The Tale of Two Debates

re: The Tale of Two Debates

BunchofChemies — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 05:08:51 GMT

Sarah Palin's performance was a microcosm of her candidacy. She started off sounding enthusiastic, folksy, and answered the actual questions. But then, she had to start avoiding questions and substituted memorized talking points instead of answers. She ultimately failed to connect to the voters in either an intellectual or a emotional, human way.

Joe Biden was masterful. He was in command of the issues, easily demonstrating mastery of the intellectual part of the debate. But, he also connected in an emotional way, mostly by his recollection of his family's accident, but also by showing real outrage about Dick Cheney and the bullshit about McCain being a "maverick" on the important issues that this current administration has mishandled.

The contrast between the two shows the wisdom of Obama in picking Biden and the impulsiveness of McCain in picking Palin.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

FREETHINKINGAMERICAN — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 05:21:04 GMT

Palin did not answer questions (she even said she was not going to!). She just recited memorised talking points that had nothing to do to with the question. She probably did not even understand some of the questions - Achilles Heel ( what's that?) Her answers were vague and repetitive : simply assertions with no supporting evidence and with very little substaance. Cute folksy colloquialisms, and trite, empty campaign are not debating.

Biden, in contrast, was on target : answering questions with assertions that were developed into substantial arguments supported (for the most part) with solid facts, and was on one occasion, when talking about his famiy, truly moving.

Guardian readers gace Biden the victory by 79% to 21. So did CNN readers.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

ExDemo — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 06:10:25 GMT

Zzzzzzz.....They both were kind of boring. Biden seemed timid in answering, but polite. Palin was more engaging, but still a little distant on substance. It was a strange debate. It was sad to see Biden talk so much about George Bush. That really is irrelevant now, no matter who wins. Joe seemed a little caught up in that and got sidetracked. It was like he was debating George Bush. And it was very evident that he wished he was debating for the Presidency instead of VP.

The scoring:

Palin: B

Biden: B-

The Debate: C+

Gwen Ifill as Moderator: D - could she get anymore annoying?

re: The Tale of Two Debates

ik.nha.tun@gmail.com — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 06:18:25 GMT

From "fact of the Matter"

http;www.need4trth.blogspot.com

The debate with Senator Biden and Governor Palin was interesting yet, instructional. Governor Palin demonstrated tonight that she is really a PUPPETTED MOUTHPIECE of the Republican Party. On a personal note: I became convinced the Gov. Sarah Palin was a forced choice for VP on the Republican side, that it was last minute, and that it was totally for 'POLITICAL EXPEDIENCY'.

Tonight we saw an image, a very beautiful, dressed up, republican image, of an RNC,, SYCOPHANT. Perfect analogy. Dictionary.com defines sycophant as a self-seeking, servile flatterer; fawning parasite. In modern terms, "A yes man/woman, flunky fawner, flatterer. Nothing more. Governor Palin demonstrated this perfectly. She in other words was the perfect "republican talking point".

Governor Palin tried to attack Senator Biden on supposedly flip-flopping on issues of which he now agrees with Senator Obama and at one point had agreed and supposedly even endorsed Bush/McCain's war strategies. This accusation led Senator biden to trounce the policies of Bush/McCain by pointing out the failures of hese policies especially our position in NATO as to not be a dictatorship, as Bush/McCain have allowed and endorsed as diplomatic policy. It was a wonderful moment of silencing a someone parroting a republican lie. I loved the fact that Senator Biden used the term of the title of this blog "Fact of the Matter." The Fact of The Matter is Governor Palin came out on the stage to Parrot Lies.

One of the most defining arguments occurred when Governor Palin endorsed The Bush Cheney, idea of what is the job of the vice president. Senator Biden pointed it out that the Constitutions latitude for the Vice President was very smaller than that of which Cheney abused it's powers as. The defining job of the Vice Presidents role is two things, in the unfortunate event that the sitting President dies the Vice President then steps in to that office. the other definition of the office of Vice President is too be the tie breaker in the senate vote. Biden knocked that one out of the ballpark.

THE MAVERICK REFORMER IMAGE OF JOHN MCCAIN STRIPPED AND LAID BARE FOR WHAT IT IS A LIE......

One final comment I have is this the title, "Maverick", which the Corporate Media has invented for John McCain, was thoroughly undone when Biden went down the voting record of a POLITICAL YES-MAN that is McCain's TRUE record. Many things which have adversely affected our economy, our standing in the world, but especially Main Street. John McCain has shown non support for the regular American person, which would constitute a Maverick standing. It was pointed out that McCain sided with Bush on all of the failed policies of this Administration. I LOVED IT.

I have felt that the Corporate Media and Senator McCain use that title as well as his supposed Hero status much too loosely. General Wesley Clarke pointed out RIGHTLY that getting shot down while in an airplane doing illegal maneuvers, and becoming a POW was not the LITMUS TEST for Presidential readiness.

FINAL COMMENTS.....

In Bidens final statements he brought up this point about what the RNC and John McCain has been engaging in during this campaign. He said He, like Senator Obama would NEVER question the motive of someones ambition for the office of public service. John McCain has engaged in this UGLY STYLE OF CAMPAIGN EVEN AFTER HE PROMISED HE WOULD NOT. Governor Palin in her attacks endorsed john McCain and the RNC's political strategies. She in a sense said, "John's lying and being very ugly and demonstrating political immaturity, I'm Governor Sarah Palin and I approve this propaganda style campaigning."

Now for the facts from Factcheck the Wire :

Troop Levels Off

Palin got her numbers wrong on troop levels when she said that troops were now down to “pre-surge” levels. The surge was announced in January 2007, at which point there were 132,000 troops in Iraq according to the Brookings Institute Iraq Index. As of September 2008, that number was 146,000. President Bush recently announced that another 8,000 would be coming home by February of next year. But that would still be 6,000 more than when the surge began.

Posted under FactCheck.org

This post was written by Justin Bank on October 2, 2008

Killing Afghan Civilians?

Obama did say that troops in Afghanistan were killing civilians, a claim that Palin calls “untrue.” Here’s the whole quote, from a campaign stop in New Hampshire:

Obama, August 2007: We’ve got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we’re not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there.

The Associated Press fact-checked this one, and found that in fact U.S troops were killing more civilians at the time than insurgents: “As of Aug. 1, the AP count shows that while militants killed 231 civilians in attacks in 2007, Western forces killed 286. Another 20 were killed in crossfire that can’t be attributed to one party.” Afghan president Hamid Karzai had expressed concern about these civilian killings, a concern President Bush said he shared.

Posted under FactCheck.org

This post was written by Jess Henig on October 2, 2008

2005 Energy Bill Deja Vu

Palin threw out an old canard when she criticized Obama for voting for the 2005 Energy bill, saying, “that’s what gave those oil companies those big tax breaks.”

It’s a false attack Clinton used against Obama in the primary and McCain himself has hurled. It’s true that the bill gave some tax breaks to oil companies, but it also took away others. And according to the Congressional Research Service, the bill created a slight net increase in taxes for the oil industry.

Posted under Barack Obama, FactCheck.org

This post was written by Justin Bank on October 2, 2008

The Iraqi Surplus

Biden said that Iraq had an “$80 billion surplus.” Obama said the same — $79 billion — in the last debate, and we called him on it then. Seventy-nine billion is an out-of-date projection. The Iraqis currently have $29 billion in the bank, and could have $47 billion to $59 billion by the end of the year.

Posted under FactCheck.org

This post was written by Jess Henig on October 2, 2008

Obama Voted Against Troop Funding?

Palin repeated the claim that Obama “voted against funding our troops.” The claim refers to a single 2007 vote against a war funding bill. Obama voted for a version of the bill that included language calling for withdrawing troops from Iraq. President Bush vetoed it. (McCain supported that veto, but didn’t call it “vetoing support for our troops.”) What Obama voted against was the same bill without withdrawal language. And he had voted yes on at least 10 other war funding bills prior to that single 2007 no vote.

Posted under FactCheck.org

re: The Tale of Two Debates

marcharino — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 06:46:06 GMT

I think the tactic by the main-stream media of ridiculing Sarah Palin backfired tonight at the VP debate, because the MSM set the bar and the standard for what was expected from the Governor. All she had to do was rise above the characterization of Tina Fey in the Saturday Night Live skit and not say something like, "... and I can see Russia from my house." Nonetheless, I don't even think Hilary could have debated the overly-seasoned and well-done professional politician, Senator Joe Biden, as well--and that's if Bill stayed home!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

justamom41 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 06:53:08 GMT

Wow, this post says it all. The only thing this boring, uneventful (no matter how the media tried to spin it) debate showed tonight was that Jo B is more than qualified and SP can only regurgitate what's been shoved down her throat. If American doesn't vote the truth.. we deserve what we get!!!! Obama/Biden 08... the only answer.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

justamom41 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 07:02:43 GMT

And as for you who criticize Gwen, I want to see all of you men go to work the day after you break your ankle and not complain!!!! Yeah right!!!!!! I've taken care of the Mr. when he has so much as a cold, and even he (although he is my hero) could not have performed as she did tonight. But we women are used to carrying the world on our broken ankles.... Unlike SP, we dont use the fact that we are strong women to get ahead in the world... we just do it and dont complain.... Ladies, please stand up for our rights, and dont let Carabou Barbie fool you! Shes not for us, shes for Carabou Barbie and her very own interests!!!!!!!! She is not what we fight for every day!!!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

mistabeanz — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 07:45:51 GMT

I think people need to know the true meaning of the word 'maverick', as it is really not a compliment, and it would not be a good thing to elect one, or specifically, a couple of people that refer to themselves as such...

also do a little research on Samuel Maverick, who is a likely origin {along with the definition of the animal} for the implied and diluted use of calling these candidates 'mavericks'....

re: The Tale of Two Debates

wilder5121 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 08:20:08 GMT

AW SHUCKS...that there Sarah Palin gal sure's a Joe SixPackin' Hockey Mom! And I - like most Americans (according to the post-debate polls) - feel like my IQ dropped about 35 points every time she avoided answering the question she was asked. At least Biden sounded like he'd actually thought about the ideas he was discussing. Thank God for him...he resurrected my brain cells after the Palin Effect.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

JDinHouston — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 08:32:18 GMT

If we are voting for a trained poodle, then Palin won. McCain has been making poor decisions for months now, and bringing Palin onto the scene when she is not ready for the global stage, let alone the debate stage, is just another example of McCain being too erratic to lead this country. Palin won over only those who already planned to vote for any Republican out of blind loyalty to that party. For the rest of us, she just sounded too rehearsed, evaded every question and substituted her own answers.

McCain/Palin = Country Worse.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

SeattleMoviegoer — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 08:49:22 GMT

so tired of the "Maverick" moniker that is so poorly worn by the GOPduo. heck, McCain is too old to be a maverick. even James Garner is too old to be a maverick. let's put the phrase to rest.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Harvybing — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 10:42:00 GMT

WILL THE FANNIE MAE CROOKS EVER GO TO JAIL ? THE BAIL OUT CRISIS WAS CAUSED BY A HANDFUL OF CORRUPT CONGRESSMEN AND A HANDFUL OF EQUALLY CORRUPT FANNIE MAE OFFICIALS WHO BOUGHT UP 7 TRILLION IN BAD DEBT IN ORDER TO PAD THE BOOKS AND

COLLECT HUGE SALARY BONUSES.

HERE ARE THREE VIDEOS THOSE CORRUPT FANNIE MAE OFFICIALS & AT LEAST FIVE CORRUPT GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS DON'T WANT THE

AMERICAN PEOPLE TO SEE:

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheMouthPeace

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2WKtp01yOw

One Of The Crooks Is Rumored To Be The Next Attorney General Under Obama. If That Happens, NONE of them will ever be brought to justice.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=67068

re: The Tale of Two Debates

metzlerd — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 10:42:10 GMT

I'm all for being respectful of the candidates, but a debate is a debate. When a question comes up, you are supposed to be able to talk intelligently ABOUT THE QUESTION. Instead Gov. Palin, brought her own set of questions, and answers.

When an electrician has to take a certification test, they don't bring their own questions about dogs, and answer those instead.

This was a test where the people get to grade the answers. I don't see how anyone can honestly give her a passing grade. She showed up, but refused to take the test put before her. She showed up, but not for the debate.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Caleb Murdock — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 10:46:25 GMT

I'm a liberal Democrat, and I thought that Palin's performance was better overall (her answers were sensible enough, and her folksy behavior was very appealing). However, I still see Biden as being more presidential. Perhaps that's because I'm a man and I just can't take a pretty woman seriously. I'll bet, though, that she won McCain some female votes last night.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

MEGuzman — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 11:43:59 GMT

If I was a dumb voter, I'd vote for McCain and Palin and so will millions of Americans who can be duped with folksy talk and stupid punch-lines. Wake up America, you will make a laughing stock of yourselves and your country in case McCain dies and Palin becomes president.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

avg joe25 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 11:51:44 GMT

I agree with metzlerd -- there is only one VP slot and hence we should not have different yard sticks for measuring Palin's and Biden's ability/credibility.

to me Palin looked out of sorts and never answered any question posed to her comprehensively and clearly. I never heard any policy details -- just vague answers about what she has done in Alaska -- I do not care how she runs her state -- I have more problems to handle myself.

a classic example was the way she handled the question on global warming was incredibly dumb -- wasn't that her forte? Biden on the other hand, answered all the questions asked of him clearly and still had time to throw some weighty punches at McCain.

to me, Palin was a clear loser last night...

re: The Tale of Two Debates

GregHere — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:09:54 GMT

.........................Palin did not consider it a debate, it was just a television opportunity to do political attacks. She did not want to stick with the format and give answers to the questions given her without spinning them out of shape. She only wanted to deal with Gwen and Biden on her terms so was it really a debate??

re: The Tale of Two Debates

suzvoter47 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:10:44 GMT

This debate was about the VP of the USA, Palin did well regarding style and character. Yes she still has that wow factor. However, when it comes to facts she came across as having memorized certain one liners and used much of her previous stumping lines. I did not hear new changes. I did see attack attack.

Howver for me when she stated that the role of the VP should be granted more power than it already has as established by our forefathers....I got chills, that pushed the line inot dangerous Cheney like territory. Perhaps she needs more power, as she is accustomed to it and would be second seat not in charge. Additonally, her lack of knowledhe on foreign affairs and inabilty to counter act Bidens questions other than changing the subject, not answering, or using some "folksy" remark did not sit well, perhaps it speaks to the base but not people that the campaign wants to sway.

However at the end when she went on about being a mom of 5 having a special needs child etc... and Biden than pointed out his own life experiences as being single parent due to his first wifes and daughters death showed me that often women use reverse sexism and I believe that Palin did so at that time.

She did well however by no means did she show thinking people that she is up for the postion of VP

re: The Tale of Two Debates

n83nbu — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:13:12 GMT

PALIN SUCCEEDED IN SUCCINCTLY UNDERLINING THE BASIC REPUBLICAN PHILOSOPHY: reward the rich and corporations with tax breaks (e.g. the oil companies), continue a non-ending war (good for armament makers), deny average Americans a doable health-care system (a 5000 dollar tax deduction - who has 5000 dollars to begin with??), don’t regulate polluters because climate-change is not man made, and don’t talk with our enemies, because doing so would be naive (even though our allies have advised us to do exactly that for almost eight years!). The democratic position: the opposite of the above. We have the choice.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

prchic — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:15:15 GMT

What is up with all her cutesie smiles and winks? This is NOT a beauty pagent!

She didn't bomb last night, that's true BUT she gave no clear explanation of Mccains policies, other than trying to explain his answer to health care reform. Which Joe came back and shot that down to the ridiculous policy it is. That was my favorite part. She kept changing the topic with her answers and kept repeating and repeating her talking points.

She is not ready to lead. Palin and simple!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

OnionGum — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:17:46 GMT

I think both missed opportunities, but Biden won on factual knowledge, hands down. Biden should have hammered her a history lesson when she didn't want to talk about the last 8 years - if Palin is willing to forgive the Bush administration, then what about all of the people who were hurt over the last 8? Want to give them a clean slate, too - pay off all of their debts? That's what you're suggesting if you ignore history - even "friends of Israel" McCain/Palin would admit that the Holocaust happened. Want to forget about that, too?

As far as Palin's missed op, she should have read off all of the proposed crap included in the bailout bill and asked Biden point blank why things that have NOTHING TO DO with the financial crisis are included in there.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Tony2001 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:34:38 GMT

The McCain campaign was determined not to let simple minded Sarah wing it, to the point where she would even ignore Ifill and Biden if it was necessary. They gave her a script and to her credit she stayed with it. However to any objective observer it was painfully clear that she was just an inch deep on the issues, any follow up questions would have sunk her but republicans are good at setting the stage and they had made sure there would be no follow up questions to get deep on issues. She came across as very scripted, did not sound presidential and her folksiness seemed contrived and forced, not natural. She was a made for debate production as in made for tv movies, designed to appeal to a certain segment of the population. Republicans were on pins and needles, wondering if she would pull it off and they all gave a big sigh of relief that she pulled it off, and to them that was a victory. Forget whether she is qualified or not for the presidency, that is not relevant at all in this scenario, what is relevant is that she earned an oscar for pulling of the act and decieved Joe six pack.

And that's what bothers me about republicans, all they look for is victory without taking the big picture into consideration. Every sane person in America knows she is not qualified to be a heartbeat away but republicans would do anything to get a victory and totally ignore her incompetence.

That's exactly what they did with Bush, stealing the election for Dubya in 00 and swift boating Kerry in 04 and now they are all running away from him after he has stunk up the place, forgetting that it was them that backed him all the way to victory despite his blundering incompetence that was plain for everyone to see. There again they passed him off as someone you would want to have a beer with. The job of president of the United States and leader of the world is just too important to be won by who has the sleight of hand. Supreme competency is needed for that position and McCain/Palin have just not shown that competence. Any republican that claims to put country first must know this already and the responsible thing for them to do is vote Obama/Biden. That is something that democrats will do for the right republican candidate, which is why Reagan was able to win all 50 states in one of his elections. Democrats always put country first but republicans have always shown the party first, victory at all costs mentality. A mentality totally exemplified by Mr. country first McCain's selection of simple minded Sarah for the VP slot.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

lingram — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:35:56 GMT

Caleb

I am a woman, I did not take Governor Palin seriously. She didn't answer the questions asked.

She rambled on about global warming. I don't care how many children she has or how cute she is, she is not vice presidential materia. She said she was governor of the biggest state-Well by golley-it has the smallest population. I found her By Golley folksy twangy voice quite annoying. I just wanted her to get to the point-any point-on any subject-she could not do that even with notes to look at. No Caleb, she did not get this woman's vote. And I did vote for Hillary by the way, not because she was a woman either, but because I felt she would be the best candidate. I do support Obama because he and Hillary have basically the same platform. So please don't say women will vote for Ms Moose just because she is a woman.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

skhilliard — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:40:58 GMT

Sure Biden appeared to have more answers - of course most of them were lies....

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Tony2001 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:44:30 GMT

The Sarah Palin Debate flowchart - very funny

<img>http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo113/amk123amk/PalinFlowchart.jpg</img>

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Tony2001 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:48:12 GMT

The Sarah Palin Debate flowchart - very funny

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo113/amk123amk/PalinFlowchart.jpg

re: The Tale of Two Debates

flamingo123 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:52:17 GMT

What Sen. Biden did last night was not a debate but a PR for Sen. Obama.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

fastaire — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:56:30 GMT

The problem with Romano is that he could easily have written his piece a week ago, submitted it and then gone on vacation. No matter how successful Palin was or would have been his opinion would not have been any different than the one we had to try to stomach reading here. Which makes me think "What a complete waste of time reading tripe like this." Romano is nothing more than another Obama campaign surrogate. What a wasted life.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Mwalimu — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:00:32 GMT

I know that pundits like to frame the debate between Sarah Palin and Joe Biden as Main Street confronting the Washington elite, except according to report from both Newsweek and Steve Lopez of the Los Angeles Times, Wasilla doesn’t have a main street. Instead of the cutsey little mom and pop stores of a Normal Rockwell painting, Wasilla’s “downtown” is a series of strip malls with big box stores, like WalMart - whose pricing policies drive small store woners out of business. As a recent article in the Wall Street Journal puts it, most main streets in many small towns are boarded up - thanks largely to the agricultural policies of the Bush-McCain administration, and politicians like Sarah Palin are really loving small towns to death.

This is only a series of dubious claims made by Sarah Palin in the v.p. standoff. Palin was elected mayor of Wasilla because she voted to keep Wasilla’s three bars open until 5 AM. When Wasilla’s police chief objected because it would create more DUI’s, Palin fired him, according to a recent article on Newsweek.com by Michael Isikoff. According to a press release in the Los Angeles Times, one way that Wasilla cut down on expenses was charging rape victims for rape kits and forensic exams. It took a law by the Alaska state legislature to end this barbaric practice. According to an article on the Huffington Post by Wasilla’s sheriff Jacob Alperin, mayor Palin also decreased funding for a children’s shelter and squandering money for aq Mayormobile and a rarely-used Airport. As governor Palin fired Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan because he tried to go to Washington to obtain more funds to combat sexual assault, according to an article on abc new by Rhonda Schwartz and Justin Rood. Since Alaska has the highest per capita rate of sexual assault in the country, including sexual assaults on minors, Monegan felt this problem deserved immediate action. Palin rewarded his initiative by firing him. Palin’s record sounds more like a Dick Cheney than a maverick reformer. Although Palin did form a climate sub-cabinet - that cabinet has done nothing to combat global warming.

Although Palin is vehemently anti-tax, as Biden pointed out, Palin imposes a heavy windfall profit tax on oil companies. In fact oil companies provide Alaska with about 86% of its revenue, according to a Time.CNN article by Michael Kinsley. We in the lower 48 subsidize that tax. I might also point out that Palin apparently has never heard of Adam Smith. Widely regarded as the founder of capitalism, Smith not only felt it was patriotic to pay taxes, but that the wealthy should pay more taxes than the poor. He even favored luxury taxes. Palin spent nearly a minute outlining educational proposals including providing for children with ‘special needs.” She wants the military to intervene wherever freedom is threatened. Yet she seems to be totally unaware that you cannot run public schools or rescue Darfur without taxes. (Even teachers cannot afford to work for free - as Sarah Palin seems to believe.)

Palin’s claims to energy independence are equally fraudulent. According to an article by Mark Hosenball on Newsweek.com, construction on Palin’s famous $ 40 billion pipeline has not begun The project will be delayed for years by lawsuits brought about by the First Nations, Indian tribes in Canada. Furthermore, according to an article by Paul Roberts in National Geographic (June, 2008) oil production in Alaska is declining, and according to the Lowndowner, by Jim Hightower, it will take years for the oil from the ANWAR reserve to reach America and even thin it will only provide about a year and a half of our oil needs. Biden was correct in pointing out that it will take years for off-shore to be developed and to enter the market. There is currently a serious shortage of drilling rigs and refinery capacity that will take years to remedy.

According to Matt Simmons, a Houston oil investment banker, “The world has zillions of little fields, But the problem is that you need a zillion oil rigs to get them all.” Interestingly enough Simmons has recently endorsed Obama for president.

Palin not only lies to the public about energy, but she also lies about being a reformer. According to Michael Kinsley, Alaska gets $ 13,950 per resident in federal funds. According to an article by Garance Burke (AP) Palin is pushing for a $ 600,000,000 bridge across the Knik Arm, partially because the son-in-law of Alaska Congressman Don Young, has property interests along the proposed route. Although Palin loves to attack Barack Obama on earmarks, according to an AP article by Sara Kugler, Obama has not asked for any earmarks this year. Last year he asked for $ 311 million in earmarks, about $ 25 per each resident in Illinois. This year Palin asked for $ 198 million, about $ 295 per every Alaskan resident. Equally dubious is Palin’s claim that McCain’s campaign is free of greedy CEO’s. The RNC Victory Committee is chaired by Carly Fiorina who got a $ 45 million parachute after she was fired for mismanaging Hewlitt-Packard. Other lobbyists and CEO’s include Rick Davis, who is heavily involved in Freddie Mac, Phil Gramm, whose deregulation created the current meltdown; Randy Scheuneman, who not only lobbies for Georgia, but also pushed the war in Iraq, and Charlie Black, who has lobbied for a number of ruthless dictators, Blackwater, which has robbed the government of billions of dollars and Ahmed Chalabi, whose lies got us into Iraq. Either Palin does not know who is involved on Bush’s campaign, or she’s lying.

Much more troubling is Palin’s desire to “win” in Iraq. Biden and Obama are quite right when they say that the government of Iraq itself is proposing a time table for withdrawal, but Palin considers this a “white flag.” In what way? Doesn’t the Iraqi government have the right to ask us to leave? Furtermore, according to a recent press release General David McKiernen in Afghanistan has requested additional troops ASAP. Palin also shows her ignorance when she links Iraq with Al Qaeda. There were no al Qaeda in Iraq before the invasion. And even before the Surge, al Qaeda accounted only for a minority of terrorist acts there. McCain’s desire to win a war to avenge the so-called defeat of Vietnam will condemn this country to endless warfare - and will ultimately cause our country’s demise./

Even more disturbing is Sarah Palin’s idiotic belief that carbon emissions do not cause global warming. McCain’s entire energy policy consists of “drill baby drill” and inevitable that will leade to “burn baby burn.” Palin also can’t understand that global warming increases extreme weather patters. As a result of global warming we are facing more droughts, more floods, more tornadoes - and more hurricanes. Hurricane Dwight and Gustav were only preview of what will come in the future. It’s even more ironic that McCain and Palin want to do a lot of drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, the very place where hurricanes are more likely to occur. Sarah Palin should have noticed what Hurricane Ike did to the oil industry. A category 4 o 5 hurricane will be much worse. Palin has not thought about what will happen if the polar ice cap disappears, or what will happen if the perma frost of Siberia melts releasing billions of tons of greenhouse gases. We are approaching an environment apocalypse - and Palin just doesn’t get it..

In short, Palin may have charmed the gullible with her so-called “folksy” charm - but she is as much a danger to this country as al Qaeda, and certainly will cause much more damage. She has no business any where near the White House.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

olderwiser — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:01:23 GMT

She's cute, but she's trying to plow a hundred acres with a teaspoon. She wins the race for alternate mother, but not alternate president. You have to like her, but you would never put her in such a brutal place as the second highest office of the nation. Give her some years down below learning the real ropes and she might get up to Hillary class as a candidate and have a chance.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

knowthefacts — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:06:39 GMT

YOU ARE RIGHT, IT WAS A TALE OF TWO DEBATES, THERE WAS ONE WHO KNOWS THE ISSUES AND ONE WHO DOESN'T. SARAH PALIN, SHE REALLY NEEDS TO GO BACK TO ALASKA, THIS WOMAN IS DUMB, PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

SHE REFUSED TO ANSWER QUESTION, CHANGE THE SUBJECT AND BECAME A PARROT FOR THE McSHAME CAMPAIGN.

THIS WOMAN DON'T KNOW ANYTHING WORTH WHILE, TRYING THAT BS LINE "HOCKEY MOM AND JOE 6-PACK" CRAP.

PLEASE!

OBAMA/BIDEN 08!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Barbie123 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:14:58 GMT

And was she winking at me or my husband?

The down home mom, does nothing for me.......

re: The Tale of Two Debates

everyman_intell — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:30:33 GMT

I am utterly ASHAMED to be affiliated with the republican party!! How is it that we have become so desperate and destitute that we can consider it a victory for our Vice Presidential candidate simply because "she didn't embarrass herself"!!! As much as I hate to admit it, Senator Biden is CLEARLY the stronger of the two VP candidates. While I may disagree with his beliefs, strategies, and stances on the vast majority of issues, throwing all biases aside, he was excellent during last nights debate. Lets throw eloquence, likability, charisma, relatability, out the window and weigh in on the ISSUES. Gov Palin lack substance in all of her answers, that is, the ones that she actually answered. It was so blatantly obvious that our beloved GOP had scripted a structured manuscript for which Gov Palin was to abide by. I would have preferred to hear Gov Palin actually answer questions during this debate and prove herself as a viable VP choice worthy of a VP selection, rather than reading from strategic laden Q-cards. As an educated AMERICAN, not only is it my patriotic duty, but my obligation to this great nation to chose who I feel will best lead this nation into a direction of hope, opportunity, prosperity, and security. Judging by last nights performance, my beloved party displayed that with their selection of our VP candidate, Gov. Palin, that we're not the party for the job.......

re: The Tale of Two Debates

mjno — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:34:03 GMT

She did an outstanding job. Her first national debate, Biden's millionth. She is the first HONEST politician in my lifetime. Sure, she could have lied but then that is NOT Governor Palin.

Democrats for McCain

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:48:44 GMT

A joke. She's almost as pathetic as the people who want to vote for her.

America.......where not answering the questions is the solution.

If she were a car, she'd be a Desoto.

If she were a bird, she'd be a loon.

If she were intelligent, she'd make on valid point.

If it weren't for her TNA, she wouldn't even be here.

She' s as dumb as a bag of hammers and comes off

about as warm as a December night in International Falls.

Joe beat her like a red headed stepchild.

She blocked every punch with her face and

I STILL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT SHE STANDS FOR EXCEPT

MEDIOCRITY, ANIMAL CRUELTY, CRONYISM AND POLITICAL

GRANDSTANDING WITHOUT ANY SUBSTANTIAL CREDENTIALS.

Govenor of a glacier.......................give us a break, please.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

sparky716 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:54:11 GMT

could she not understand the qustions or could she not answer them?

re: The Tale of Two Debates

P.J. in Michigan — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:55:14 GMT

Joe Biden came off last night as what he is: a serious, experienced, substantive, and compassionate grown up who understands the everyday realities of working families and complexities of foreign policy and national security. Sarah Palin, in contrast, managed not to set her hair on fire or snort chocolate milk out her nose. Her debate performance was fine ... for someone running for junior class president.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:57:28 GMT

She coulda been a conteneder......................

If she knew what the f_ck she was talking about, Doncha know?

You betcha' she'd grab a cold Liennenkugel's wit ya and tell some tall tales

about gutting some animal she shot from a helicopter.

"I'm darn tootin' mad at the establishment, and I'm not from Washington," meaning

"I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but jeez, doesn't my hair look good and

doncha know that Jonh McCain's a Maverick and I'm a hockey mom with lipstick."

Watching her is like dying a slow death, but unfortuantely death is the more

pallatable alternative to her line of bullsh_t and punchlines drilled in with rote

memorization and a total lack of any sustainable knowledge.

Palin is failin'..............................................she's a total trainwreck......with lipstick.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:58:16 GMT

I think the way Washington operates WILL change drastically when McCain and Palin get in the White House. They both are brave enough to confront corrupt politicians. They will go after them and make sure those politicians who are in Washington for personal gain will be exposed and disgraced. Politicians are lining their pockets with hard working citizens' tax dollars. Palin and McCain have exposed these crooks before and will fearlessly clean up Washington together!! Politicians will be forced to work for the good of the people and the country, not for themselves.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:03:03 GMT

The last thing we need in the White House is a person who can pull the wool over our eyes with rhetoric. We need someone who hasn't made any back room deals and can confront the crooks and clean house. Biden and Obama are so obligated to their peers that their hands are tied. Palin doesn't have life long friends in Washington and can confront those that are not there to serve the nation.

McCain won't tollerate "pork". At last the citizens have a chance to see Washington cleaned up.

It's like a breath of fresh air.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Loden Green — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:06:41 GMT

Palin might be more effective if she didn't talk like the characters in the movie "Fargo." (Remember BIll Macy's "Ya darn tootin'"?) Last night she appeared prepped and programmed but not necessarily informed about crucial strategic and policy issues. I don't think she convinced many independent voters to go with Mccain/Palin. And that a problem, because MCain is running behind in the polls.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

miatamama — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:07:42 GMT

My husband and I both noticed there seemed to be two separate debates going on, as well. In the end, it was clear to us that Biden had won the political debate and Palin was victorious in her debate....the bumper sticker debate.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:09:30 GMT

The Mavericks are coming to Washington. They are ready to expose corruption and clean it out. The reason our national debt is so high is because of all the pork that gets thrown into a bill just before it is voted on. McCain will expose it. Palin has cleaned up wasteful spending in her city and state. The citizens will finally have someone to look out for them!!

Vote for the YOU on Nov. Vote for the ones that will look out for you.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:10:36 GMT

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

McPain won't tolerate pork!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROTMFFLMMFAO!!!!

His middle name might as well be Hormel.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

aeroplane — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:14:17 GMT

Sarah did great. Biden lied several times that I caught and could refute first hand. To see articles saying she didn't win basically because she's not a Democrat cracks me up. She's not a Democrat! She doesn't need to slam W Bush. That's what Democrat journalists want. She killed it last night, and clearly spanked Biden.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:15:44 GMT

Okay, 1easylay, Proof!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:17:42 GMT

If brains were money, Republican's would need to take out a loan to buy a paper.

Or a few shares of WaMu.

Tools!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All of you, tools.

Fooled and seduced by a snake in the guise of a houswife.

Are your intillects so small that a few buzzwords and catchphrases really

make you comfortable with this goober as second in command to the big show???

The world in which your kids lives could be at stake?

You really want McPain at the healm facing down Iran, N. Korea, Putin

and the list goes on??????????????????????????

Damn, Europe is right. American's are stupid and know more about American Idol

than they do about the rest of the world.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

gsgram — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:17:44 GMT

First of all, I have to say I do not hate Sarah Palin. I simply think her run for vp is premature. She is an excellent speech giver, but her performance last night reminds me of a fellow who in an oral exam in college answered the question with, "I can't tell you much about that, but I do know a lot about this" and proceeded to talk about the topic of his choice. She may be ready for the big stage in the future but not now. I can imagine her meeting with Putin and saying "you betcha" wink, wink.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

ChuckGoodman — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:17:48 GMT

An Absolutely great job was accomplished by Gov. Palin. Joe Biden failed and was baffled with her truths about him. Governor, we thank you for your honesty. Joe Biden is a scary choice to be advising Obama-nation let alone blundering his way around as President with foreign leaders should something happen to Obama-nation.

Gov. Palin, we would rather have you as President than Obama-nation or Biden should something happen to Senator McCain. You have proved your ready Governor.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:18:34 GMT

Biden did give 10 actual false statement and at least 6 statements that COULD be argued.

He is your typical politician. He has had 36 years of practice in the skill.

Palin has had 5 weeks in the national political field. She didn't know how to lie between her teeth.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

richardcheese — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:18:39 GMT

McCain and Palin aren't for pork? Get your facts straight and check her record in Alaska and his aircraft carrier. McCain and Palin will confront corrupt politicians? Who, themselves? We don't need another arrogant, right-wing neocon cowboy looking to make some money for him/herself. Obama and Biden are both much more intelligent, informed and stable than either McCain or Palin. How can anyone endorse these 2 idiots? Being a POW was his one noble attribute, otherwise he's another spoiled brat who had his powerful father (and grandfather) save his sorry ass from going down in flames like he deserved to (just like Bush). Wake up people. Look at the quagmire the Republicans have turned our country into. Look how the world perceives us now, thanks to Republicans. Palin is not qualified to be an elemtary school teacher, let alone VP. She's a hot cheerleader, at best. McCain doesn't even know where Spain is, or that they're our ally. You think Obama and Biden will raise taxes, and that'll doom us? How do you propose paying for the war, which I'm sure all Republicans endorse, regardless of how long it costs us? What, just raise the deficit? Come on.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:19:39 GMT

Proof?

I don't have all day. If you don't know you have access to 9, not 7 homes and keep leaving your

car keys in the freezer, you're pulling in some pork.

Don't make me embarass you guy's anymore.

Palin did enough of that last night.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

richardcheese — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:21:26 GMT

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:22:20 GMT

Some people are SO intolerant of the various accents that we have in the various areas of our country. A person's accent doesn't mean that they lack knowledge. If Palin would change her accent to a British accent like Madona did, she would be called a fake. Palin is herself, she talks like the people in Alaska do. There was a lot of intolerance with Bush's accent. So are some of you saying that we ALL need to talk like a Northeasterner to sound intelligent?

re: The Tale of Two Debates

rlowe — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:23:20 GMT

As someone in the 'heartland', from a town much smaller than Wasilla, AK, I found Palin's folksy attitude condescending. It was clear that she was simply repeating talking points she had been force fed. Whether they were on question or not. Biden simply showed more intelligence and knowledge. He showed that he really was more in touch with my concerns than Palin. He voiced them, instead of simply referring to the fact that they exist and throwing in a "you betcha" in a poor attempt to relate.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:23:24 GMT

An old man who already fighting early onset dementia and a right wing

nut job with the IQ of a fern and the personality of a houseplant

running the country sounds like a suicide mission.

What is she gonna do?

Show Putin her *** cause she obviously can't focus and answer a question.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:24:46 GMT

Repubs don't raise taxes, they just "redistribute" wealth.

To their friends.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:28:00 GMT

If Palin would change her accent to a British accent like Madona did, she would be called a fake. Palin is herself, she talks like the people in Alaska do. There was a lot of intolerance with Bush's accent. So are some of you saying that we ALL need to talk like a Northeasterner to sound intelligent?

This is the problem with dumb people.

We east coast elitists love the accent.

It's the catchphrases, and I'm salt of the earth and real.

Like I'm dumb cause I live in a major city near the coast?

And you're better cause your small town?

You just have a longer drive to the airport.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

careerdaytrader — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:32:44 GMT

Biden got his A$$ Kicked by Sarah! The polls after the debate showed 86% said Sarah won. It was HILARIOUS!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

richardcheese — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:34:21 GMT

Palin doesn't know how to lie? If you believe that, you're a fool. Biden was baffled by Palin's truths about him? What planet are you people living on? He was baffled by how clueless and incompetent she was/is. Why would you want someone like her anywhere near the White House? And he's 72!! Good God you people amaze me.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:36:12 GMT

Biden seemed lose all of the color in his face toward the end of the debate. Possibly the long time on his feet was making him feel ill.

He does suffer from aneurysms and does seem to be having dementia moments.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

richardcheese — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:37:06 GMT

Biden lost? Really. No poll said she won. Go sterilize yourself, please.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:38:19 GMT

Some people JUST can't accept the fact that a WOMAN can out do a man. Our nation DOES have more advanced treatment of women than the Mideast, but there are still some stubborn souls that just don't think that women can compete and win over men.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:39:25 GMT

Biden got his A$$ Kicked by Sarah! The polls after the debate showed 86% said Sarah won. It was HILARIOUS!

Where was this, FantasyWorld, AKA Fox News???????????

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:40:25 GMT

This is like priceless humor.

Palin wins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OMFG. I laughed so hard I pee'd a little.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:40:48 GMT

Biden seems like a nice guy.....why in the world would he want to be associated with a crook like Obama?

Obama has exceeded all other politicians in Washington by lining his pockets with tax payer money and by the number of crooks for friends.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:41:56 GMT

Sarah Palin should turn in her ovaries.

I saw a scared, frightened and very vulnerable little animal lashing out

with what precious few cerebral resources she had, yet she still..........

FAILED.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

SJ71 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:42:26 GMT

richardcheese: Do you have anything intelligent to say, or are you simply going to accuse people who think differently than you of being fools? Sarah Palin may not be as adept at names, dates, and events as Biden is. And why would she? Biden has been a Washington insider for over 30 years. But there is no doubt that she came across as intelligent, thoughtful, and most importantly... real!!! And she made a good point about how average folks in this country feel. Many are sick and tired of the partisanship and finger-pointing. Biden's main response last night on economic policy was "the failed Bush policies of the past 8 years." Well what about the failed Carter policies of the late 70's? Because that is where an Obama/Biden ticket would take us.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

dsmb2007 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:43:29 GMT

I expected to hear a Vice President, and Palin was no Vice President. She did not meet my expectations of the next Vice President. She did however exceed my expectations of a hockey mom though, which appears to be what everyone else was expecting. I guess I'm holding our next leaders by a higher standard than others. I proudly voted for GWB the last 2 elections but I won't vote for McCain/Palin. McCain has proven himself to be manipulative, conniving, and opportunistic. His VP choice is the gimmick of all gimmicks. The only credit I'll give him is that this gimmick has seemed to work with most of the conservative base, which indeed frightens me. I honestly can't believe people are still selling this ticket with a straight face. Hopefully I'll have a better option in 4 years.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:45:26 GMT

I wish I was man so I could see some redeeming quality in her.

Cause frankly, I don't think she's that hot and other than her looks..............

Ain't much left, sweetie.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

SJ71 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:46:08 GMT

1easylay: You are truly pathetic! Sarah Palin should turn in her ovaries??? Good to know that you liberals who claim to be so progressive are actually rabid sexists.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:47:07 GMT

The empty can rattles the most.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:48:29 GMT

Let me guress, 1easylay is a male pig chauvinisht, I have one thing to say, 1easylay, go back to the Stone Ages or to the Mideast.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

SJ71 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:49:27 GMT

1easylay: You seem to have nothing intelligent to offer on this blog, except for a revealing user name. No wonder your thoughts are so warped!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

rightofcenter — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:49:32 GMT

One of the questions that need to be asked is what will the Dems do now that they can't run against Palin?

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:50:13 GMT

You know the difference between a female liberal and a female republican?

The right to choose.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:50:42 GMT

Far left liberals, like 1easylay, are so fake. They say they are progressives, but they are still living in the Stone Age.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:52:15 GMT

If she was qualified and not a threat to every thing I hold true and dear,

I'd love to support a fellow lady and give all my support and praise.

But, she is NO lady and deserves no praise.

She's not doing us any favors. And yes, I am woman and I will

roar.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

SJ71 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:52:17 GMT

izme: No, it would seem that 1easylay is a liberal female who hates successful, family-oriented, conservative women. It's unbelievable how sexist she is.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:53:19 GMT

I guess the far left will need SNL to work Palin over again. She is a tough lady and all the crap they dish out doesn't affect her. Hollywood and far left liberals are very demeaning to women. They think that women are just sex objects. They cannot accept the fact that women are SMART.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:53:23 GMT

My username is a joke, my dear.

I like to pretend I'm a man sometimes.

This way I have an excuse for screwing up.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

SJ71 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:55:03 GMT

1easylay: Okay, now we're getting somewhere. Instead of spewing hate about Palin, why don't you explain to all of us why you feel so threatened by her. What exactly do you think she would do to all the things you hold so true and dear? Maybe then we can have an intelligent debate.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

SJ71 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:55:57 GMT

1easylay: Gotcha... Clever!

Read my previous post. I want to know why you feel so threatended by Palin.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:56:36 GMT

I just hope that when the Dems ONCE AGAIN salvage the devestation

brought on by the Republinists, you don't have such a short memory.

Like John McCain. The old fart you want to have controlling your future.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:56:45 GMT

I could care less who 1easylay or what 1easylay is.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:57:57 GMT

They think that women are just sex objects. They cannot accept the fact that women are SMART.

No, we don't accept that SHE'S smart.............cause she's not.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:58:55 GMT

I could care less who 1easylay or what 1easylay is.

You sound like your idol, Sarah FAILIN'

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:59:20 GMT

1easylay is proof of the mentality of the Dems.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

richardcheese — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:00:41 GMT

SJ71: No, I have many close friends who think very differently then me, and they are definitely not fools. I just don't understand the Republican tendency to always vote Republican, regardless of the facts. And the facts to me are that Republicans have lied to us. Repeatedly. And this ticket obviously continues that sad, evil tradition. Yes Palin is real. A real right-wing neocon. No I did not expect her to do as well as she did. That doesn't change the fact that I am exasperated by how people are swallowing this idea that because she's your average Joe, she should be in some authoirtarian position in Washington. I want the smartest person I can get in the White House, period. And neither McCain, and especially not Palin, fit the bill. You want me to quit bringing up the last 8 years? Show me where McCain's policies differ from Bush's. Show me.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:00:44 GMT

Read my previous post. I want to know why you feel so threatended by Palin.

Where do I begin? Even the Lord rested on the seventh day.

I just don't trust her. I have relatives in Alaska and even THEY don't trust her.

But, they love those checks every year!!!!!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

time of my life — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:01:14 GMT

Biden won this debate.Palin looked uniformed and fluster. She couldn't even get the name of teh Commanding officer right after Biden already said it. Biden layed into her with facts about Mcains voting record he handed it to hr after he as well as everyone else got tired of her calling him a Mavrick(she said about 30 times). Biden answered the questions that were presnted to him, Palin got lost and never really answered any of the questions(go back and check out the question about the achiles heel ) even the moderatore was confused. To top it all of Biden lokked into teh camera and talked about his family and his parnets his upbringng ... he looked like he cared and made himselve an oderinary guy trying to do an extrondary job.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

raddave — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:02:34 GMT

careerdaytrader, the only ass about the debate was Sarah Palin not falling on hers. The 86% you refer to is the percentage of people who though Palin did better than expected, NOT the percentage of who thought she won the debate. 51% actually though Biden won the debate. Good attempt to spin the facts though.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Catbuns1978 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:02:59 GMT

I watched this debate, and true to form. Out came Chatty Patty from the republican's. I was waiting to see Dick Cheney rush in a pull the cord from her back. First and foemost, we can not move forward until we understand the past. A point clearly lacking in the Mc Cain- Palin admin. They offered no direction, no true leadership. If you can't back your running mate, how are you going to get your point across in Congress, the House? Sarah Palin scares the hell out of me. The fact that people keep saying she's "folksy". Complete BS. How can she when, as she puts it " In Alaska, we work our problems out". Yes, it's easy to do when you only have an isolated state to deal with, not an entire nation. Which we don't get a check when our state does well.

she does not represent women, at least not the one's I know. We work hard everyday to provide for our family's, it's not just a given. My husband doesn't work for a oil company. She doesn't know what middle class is because she never has been. If this is what people are looking for, then someone help us. Vote McCain-Palin in November, just remember to flush, because that is where this country is going. I'm voting in November for the Obama-Biden ticket, because I've never seen a honest politican, I've voting to turn this country around. Hoping that with this team we can have a more lucartive future.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

rckymtnmoose — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:04:37 GMT

Gov. Palin's comments on climate change make perfect sense, too many times the argument on human impacts on the environment devolves into "global warming" versus the latest anecdotal evidence against global warming. She is right on this, stop worrying about potential climate change predicated on models that cannot accurately determine where a huricane will hit and focus on lessening our obvious impact on the environment.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:05:17 GMT

Sarah "Sailin' high and John Mc"Gaining" ground are well on their way to the White House.

Joe "Slidin" down the hill and Barack "Odrama" are being exposed for their corrupt links.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Lucy54 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:05:45 GMT

This was supposed to be a debate. Not a rehash of memorized sound bites and party talking points. Palin is clearly in over her head and before this election is over I vote to ban the word "maverick" from the English language. It's highly unfortunate that Ifill wasn't able to follow-up with Palin - or better, interrupt her - when she refused to answer the questions or rambled off on another energy spin.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Distressed American — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:06:24 GMT

Sarah "choice for my daughter but none for your's" Palin is a joke.

She would be a nightmare if she ever became prez. Frighteningly, she is running with a guy that by all rights could fall out at any time. Which just makes her even more dangerous.

Her performance in last night's debat only reinforced my impression that she is utterly unqualified for the job.

www.seedsofdoubt.com

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Tony2001 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:07:18 GMT

Sarah Palin is not qualified to be VP or president, end of story. Any rational person can see that she knows nothing about national and international issues, even her so called expertise in energy is laughable as it can be summed up in three words, "drill baby drill." Her debate flowchart below says it all.

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo113/amk123amk/PalinFlowchart.jpg

re: The Tale of Two Debates

SJ71 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:08:12 GMT

1easylay: You need to check your facts and educate yourself on how the mortgage industry functions. The current devastation in the economy is largely due to Democrats. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (two government sponsored enterprises) are at the heart of the mortgage mess. Why? Because they got to big, and they engaged in very risky behavior. Why? Because the Democrats, led by Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and The Congressional Black Caucus (I was tempted to say Communists there) pushed Fannie and Freddie to relax lending standards so that more minorities and lower income families could buy homes. In the end, all they were doing was backing loans to families who couldn't afford the homes they bought. And yes, predatory lending has a lot to do with this as well. But let's not forget that the Democrats were vehemently defending Fannie and Freddie 3 years ago, and declaring them as financially sound. It was the Bush Adminstration, along with Senator Shelby (R-Alabama), who tried to warn Congress about the systemic risk that Fannie and Freddie posed to the greater economy... And by the way, guess who receives the 2nd highest campaign contributions from the failed Fannie Mae? Barack Obama!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:10:01 GMT

Would you rather have a President that has a reputation of exposing corrupt politicians (McCain)or a President that IS a corrupt politician (Obama)?

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:11:39 GMT

Together, McCain and Palin are like Ammonia and Bleach.

A dangerous combination.

Senility and Arrogance.

A deadly combination.

The economy will rebound. With a nuclear Pakistan, China, Iran, N. Korea and

soon, if not already, Saudi Arabia I'd much rather have someone who's actually

knows what the hell they are doing and has the ability and RESPECT, which McCain

and Palin don't have, to LEAD through example and strength rather than buzz words

and short skirts.

You really think the rest of the world respects her more than Barrack or Joe????????

Really???????????????????????????

C'mon...............................

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:13:17 GMT

QUIT PICKING ON ME!!!

Stop rehashing the past. John and I are moving forward now. There's no time

to play the blame game now. We're mavericks and we're gonna take back

washington......................................

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:14:43 GMT

Does she own a pair of slacks?????

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:16:09 GMT

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html

Factcheck.org tells the facts that were distorted during the debate.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Fasteddy33 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:16:18 GMT

She was terrible....completely unqualified.

The cute, folksy language can't cover that she knows absolutely nothing. It was embarrassing.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Saschi — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:17:19 GMT

My father is a Viet Nam Veteran and I seriously considered voting for McCain until he picked Palin as his running mate. There were so many qualified women that he could have chosen but his choice of Palin showed McCain's lack of good judgment and wanting to win the Presidency at any cost -- even at the cost of the Country's future.

As a woman in her late 50's I also truly resent all of Palin's winking at the camera - she belittles all that women have worked and strived for over the last 100 years. I would much prefer she get a grasp on the English Language and relevant issues. I guess I just don't find her "cute" but I do think she is darned "scary".

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:18:18 GMT

McCain leading the charge for deregulation caused this mess. Period.

Now, he's a reformer.........................or is that Transformer. He really liked

the movie with the big robot car things.

Clinton had a part, yes. But Bush declared the "Ownership Society" and let it

escalate to where it is now..................................

While him and Cheney and all the other Repugs lined theri pockets with billions.

They sent pallets of cash to Iraq. Fuc_ng wood pallets stacked with $50.00 bills.

Billions..........................................................gone. Pooooooof.

I just hpe the grunts got most of it. They deserve it.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

vstillwell — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:18:53 GMT

1easylay you're a moron. Check your facts. I'll help you out here. They're wrong, wrong again, and really wrong. I'm LMAO at your stupid post.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

SJ71 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:19:42 GMT

richardcheese: Thanks for your thoughtful response... First of all, I find it intersting that you accuse Republicans of always voting Republican no matter what. Are you telling me that liberal Democrats don't do the same thing? Both extremes in this country are entrenched in their own partisanship, so I don't think it's fair to only accuse one side of that behaviour. I'm actually Libertarian, but in the past I have sided more with Republicans due to my fiscal conversative positions. But to be honest, I don't know who to trust anymore. They are all big spenders now, looking to expand government and exert more control over the economy. Perhaps we need to do away with the two party system and have more options on election day... By the way, I voted for Tim Caine in the gubanatorial election here in VA. That's right, a Democrat!

And for all of you Obama fans... if you honestly think he's going to advance your leftist, practically communist political policies, you're going to be in for a huge disappointment. Both parties are controlled by corporate interests. And he's smart enough to know that he can't govern from the left. Bill Clinton tried to do that in his first 2 years, and then his party was thrown out of Congress in the mid-term elections of 1994.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Catbuns1978 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:20:20 GMT

Sj71- either your blind or deaf. Who is in McCains circle, 3 executives from Fannie Mae. Who up unitl the scandal last month were receiving checks and still on the payroll. Bush couldn't warn anybody about anything, he had his sights set on taking over Iraq. End of discussion. There is not crisis in america, people losing there jobs don't matter, health care has becaome outrageous. But, all you here is about Iraq. What do you hear from Palin & McCain, the same damned thing. I loved how it was McCain to the rescue, and then everything fell apart on this proposed bailout bill. When will people realize this this the republicans last ditch effort, for us to foot the bill for the last 8yrs. There is no such thing as a trickle down effect, so widely accepted by republicans. The rich remain rich, and the poor-poor. Fannie Mae's employee's gave campaign contributions. Nice try though, keep spewing the same crap.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

tuck150 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:22:58 GMT

the bar was set SO LOW for Palin. But the fact she could at times speak in complete sentences; not answer the question asked...but state the memeorized talking point...and throw in some folksy joe 6 pack speak...and a wink....does not make her qualified to lead the country....I for one felt bad for her and was glad to see she survived the event....but in real life you have to answer the actual question asked...along with follow up questions....and Palin while she make a good weather girl....just does not have the skills required.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

SJ71 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:23:44 GMT

1easylay: Okay, I'm done with you. Despite my attempts to engage you in an intelligent debate, you continue to spew hate and distort the past. Whatever!

Why don't you move to Venezuela so you can honor and praise Hugo Chavez? I'm sure you regard him in the highest esteem!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Distressed American — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:25:28 GMT

izme asks who you would rather have. He/she asserts that McCain has reputation for "exposing corrupt politicians" while baselessly asserting that Obama "IS a corrupt politician".

Let's compare shall we?

I guess that izme is too young of ideologically biased to remember that McCain was part of the infamous "Keating Five". Those are some real and busted corrupt politicians. They were in bed with a convicted felon doing many favors for him including pushing the very banking deregulation that has screwed the entire economy.

As you can see, John McCain has a proven track record of corruption.

If anyone wants to talk corrupt politicians while acting like that never happened has zero credibility.

I defy izme to try and offer anything like that about Obama's past.

One day the right may actually base its arguments on facts rather than just spewing lies and B.S.

http://blog.seedsofdoubt.com/

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:27:05 GMT

http://bl115w.blu115.mail.live.com/mail/InboxLight.aspx?n=1263165667

Did the Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae issue start in the Bush Administration?????

According to the 1999 article in the New York Times, it all began with CLINTON. AND Obama buddied up to the people who were messing with our mortgage companies. AND these guys got filthy rich by screwing the American tax payer.

Hmmmmmmmmmm

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Distressed American — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:29:37 GMT

More McCain campaign corrpution for izma:

[B]A Freddie Mac Money Trail Catches Up With McCain[/B]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/161218

Get your facts folks.

http://blog.seedsofdoubt.com/

re: The Tale of Two Debates

raddave — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:29:50 GMT

Izme, Like John McCain exposed those corrupt politician involved in the Keating five scandal? Oh wait, McCain was one of those politicians involved. Obama, on the other hand, has not been a subject of any investigation

re: The Tale of Two Debates

jalenjames — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:30:15 GMT

FIRST OF ALL, I WAS UNDECIDED UNTIL A WEEK AGO, BUT NOW I AM DEFINATELY SURE I MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE. I AM QUITE UPSET THAT PEOPLE ARE BEING SO POLITICALLY CORRECT AFTER LAST NIGHT'S DEBATE. PALIN WAS AVOIDING QUESTIONS!!! IS THIS WHAT I WANT IN MY VP ?? WHAT, WHEN THERE'S A PROBLEM SHE WONT KNOW HOW TO FIX SHE IS GOING TO SWITCH TO, "WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT ENERGY...." OR SHE'S GONNA REFER BACK TO "SOCCER MOMS" BLAH BLAH BLAH...DISGUSTING. I MEAN, MCCAIN IS A GREAT MAN, BUT THIS IS THE ONE TIME HE DID NOT PUT COUNTRY FIRST WHEN CHOOSING HER AS A RUNNING MATE. I LIKE PALIN, SHE IS APPARENTLY A GOOD GOVERNOR, BUT IS NOT READY TO BE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. JUST BECAUSE SHE SEEMS "ADORABLE" AND "SPUNKY" , DOESN'T MAKE HER A CANDIDATE TO BE THE PRESIDENT OF THE MOST POWERFUL NATION ON EARTH, I KEEP SAYING PRESIDENT, BECAUSE PEOPLE FORGET THAT AMONG ALL THE RESPONSIBILITIES A VICE PRESIDENT HAS, PERHAPS WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT THE FACT WE ARE ALSO ELECTING THE PERSON WE WOULD MOST TRUST IF OUR PRESIDENT WASN'T ABLE TO PERFORM HIS DUTIES. AMERICA PLEASE! DID YOU NOT SEE HER STUMBLE AND STUMPED? AND SOMETIMES GO ON A RANT WITHOUT ASKING ESPECIFIC QUESTIONS? WE ALREADY HAVE ONE OF THOSE IN OFFICE, "THANKS BUT NO THANKS FOR THAT BRIDGE TO NOWHERE" <<THAT PHRASE, RIGHT BACK AT YOU PALIN. PALIN TALKS ABOUT ISRAEL, BUT STILL HAS NO CLUE WHO HAMAS IS, DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE REALITIES THAT HUNT AND DIVIDE THE ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS, DIDNT TALK ABOUT HER DISCOMFORT WITH HEZBOLLAH AND HAMAS GOVERNING PARTS OF THOSE REGIONS, LISTEN, I AM NOT AN EXPERT BY ANY MEANS, I'M A YOUNG MAN, WITH A FAMILY TRYING TO PROVIDE FOR MY FAMILY AND LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM LIKE MOST OF YOU. I'M SIMPLY CONCERNED, LET'S BE RESPONSIBLE THIS TIME AMERICA, THE PAST 8 YEARS WE LET SOMEONE STEAL AN ELECTION, TRICK US INTO THE WRONG WAR, TELL US ABOUT THE "STRENGHT" OF THE FUNDAMENTALS OF OUR ECONOMY WHILE IT WAS ON ITS WAY TO IMPLODING AND MADE THE WRONG CHOICE AGAIN ON 2004, CAN WE GET IT RIGHT THIS TIME???, THIS ISN'T ABOUT BLACK OR WHITE, OR CONSERVATIVE OR LIBERAL, THIS IS STRICTLY ABOUT PRESERVING OUR NATION WHERE IT IS AND WHERE IT SHOULD BE, ON THE TOP OF THE SUPER POWERFUL NATIONS. WE ARE GREAT PEOPLE, BUT HAVE BEEN MAKING BAD CHOICES, ESPECIALLY WITH GOVERNMENT ELECTIONS AND ECONOMICS. LET'S NOT ALLOW ALL THIS SMOKE UP OUR ASS, LETS BE CLEAR. ASK YOURSELF IS SARAH PALIN READY TO BE OUR PRESIDENT? THE ANSWER UNFORTUNATELY IS NO. AGAIN, I AM NOT ATTACKING SARAH PALIN, I AM SIMPLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE HAZINESS, WHY ISNT IT CRISTAL CLEAR YET? WHEN I FIRST SAW HER, I WAS PROUD AND SAW HER AS MY POTENTIAL VP, BUT AFTER WATCHING HER PARTY HIDE HER, THEN SEEING HER INTERVIEWED, AND LAST NIGHT'S DEBATE, I AM EXACTLY 700 BILLION PERCENT SURE I DON'T WANT HER AS THE VP OF MY COUNTRY, AND ESPECIALLY NOT AS THE PRESIDENT. I'M SICK OF THIS. IF YOU ARE AN OLDER AMERICAN, PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU MAY NOT BE AROUND TO SEE WHAT YOUR SELFISH BIASED ONE STREET VIEWS WILL CAUSE THIS COUNTRY. HISTORY, ABOUT TO REPEAT IT SELF IF WE DON'T ACT NOW, THE ROMAN EMPIRE IMPLODED, WHEN THEIR SELFISH WAYS TO "PUT THE REPUBLIC FIRST" DIDN'T ALLOW THEM TO UNDERSTAND THIS IS A NEW WORLD, WITH NEW RULES, AND DIPLOMACY HAS TO BE HANDLED BY A NEW GENERATION OF OPEN-MINDED RIGHT AND LEFT WINGERS, USE YOUR OWN JUDGMENT, BUT VOTE ON FACTS, NOT ON "CUTENESS" AND ESPECIALLY DEFINATELY NOT ON JUST "SURVIVING" A DEBATE. SORRY SARAH PALIN, I LIKE "YA" , LOVE YOUR FAMILY AND YOU SERVE AS AN EXAMPLE OF MY AMERICAN DREAM, WITH YOUR MORALS, DETERMINATION AND PERSISTANCE, BUT I AM NOT READY TO VOTE FOR YOU TO BE MY VP, AND ESPECIALLY TO BE MY PRESIDENT GOD FORBID SOMETHING HAPPENED TO OUR GREAT HERO MCCAIN.

GOD BLESS AMERICA AND YOU.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:30:22 GMT

Everything McCain touches, he ruins. Ha!

He's like the Grim Reaper.

Iraq has cost us a trillion dollars?

For what?

To make the contractors wealthy.

Who are these contractors?

Mostly Republicans and democrats.

Who pays for the Republican nightmare that is/was Bush/Cheney and or Palin/McCain???????????

ALL OF US...................FOR THE NEXT 200 YEARS.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Tony-Cambride-England — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:30:26 GMT

I thought it was supposed to be a debate. Mrs Palin did not answer the questions put to her by the moderator, this just emphasized her naivety and failure to address the issues. Anyone including me can go on stage do a political promotion. The difference between Mr Biden and Mrs Palin, was that Mr Biden answered all the questions, Mrs Palin just deflected questions and only wanted to talk about issues she knew about. If Mrs Palin believes people will take her seriously after that woefully inadequate display, then she is not living a world where people need answers to important issues.

Tony

Cambridge

England

re: The Tale of Two Debates

SJ71 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:32:05 GMT

Catbuns1978: First off, I'll respond to your post without insulting you, a courtesy you obviously didn't extend to me... I spent 3 years as a Director at Freddie Mac, then 2 more years as a Senior Director at Fannie Mae. So I happen to have first hand knowledge about about how those organizations operate. I don't know where you get your information, and unless you've actually worked in these companies, I really don't care. Fannie's lobbying group is one of the largest and most powerful in Washington. The Democrats have been in bed with Fannie for years, and Fannie in turn has contributed heavily to the campaigns of many Democrats.

Look, I understand that you vehemently hate Bush. You're disgusted over the war in Iraq, I get that. I'm not happy about it either. I voted for W twice, and I now regret voting at all. He's bogged us down in a ridiculous part of the world, and he has pushed us further into debt. Personally, I wish we had a third altenative on November 4. I'm getting sick and tired of having to choose between the lesser of two evils.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

1easylay — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:32:39 GMT

That's right dave. McCain dumped his first wife after she almost died and a month

later married the heiress.

But, he's a good guy, and everyman, with Alzheimers.

He was good at one time, but John needs to retire and take a break.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

izme — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:32:56 GMT

...Jim Johnson has been tapped by Obama to help choose a running mate for the Illinois senator is making waves.

Who is Jim Johnson?

Johnson served as Fannie Mae CEO from 1991 to 1998 and has a long history in both Washington politics and business. He served on the boards of numerous companies, including The Goldman Sachs Group, KB Home, and Target Corporation, and has been Vice Chairman of Perseus LLC. He also was a corporate finance managing director for Lehman Brothers. He was an executive assistant for Vice President Walter Mondale (1977-1981) and a U.S. Senate staff member. Johnson also helped screen running mates for Democratic presidential nominees Walter Mondale in 1984 and John Kerry in 2004.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Dimples111 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:34:16 GMT

A certain movie comes to mind when I hear the name Sarah Palin CLUELESS. I cannot even

being to take her down home country slang as someting presidential. The only thing she won

last night was the competition on who can be in a debate and never answer a freaking question.

All that studying and you were unable to provide and answer beyound a sound bite, a wink & a

drill baby drill. Why didn't she just go back to her roots and looking into the camera and say;

"I want world peace". When did accepting medocrity become common place for this country?

Can you imagine her in the white asking, "And what is the red button for, after pushing it!" God

Help us all!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

ApostasyUSA — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:35:25 GMT

"Palin battles Tina Fey, while Biden tackles McCain."

Nice one Andrew.....that just about sums it up.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

americandefender — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:40:50 GMT

She is a crocodile in sheeps clothing, you could see her contept for Mr. Bidden in her smile. The ice is melting around her and she denies global warming is man made oh' she conceded part of it is man made what maybe 10% Liar Liar we know how she really feels she didn't fool me.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Distressed American — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:41:32 GMT

Hey izme:

Go Google "Rick Davis 15,000 dollar payments".

I believe you will find many, many stories reporting that until last month McCain's CAMPAIGN MANAGER was receiving 15,000 dollar payments from Fannie May in exchange for nothing more than "access" to John "Keating fIve" McCain. He did not do any work for them. Just got them access to his candidate.

Where Obama fired Johnson, McCain's campaign manager was still taking their "money for nothing" long after Obama had sent Johnson packing. McCain still has his campaign manager.

You cannot make a coherent case that Obama is corrupt while McCain is clean. Can't be done with facts.

But, keep believing your own lies. No one else does.

http://blog.seedsofdoubt.com/

p.s. Still waiting to get a reply about McCain's Keating Five involvement. Talk to me about that if you can. Until then your silly assertions that McCain busts the corrupt and Obama is the coprrupt are laughable. I'll wait.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

4astrongamerica — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:41:52 GMT

I think the lead in and even the title of this article are evidence of the battle that Sarah Palin is fighting in the media. Are "we the people" deciding who should be our next President or is the media? I personally think that this article is so condesending and biased that it is shameful. Sarah Palin ws debating a career politician with 30 years in the US Senate, who according to many experts had one of the best debates of his life and...she hung right in there with him and gave him all that he could handle. Who is Newsweek or Mr. Romano to act like they weren't participating in the same debate, with the same moderator, given the same questions and speaking to the same audience about important issues that face all of us?

Obviously, Sarah Palin is not a Washington insider and doesn't have a lengthy Senate record. Does this make her unqualified to lead? I don't think so; I think it is a plus. Would she have to surround herself with experts to advise her? Absolutely...just as Obama does even now. That is why our Constitution provides for cabinet positions which are held by experts who advise the President and VP. Never in the past have we expected our leader to be an expert in all areas. Why now? She has a greater understanding of energy policy than either of the other candidates. Do you hear anyone giving her credit for that? That is crucial at this point in time. She has a record of reform across the board - including her own party. We all know how much we need reform in Washington. Who better to lead that than someone who doesn't owe anyone in Washington anything, isn't part of the Washington establishment and wants to make Washington work for the people again. She proved to me last night that she can do this job and has earned my vote.

McCain / Palin 08

re: The Tale of Two Debates

dawgs — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:42:13 GMT

Biden, hands down, won this debate. I was undecided after the Presidential debate, and honestly did not expect that to change from watching the VP debate, but was very interested in hearing what Palin was about from her mouth not the media. Palin changed my undecided to casting my vote for Obama/Biden in November. Palin dodged every serious issue by going to her "hockey mom" "Joe sixpack" mantra. Her refusal to answer the moderators questions was unbelievable to me. This was a debate not a pick and choose which questions I want to answer forum. I would be very afraid that something could happen to McCain, if he was to win the election, and that "hockey mom" would become the leader of our country.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

pamcgarrity — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:43:17 GMT

The news media, by their bias words, has hurt their standings with most Americans. Just by

reading their articles you can tell who they are pulling for. What happend to the media?

I do not read or watch television much now because of this. It is just laughable when you sit

back and look at what some of the reporters are saying and writing. They are so afraid someone

might actually disagree with what they think.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

jlowell1 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:43:31 GMT

Andrew! Intelliogent analysis for a change? I can hardly beleive it! Will wonders never cease?!

Admit it...you took some Prozac or something before you wrote the article, right?

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Winski — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:44:32 GMT

Thanks Andrew..I'm glad someone else saw the same thing I did. This was NOT a tryout for Dairy Queen, or a stroll down to the local 45-rpm record store for a continuous loop preview of some 50-year-old vinyl..

Countries and people around the world depend on what happens day-to-day in the US and our relationships around the globe have suffered, almost to the point of obscurity, over the last decade since no one from the current clan that runs our government knows much about the rest of the world- or seems to care.

Palin articulated just what her preparers in Az. told her to and nothing more - no details - no plan - no nothing. She and McCain should feel the embarrassment on a global basis today for being so naive.. shows a complete lack of knowledge regarding the rest of civilization.

If this is the best of the Republican party - they are no longer a viable solution to anything.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

ApostasyUSA — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:47:19 GMT

This is desperate.....

Here's part of a newsletter that the McCain campaign is sending out:

"In the weeks since I joined John McCain as his running mate, the Obama-Biden Democrats have used their allies in the liberal media to paint us negatively, all in an attempt to sway undecided voters. Last night's debate gave me the opportunity to bypass the biased media filter and communicate our shared values of reform directly to the voters.

I know millions were watching as I went toe-to-toe against Senator Biden to explain our plans. Reform Republicans will strengthen the economy, reduce our dependence on foreign oil and secure our nation from the threat of Islamic extremism."

"Reform Republicans"?............Now that's funny.

The "liberal" media?..........Remember: The media is only as liberal as the giant corporations that own it.

Does the McCain campaign really think they can "bypass" the "biased media filter"?

Democrats win in 08...there is no debate.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

4astrongamerica — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:51:48 GMT

Please fix the margins in your comments section. It makes it very difficult to read some of the posts.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Omnius — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:57:30 GMT

Hey Andrew whatever you were smoking while watching the debate I want some! "Simple" Sarah sounded savvy and smart to you, really? Her blizzard of words were incomprehensible most of the time. Why does she hate the English language so much? For a communication major she failed to communicate in the English language any intelligent person knows how to command. What she was was a coward who couldn't answer the questions put forth. She was nothing but a windup action doll who spewed talking points. She was evasive and showed she is power hungry wanting more power for the VP. She did not have command of the facts. I could hardly keep from puking when she was talking, thankfully I could switch to watching the Dodgers thump the Cubs.

On the other hand Joe Biden was clear and concise and never faltered in answering any questions put to him. He was honest and intelligent and his answers sounded like he had a great command of the English language. I want intelligence, not folksy, in the White House. It was clear to any intelligent American that Biden is the best VP candidate we have to vote for by a large margin.

Last night the BS Express ran off the road and crashed. The Straight Talk Titanic hit an Iceberg from Alaska and is now sinking in it's own hubris. Time for the media to do unto "Simple" Sarah what she has been doing to them, attack, attack, attack! Show some cajones Andrew and stop going with the middling crowd of fools who thought she performed beyond expectations.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Distressed American — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:06:25 GMT

Palin could not offer a single area either domestically or internationally where she and "Keating Five" differed with Bush's policies. Not one. That is because she can't. Their policies could not be more in lockstep wtith those of our current disasterous administration.

More bad policy from the right. Always trying to enrich the wealthy at the expense of the poor (while falsely claiming it is good for all of us through the totally discredited "trickle down" model).

Always trying to force our will on other nations through threats and violence.

Always trying to scare Americans into voting for them.

Always lying themselves into their jobs (see the BS claim that Obama will raise taxes when it is well known that 95% of Americans will not see any tax increase under his plan).

No one wants more of that disaster.

She totally lost this debate. Even her reepeated (and debunked) lies could not help her win.

We have seen eight years of lying right wingers. Game's over for that crap. America has had enough.

http://blog.seedsofdoubt.com/

p.s. Still waiting on izme's comments on the Keating Five issue. Seems like that answer may have been just to run away from the facts. Not shocking. But you can bet izme is still somewhere spewing the lies that were posted here. Run izme run!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Libratine — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:08:44 GMT

Bottom Line: Biden moved more uncommitted voters to Obama than Palin did for McCain. Score 2 out of 2. I can't wait for the next Presidential debate!!!!!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

veer5 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:12:28 GMT

Palin held her own....barely. Clearly Biden has many more years experience and a wealth of knowledge, plus the presence to carry it off. Palin has a lot to learn and is far from ready to be the second in command. Personally, as a woman in business, I would never discuss my background or family in a serious debate where people are looking for solutions to critical issues facing our country. What a waste of valuable air time. Lastly, if nothing else, I wish she would hire a nanny to look after the baby....he must be exhausted from being carted around to be on display at every event. We got the message on special needs children at the convention speech...give the poor child a break!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Bluegrass Woman — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:14:09 GMT

Andrew Romano, who put the smack in your cereal this morning? Did we watch the same debate? Palin was her usual speech-dyslexia self when she was off script. She had no facts and played to the less informed of the viewers.

That affected accent (Fargo, North Dakota?) grinds my LAST NERVE!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

memphis_65 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:15:36 GMT

Here is how I see the candiates.

Obama - Very likeable, but not very experienced

Biden - Not so likeable, but very experienced

McCain - Not so likeable, but very experienced

Palin - Very likeable - but not very experienced

So in the world of homecoming kings and queens - both camps are mixed, however I give the edge to Obama, since he is able to speak to reporters without notecards, (which is important as President) and he has a professional demeanor (which is important in dealing with Chiefs of staff and foreign leaders), and he has the ability to think on his feet and make cogent arguments (which is important in diplomacy)

On the issues, you either agree with Obama'a approach, or you agree with McCain's approach. They are very differrent and you either agree with one or the other. So that is a wash.

This election shouldn't be a popularity contest, but since it seems to be going that way, the question is do you want a grumpy old president, or a young vibrant president?

As charming as Palin is, she is not going to be the face of America, the President wil. So of what use will her Vice-presidential"soccer-mon" charm be to the American people? None. As VP she does what the President asks, and votes when there is a tie.

So don't get distracted people. This election is about who the President will be, not who the VP will be.

So you either believe in Obama or you believe in McCain. That's it.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Catbuns1978 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:17:05 GMT

Can someone explain to me the "Joe Six-pack", theory? Because at this point in time middle america can't even afford a 40, and even the homies and getting a drink right now. As far as " hockey moms", those women know what it takes to raise a family. Juggle a budget, and work. She needs to stop making these references like she has any idea who we are. I have a question, why does Todd " Kevin Federline" in training, never take his newborn son? She always passes him off to one of her daughters? You want to promote family values, in my eyes that is a piss poor way of showing it. The "1st dude", better hang 10 off a glacier. He's not doing Palin any good, not that it's going to change anything. The damage is done.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

taubekat — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:21:10 GMT

I am a women and I think she is a joke she mocks what we have fought for the last 100 years. She did not answer the questions she changed the subject. I think all our IQs dropped while watching that debate. Winking at the camera and acting cute will not cut it. I am a successful business woman, married with children who play all kinds of sports and no she does appeal to me at all. Biden is certainly more qualified and she is not equipped to be second or God forbid commander and chief of the United States of America. I am tired of this Joe six pack stuff too we already have Joe six pack and Joe twelve pack in the white house and they have been there for 8 years. I am sick of Joe six pack.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Distressed American — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:25:38 GMT

BTW -

What was that nonsense she said about the Veep having even more Constitutional power over the Senate than has been excersized so far. Cheney expanded that job way beyond the limits in the Constitution. Yet, she ACTUALLY thinks that she can have even more power than he stole???

Seriously! WTF is that about? What was she talking about? What additional powers does she think should have?

Does the right wing know anything about the Constitution other than how to shred it? It would appear not.

Too bad there were no follow up quetions. She should have been asked in detail about that insane claim.

Anyone?

http://blog.seedsofdoubt.com/

re: The Tale of Two Debates

PleaseChange — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:26:26 GMT

Palin certainly did rise above the very low expectations that people had of her going in the debate. She was focused on stayed on message. She did this so much that when asked questions that she wasn't prepped for, she decided not give any answer and even tried to change the rules of the debate by saying she wasn't going to respond the question at hand, she's going to talk right the American people. She has so many teachers in her family...did she learn there are rules? The most disconcerting part for me was her lack of any human response to Biden. He got emotion and did a very good job at composing himself, however, she showed no sympathy, just stood there an smiled. She also smiled when talking about the war which inappropriate considering what it has cost us. A little soberness would have served her better and would have shown her human side.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

McCainPain — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:31:23 GMT

Okay Sara didn’t fall flat on her face or make any major gaffs, but isn’t that like getting the minimum score on the SATs just for writing your name? After eight years of just barely meeting the minimum standards with Duh huh George Bush. I don’t think we need another “Gitter Done for God” spokes person representing our nation while we face dangerous foreign affairs. They say she’s a folksy hockey mom from the small town of Wasilla Alaska. Great but that doesn’t that make her qualified to be the #2 leader of the most powerful and influential nation in the world. Eleanor Roosevelt did not push for civil rights and education by being popular and folksy. Madeline Albright didn’t negotiate with world leaders in times of war without fully understanding the nuances of the situation. Hillary Clinton didn’t read someone else’s Health Care Spending Bill, she wrote it. John McCain and the GOP want us to accept Sara Palin on a wink-wink, Thanks but no thanks, popular cow girl, image. We need an informed, believable leader.

Also in the next debate, I would like Sara Palin to define what winning a war means. She used that phrase multiple times last night, almost like she was cheering her Jr. Hockey team in the playoffs. She said Obama and Biden’s plan was “ a white flag of surrender”. How can she categorize their plan to allow self governance of a Sovergn Iraq, a shift of security responsibilities to their trained military, and reducing our forces in a reasonable time period a form of surrender? I think Palin-McCain are the ones who need start supporting our troops.

So Sara Energy Only Palin ends last night by scaring the little old Jewish ladies about the us being close to another Holocaust, or Grandpa’s talking to their grand children in Korean. She’s using the same shallow scare tactics of the Bush years. I’ll tell you what’s scary, is the thought of another uninformed good old folksy person in the Whitehouse.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

paproudmom — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:34:13 GMT

Looking at the comments it is clear that most of the people commenting are not capable of having an objective thought. It is the "us against them" mentality. Her supposed smiling when when talking about the war is a really obnoxious comment. She has a son going to war I am pretty sure that she would take this situation just a tad bit more seriously then the person attacking her. Also, when Joe Biden teared up over some supposed attack on his fatherhood she was probably wondering what I was - who attacked your fatherhood? I felt that segment was very contrived on his part. But then that is just my opinion.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

paproudmom — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:34:14 GMT

re: The Tale of Two Debates

getAgripUSA — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:37:20 GMT

ahhhh, if only the moderator could've kept the "gov" on topic, we may have had an actual debate.

memphis65: As charming as Palin is, she is not going to be the face of America, the President wil.

Yes, the president will be the face of America.

Palin will be the face of stupidity if he gets up. And the face of the American people's stupidity if McCain's health fails him.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

paproudmom — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:37:28 GMT

I just keep reading the same attitudes. All Republicans are stupid. All Democrats are brilliant, perfect, almost God like. Many post are so condescending. I wonder how many of the people commenting could ever become a mayor or run an entire state in this country. From what I have read probably not many.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Boulder Sue — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:49:55 GMT

PleaseChange, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who who noticed that moment. Fot those who don't know, Joe Bide lost his wife and daughter in a very bad auto accident just before he was to be sworn into Congress. His two sons were severelely injured and there future was in doubt. He nearly quit to stay home to take care of the sons, who fortunately made a full recovery and remarried five years later. Gov. Palin seemed not to even notice that Biden was in pain and trying hard to compose himself as he explained that he knew what it was to be a single parent. She seemed too intent on getting through everything that had been crammed into her head in Sedona without though, let alone following the rules. I don' blame her. If they had been alone discussing Biden's tragedy, I'm sure she would have had a really human connection, but her trainers did their job well. She said everything she was supposed to say like a trained seal performing by rote memorization. She demonstrated no ability to be VP, let alone President, nice person that she might be. You betcha! And her trainers were shameless. They kept Johnny boy from digging his hole deeper, and that's about all.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

dragonfly59 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:51:52 GMT

Republicans ARE stupid if they think Palin would make a good VP. I cannot believe anyone with any level of education can find Palin's "folksy" phrases even close to being presidential. And I do not want "Joe Six Pack" to lead this country. I want the most brilliant person available. I wonder how Republicans would view Palin if she had a couple of warts on her face and weighed 300 pounds!!!!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

paproudmom — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:59:03 GMT

Anyone who calls another studid because they do not agree with them is sadly limiting. You are biased and your arguments unsound. I do have a high level of education and could not agree with you less. Perhaps it is you who are uneducated. Your posting implies this. I want an intelligent, well balanced, practical, non-socialistic candidate. Also one who does not stifle free speech by intimidation tactics and definitely one who would not support a group like Acorn. You don't learn morals in college.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Distressed American — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:59:57 GMT

paproudmom says:

"I just keep reading the same attitudes. All Republicans are stupid. All Democrats are brilliant, perfect, almost God like. Many post are so condescending."

What she is reading is the end result of Republican policies and how they have turned the country against them. On other words, she is just reading the scorn that the right deserves. I guess proudmom has not paid attention to how badly the Republicans have screwed our country in the past eight years.

Bush has acted like he is brilliant and the rest of us are idiots while he was actively destroying this country. He ridiculed and attacked those of us that stood up for policies that were sound and opposed the damage he was doing.

He bankrupted this country in no time flat while making his rich friends even richer. He let a major American city drown and hundreds die needlessly. He invaded an unarmed country that did not attack or even threatened us. He has openly made us a country that embraces torture. He has driven the economy into the ground while addint more than 5 trillion in new debt for our kids to pay off with interest. That was all done with the full support of a Republican rubber stamp congress. Sadly , that is just a small sample of the damage done to this country by Republicans.

If she is so worried about how Republicans are viewed, she should have done something to make them stop sucking so hard. I tried. I bet she just voted Bush. I blame her as much as the politicians on the right for the damage that has been done. Got it proudmom? YOU are responsible for the disasterous last eight years.

As to condescending posts, I also guess she has not paid any attention to how arrogant and condescending the republicans have been while bending us all over. They called us cowards, unamerican, surrender monkeys, etc. So, if she is upset about the tone, she has some mirror looking to do.

http://blog.seedsofdoubt.com/

re: The Tale of Two Debates

paproudmom — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:06:59 GMT

Distressed American. You are just a sad and bitter human being. Go ahead blame Bush for everything. I don't support everything Bush did, as I don't disagree with everything the democrats do. I actually think. Also Bush does not speak for all republicans. Painting people with such a broad brush is so limiting. Claiming one person is responsible for the 8 years is laughable. You did give the people in my office a chuckle. You are a hater and your ugliness shows through. Maybe some counseling would help. I am being reminded by an office member to stop arguing with a fool. I am going to take that intelligent advise to heart.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Boulder Sue — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:08:07 GMT

For those of you trumpeting or criticizing Sarah's sunny smile while discussing the war, and pointing out that she has a son soon to go to Iraq, so does Joe. We have a daughter, former Marine captain helicopter pilot who did two tours. We had to smile, or we would be constantly worrying about something we had litle control over. All we could do was send cheerful letters, e-mails and care boxes from the home front, while opposing the war. I feel for both of them. But Sarah did not seem to be aware of Biden's brief show of emotion. For God's sake, his wife and daughter were killed and two sons nearly didn't make it. He remarried five years later. He was not contriving anything. He is known for being a heartfelt person, which is often the source of his "gaffes". But if you insist on getting nasty about it, look up John McCain's marital history. I once heard him say something to the effect that he regretted how his first marriage turned out, but didn't go into the gory details. Much to his first wfe's, Carol, credit, she seem to have forgiven him, but he really hasn's shown a lot of remorse for what he did to her. I have heard people excuse his behaviour as a result of his prisoner of war experience, believe it or not! If that is so, how would his POW experience influence his Presidency? If you take time to check out the whole story of John, Carol, Cindy and,of all people, Ross Perot, you will understand what I mean.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Distressed American — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:08:39 GMT

Considering how badly Republican policies have failed, "stupid" seems totally appropriate to me. Of course I would add greedy, arrogant and beligerent as well.

You see I do not call Republicans stupid bcause I disagree with them. I call them stupid because their policies have driven this country into the ground. Nothing smart about that.

The smart people were opposing those failed policies.

http://blog.seedsofdoubt.com/

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Catbuns1978 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:10:14 GMT

Paproudmom- So what your saying is that the average person couldn't do the job? Then why is Sarah Palin campaigning " she is the average person"? So your theory doesn't hold water. We need educated people, with common sense to run this country. Granted there are not too many, but I hate to say Sarah Palin does not fit the bill. What do you think is going to happen to her if she deals with a muslim nation, diplomatically? Women are second class citizens, they won't speak to her. So how is that not putting us at a disadvantage? I'm not saying she won't be able to hold her own, but she should have an educated guess. I haven't seen one yet. If you can't even say what newspaper, or magazine, where you get your daily news. How are you going to respond, to a direct question from our troops when, they ask when they get to come home? " I don't know, or I'll go get you some". Are not answers. You would think she would show more emotion, with her son ready to deploy. I would be crushed, and a nervous wreck. You would think she would be pushing for an end to this war. You want the job you should be ready for it, don't ask for more power for your postion. This isn't a evalutation, its an honor and a duty to serve your country. Not a bid to get a higher wage. Don't try to play both sides or the american people, you want to be a strong mother, than bring our troops home. They have done their job. I don't find a white flag of defeat, we help them set up a democratic government, we trained their troops, we've protected their borders. When do we get to do the same at home?

re: The Tale of Two Debates

interestedCanuck — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:10:31 GMT

Newsweek....... your sidebar with advetrisements extends to the point where they cover up the comments and make it all a useless read.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

denheels — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:12:53 GMT

Palin's little dig at Michelle Obama didn't go unnoticed by me. She made the same "i've always been so proud to be an American" comment that Romney and Rudy G made at the RNC. At least the flash polls are giving me hope that the American people are finally looking for substance over style. I'm all for casual Friday's but I expect a little more class than insults, six-packs, and winks from the Vice President of the United States of America. Get out of the gutter Gov. Palin and tell us what you know, if that's very much.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Distressed American — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:18:08 GMT

proudmom,

OK. Let's see wht you've got.

Feel free to tell me which of the disasters I listeed below were not the fault of Republicans. Go ahead and name just one.

I'll wait.

p.s. Yes, I am pissed and I am bitter. The fact that you claim you are not just shows how little attention you have been paying while giving your loyalty to the folks destroying the country. Anyone that is thinking is angry and we will not let you and those like you keep destroying this country. We are done with that. That is why you will be so disappointed the morning after the election. Republicans are going to get routed.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

scales — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:29:06 GMT

golly, geez, shucks! Weren't you guys fooled by Palin's god-awful folksy, down-home personality? Or her refusal to actually answer the questions? What's with you guys-- are you actually using your brains or sumtin? Well, gooooooooooollllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyy!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

SJ71 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:29:48 GMT

Distressed American: You are so misinformed about Republican economic polices that it's sad. Republicans are not responsible for the sub prime mortgage mess, which can be traced to the Bill Clinton adminstration. They, along with their allies in Congress like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, pushed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to relax lending standards. Their goal was to make it more "affordable" for minorities and low income families to get homes, which is laughable when you consider that the end result was families of 5 making little to no money getting $200,000 mortgages. Home prices fell because supply exceeded demand, and shortly thereafter the defaults and foreclosures in the subprime market began. And here we are over a year later.

And let's not forget that your side of the aisle has been in control of Congress for 2 years now. Where is your blame against the majority party? As for your comments regarding spending, Congress controls the purse. Again, why do you refuse to lay any blame on the Democrats? I have no problems taking issue with Republicans when I think they're wrong. Why is that you liberals are so one-track minded and such robots that you can't think beyond the rhetoric you hear and absorb from the Democratic National Committe and the mainstream media... who are one in the same by the way.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

tetonacct — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:33:17 GMT

Sarah Palin acts like she is running for first lady rather than vice president. She has a "cause," she lists talking points with no substance, and seems more interested in being "cute " than being taken seriously.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

clinging to guns and religion — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:35:25 GMT

Spare us more change

George Bush has been in office for 7 ½ years. For the

first six years, the economy was fine. A little over one year ago:

Consumer confidence stood at a 2 ½ year high.

Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon.

The unemployment rate was 4.5 percent.

The Dow Jones hit a record high of 14,000-plus.

Americans were buying new cars, taking cruises and vacations

overseas – living large!

But Americans wanted “Change”. So in 2006 they voted in

a Democratic Congress. And, yep, we got change all right:

Consumer confidence has plummeted.

Gasoline hit $4 a gallon.

Unemployment is up to 6.1 percent.

Americans have seen their home values drop by trillions of

dollars.

1 percent of American homes are in foreclosure.

The Dow Jones is probing another low – nearing 11,000 – and

$2.5 trillion has evaporated from our investment portfolios.

Yep, in 2006 America voted for change! And we got it – a

Democrat Congress led by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

Now the Democratic candidate for president claims he’s

gonna really give us change!

Just how much more “change” do you think you can stand?

re: The Tale of Two Debates

tetonacct — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:38:34 GMT

re: The Tale of Two Debates

MomZ — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:43:24 GMT

Everyone is worried about Palin's lack of experience and I admit she has some learning to do, but the truth is she has more actual experience than Obama. Noone questions his experience because he talks very smoothly.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Pallisor — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:46:29 GMT

Distressed American, I'll give you the biggest disaster we face:

If you'd do a little research, you would know that the financial crisis we're in was created when Clinton, who was obsessed with multiculturalism, signed legislation that forced lenders into making risky, sub prime loans. Bush and McCain tried to reform Fannie and Freddie in 2003 and 2005, but were blocked by democrats Chris Dodd and Barney Frank.

Barney Frank, 2003 in response to Bush administration overhaul plan:

"These two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing".

John McCain, 2005

"I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole".

Obama and his democrat buddies never let the truth get in the way of a good story. Never has this been more true than now in the face of a financial crisis in this country. A financial crisis Clinton and his party created. And Obama, the candidate of change, was in bed with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac yet he criticizes John McCain, who along with George Bush, who tried to fix the problem.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

kamakiriad — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:47:34 GMT

SJ71, people aren't misinformed on this issue, you are just repeating the newest Republican talking points, where they try to deflect blame for the issues they created. The real economic issue is our move 28 years ago from a standard economic model to a supply-side economy. This was Reagan's doing if you really want to find fault. The idea that if you give all the tax breaks and benefits to the ultra rich they will generously dump all those benefits back into the economy/jobs instead of their pockets has been proven false. The reality is that if you gut the earning and spending power of the middle class (as we've done for 28 years) the rich eventually lose customers to buy their products or make house payments. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac gave money to congressmen on both sides of the aisle to prevent oversite. Bush supported it because it kept the economy running hot, thus funding his war. We need to go back to a standard economic model. No more cute Republican gimmicks where we rape the middle-class to enrich the top 3%. Blame Democrats, blame Republicans, it doesn't matter so long as they put our economic house back in order.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

krounded — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:51:56 GMT

Mr/Ms Clinging........What specific actions have the Democrats taken in the last 2 years to destroy the economy? Seems to me they have not done much at all. Bush vetos everything they try to do (plus they're Democrats). Democrats do not have a veto proof margin of control in Congress.

Change is coming whether you like it or not. Change could be a Democratic President and/or it could be a severe recession or many other things. Deal with it.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Distressed American — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:53:39 GMT

Hey Clinging,

The economy has not been fine for the first six years of Bush's disasterous policies. It was an inflating bubble brought about through dogmatic Republican deregulation. You've heard of bubbles right? They look good while you are in them. But, they are fake. They are false. They will eventually pop.

The recent crisis is the direct result of Republican policies. The actions of the Dems in congress for the past two years DID NOT in any way cause the meltdown we are seeing. What you are seeing is the end result of the bubble that Republican deregulation brought about. This is the end result of Reagan republicans who want the rich made even richer at all costs. But, feel free to keep making excuses for the damage they (you) have done.

Clinton's economy made Bush's look pitiful. He produced a budget surplus by making the largest descretionary spending cuts in 50 years. Bush has added some FIVE TRILLION dollars to the debt, the vast majority of that accrued under a Republican congress.. And you folks still have nerve to talk about how you are fiscal conservatives. There is nothing conservative about modern Republicans. Just BORROW AND SPEND until the cows come home (or the economy collapses).

Those that still have not internalized basic facts such as those needn't waste people's time with hollow partisan bloviating.

On the otherhand, I give you credit for replying. Proudmom just ran away.

http://blog.seedsofdoubt.com/

re: The Tale of Two Debates

tippology1 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:55:36 GMT

Democrats are so full of S...T it is really starting to stink. Anything that is democratic is safe and ok and anything that comes from the McCain camp is bad. I am so sick and tired of these old, pointing fingers wanna be president democrats is just awful what is happen this country. Democrats are saying what eve the public wants to hear to win and it just guttless to the point are are a nations of haters and winders.....Again I hope noting but the very ..... for the country under Barry if he wins.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Jurr — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:58:51 GMT

Yo clinging aren't ya forgetting a few things?

Two wars raging total $1,000,000,000,000

Enron

5 different spikes in gas prices: 1. When Bush 1st got elected 2. 9-11 3. When Bush got re-elected 4. post Katrina 5. right now which has been going on since last year

record oil profits quarter after quarter

Torture

Patriot Act and new definitions for Executive Privilege

The doubling of our national debt

Bin laden is still on the loose

Not a damn thing done about SS or Medicare

increased taxbreaks for the Wealthy

Increasing income for the wealthy

decreasing income for middle class & poor

$1,000,000,000,000 in bailout this year alone

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Distressed American — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:59:31 GMT

Kamakiriad,

Totally agree with your post. You know what is goin on. I guess you have been here for the past eight years. I do take issue with one part of the post though. Where you say that Bush kept the economy artificially "hot" andthat helped pay for his wars, you are not correct. Bush borrowed all of the money for his wars. Our kids will thank us for stealing their economic future by saddling them with historically large Republican debt (plus interest od course). I'm sure our "friends" like Communist China and Saudi Arabis are making a killing on our borrowed blood money,

Borrow, kill and fill the pockets of the rich. Great policies. The same policies McCain is pushing BTW.

http://blog.seedsofdoubt.com/

re: The Tale of Two Debates

The PAB — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:00:44 GMT

So not falling on your face is the definition of a successful debate?

Could someone PLEASE inform Ms Palin that there is no such word as Nuke Yu Ler? And if you are going to be Speekin to tha world leaders in tha future ya might wanta try a little diction insteada tha folksy "we've gotta have" "gonna" and "ya know." Being cutesy and folksy, winking, and coy flirty sidelong looks are really not going to get you in the circle of decision making. The constant use of them by Ms Palin is, if anything, the most sexist part of the last few weeks. Can you imagine if Joe Biden had spent the night winking at "Sarah?" I was half expecting her to do a hair flick and a pouty come hither look.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Guilvert — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:06:35 GMT

Way to funny. Now the fail economy is Clintons fault...hummmm next week they may have go back to Carter!!! What about you Republicans that had control the congress for 14 years and the presidency for 12 of the last 20 years!!! You had ruin our economy, The "R" in republican stand for RECESSION!!!

These Republicans should spend less time watching cartoon "trying to figure out who is gay" and more time managing our economy. I'm glad that these two looser ( Bush and Cheney ) are getting close to take off, I wish them well in their retirement, now they will have more to look for weapons of mass destruction…..

As per you VP choice...what a joke. here are her answers:

Question: Climate change:

Answer: Causes of climate change, for example, the Alaskan seemed unable to muster an intelligible response. "I'm not one to attribute every man--activity of man to the changes in the climate," she said. "There is something to be said also for man's activities, but also for the cyclical temperature changes on our planet.... What I want to argue about is, how are we going to get there to positively affect the impacts?" WHAT ?????? run that over ........Joe 6 puck (without the wink...please)

Question: Israel:

Answer:

"A two-state solution is the solution. And Secretary Rice, having recently met with leaders on one side or the other THERE!! (TO FUNNY) also, still in these waning days of the Bush administration, trying to forge that peace, and that needs to be done, and that will be top of an agenda item, also, under a McCain-Palin administration. Israel is our strongest and best ally in the Middle East. We have got to assure them that we will never allow a second Holocaust, despite, again, warnings from Iran and any other country that would seek to destroy Israel, that that is what they would like to see." WHAT ??????? the republicans should be so proud of this VP choice... just a joke.....

Governors Palin is the worse VP pick in American history!!! " god save us all" if she is elected!!! NOW that is the true

re: The Tale of Two Debates

mcbook — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:07:08 GMT

Governor Palin met expectations which were low. However, she did not display the dignity, intellectual capacity and polish the VP office commands. Too much folksiness, eye blinking, non answers, etc. did not exhibit the seriousness and depth she shoud have shown. The overly rehearsed responses (or non-responses) were not convincing and only turned me off. Sarah would be great as a talk show host.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

whatev — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:08:52 GMT

Anyone who doesn't think that the problems we are in now are a result of both the Democrats and Republicans is nothing more than a partisan sheep following the herd of their choice. Both parties have been the majority is both the legislative and executive branches in the past 3 decades. Neither party has been able to solve any real problems during their majority time, except for thew few years in which Clinton and Gingrich worked together to solve welfare reform and budget deficits. But unforetunately both parties demonized the other and split that partnership up. Our political system is worthless. We are lucky to even have a political system that is reactive...let alone even talking about a system that is proactive to problems. If you support either party at this time, then you are not paying attention. They both suck equally.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

DOYLESPAR@VERIZON.COM — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:09:41 GMT

Where is the tie. ? During the follow ups on NBC , CBS CNN Biden won double digits and in the 100 person room of undecideds there were only less than ten who said Palin won and changed their vote to McCain.The favor Obama was over 24 people.

It was suprising to see the Palin family without their 8 sled dogs and that youngest child being trucked around like a stage prop by the five year old.

Maybe if she wins they can afford a baby sitter after all it's after ten PM

No one has asked Palin how that abstinence planning is working out in her family.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Distressed American — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:09:53 GMT

Tippology,

"I am so sick and tired of these old, pointing fingers wanna be president democrats is just awful what is happen this country."

With English skills like that, it is no wonder you are attracted to Palin. She can't form a coherent sentence either. You must be the "Joe Sixpack" she says she represents. LOL!

http://blog.seedsofdoubt.com/

p.s. It is the Republican "wanna be president" that is old.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

hold2file — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:10:13 GMT

Bingo.

Palin showed herself as the "Stepford Vice President" more concerned with her talking points than the issues or ideas.

I think most voters will say "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. But don't try to fool me a third time." The others will vote for McCain/Palin.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Guilvert — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:13:32 GMT

As per you VP choice...what a joke. here are her answers:

Question: Climate change:

Question: Israel:

Answer:

Governors Palin is the worse VP pick in American history!!! " god save us all" if she is elected!!! NOW that is the true bridge to nowhere

re: The Tale of Two Debates

whatev — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:14:44 GMT

Doylespar - now that was an intelligent comment. (please notice my sarcasm).

Guilack or whatever - If you think Palin was wrong in saying that global warming is a result of a mixture of human activities and cyclical forces then please answer to me how since the end of the last ice age 10,000 years ago the ice has been melting. Please help me understand. Were we Americans driving cars and burning coal 10,000 years ago to start the melting of the ice. And then explain to me that if the earth does not have cyclical forces at work then how did the last ice age start...or end?

re: The Tale of Two Debates

jljnc — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:16:43 GMT

I personally found Biden's use of the terrible tragedy of his wife and child's deaths and his injured sons as a way to demonstrate how he is an average American and can "connect" around the kitchen table as contrived and ill-advised.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

bluebloodedLV — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:26:16 GMT

The republicans are gushing this morning. They are proud of this twit. I figured out last night why Palin cannot successfully sit down and speak with someone (even the fiercly intimidating Katie Couric, lol). Palin is a fraud and she doesn't really believe the talking points she's being asked to regurgitate. So when she's one on one, she cannot look someone in the eye and speak intelligently and convincingly. On stage, she's rehearsed and is performing. She's and actress playing her role. Either that or she was start struck with Couric, hahah. Palin used to be an anchor too ya know!!

Donate and volunteer to the Obama campaign. Do all YOU can do to make sure this woman and her pimp daddy don't get elected.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

pinkpanther87413 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:30:40 GMT

Even i can be coached for a debate!!! She sounded so coached it made me nausious,like fingernail on a chalk board. I would love to spend Mon night Football with "Sixpack Joe" beats forking over "1500 for 61 Merlot, so she would visit, and take a check Palin"! MINE!!!

If the question was not covered in pre-debate coaching, she changed directions, batted her eyes [not working for me] ans started a conversation of her direction,empty, is a gross understatement, You cannot cram for the post of PRESIDENT!

When did we re-define the AXIS OF EVIL, to include the countries she wants to invade.Rather than talk to???

Andew[ author] your in lust boy. are you infactuated with this woman who wants women back in the kitchen or what???

McCain/Quayle,opps Palin will be our last, cause with nuclear power, this planet will not last those two in the WH,FACT! WE will pay to rebuild the world,, not our country!

Obama/Biden, alive or dead, either can lead,us into a era of "border to border coast to coast. AMERICA FIRST"!!! Something the hearts of all Veterans feel and cry about every day,, for the rest of our lives, or till this madness stops!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Guilvert — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:32:17 GMT

Jljnc: Sen. Biden was only taking about he's life!!

Mrs. lipstick did what she did better "talk non-sense"

Let replay: As a Hokey mom I can solve all the world problems like a " on one side or the other THERE!! " Don't get me wrong, she's a lovely lady but please!! The best place for her is in Alaska (On the other THERE) as a MOM or a Gov of a small town... She's definitely qualify for that... She can also volunteer teaching abstinence…upss she's not qualify for that either yuck!! There is always work painting the bridge to nowhere..

re: The Tale of Two Debates

parallevar — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:38:59 GMT

Mr Romano

Enjoyed your excellent analysis of the VP debate. There is one thing though, in the fifth paragraph you write "The problem for Palin ... is that she often seemed to run out of (or simply spew out) talking points--at which point her answers would disintegrate into the confusing 'blizzards of words' that Charles Gibson recently endured." In the next sentence you write "Asked about the causes of climate change ... the Alaskan seemed unable to muster an intelligible response." You then write "Her answer on Israel was similarly scrambled and similarly generic."

Why then, in the next paragraph, do you write "Tonight, Palin proved she's not an incompetent speaker"?

What more does she have to do? There were a couple times I thought she was speaking in tongues.

I'll say this for her though, compared to W, she's Winston Churchill.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

whatev — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:41:59 GMT

As a registered Republican (Not a proud one) I must say I wish Joe Biden was our next President. He was my candidate of choice before the primaries even started. Joe Biden is a good man with some great ideas and knows how to get stuff done. If Biden was the Dems nominee, he would win by a Reagan landslide.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

dunnhaupt — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:43:25 GMT

When the votes are counted in November and McCain is toast, the pundits should give credit to the enormously talented Tina Fey who single-handedly flattened Palin in a knock-out punch, from which she never recovered. Laughter is still the most powerful weapon.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

eyesus34 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:44:22 GMT

The folksy slang (did she really give a "shout out" to Wasilla Elementary?) and plucky optimism might have played well duing her interviews with Gibson and Couric but were entirely inappropriate in the formal setting of a debate. When she mediates talks between Isreal and Hamas will she pepper her negotiations with "darn rights", "you betchas" and "gosh darn its"? Can her magic wink convince the Saudi's to increase oil production while we wait for our own off shore drilling to produce results? Will her small town aw-shucks charm convince the North Korean's to dismantle their "nukular" program? At this level NOT falling on your face doesn't qualify as a win.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

pinkpanther87413 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:53:39 GMT

BTW

The natural gas line comment is for real,,, BUT

not one piece of dirt has been dug yet???

In the 5 years sense it has passed??

mmm,must get in the way of forign relations,, by becomming part of her view, from her window!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

yolishemp — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:59:16 GMT

As a north american,living in the uk went to columbia university in the sixties i feel american and cannot vote but i stand out at train station getting americans to register,when people see barack obamas fliers they all get so excited that we will have a better planet,he will heal the planet,bring countries together for a common cause and he will get the economy strong again.

I know biden was rhe winner one thing he did not challenge her about the abuse in her state on the envirornment i wish some one will check out her behavior on that state which affect us all.

God bless Barack Obama how he has inspire me and everyone i meet know that he will make a difference to our planet

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Krohn — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:59:48 GMT

EVEN MORE ON THE VOTER FRAUD THAT IS GOING ON IN KEY BATTLEGROUND STATES!:

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=3129737&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/

DON'T SAY THAT I NEVER WARNED OF OBAMA'S NEFARIOUS CAMPAIGN!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

sita — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:02:54 GMT

Palin, though she may come across like a kind "hockey mom", choosing her as VP is an embaresment and shows complete disrespect to the american people. Mc Cain must think that the majority of america people are naive to think that she is a good canidate to possibly hold the leadership position of president....shame on him. How can we continue to present ourselves as a great country and leader in the world if we place individuals such as Palin, in one of the highest roles, when her lack of experience was clearly manifested in recent interviews and the debate, What does this say about the american people, if we allow another George Bush like person ( one lacking in qualifications) to reach the White House. I feel sorrow and fear for the outcome of our country.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

sita — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:02:54 GMT

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Opinionated1 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:08:20 GMT

I was very impressed by last night's debate, it was quite different than i expected. I was ready with my popcorn and soft drink, waiting for the comedy hour, and Sarah Palin was the punch line. Well, needless to say it was different from what I expected. Her confidence was back which was good, and she spoke clearly, that was good too, but she never laid out ANY plan. There was no detail on the pull out from the war, or on the mortgage crisis. She quote the republican rhetoric very well. But her "anywhoo" attitude was a bit much for this northeasterner, and she was not persuasive enough to sway my vote. She was not informative, I learned nothing new about McCain/Palin doctorine, she was more of a walking advertisement for her ticket. On the other hand, Senator Biden was very reserved. Mr. Biden was very respectful and seemed to give thought to her stance on the issues, when he could have really tore her a new one. He made her feel like a worthy adversary, he didn't down play her opinions or ridicule her stance. This showed me a new side of both candidates. But I still have not been moved. No more Republican policies, no more downplaying the will of the American people. Sure both parties have their "achilles heels", but I am voting Obama/Biden.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

mrsdawnw — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:12:23 GMT

If you want to talk about voter fraud, check out JB VanHollen the AG for Wisconsin. He (a republican) all of a sudden wants extra confirmation of voters, so that could prevent some voters from voting on election day. He said that he had not discussed this with the Republican party, however he is one of the leading members of McCain's team.

Where was this call to duty six months ago? All of a sudden it is a hot issue a month before the election? Luckily the judiciary know better.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

justanothervet — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:13:21 GMT

Will O'Biden choke if he becomes president? Yes

Will O'Biden choke if he meets with heads of state or dictators from axis of evil? Yes

Will O'Biden choke if "SARAH" doesn't let up on Joe? Yes

Will O'Biden cry if he has to debate "SARAH" again? Yes

Will O'Biden admit "SARAH" Barracuda chewed his butt off and got under his skin? No

Will O'Biden the Robert Culp (I Spy with Bill Cosby) look alike act alike take a licking from Obama? Uh duh ah duh duh uh YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS uh says The Great Orator Obama.

"SARAH" WON THE DEBATE EASILY.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Guilvert — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:13:43 GMT

Krohn:...........Please don't make me laugh ….. Are you giving us lesson in honesty!!!! What a joke… Republican stole the last two elections by fraud . The American people know the true sinister agenda of the Republican party… I do give you credit ……you republicans definitely know how to destroy the economy.. There is coincident that all the major recession HAD BEEN UNDER the republican watch… R=RECESSION=REPUBLICANS..

re: The Tale of Two Debates

yesyoucan2008 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:22:28 GMT

It was an interseting debate. I thought while, Palin exhibited a much better performance than in the past few days, Biden still came off more intelligent on the issues. Neither one went in depth with Palin speaking in only generalities. I still questions McCain's judgement w/ Palin. She has solidified the base, but the problem is that the Reps are the problem, at least in the overall consensus w/ americans. She did not do anything for independents and the reluctant women Dems who are still butt hurt about Hillary. Overall, the Poll numbers will jump a bit for McCain, but by tuesday, if as expected, McCain will lose ground again with the next debate.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

orion12 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:25:51 GMT

I watched this debate live. I watched what the pundits had to say beforehand. I was immersed in the story. So I feel, as Romano, that I am qualified to give an assessment of the debate.

This analysis is somewhat wishy washy. It is not bad but it is trying to please the Paline-McCain camp at the same time.

Palin did not at all do well. She did not answer the questions to any reasonable depth. She had rehearsed certain things and irrespective of what was asked that is what she talked about. She came on and on to energy, again without much depth. Sad. She came again and again to her family. She behaved like she had learned the lines. Even when she attacked Biden a few times you can tell that she had been told to say those things. She was out of context most of the time.

My life has been spent assessing people, evaluating activies in an objective mannier. I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt on some issues but it was difficult. She just did not make it. The problem is that Palin has not at that high intellectual level because she has not developed herself to get there. I figure that she has managed to get where she is by being cute and working on the weaknesses of people, to get ahead. She may not have felt that it is worth the time to raise herself intellectually and to master certain issues that makes a seasoned politician. She is full of cliches, silly phrases, inappropriate comments, etc that shows that she lacks certain fundamental education and information. I personally feel sorry for her but again on reflection I think that she is over ambitious and does not even know her weaknesses. On the other hand she may know her weaknesses but may feel that "Oh, I can always talk or charm my way out of that one.."

This debate was dominated by Biden and he excelled. He showed mastery of the issues and there was NO WAY any comparison could be made between their performances. Despite Palin's silly punches, he remained in command and just ignored some of them. She was, I am sure banking on Biden hammering her and then getting sympathy of viewers. It did not work.

I think that if politics should become respectable, we need to see performances such as that of Biden. We saw the attitude of Obama, which was again in my view much better that that of McCain. These two men have shown that you can win a debate by being professional and not going for your adversary's throat.

The next debate will be something to watch. I can before hand see the outcome. I hope that McCain will not try to rip Obama's throat out. But he will, because of how he is performing in the polls and because that is how he debates.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

can't see — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:26:26 GMT

Are you kidding me ! Sen. Biden KICKED HER ASS ! She sounded like a McCain campaign commercial. Maverick this an Maverick that..........what the hell do we need a Maverick in office for ? Who the heck are we electing the Lone Ranger an Tonto? if you have not waken up after last nights debate, then please do your own research.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Guilvert — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:26:33 GMT

justanothervet: ... Not sure what debate were you watching ?

But to say that she wont !!!

Way to funny Mr or Mrs Justanothervet or whatever your name is .....here are the facts:

The republicans are running out of TIME. Now it happens that the fail economy is Clintons fault...hummmm next week they may have go back to Carter!!! What about you Republicans that had control the congress for 14 years and the presidency for 12 of the last 20 years!!! You had ruin our economy, The "R" in republican stand for RECESSION!!!

As per you VP choice...what a joke. here are her answers:

Question: Climate change:

Question: Israel:

Answer:

Governors Palin is the worse VP pick in American history!!! " god save us all" if she is elected!!! NOW that is the true bridge to nowhere…...R=RESESSION=REPUBLICANS..

re: The Tale of Two Debates

wilbertaberry@gmail.com — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:26:37 GMT

Palin would be find for the Jerry Springer show...you betcha..all the joe six packs out there would

love her....however the World was watching too. the standards for Palin were so low they were on the floor...folksy my ***...I don't want TRAILER PARK TRASH in the OVAL OFFICE.....MY

STANDARDS are higher than SARAHS.....obviously higher than a lot of Americans....SCARY STUFF coming from McCains side....Palin never answered ANY of Gwens questions...she asked and

answered her own and STOLE a few answers from BIDEN....the same way McCain does OBAMA.

Fine America put McMummy/SOCCER MOM in the White HOUSE...in the end it will be the end

of America...I can see the World Leaders carving out thier chunks as I write.BYE BYE...USA.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

can't see — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:31:01 GMT

Oh yea ! for the Palin supporters...............PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT, MEANING SHE IS GETTING BETTER AT BENG PREPARED BEFORE HER INERVIEWS. LOL !

re: The Tale of Two Debates

fauven05 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:31:16 GMT

We have two winners and two losers.

If the goal of the debate was to largely ignore policy issues and do some public relations repair as a result of previous damaging interviews, Palin won.

If the goal of the debate was to have the most consistent, logical, sensible answers to the questions asked (or even answer the questions asked, for that matter), then Biden won. In fact, not only did Biden win, he thoroughly owned Sarah Palin, he mopped the floor with her.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

yesyoucan2008 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:31:56 GMT

As for my wife's assessment on the debate, she was more subjective. She said that Palin showed a different side than she has noticed thus far. On her comment about the VP powers, my wife said that she sounds very power hungry and that Hillary should watch out in 2012/ 2016. I quickly told her that no matter who wins in Nov, it will be a crappy term for either President. If McCain wins, then Palin's association w/ his administration will be garbage. Her best bet will be if Obama wins, but doesn't measure up to his promises. Then you will have the catfight of the century. Hillary vs. Palin for all the marbles. My pick Hillary in a landslide.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

jljnc — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:32:23 GMT

Guilvert, you replied "Jljnc: Sen. Biden was only taking about he's life!!"

If you review the debate you will see how he made the comments about the terrible tragedy of his wife and children in a direct comeback as his specific example of how he, too, connects around the kitchen table on Main Street, How does this tragedy directly correlates to sharing in the struggles of average Americans paying higher taxes and gas prices, their 401ks taking a hit, struggling to send kids to college, and not having health care insurance...unless he didn't have health insurance when it happened and struggled to pay the bills...which isn't the case. It was a sad, terrible tragedy and in my opinion shouldn't be used to try to score political points with the public. As I said, it was contrived and ill-advised.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

DUMPLIN — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:33:38 GMT

YOU DON'T WANT TRAILER PARK TRASH BUT IT'S OKAY TO HAVE A CHICAGO THUG?

PALIN WON ON SUBSTANCE AND FACTS. BIDEN TOLD LIE AFTER LIE.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

cnorris — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:34:08 GMT

Did anyone else think that Palin was reading promps from her blackberry? Is that possible?

Just watching her attention to her podium instead of to Biden's statements and the way she seemed to answer only what she was prepared for instead of what was being asked made me suspect that she was more of a performer or more accurately a puppet reading someone else's lines off realtime cue cards.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

DUMPLIN — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:36:16 GMT

THE FM/FM MONEY TRAIL HAS DEMOCRAT FINGERPRINTS ALL OVER IT BUT OF COURSE THE LIBERAL MEDIA WILL COVER FOR THEM AND HELP THEM WITH POINTING FINGERS AT THE WRONG PEOPLE

re: The Tale of Two Debates

DUMPLIN — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:37:59 GMT

BIDEN MAKES A GOOD LIVING AND HAS A BEAUTIFUL HOME BUT IN THE LAST TEN YEARS HAS GIVEN LESS THAN $5000 TO CHARITY. HE WANTS TO SPEND MY MONEY NOT HIS OWN

re: The Tale of Two Debates

GUNSOE — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:38:15 GMT

IT IS VERY SCARY TO THINK WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF THE OBAMA BIDEN TICKET WINS THIS ELECTION I HOPE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE NOT THAT STUPID YET MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON US ALL..

re: The Tale of Two Debates

demographics_are_changing — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:39:33 GMT

I'm from Alaska, and Alaska is not the "Heartland" as Palin pretended it was. We don't need "Wasilla Main Street" in D.C. Go to Wasilla, see how backwards and unrepresentative of the nation's demographic that it is.

Voter Fraud? Read this article:

http://www.theroot.com/id/48123

If Joe's only task was not to lay into Palin for fear of being perceived as "condescending" for exposing her ignorance, and that her "success" is that she showed she can appear as though she's not an idiot, well that in itself proves that she is not a winner. Ever.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

DUMPLIN — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:49:38 GMT

LOOK AT WHO DECIDES WHO WON THE DEBATE. THE LIBERAL MEDIA AND THEY ALL SUPPORT OBAMA (OBVIOUSLY) GET REAL

re: The Tale of Two Debates

americandefender — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:50:52 GMT

Obviously the right wingers are in denial the only liar is Palin, they kept a good leash on her beacouse if she really would have spoke her mind it would go like this: there is no global warming, women should not be allowed to have abortions under any circumstances so that means kids should continue to have kids and finally lets kill all the animals in alaska so we can drill drill drill!!!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

DUMPLIN — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:51:00 GMT

PELOSI NEEDS ANOTHER FACE LIFT. THAT WOULD KEEP HER OUT OF WASHINGTON FOR AT LEAST A SHORT TIME.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

nohitter2001 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:51:44 GMT

TIME FOR A CHANGE ,I THINK SO, WHEN HAVE WE HAD SOMEONE FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE? PALIN WILL BE THE FIRST AND YOULL BE STUPID NOT TO VOTE FOR HER AND THE OLD MAVERICK

re: The Tale of Two Debates

DUMPLIN — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:52:59 GMT

YEH PELOSI LET'S HAVE SOME SCRUTINY AND ACCOUNTABILITY ON THIS BAILOUT. SOME HONEST SCRUTINY AND ACCOUNTABILITY AND YOU KNOW FOR A FACT THE FINERS WON'T BE POINTING TO REPUBLICANS.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

bear8675 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:53:07 GMT

Wow, so what I am hearing is that the entire blame for this economic mess lies with minorities getting mortagages? For the record, the banking industry has crumbled because the Bush/ Cheney administration deregulated the industry so completely that there was no one watching the rich steal from the majority. It was lack of regulation that resulted in schemes like Enron, that bilked hundreds of dedicated, hard working employees out of their EARNED pensions. This administration has managed to destroy a financila system that survived two world wars and the great depression. For the record, I am not a reactionary Liberal, in fact, my father is an OIL and GAS LAWYER. So yeah, I get both sides. And in fact, he agrees that we have gone too far. It seems pretty hypocritical that a party that advocates small government wants to decide how we should all love, parent, and worship. The reality is that, yes, if you go to far to the left you get Stallin, but if you go to far to the right you get Hitler. Which scares you more? I think we have to walk a fine line in the middle, and we are so far to the right of the middle right now tha we have to swing to the left to even ourselves out from the bumbling idiocy of the last 8 years. I considered myself almost a libretarian before 2000, but Bush has convinced me that that way too lies madness. I don't know how he can look at himself in the mirror.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

stryk55 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:54:34 GMT

The liberal media? Please...I'm so sick of hearing that crap. Just because Couric asks a question about Supreme Court cases that Palin can't answer, it's all the medias fault? I would HOPE that a person serving at almost the highest government position would know a little bit more about our judicial history. A "gotcha" questions? Yes..."gotcha" looking unprepared and ignorant to our national history...

re: The Tale of Two Debates

fireflies — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:58:44 GMT

Even the moderator, Gwen Ifill, is pro Obama. How can you wina debate like this.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

richardcheese — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:59:18 GMT

Yay! Go Palin! Your knowledge of the facts and oozing integrity are a shining example to us all! Your preparedness for the debate was exemplary!! Yay McCain!! You are sooooooo different than dubya it's amazing! You are nothing like him at all! Your clear policies and honest track record make you the clear choice!!

Come on people.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds anyone pronouncing nuclear as "nucular" to be an idiot.

Dumplin: Biden lied? About what, specifically? Palin told the truth throughout the debate? Uh, no. She did not. McCain gets no money from Fannie/Freddie? Uh, yes. He does even now.

Palin won (!?) on substance (?!!!????!) and facts (!!!???????????!!!!!!!!!). Yeah. Right.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

MichiganMatt — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:59:47 GMT

Great leaders are born, not created. As an undecided voter, I watched this debate with great anticiaption. I was looking for something....ANYTHING from Sarah Palin to make me believe that she is credible enough to stand a heartbeat away from the presidency. She is most definately not. Locking her in "debate camp" for the last five days has done nothing but turn her into a robot with some Carl Rove styled talking points. I was underimpressed to say the least. I was leaning towards Obama before the VP debate but still undecided. I am firmly behind Obama now. I believe John McCain's selection of Sarah Palin proves that he is unfit to lead. This isn't a game. It's our future!

re: The Tale of Two Debates

stryk55 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:59:49 GMT

By the way...CONSERVATIVES WHO YELL IN THEIR POSTS are quite ignorant to the basic rules of "netiquette" as its called. If you don't know how to adequately operate the punctuation and shift keys on your keyboards, perhaps you should seek out an activity more suited to your skill level, such as door mat or paper weight.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

richardcheese — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 20:02:11 GMT

The moderator is pro-Obama? Because she's black? Ok. Say that's true (which I'm not sure). So you're saying Palin would have won otherwise?

re: The Tale of Two Debates

Earl101 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 20:08:13 GMT

In my opinion that was a well written article. I do feel that the reason there were "two debates" instead of one is because it was allowed to happen. In that respect, I am disappointed in the moderator. If she felt strongly enough that the topics she chose would paint a clearer picture of the candidates for the American people, then she should have held them to the questions, especially Palin. I kept asking myself, "Did I hear something different than Palin, do I need to rewind and hear the question over again?" because Palin kept avoiding topics that she did not know. It was very frustrating. Her "deer in the headlight" look when Biden made the Chapter 13 comment was almost comical...she shut that one down in a big hurry with her, "Let's get back to Energy" comment.

I did feel that Biden was very respectful and even though I'm sure there were moments where he was tempted to go down Palin's rabbit trails with her, he first addressed Ifill's question and then addressed Palin's comments or vice versa, but either way he answered Ifill's questions.

I for one find it very difficult to believe that our society has gotten so shallow that they will let someone with as little knowledge and understanding of the major issues of hand be considered a candidate for any office. Maybe if she were a Senator for at least four years, she could run for VP in the futures. Unfortunately, I don't think we can impeach a VP candidate, but if we could, I would be more than willing to put the process in motion.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

JferC — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 20:11:02 GMT

Oh I wish I was as intelligent as all of you Obama supporting liberals. Then I would understand why I would want him as the president of my country. I would also be able to overlook the bias reporting of the media. Everything will be better in America just as soon as Obama becomes the President though. Hang on fellow Americans!! Have no fear - Obama's on the way! Get your prayer mats ready. If anyone has any morals left at all you won't need to keep them much longer. If you decide during labor you really don't want your baby , not a problem - just leave him on the table to expire & go about your merry way. Hey, if you want to marry your lab or your canary, not a problem - go ahead! Not one thing is wrong with it. What a disgusting country we live in anymore.

Romano your breath still smells like enfamil.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

richardcheese — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 20:14:43 GMT

JferC: Are you saying McCain/Palin are moral? Are you? So as long as someone is pro-life (and usually ironically pro-war) and against gay marriage then they're moral? Your ideaology is ridiculous.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

stryk55 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 20:17:08 GMT

JferC, here are the assumptions you make in your post:

1) Obama supporters use prayer mats. Is this some sort of racist comment about Muslims? Please clarify.

2) Obama supporters are in favor of leaving babies to die on tables. As someone incapable of having a baby (I'm a man), it doesn't really apply to me, nor do I believe people actually support doing it in any case.

3) Obama supporters are in favor of matrimony with their animals. ...Ok, that's just weird.

So to sum it up: a comment about Muslims, a "joke" (I think) about killing babies, and a beastiality implication. Wow...

re: The Tale of Two Debates

deacon1954 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 20:20:39 GMT

If we do not put term limits in, and clean house nothing will change. Obama, McCain and Biden are all part of the problem. We need to pray that one day this country will be " One Nation Under GOD ", instead of everyman for himself.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

lordmi — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 20:36:55 GMT

this debate for poor creature Sarah allower her to blah-blah-blah in pretty vulgar manner.

And do not tell me that was "a language for folks" . Folks from deep-deep country places still do know manners and would not perform with vulgar grimace in any public place, any meeting, bank,.

They do know the place.

This woman is a Caricature on women with her all over troubled family, that she can not and do not want to handle.

This woman is a Caricature on Human Being with her lack of brains and disability to think, just repeating phrases like Parrot

This woman is a Caricature on Politican figure with lack of knowledge, manners , style.

That is just an image for us to relax with Tina .

And this Disgrace for America to have this Moron on the ticket.

Disgrace for generations to come.

She just proved that.

Thank You - Mccain will sink with this "nature's gift" more and more.

Just 1 month is left and we will rid of this crap.

Forever.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

fireflies — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 20:44:52 GMT

Richardcheese. Don't act ignorant/dumb. You know Gwen Ifill wrote a book about Obama titled "Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama" where she expresses admiration for Obama. It is schedule to be released Jan. 20,2009. Don't tell me you you have no idea.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

mtsosie — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 20:58:36 GMT

It is sad for me to believe that anyone would think that Sarah Palin is even remotely qualified to be Vice President to the strongest nation in the world. I am a woman and all for women's rights and all that jazz but above anything I have my duty to this country. This woman is simply not qualified no matter how anyone wants to paint her. She obviously memorized what she was spoonfed at the debate camps. But when she showed what everyone else calls "spunk", her real degenerate self became transparent. "Joe sixpack"? "Ya'll"? Winking at the camera? What kind of nonsense is that?

Biden on the other hand was well spoken, informed and all around intelligent. That is what we need for the America I love. Now I know why Obama chose this man. Obama more than anyone knows his own weaknesses. He knows that Biden complements him. This makes me realize now more than ever that an America under the leadership of these two men will raise our country to new heights in every respect.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

richardcheese — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:04:06 GMT

I honestly did forget about her book. Thanks for reminding me. Palin still confirmed the fact that she has no place this race. John McCain could've chosen from several other women, women who are smart, articulate, informed, and dare I say...honest. All from within his own party. Instead he chose Palin. All you Republicans should be furious.

You are correct in saying the media is obviously pro-Obama. I have to admit if I were a Republican, I'd be pissed and railing about how unfair it is. But I'm not. And I agree with them. I understand why they feel the way they do. I understand why they promote Obama and not McCain, even at the cost of objectivity.

re: The Tale of Two Debates

cani77 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:09:41 GMT

In a few weeks we will make a choice that will decide our future.

I follow an economist named Bob Proctor. He has called the top and bottom of every market crash since the 70s correctly.

Also, he perfectly predicted the current real estate market meltdown and the picture he paints about what will happen in the next couple years

is terrifying.He thinks it will be worse then the great depression.

The banks in the U.S. are going under one after the other. Countrywide the largest morgage bank in the world,Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch which are 3 out of the top 5 wall street firms. Also, Fanny and Freddy Mae which hold 50 percent of the home loans in the United States.

The government took them over because they are essentially bankrupt.If they didn't the entire financially system would virtually shut down, the stock market would crash and we would suffer beyond what any of us have seen before.

McCain just like Bush " doesn't understand the economy".

That not just my opinion its his own words. Not only does he not understand how to fix it but he does not understand exactly what is broken.

It is no surprise that he doesn't. The people that make up these securities use complex mathematical models very few people understand.

Bush and McCain both can take the credit for this mess since they helped deregulate the laws that were protecting us.

Bush's economic advisor Phil Graham wrote the deregulation bill that allowed banks to take huge risks with all of our future.

Now, Phil Graham is the head of McCain's economic policy.He is also McCain's choice for the next secretary of the treasury.

No one in this country can afford for that to happen. The last time Bush met with his economic advisors was in March. He either didn't care or didn't realize that anything was wrong. Phil Graham had the guts to say that we are in a mental recession after he helped create the worst economy meltdown in our lifetime.

It will take the best and brightest minds in the world to get us out of this nightmare. As bad as Bush has done, McCain would be

even more destructive because things are in much worse shape. The next president will not inherit a surplus like Bush did but a tanking economy and a 11,600,000,000,000 (trillion) dollars deficit.Bush created a national debt larger then the first 42 presidents combined

If you do what you have always done then you will get what you have always got.

When it comes to policy Bush and McCain are the same 90 percent of the time.

So why are the polls even close then ?

The chairman of McCains campaign recently said that people don't vote on issues they vote on a personality composite. Which means he is trying to sell you personality instead of results.

Let's teach him we are smarter than that .

31 states are voting now, dont wait

Elect Obama Biden 2008

Check out this video of sarah palins interview before you vote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r36Xc0GG4iQ

re: The Tale of Two Debates

cani77 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:09:50 GMT