

What is more important is the opportunity for the Evangelical community here. It is said that McCain is to old, and that Palin will be the real power behind the thrown. I say if that is true it is God’s will. Sara will lead us in the right path. God wants us to fight for what is right.

All those weak kneed liberals who are worried about the environment or retirement aught to figure out the Rapture is coming, and Palin knows that. What mattes is what we do now. God will take care of all the creatures and children. Christ said bring unto me the children, so feel not sad for those who must/will perish in the rapture, for their immortal souls are more important, and that is what truly counts. Sara Palin will be there to lead us against the Godless Muslims and if Russia or China get in the way, they will know the fire of GOD, she has said so.

A vote for Palin is a vote for God, McCain is irrelevant, he won’t even live out the first year of his presidency more than likely. He knew what to do when he was told, that is why Palin is on the ticket. McCain knows where his bread is buttered, so don’t worry about him, he will do as he is told. Palin is the real strength here. Evangelicals can rejoice that we are but a single heart beat away from restoring America to the Christian Land it was meant to be, and then the idolaters will quake in their boots as the army of GOD is finally fully mobilized.

In GOD’s future HMO’s will not be needed. Social Security is a joke, my children will never live to see it anyway.

re: Palin's Moderate Appeal?

brianNM — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 15:40:07 GMT

God's_Believer:

While I support your choice of McCain, I reject your "God's will" premise. God isn't into politics, remember the "render unto Caeser what is Caeser's" policy established in scripture? So a vote for McCain/Palin isn't a vote for God, it's a vote for people of conscience who are going to Washington to work for the people and hopefully undertake massive reforms of government, lobbying on Capitol Hill and the US Congress.

I also reject your notion that McCain is irrelevant and teetering on death's doorstep. I find it a bit unChristian in its underlying tenor -- what person of conscience would wish for his demise? Palin represents a major step forward in Republican politics and -- regardless of how this election turns out -- will be a leading political star for the party for years to come.