The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

re: McCain v. Obama, Round Two: Status Quo in Nashville

PulSamsara — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 05:50:06 GMT

"That One" for President of the UNITED States of America !

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

BoogieStik — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 07:20:49 GMT

After seeing McCain and Obama head to head two times now a picture is becoming clear.

Want to know why McCain has adopted Clint Eastwood’s ‘man of few words’, anti-diplomacy policy of “bomb first and ask questions later?” It’s partly because McCain doesn’t present himself well---not in a manner befitting an American President--and he knows it.

Imagine yourself a foreign leader who is called upon by Barack Obama or John McCain. In Obama’s case, you may not agree with what the man has to say, but at least he comes across as befits a dignitary of his stature. Calm, mature, self-assured, not easily rattled.

In the case of John McCain, you find yourself asking yourself, “Who IS this clown?”.

Recognition of this reality, consciously or not, is why Obama keeps winning these debates so decisively in the public’s eye despite not doing so in the view of many so-called “experts”.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

ik.nha.tun@gmail.com — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 09:05:09 GMT

From "Fact of the Matter"

http://www.need4trth.blogspot.com

I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO START THIS.....

Tom Brokaw was definitely the wrong pick for the Moderator. He allowed John McCain, in what I believe was a concerted effort, to speak outright lies about Obama's voting record and some of Obama's policies, go unchallenged. He didn't, as the moderator, dispute these well known lies and false claims, nor did he allow Senator Obama to challenge the false McCain statements.

Brokaw allowed this biased latitude for McCain to occur on three different occasions until Senator Obama finally told Brokaw this, "I'm sorry Tom but there's a lot of this stuff out there...." Stuff meaning LIES AND SMEARS, by McCain. Obama successfully defended himself, and respectfully put McCain in his place, and McCain tried to throw a low blow, yet as Phil Collin's once sang, "...did I miss again, how did I miss again oh oh..."

My opinion of Tom Brokaw has lessened. He is obviously in the REPUBLICAN TANK. As an Expert Moderator he failed to do the 'CIVIC DUTY' of a journalist, too challenge a PROVEN LIE or allow Senator Obama rebuttal against obvious lies. This inaction and disallowing by Brokaw seemed a concerted effort of Corporate Media favoritism of John McCain in action. I felt in spirit that Brokaw was blatantly taking sides. I'm not God so I can't say for sure. Yet, even though he possibly tried to aide McCain on those three occasions, for McCain it obviously wasn't enough. He later took a jab at Brokaw by saying, "It sure won't be you Tom", in his answer to the question who would they choose for the position of Secretary of the Treasury.

McCain demonstrated anger and aggression. John McCain "appears" bitter because he is losing in the polls, and HATEFUL because it is Barack Obama who is proving to be John McCain's BETTER. McCain is demonstrating the mindset of someone who knows he went about his plan wrong and now he is paying for it. Can Somebody say, "LOOOSEERRRR!!!!!"

JOHN MCCAINS WAR CONTINUUM RESURFACED TONITE.....

Once again McCain begin to trumpet the supposed winning strategy of the surge as the new war strategy against those whom would stand in McCains America's way. The Warmonger unleashed his list of experience in, 'knowing how to win wars'....

FIRST LET'S DO A LITTLE FACT CHECKING FROM FACTCHECK THE WIRE

Counting Errors

McCain said that Obama had voted 94 times for higher taxes or against tax cuts. He’s getting warmer — the first time we dinged him for this one, he said Obama voted 94 times to increase taxes, which is way off. This is still misleading, though. The real breakdown includes: 23 votes against tax cuts (which would have produced no increase in taxes); seven votes that would have lowered taxes for most people, but increased taxes on a few; 11 votes that would have increased taxes on those making over $1 million a year. The majority of the 94 votes (53 of them, including some of the above) were on budget measures, not tax bills, and would not have resulted in any tax change. Four other votes were non-binding motions related to conference report negotiations.

Obama, in turn, repeated the claim that McCain voted 23 times against alternative energy. We found that only 11 of those votes would have reduced or eliminated incentives for alternative energy. The rest opposed creating or enforcing alternative energy.

Conclusion, they were both off some yet, McCain was, continuing, if you will, too PROPORT LIES. Let's look at another one...

Oversimplifying the Fiscal Crisis

It’s finger-pointing time again, with each candidates blaming the other for the financial crisis. McCain called Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac the “catalyst” for the crisis and blamed Obama for failing to sign on to a bill to reign in the FMs. Obama countered that it’s a culture of deregulation and lack of oversight that caused the problem.

We’ve been here before. Both candidates have a point: Democrats really have fought regulation of the FMs and McCain has in fact been in favor of deregulation.

Yet, McCain's campaign manager up until a month ago was still on the payroll of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. McCain in this argument has no argument. He is one of the main author's of deregulation.

These are just a few of the issues they are not quite correct on. Yet, the greatest aggressor of the SMEAR, FEAR, and LIES CAMPAIGN is THE PUPPETED MOUTHPIECE OF THE RNC campaign McCain90%w/Bush/Palin.

ONE MORE FACT CHECK FROM FACTCHECK THE WIRE....

Health Care Fines for Small Businesses?

McCain said that Obama’s health care plan would mandate that “small businesses” provide coverage for their employees and would fine them if they failed to do so. Actually, Obama’s health care plan, posted on his Web site, says: “Small businesses will be exempt from this requirement.” McCain previously used this charge in his acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

TomTraubert — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:38:32 GMT

I disagree. McCain had the rambling, nonsensical answer on humanitarian intervention, and Obama had the reasoned answer. Perhaps you misheard, or perhaps you are guilty of false equivalence. Here, read what they both said, and reconsider your original thoughts. OF course neither one of them addressed the reality of Darfur, which is the intractability of the UN and the role of China in the conflict.

OBAMA:

"Now, Sen. McCain and I do agree, this is the greatest nation on earth. We are a force of good in the world. But there has never been a nation in the history of the world that saw its economy decline and maintained its military superiority.

And the strains that have been placed on our alliances around the world and the respect that's been diminished over the last eight years has constrained us being able to act on something like the genocide in Darfur, because we don't have the resources or the allies to do everything that we should be doing."

and also:

OBAMA:

"If we could have intervened effectively in the Holocaust, who among us would say that we had a moral obligation not to go in?

If we could've stopped Rwanda, surely, if we had the ability, that would be something that we would have to strongly consider and act.

So when genocide is happening, when ethnic cleansing is happening somewhere around the world and we stand idly by, that diminishes us.

And so I do believe that we have to consider it as part of our interests, our national interests, in intervening where possible.

But understand that there's a lot of cruelty around the world. We're not going to be able to be everywhere all the time. That's why it's so important for us to be able to work in concert with our allies.

Let's take the example of Darfur just for a moment. Right now there's a peacekeeping force that has been set up and we have African Union troops in Darfur to stop a genocide that has killed hundreds of thousands of people.

We could be providing logistical support, setting up a no-fly zone at relatively little cost to us, but we can only do it if we can help mobilize the international community and lead. And that's what I intend to do when I'm president."

whereas McCain rambled

MCCAIN

"And that question can only be answered by someone with the knowledge and experience and the judgment, the judgment to know when our national security is not only at risk, but where the United States of America can make a difference in preventing genocide, in preventing the spread of terrorism, in doing the things that the United States has done, not always well, but we've done because we're a nation of good."

and

MCCAIN

"The United States of America, Tom, is the greatest force for good, as I said. And we must do whatever we can to prevent genocide, whatever we can to prevent these terrible calamities that we have said never again.

But it also has to be tempered with our ability to beneficially affect the situation. That requires a cool hand at the tiller. This requires a person who understands what our -- the limits of our capability are.

We went in to Somalia as a peacemaking organization, we ended up trying to be -- excuse me, as a peacekeeping organization, we ended up trying to be peacemakers and we ended up having to withdraw in humiliation.

In Lebanon, I stood up to President Reagan, my hero, and said, if we send Marines in there, how can we possibly beneficially affect this situation? And said we shouldn't. Unfortunately, almost 300 brave young Marines were killed.

So you have to temper your decisions with the ability to beneficially affect the situation and realize you're sending America's most precious asset, American blood, into harm's way. And, again, I know those situations.

I've been in them all my life. And I can tell you right now the security of your young men and women who are serving in the military are my first priority right after our nation's security.

And I may have to make those tough decisions. But I won't take them lightly. And I understand that we have to say never again to a Holocaust and never again to Rwanda. But we had also better be darn sure we don't leave and make the situation wors"

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

i+mark — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 12:50:47 GMT

i think McCain won yesterday. Obama was all over the place. he did not answer the questions taht were asked. He did a good job on Health care but that is about it. He was just rambling on about stuff and did not answer the questions. such as social security and others. Obama is the one who lost! He would make a bad president. His spending plan is going to rewn the middle class. If he is going to tax the rich people well we as middle class people depend on the rich ot provide companies and jobs for us. if he raises their taxes they will stop hiring and eventually go out of buiness them selves for they will not be able to afford it. if obama wins our counrty is in for a huge awakening and not a good one either.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Ilar — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:09:07 GMT

John McCain looked angry, confused, and had all the right wing talking points down pat. He could not call Obama by his name, and that was rude, he called him "That One" but then he is an old grouch, and his predjudice against ablacks came through loud and clear. Obama had his talking points down pat also, but he did not show anger, nor did he show disdain for McCain as I do.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

rexibew — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:19:25 GMT

McCain's surprise comment on buying up mortgages was interesting, overlooking that it's already in the Bill - Obama could have pointed out that FDR did this after Hoover's Republican plan of saving the banks and rich folks first failed. For someone who has been with the party that has been trying to dismantle the New Deal for years, I find it interesting to see McCain turning to New Deal principles so quickly - I sure wish Obama would have pointed this out.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

chevychick1983 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:41:47 GMT

Obama won all the online polls because his specific draw of voters come from people of the X & Y Generation, thus means that they know how to work a computer and spend a fair amount of time on the internet. Thus the reason that Obama wins all of the debate online polls. Also, those polls are not 100% accurate. If I wanted to change my IP and vote for John McCain or Barack Obama a million times, I could do that. All that really matters is where I put my vote on election day. More of the older Generation is pulling for McCain - whom of the majority don't spend their nights surfing the web and voting in online debate polls.

Remember that Ron Paul won all the Republican debate online polls and where is he now? That's right, he's dropped out. Just goes to show you how heavily inflated and fake that those polls are.

My advice, don't rely on those polls to see who is really winning. Talk to people around you and get a good sense of how people feel about their candidates and their views on the issues. Then make your own decision.

I, for one, am giving my vote to John McCain and so is everyone on my street...and so is everyone in my family. And guess what? They didn't vote in any of the online polls last night. And "yes" I asked them out of curiosity.

The last thing is: John McCain is not another Bush - he wants to reform the Republican party. Bush - no he's not a Republican, Bush is in a party of his own; The Bush Party. He's created a whole new political party without even trying. Bush does NOT act like a Republican at all.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

mhaldeman — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:46:05 GMT

IT WAS OBVIOUS EVEN TO ME-AND I AM CERTAINLY NO EXPERT ON THE POLITICAL PROCESS-MCCAIN HAD HIS WAY WITH BROKAW. THOUGH BROKAW 'REMINDED' THE PARTIES SEVERAL TIMES THAT REPLIES WERE TO BE LIMITED TO ONE MINUTE, HE ALLOWED MCCAIN TO RAMBLE ON AND ON. I HAVE ALWAYS VOTED REPUBLICAN. MCCAIN HAS FREED ME FROM AN OLD, BAD HABIT.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

bigjimslick — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:46:59 GMT

I think it was mostly garbage from both candidates. I get the feeling NEITHER is fit to lead but I do agree that Obama won on style and confidence. I believe both men are smarter than they appear in the debates. Why are their facts and plans so vague this close to the election? Kind of scary. I think either man for pres is a huge gamble.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

TomTraubert — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:56:05 GMT

A list of McCain's whoppers courtesy of Steve Benen at Washington Monthly:

* McCain said he "left my campaign and suspended it to go back to Washington" to work on the bailout. In reality, there was never an actual suspension.

* McCain said he wants it to be "very clear" to voters: "I am not in favor of tax cuts for the wealthy." Seriously, he said that.

* McCain said, "[O]il drilling offshore now is vital so that we can bridge the gap." But this leads the voter to think coastal drilling will offer short-term benefits. It won't. Even the Bush administration and McCain's policy aides concede that we're about a decade away from new coastal drilling having any kind of effect on the marketplace.

* McCain said that Obama "wants to announce that he's going to attack Pakistan." As Obama explained very effectively last night, that's not even close to true.

* McCain said that Obama "has voted 94 times to either increase your taxes or against tax cuts." First, that's still wrong. Second, if we use McCain's standards and look at his own record, McCain has voted 477 times to either increase taxes or against tax cuts. The last time I checked, 477 is greater than 94.

And if stretch the definition of "whopper" a bit to include sins of omission, there was one other thing that bugged me. McCain said, "We went in to Somalia as a peacemaking organization, we ended up trying to be -- excuse me, as a peacekeeping organization, we ended up trying to be peacemakers and we ended up having to withdraw in humiliation." What McCain neglected to mention is that in 1993 he insisted that Congress had the power to force Clinton to begin an "immediate, orderly withdrawal from Somalia." He even introduced a measure to cut off funding for the troops while they were in harm's way, though he later changed his mind about pursuing it.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

dmspeech — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:11:17 GMT

Tom Brokaw was a horrendous moderator. The questions he selected were redundant and when he added his own they were stupid. It was obvious that he cut McCain some slack because every time he reprimanded the candidates about time constraints it was after Obama had spoken and used the same amount of time as McCain.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paulte — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:16:50 GMT

Good for McCain! An accusatory, "that one" aginst the empty suit! He's exactly right! It's just too bad due to a stupid electorate (if the polls can be believed), that we'll have to endure at leat two years of hell with an Obama - Pelosi axis sending the nation into a tailspin!

Then in the mid-term election all these Obama voters (if they materialize this election day) will be voting Republican with a vengeance!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Thankfulforvets — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:17:31 GMT

Did you ever contemplate that McCain is stiff and awkward because he served our country so you could attend Princeton and write this garbage? Have a little respect. When you sit at Starbucks with your laptop writing drivel like this, think about all of the veterans who have sacrificed and served so you can live in your towhnouse and pontificate.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

barns38600 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:31:11 GMT

Thankfulforvets has got it right. I'm by coincidence a Princeton grad, drinking coffee. But have you ever seen the photo of McCain in his dress whites on crutches being welcomed to Washington by President Nixon, after his release from captivity? If you're not filled with respect looking at that picture, seek professional help because something is seriously wrong with you.

All this being said, while I started out a McCain supporter, I simply can't stomach Sarah Palin. The desperation and willingness to take stupid risks show JM's judgment is seriously off. No one (and I mean NO one!) can question his integrity. But his judgment is certainly open to question.

I wish the ticket were McCain and Biden. I'm a registered Republican and I say that quite sincerely. However, since it is not, I am going to cross party lines and vote for Obama. I don't understand this vague concept of "maverick" anyway.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

timmyinlasvegas — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:39:28 GMT

Which candidate actually presented a plan for creating jobs and getting the economy moving. An actuall plan? I know, I am currious to see who else was acutally watching and listening to both candidates.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

wjanasie — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:41:07 GMT

you last two commenters are obviously not that bright. No self respecting Democrat would ever "vote Republican with a vengeance." Not to say they wouldn't vote Republican, but with a vengeance, c'mon. Be serious. You guys are sore losers already and it's not even November yet. Obama and Pelosi sending the nation into a tailspin? Really? They couldn't possibly do a worse job than Bush and Cheaney if they tried. You Republicans make no sense. You criticize Obama for wanting to raise taxes, yet he's never proposed a tax increase for the middle class or small businesses. Im sorry, but I'm not concerned if some stiff in a $3000 suit makin a million a year has to pay more taxes, boo hoo. I make $50,000 a year and this economy is kicking my rear end. If my life is easier cause some rich guy has to pay more taxes then I'm all for it. But you Republicans need to get your facts straight. Bullying our citizens into your ludacris ideas isn't gonna work anymore. Offering NO soultions during presidential debates won't either. If McCain wants to prove he's a reformer, then he should clean his own party up first before he wants to convince us he can clean our country up. Then maybe he can adequately run for president. Oh yeah, he'd be like 90 by that point. Guess you guys lose. But you've already conceded that. Have a nice day.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

wjanasie — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:43:40 GMT

by last two i meant thankfulforvets and paulte. sorry for any confusion

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

vqnguy — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:48:46 GMT

Dear Andrew and Newsweek editor,

Although I am not a frequent reader of Newsweek magazine, I have always associcate it to that of a more respected news magazine in circulation. However, recently, your articles and magazine has been violating the ethics of journalism. I always perceive that as a journalist, your main role is to report the facts without skewing the readers' opinion by inserting your opinions or preferences; thereby, allowing readers to reach their own conclusions. And although, I am an undecided voter, I truly believe your recent articles have exhibited a definite preference for Obama and very much against McCain. The same is with the entire tone of Newsweek. So, I have learned not to trust your facts and opinions as you have demonstrated to be a biased journalist. Therefore, my recommendation is for you to schedule a meeting with the entire Newsweek staff and editor to revise your mission and your editor should be fired for allowing such drivel as this to be published, as articles such as this have forever tarnish the image of a truly great and respected magazine.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

tmoo — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:53:55 GMT

As a Princeton grad, barns38600, I would think that you would use better criteria in choosing a candidate than not being able to "stomach Sara Palin." What about issues and policies and experience of the candidates?

The majority of what I am hearing are comments where people are basing their decision on looks and personality rather than on ability and experience. This country is becoming a shallow nation of sheep, listening to TV personalities and the news media's biases to make up their minds for them.

Wake up America! Look past the facade. Look at the candidate that has substance. Look at the candidate that truly has experience. For a country that abhors discrimination, how many voters are voting against Republicans rather than for the best candidate?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

wjanasie — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:01:45 GMT

to tmoo: since 1992 the best candidates have clearly been Democrats. It's kind of hard to not want to vote "against Republicans" We had a very strong economy under Clinton, which was later decimated by Bush. McCain doesn't offer any solutions that would lead any intelligent person to believe he can handle the task of reestablishing this country as a viable economic leader. I wasn't impressed with Kerry, though I did really like Gore, yet both of them would have at least kept the status quo(or close to it) of the direction this country was moving in under Clinton. If Reagan was running for president again, i might have to reconsider. Until then, I'm Blue all the way!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

olderwiser — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:02:41 GMT

Well, tmoo, Princeton grads can get sick just like ordinary citizens, and Palin really makes people sick, especially well educated people.

The failed policies of the present administration and the republican party are comprised of more than this blog has the capacity to take. As Emeril might say, "you all know what they are". So, we simply summarize by saying that we are sick of this crap and are voting against it and for the obviously superior policies advocated by the opposition party which offers all the "change" we can get, though we could probably stomach more than it offers through its very able candidate. Sorry we disappointed you by not listing the atrocities. Cheers.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Caleb Murdock — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:18:09 GMT

Andrew, Obama seems to be sinking in a couple polls, and the RCP average is now down to 4.7, from a high of 6.4. I'd love to read your comments about that.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:18:31 GMT

I guess all well educated people think exactly the same. What no diversity of thought in the more intelligent Americans? How boring. I am a well educated American and I like Palin, and I know many others who are well educated that feel the same. Stop making these foolish generalations. It only makes a person look less then intelligent.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

apolemic — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:23:12 GMT

vqnguy,

It's hardly Newsweek's fault that you're not hearing news that you would like to hear. The news media should not exist to dole out bland recitals of daily events and political statements without context, and I would never trust an institution lazy or reckless enough not to provide some filter. we might not have ended up in Iraq as we did had they done more of this five years ago. If you want to blame anyone for McCain's bad news, blame the candidate himself, and don't disguise your partisan annoyance with that much-abused and poorly-understood (especially now) code word "bias."

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

barns38600 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:28:59 GMT

tmoo, come on. Be real. I respect and thank John McCain. I most certainly do.

But Sarah Palin is truly a moron. You want her in the White House? You're telling me she has "policies and experience"? Put down the crack pipe. She does not know the name of a single Supreme Court case. She cannot name a newspaper that she reads. She does not know what Hamas is, or where the Gaza Strip is located. She literally doesn't!

I would rather have Hillary Clinton as veep than Sarah Palin. (Phew that was hard to say but I said it...) Palin is not *remotely* qualified for the job. Cf. Couric interviews, Charlie Gibson 'view, Charlie Rose 'view, etc. The near incitement of lynching earlier this week was truly disgusting.

However, for argument's sake, leave Palin out of it. What it says about McCain to have hastily chosen her is most problematic. Look, McCain could have won this election hands down. To use a football analogy, all he needed was a 3-yard running play and to keep control of the ball until the clock ran out. Just appoint someone with experience who's reasonably well known, and he's in the Oval Office without breathing hard. Instead, he broke out this gadget play and heaved the ball 60 yards down the field into heavy coverage. You don't DO that when you're safely ahead and confident in your ability. Anyone who does is simply not my choice to have his finger on The Button.

tmoo, I do not for a second disagree that McCain has more substance and experience than Obama. Unfortunately, I think this is a perfect demonstration of what a "Ready, Fire, Aim" strategy gets you.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

LB in denver — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:29:29 GMT

it seems to me that we as taxpayers will pay for this financial crisis, with or without the "bailout/rescue package"...we either foot the bill for the loan or we struggle through the mess whilst the financial institutions play survival of the fittest.

whomever wins the role of president will have to wrangle with congress to make any of the plans they have in pocket come to fruition, and that will not be an easy task. people want to hear that the candidates have actually contemplated these issues and are trying, in the current setting, to come up with some real answers. however it seems to me that obama actually has some plans, real plans which he is outlining in these appearances. not plans that he will unveil later.

i am aware that these plans are subject to change - as any candidates' will be - because actually sitting in the oval office, working with congress, being truly "on the job", will be very different than waiting outside of the door, speculating and strategizing.

but when it comes down to it, my impression of mccain is one of a passionate and intelligent man, a man who is good at "off the cuff", a charismatic man who cares deeply for america and its people - a man who would make a great neighbor.

yet i believe that we need a man who is indeed intelligent, but who is not afraid to be thoughtful, and is to every extent a professional. professional in composure, professional in strategy, professional in conduct, professional in patriotism.

i am not saying that either one of these gentlemen is an angel. nor am i implying that neither has had their indiscretions. after all, they are human. and they are politicians.

so in trying to weed through all of the election spindoctoring, and mudslinging, and find an objective baseline: what i hope for this country is to elect a person into office who has a real, credible offer for direction; who will strengthen our global position in respectful and responsible ways; and work tirelessly to help heal - not divide and alienate - this country and the american people. we need a man of wisdom and leadership and hope for the future. that patriotic optimism is crucial to our success, now and in the future. we need to come together to get through this, as americans have proven time and time again that they can.

i feel that mccain will serve diligently, tirelessly - but unfortunately, i do not see him leaving this country and the world more unified than before, but rather less so. he does not carry himself with the level of professionalism that i think is needed for this job. he keeps saying "bypartisanship", but neither his actions nor his words back up that claim at all, but rather just the opposite.

i believe that the person who has the skills to lead this country forward and to a better position, the wisdom to do this, the patriotism to do this, the professionalism to do this - is barack obama.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

starwatcher777 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:36:51 GMT

As an undecided voter I would say that the debate was a Tie. As far as the polls go, I do not think online polls are very accurate as they most likely will draw more of Mr. Obama's demographic (Young).

All in all I feel somewhat disappointed by both candidates, neither have given much details to their plans, only broad ideology. The devil is in the details. Let us hope America votes on what little substance each candidate has given...America voted for style over substance for Mr. Bush, and look where that has gotten us,.

Another thing I am growing more and more concerned about is the lack of understanding

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:38:00 GMT

Dear Vqnguy,

Newsweek has been publishing articles as unbiased as is possible. Because it does not coincide with your political views does not make it drivel.

The magazine's charge is to bring you their analysis of recent events, in this case the debate. Can you blame them for highlighting moments and quotes that, in sum, point towards an advantage for one of the two participants in the debate? There has to be a tipping point, an edge one way or another. Would you rather have the magazine say that the debates are tied in their analysis? It'd be simple, unbiased, but wouldn't give any reader any facts with which to draw their own conclusions as you so desperately call for.

The points that McCain made which were in his favor and not Obama's are clearly recounted in this and many articles on Newsweek, there were just simply more credit points that Obama scored last night.

My own conclusion is that it is McCain's fault that Newsweek cannot say enough good things about him, and it is to Obama's credit that he had the advantage in last night's debate. It is unfair to ask a magazine to lay out the facts of the debate, then call it a draw.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:39:55 GMT

LB, very well-written, logical post, thanks for that.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:41:33 GMT

I think Palin should be cut a break on the Supreme Court question. How many of us when ask a question go blank then a few minutes later remember the answer. I know I have. When your dealing with all the issues that the campaign is reviewing with her it would be understandable. Maybe we should give each other a break more often. It might just be a more pleasant world. Or is this thought just too "hopeful".

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

vstillwell — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:47:43 GMT

Is it me or do these Republican rallies taking place over the last week sound like some old rallies that used to happen in the south with burning crosses.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:47:59 GMT

Zedcar35, You conclude that Newsweek is unbiased because you agree with what they write. I conclude that most of what they write is partisan drivel. You think Obama's points were great. I was unimpressed and bored. I would really rather have a magazine that shows both points of view and lets the reader decide for themselves. This is called journalism. This would probably be too radical of a point of view for you.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

benluclar — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:51:38 GMT

I would like to know why nothing is discussed on Newsweek forums about the voter fraud going on by the Obama campaign.

Is this election so sewn up by this charlatan that it is not even worth mentioning?

This person cannot be stopped because he has been a PLANT from the beginning. I have never been so disgusted with American politics in my life and that is a very long time.

FIXED ELECTION. FRAUD REGISTRATION. Hear this people? FRAUD!!!!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

starwatcher777 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:52:16 GMT

Another thing that I have become somewhat anxious about, is the general lack of understanding for technical subjects. It somewhat saddens me that I as some college student nobody probably have a deeper understanding of scientific subjects then either of the candidates. Neither candidate goes into any depth whatsoever into subjects that would require technical knowledge, I fear its because they do not want to show their ignorance.

Somehow I doubt either candidate would be knowledgeable over even simple subjects like impedance matching, Energy densities of different Bio-Fuels, disease vectors, etc.

Considering Scientific Progression and technological innovation are the single biggest deciding factor on a country's level of prosperity, should we as America demand are candidates to be more informed?

P.S.

I hope Sarah Palin being a creationist is liberal propaganda. Anyone who spouts something like creationism is admitting that they are letting their ideology distort their perception of reality to an alarming degree.

I for one find someone like that in a position of power to be a very frightening thing.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

richardcheese — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:52:48 GMT

Pathetic. You want to cry fixed election now? Where were you during the last 2?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

And the beat goes on — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:53:11 GMT

The only thing that John McCain has going in his favor right now is sympathy from his own people.It serves him and his creepy cohorts right for bringing Sarah Palin in for more votes and nothing else.If you really pay attention to it John's whole posse is only in the news because they are the ones making the news.They have no sense of direction or true focus of attacks.Its almost as though they write a bunch of topics on flash cards and throw them up in the air and the first one to fall face up is a chosen method of attacks.I mean c'mon connecting Obama to terrorists when he was only eight.Connecting him to Britney and Paris.John McCain's sense of direction is about as stiff as his body and shame on his teammates for decieving him into believing that with this tactic or stra-er- straight talk he would be able to win this election.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

demslikesmartpres — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:55:20 GMT

It is also journalistic to write an article expressing your opinion. Normally, when you see two points of view expressed they are written by two different people. Clearly Andrew Romono is analyzing how he thinks the debate went and is thereby giving his own point of view. If you want an unbiased play by play go read the transcript. And if you are looking for someone to say that McCain "won" go read another article not bash this one. Who are y'all to tell someone that their article is not journalistic???

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:57:30 GMT

Seems like it is too radical for me I guess...I do believe the magazine gave McCain credit when it was due, and I'm glad you took my last post so far as to use it to fully determine my level of radicalocity. I never said Obama's points were great in my last post, I said this magazine gave him credit where he was due as they did McCain.

I hate to say it more and more every day, but I was a registered Dem who was pulling for McCain last time around. In my honest opinion the positives stack up MUCH higher against the negatives for Barack Obama than they do for McCain, plain and simple. I increasingly can't stand McCain's entire approach to this election; his swaggar, his general disconcern for his opponent.

Thanks for giving me a break, things really do seem more pleasant.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

sixboys — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:57:32 GMT

I think that we all should consider that both canidates are not so bright. But becasuse of our system we have no other choose but to pick one of them.....All I see is that we will all be hurting when either one takes office....

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

richardcheese — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:57:49 GMT

Wake up Republicans! There's a world-wide recession because of your lies and greed! You will lose the next election despite your pathetic last-ditch efforts of smear and diversion. We are tired of your agenda. Go away.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

benluclar — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:59:02 GMT

Obama does not represent hope, he OOZES with EXPECTATION.

Keeping calm can also be interpreted as ARROGANT EXPECTATION.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

benluclar — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:00:00 GMT

richardcheese..... go stand in your welfare line then while Obama hands out the FREE CHEESE

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:03:14 GMT

richard cheese - MSNBC was discussing this morning how the democrats made excuses for fannie mae & freddie mac when the republicans attempted to warn them. There is blame on both sides. I am tired of the boorish partisanship. Why don't you go away. What a bore.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:03:49 GMT

Keeping calm is better than flying off the handle and shouting the list of your top 5 countries to bomb.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:06:51 GMT

wow...paproudmom, you are calling for peace then lighting the fuse, gotta love it.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

ShawnTX — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:09:23 GMT

wooooooooooo hell yeah b1tches

Obama/Biden 08

From the calming voices of the younger generation. Scary huh?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

richardcheese — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:11:15 GMT

very astute, ben. But no, I won't need to stand in a welfare line. Unless McCain somehow wins. Then the war (in Iraq) continues indefinitely, our foreign relations continue to be nonexistent or even insulting to the rest of the world, the deficit races out of comprehension, our schools continue to falter, the rich get richer, the middle class disappears, our teetering health care system becomes far more inefficient and deformed, our dependence on foreign oil is exacerbated and our country goes down the toilet. At least we'll have a "maverick/joe six-pack/washington outsider".

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:11:32 GMT

Just telling it like I see it Zedcar35. That's what makes this country great. I gotta love that!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:13:24 GMT

ShawnTX: The immature younger generation is not scary. Trying living a while. Then maybe you can be scary.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Lillylee — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:14:20 GMT

I am set on retirement in 6 years. McCain said I can't expect the same social security check of 650. a month and I will have to work longer to support myself .I have had rheumotoid arthritis for 20 years. I take good care of my health. I am lucky. How much longer can I work is in question. Thanks McCain, you are set for life and the rest of us working elderly working slobs will be forced to keep on working.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

richardcheese — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:14:52 GMT

Partisanship is a very unfortunate fact of America, dear. You're just as guilty as I. Yes there is plenty of blame for both parties. But only one lied to America and took us to war in Iraq, which has cost us numerous lives, respect and um, about $700 BILLION.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:16:45 GMT

Oh I love it too, you can tell it like you see it all you want, but then when something someone else does pisses you off, you can directly negate exactly what it was you were saying in the first place.

it's quite respectable, and exactly what I see happening if your guy gets elected.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:18:22 GMT

richardcheese: I am not your "dear". Last time I looked the democrats also voted to go into Iraq. Which was handled very badly, but now may actually turn out ok. Which would be a good thing for America right?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:21:36 GMT

The bill passed, so of course some democrats voted for Iraq. Whoever voted for the war back then is not the issue anymore, my scary dear.

The issue now is that we are NOT winning in Iraq, lives are being lost, and we need to get out.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:21:41 GMT

Zedcar35. Don't worry you did not piss me off. It takes a tad bit more to ruffle my feathers.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:24:06 GMT

There are varying degrees, I think your defensiveness towards the dears and dems out here would signify a feather or two out of place.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

sportlock009 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:25:15 GMT

Well folks, for the first time Newsweek actually comes right out and says it.

For McCain to "win," Obama would've had to slip on a banana peel during one of his ambles--whether rhetorical or actual. He didn't come close.

No matter how well McCain did in the debates, for McCain to "win" Obama would've had to slip on a banana peel LMAO

Way to go Newsweek, yet another "unbiased" report. And you wonder why the National Enquirer was rated a better resource for unbiased information then newsweek.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

ShawnTX — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:26:25 GMT

With only two Democratic presidencies in the past four decades inequality hasn't been higher then anytime in history. The top 1% of the population controls 20% of the wealth. In 1980 it was only at 8%. Thanks Reagan with your trickle down economics, because it sure trickled down to a crawl. The last time we had this much inequality was in 1929 and we know what happened afterwards. Obama is the change we need. We need to give back to the middle class, because the middle class is who drives the economy, not the super wealthy.

Obama/Biden 08

No bias here.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

richardcheese — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:27:36 GMT

It may now actually turn out ok, meaning what? we only have to pay so many more American lives and countless billions of dollars and acheive what? Peace in the middle east? Victory? More oil? Respect? What?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:27:53 GMT

Zedcar35 - if it amuses you to think so.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Anticrisis — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:28:41 GMT

tick - tock - tick - tock - tick

McCain had really only this debate to show he could rise to the occasion - there's one left but it will be more of a case of trying to keep his head held high instead of 'I'm here to turn this around'. Given the chance in the setting he is best with, he couldn't follow through - is this the strength he would bring if he were facing Putin or Ahmadinejad? - he'd get outsmarted and trampled.

The guy is showing the he's a follower, a reactor - and when it's time to bring 'game' - he's got none.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

tmoo — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:29:04 GMT

Wjanasie and OlderWiser, what this country is experiencing started during the Democratic reign of Clinton, et.al. It has just so happened that Bush inherited what was to take place anyway. Surely, since these things would come to pass anyway, another Democrat in office would have handled the situations differently--and, likewise, things would have been handled differently had a DIFFERENT Republican been in office.

The point is, the party does not make the man; the man makes the party. I would much prefer a more experienced, serious, candidate that knows what he is doing, over a smiling jack who's goal is to learn while on the job. His pet word "change" is not synonomous with "good." Give me a maverick!

For those needing the definition of maverick: "...one that refuses to abide by the dictates of or resists adherence to a group." The American Heritage Dictionary, Third Edition

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

richardcheese — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:29:40 GMT

Unbiased meaning I guess Unfactual?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:30:32 GMT

Paproudmom, don't worry about me worrying - i will worry until November 4 about the chance that McCain has a shot at being elected.

He is coarse, rude, unrelatable to those below 70 years of age, and has not given any substantial policy changes that make it from one speech to another, they keep changing. The rhetoric stays the same, it's all attacks and some level of reassurance that America and it's people are the greatest.

Barack has shown class in the face of unsubstantiated attacks that are just words thrown around for the sake of throwing them in the hope that someone will place a vote in the claim. He shows leadership, no matter the amount of experience he has, he can think on his feet which is important when in talks with other world leaders, and his statements are much more coherent and logical on a much more consistent basis than McCain's.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

sportlock009 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:31:52 GMT

Most significant proof that Obama routinely offers bad advise and poor judgement. I just filled up today at $3.13 a gallon this morning. Obama told me no more then 3 months ago allowing offshore drilling would have no impact on gas prices for 10 yrs. At the time he made this statement, gas was $4.20 a gallon. Way to go senator! Was that a mis-statement?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

tiredoflies — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:32:46 GMT

Sorry McCain:

I know this my friends ... I know that my friends ... Just does NOT cut it!

If you know it then say and show it with knowledge and deeds.

That he is NOT able to do.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

richardcheese — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:33:22 GMT

Keep blaming Clinton and then cry "Partisasanship-Foul!!" if I mention Bush/Cheney.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:34:08 GMT

richard cheese: Peace, better quality of life for Iraqi people, especially the Iraqi women, stability in the region etc. I am not worried about the oil. The lives we have lost should be for something much more substantial then oil or money. Time will tell whether these things can come to pass. Just my opinion.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:34:11 GMT

maverick maverick maverick...what does it mean?! to side with the president on 4 out of 5 important votes?? give me an agreement ratio of less than half on ANY of the important votes over the last few and i'll give him maverick credit.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:35:07 GMT

sportlock, please remember that there are other economic factors affecting the gas price you see today versus what you saw months ago.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

tiredoflies — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:35:14 GMT

Sorry sportlock009, but off shore drilling has NOTHING to do with what you paid for fuel today.

Go take macroeconomics 101 and learn something.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

amandawp — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:36:38 GMT

question: how can you claim to be a maverick if you vote with the president 91% of the time? as mccain states "i will let my record speak for itself" it speaks load and clear and it sounds a lot like BUSH

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

ShawnTX — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:40:51 GMT

"Unbiased meaning I guess Unfactual?"

Unbiased statement was meant as a joke, and i got my info from Robert Rubin. Take it up with a former secretary of Treasury that actually did something if you don't believe me. Or maybe offer more of a rebuttal then calling my statement " unfactual ". Trickle down economics doesn't work as evident by the past eight years. Tax cuts does nothing for the economy, but put money into the pockets of people that don't need it.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:41:21 GMT

ShawnTX - you seem so concerned that wealthier americans are not paying their fair share of the taxes. In 2006 the top one % paid 39.89% of the taxes. The top five % paid 60.14%. The top ten% paid 76.79. The top 25 % paid 96.27% and the top 50% paid 97.01 of the taxes. In reality then, the bottom 50 % paid about 2.99 of the taxes. Where is the inequity. Many of the top 50% work very hard. Many are small business owners,

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

richardcheese — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:43:01 GMT

paproudmom- I wish your dreamy idealistic fantasy were ever possible. I really do.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

demslikesmartpres — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:43:43 GMT

Zedcar35 you are holding down the fort!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

richardcheese — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:44:54 GMT

ShawnTx you must have mistakenly thought I was responding to you. I couldn't agree more.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

suzvoter47 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:44:57 GMT

tmoo: Your bias is so clear to see... Bush put this country into a war in Iraq that was shoved down the people's throats and Congress too with misinformation and lies. It has now cost our country billions of doallrs to keep this war going....This is one main reason for a fiancial decline. Yes the Clinton era wanted to see home ownership increase, lets look at policy... During the early to mid 1990s I purchased my first home. I was required to have a minimum of 10 percent down ans had to pay PMI insurance to insure the loan should I default. I also was rquired to prove I was working and not in debt either.

Now lets look at 2006 a very young couple bought my home with an 80/20 loan. Therefore, when I sold my home thw new owners put zero down and rolled the closing costs into the mortgage. No PMI required because monies for the home came from two seperate accounts. Therefore higher risk.

When I went on to purchase my new home I still put 20 percent down as that is what is called smart investing.

These types of loans were not available during the times I have purchased homes until after Bush came into office. That MY Friends is called deregulation and it occurred primarily with the Bush Admin. It has now come home to roost , also do not foget before any of this occurred McCain with others (Keating 5) pushed through deregulation of the Savings and Loan industry which ended up causing thousands of people to loose their life savings or have their assets frozen for up to3 years due to the S & L scandal. McCain as a republican was censured by the house and he would have faired less well except the house was run by the Repubs . So before you call him a Mavericak do your homework. He has time and time agin played the system as he had little to loose. But we as Americans have alot to loose, Enough of the nonsense that got us here in the first place.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Wood7ard — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:46:33 GMT

When you look at the polls on MSN and other sites. Obama is the clear winner because he is saying what most Americans need and want. We are sick of the rich getting richer while the poor are struggling just to pay basic bills. There was a very clear winner and this morning many sites took the polls off because they did not want people to see how people are voting. This includes Newsweek who is downplaying what was clearly a victory for Barrack Obama. We do not need a knock out. We need to know who has the message most want to hear and the polls show who that is. KUDOs to MSN who still has the poll on their site and POO to Yahoo.com who removed theirs because clearly their candidate choice is not the one in the lead. We can tell clearly who each magazine is for by not showing the polls from the people and expressing their own views by not telling the clear truth about the debate and trying to downplay Barack Obama's clear win. The score should not have been B+ for Obama and B- for McCain. It should have been A for Obama and C+ for McCain truthfully. You can see this by the polls. Lets be honest. Americans are tired of the games we have been getting from the Republicans. TooTiredoftheSame

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:47:47 GMT

richardcheese: I was watching MSNBC - Morning Joe. They were interviewing a gentlemen this morning, (can't remember his name). Who did believe this in time was possible. He actually spent much time in Iraq and seemed to be well respected by the MSNBC staff. So maybe my dreamy idealistic fantasy is shared by others. I really "hope" so.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

starwatcher777 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:49:42 GMT

Somehow I doubt either candidate would be knowledgeable over even simple subjects like impedance matching, Energy densities of different Bio-Fuels, disease vectors, etc.

P.S.

I for one find someone like that in a position of power to be a very frightening thing.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:50:31 GMT

ShawnTX: the top 25% should be 86.27 not 96.27.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

demslikesmartpres — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:51:44 GMT

I have talked to my conservative/republican friends...the argument they present about the taxes is that having a progressive tax is socialism or communism...whichever. They suggest having a tax rate that is set across the board. If this is your stance then the main issue is that to fund the government and the debt we would have to take alot of money from alot of people who don't have ANY money to spare. For example a 30% tax from everyone will not be enough. The amount would have to be set much higher especially with the current national debt. In the interest of starting a dialogue across the aisle (look at my bipartisanship :D vote for me!) paproudmom how do you suggest we address this issue?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

RiversideWarrior — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:54:07 GMT

I think I'm going to take "That One" over McGrumpy to solve our country's economic and social problems. Palin at least can get a job with Tina Fey on SNL.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:54:15 GMT

so can somebody please explain to me why I went to school for years (I thought to get a good job), and got a good job, and work hard every day (and many nights and weekends) to be able to make a lot of money (which I thought would be nice for my family); and I use less government resources than my friends who make less - but yet I already pay a higher percentage of taxes on a higher amount - and I am supposed to be ok with someone telling me that I make so much money that I should be happy to give it to the government to pay for health care and services for those who choose careers that make less money, or don't work at all. If businesses have to pay more taxes, they will have less money to hire people, and there will be fewer jobs, so people will need more government money to survive..... somebody please help me with the rationale here... people who make the most money frequently are the ones who worked the hardest to get where they are, and continue to work harder - so maybe all of the high $ earners should just quit, companies should just close their doors, and Uncle Sam and Mr. Obama can support us. At least apparently we'll have health care

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

demslikesmartpres — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:58:48 GMT

actually most of the money the government takes from you goes back to the company you work for so they can give you health insurance. The government gives companies 200billion in tax breaks in order to give you health insurance. Also, your company includes the price of the benefits it offers you and its other employees into the cost of its product in addition to not giving you as much salary as you are owed.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

richardcheese — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:59:28 GMT

paproudmom- I don't doubt that others share your hopes for Iraq. Those would be the best outcomes acheivable, I agree. I just fear that it would take a massive toll on America to obtain them. We'd be there forever, we'd lose even more of our soldiers, our economy would continue to be more than strained and our military would be unable to address any other future unforeseeable problems elsewhere in the world. Remember Korea? And do you truly believe we can ever acheive stability in that region?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

demslikesmartpres — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:00:21 GMT

Also 50% of the people in this country who do not have health insurance are employed either as small business owners or in some other capacity that does not offer benefits. 20% of the people without health insurance are not employed, but a large percentage of those people are college students.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

thehappyamerican — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:06:37 GMT

The same old tune occures from the same narrow list of questions posed. These are not debates but commercial messages opertunities for Obama.

That One, The One, B. ACORN Obama bored us! he needs a new gimmick and the tire gauge and emblem that looks like the top of a plastic garbage can lid is wore out!

Obama is losing this election and it's his campaign that adheres closely to the DNC standard Americans Suck First campaign. "Change" is just a word or a sign.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

demslikesmartpres — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:08:22 GMT

And if your concern is welfare and wic well let me tell you my story. When my parents were young and i was first born their income was not enough to support a new family. My father was enlisted in the navy and my mother worked as a 2nd grade teacher....two very patriotic careers....and i'm not that old...Anyways they went to wic and to apply for food stamps and were told that they make $50 too much. This means that after they paid all their bills they had exactly 50bucks to live off of. A pack of diapers and some formula consumed that very quickly. So essentially my parents starved to take care of me. There are alot of people out here who work three jobs without sleep and food and they still need the government/your help. Essentially they need your help. The same as you would donate to a food pantry or any other charity...give the government your money.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:10:56 GMT

to richardcheese - yes I truly believe in time we can stabilize Iraq & the region. If I did not believe so I would not advocate staying.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:16:50 GMT

demslikesmartpres - We do give to charity in time and with money. Giving to the government in many cases wastes money that could be used to help others. We have family who can't afford to help their children go to college, we are also helping those children get an education. I can do much better managing my own money and it will go much further then giving it all to the government. Anyone who truly needs help should get help. Not everyone who is poor is there because they can't do better. Some choose that lifestyle. For those individuals my money would be better used elswhere. Don't assume that the government is always the best place for your money to help others. Also in our small business we offer health insurance to all our employees.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:19:02 GMT

thehappyamerican...please tell me what "Maverick" is to you rather than the gimmick I see it as? What does ACORN mean, and why are you calling the American flag a garbage lid that's all wore out?

These are great issues you bring up, that goes without saying, and I'm glad you offer such concrete tactics to address such critical issues as logo reform, waste disposal earmarks, and commercial messaging legislation.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:21:21 GMT

demslikesmartpres, if I am asked to donate money, I usually do it - but I am not for a government who determines to whom I'm going to give that money. We need to be responsible for ourselves, and not rely on someone else for hand outs. Sure a lot of people need help from time to time, but the government running this charity? That's where I draw the line - they decide where the money goes to and how much they are going to mandate that I 'donate.' At least I get to choose if I think a charity is for something with which I agree - I am more than willing to help to fund the troops who protect this country, but not willing to fund everyone who's down on their luck. It's a huge problem, certainly not an easy one to fix - but taking my money to pay for it is not a solution that I can live with. And it's not one that our economy can live with - we need to promote these high dollar jobs, not penalize them!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

KyLewin — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:23:33 GMT

Was Tuesday's debate really an "unfiltered encounter with 60-70 million potential voters"? Really? Last I checked, there was a moderator asking the questions and deciding WHICH questions were asked. Perhaps I'm just confused about the definition of the word "unfiltered."

Frankly, the debate was so boring I wish I'd have spent my time watching Sportscenter reruns. Obama will win, not because he's the better candidate or because he has better ideas (he isn't and he doesn't), but because liberal outlets like Newsweek, CNN, CBS, and the like will ignore anything bad that comes out about him and will shove him down America's throat. The Republican's having a moderate "Maverick" like McCain as their candidate only makes it that much easier.

McCain is "too angry and erratic?" Frankly, I wish he was a little angrier. He's so busy trying to play nice that he's missing opportunities to show America who Obama really is. What a sad election this is.

Hopefully once we are the United Socialist States of America, with our black President/Messiah, we won't have to hear about how racist and greedy we are anymore...

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

demslikesmartpres — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:37:35 GMT

I wonder how these fundamental differences between democrat and republican minded individuals develop? I really am hearing things I had never heard before, never considered, but still dont agree with. I think its interesting that we all have the same goals, but different ways to achieve them and different ways to help others achieve theirs.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

jnakhoul — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:37:39 GMT

sorry mccain, better luck never hahahahaha

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:45:53 GMT

to demslikesmartpres: I don't know how the differences develop. I just know my background. My family did not have a lot of money but learned through hardwork and sacrifice we could get ahead. The same is true with my husband's family. We feel very humbled to be in a position to help others. I'm glad you are at least seeing there is another side to this, it makes people more human. Thanks for your comments.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

joeworker — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:46:38 GMT

well poeple...let me tell you all why things are going wrong in the usa...its so simple to understand....it is all the good paying jobs this country has lost to over seas and mexico, and what i mean by good paying jobs doesnt include wal mart...think about it. people are making less pay paying more for health care more for gas more for food . so in turn arent buying as much stuff cars houses etc.....what we need are GOOD PAYING JOBS HERE IN THE GREAT USA.....COLLEGE ISNT FOR EVERYONE......didnt we see this coming as we lost all those factory jobs cars paper mills textile mills etc....the part i like most about barrack is when he talks about invseting in the american workers furure.....good jobs with good healh care and good pensions none of us working people are looking to get rich just raise out familys and being able to retire someday....if we continue down the road we have been going down the last 8 years its only going to get worse.....look at your 401ks poeple its time for a new direction and if the last 8 years havent convinced you its time to get a democrat back in the white house your part of the problem.. THINK POEPLE ARE U BETTER OFF NOW THEN U WERE 8 YEARS AGO!MCCAIN IS MORE OF THE SAME

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:50:59 GMT

Nice KyLewin, nothing like a little racism talk to kick off the afternoon. I'm not sure this thread of posts was skewing racist, but I'm glad it finally happened.

Nobody is ignoring the bad things that come out about Obama, there are just much worse things that come out about Palin and McCain. Whether it is them trying to say that Obama's mis-steps and recoveries are the worst things in the world, or theological groundings of certain candidates. Has the republican party forgotten about separateion of church and state? Oh, Palin doesn't even know the constitution, nevermind - she thought the VP position was partly in the legislative branch.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:53:06 GMT

hey joe worker, are you one in the same with "joe six-pack"? Because I'm glad to hear you aren't listening to someone who thinks they already have your vote.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:01:55 GMT

We've lost the jobs and sent them overseas because we have become so greedy with our labor unions, that we will not longer accept to be paid what the market will bear - so if those jobs stayed here in the USA, then the pay to get the job done would be higher, and we could not afford to buy the product. This is not simple at all...

It still amazes me that this is an 'us against them' discussion (except for jnakhoul, who thinks it's a kid's temper tantrum); and not a 'how can we do this together'. If we really all ARE after the same end game, then shouldn't we be working harder together to get there? maybe share some good ideas instead of throwing mud and complaining.

We truly have become a nation of whiners - we're willing to sit idly by and complain about what's going on around us. And yes, I'm obviously also guilty - because here I sit!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

joeworker — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:03:25 GMT

mccain and palin saying barrack is bad cause his old preacher said some bad things... well mrs palin didnt u have a witchdoctor put his hands on ur shoulder and prayed for witches to leave u alone so u could be a governor? didnt the first dude todd belong to a group in alaska that wanted to succeed from the usa?in fact the leader of that group that todd palin belonged to berated america way worse then rev wright ever did. mrs palin attended some of those meetings in alaska with her hubby the first dude.... so dont go throwing rocks ina glass house mrs palin

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

NeldaDee — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:04:25 GMT

As a new mother (two under the age of three) I will be voting with maternal instincts for the first time. Let me tell you... that changes things a lot. Only four things that I'm worried about (in no particular order): the economy, foreign policy, healthcare, and education. Obama's ideas are so incredibly brilliant and truly what most voters are looking for that I strongly feel that those voting for McCain (or Palin) are simply voting against Obama with pure ignorance. I have spoken with so many McCain/Palin supporters that have no clue what Obama's platform actually is. They think he's this crazy tree-hugging liberal (or extremist Muslim terrorist?!?) because their Aunt Josephine (or Sean Hannity) told them so. They think he's tryng to create a socialist healthcare system. They think he's anti-military. These are the same people who ask "who is the real Barack Obama?" I personally have researched both candidates myself so that I don't have to ask that question of either of them. Maybe those still asking the question should try a little learning on their part and stop leaving it up to ads running on FoxNews to educate them about the man who will most likely become President in January.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:09:50 GMT

NeldaDee, well-spoken.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

joeworker — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:14:07 GMT

well pc winner you are so wrong about it or me thinking it us against them.... i am part of a group union workers and union contractors that work togther.... both us the workers and the owners have watched paper mills both union and non union close and go evr seas not because of wages u moron but because over seas they can pay thier workers dollars a day... so pc winer u are saying wrokers here in the usa should lower our standard of pay to just dollars a day......i can now see why we are in trouble with people like u thinking unions are bad if it wasnt for the union there would be no middle class no 40 hour wrok week no job safety still would be child labor .....so go ahead with your narrow minded thinking and keep believing that the american workers are making to much in wages AGAIN PCWINNER YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM....POEPLE LIKE YOU ARE THE REASON WE ARE IN SUCH TROUBLE.....ILL BET YOU ARE PART OF THE 20 PERCENT THAT STILL LIKES BUSH

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Roz0804 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:19:42 GMT

I'm still waiting to hear somebody say that they will penialize companies and organizations that take their manufacturing and service jobs out of this country. You can't buy homes or cars and take care of your families if you can't find a job. I went back to school and I still have not found a job in 5 years. This is suppose to be the land of opportunity????? We need jobs!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

lingram — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:20:26 GMT

I couldn't have said it better NeldaDee. I too researched on my own. Most of the people I work with (long time NC Republicans) have no clue where either candidate stands. They think McCain should be president because he is a republican. If people would take the time to educate themselves and not listen to what Aunt Alice and the Reverend Billy Bob say, this country woul not be in the shape it is in.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:20:49 GMT

well NeldaDee, I have also done my research. I DO believe that Obama wants the best for this nation, but I disagree with what the best thing is. I also find some things disconcerting about Obama - aside from the whole democrat thing; like why, if his mother is his US side, does he focus so much on his father's heritage? He's said some things that make a person wonder... I've got a pretty good education, I'm spiritual - but not extreme, and I question Obama's motives and knowledge. And I FEAR for his foreign policy, and his statements that we should just 'get out', and that we would go into Pakistan without their approval if they didn't give us approval or help us - these are not the words that I want the world to hear...

One other thing, the one that keeps me up at night - democrat for President, democratic congress and house..... socialism may not be that far away.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

4astrongamerica — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:20:54 GMT

The decision is very simple for me. What good is Obama's $1,000 or so tax credit if I don't have a job? Who do I trust to lead this country through difficult times on both the economic & national security fronts? John McCain understands how jobs are created and how they're lost. He understands that you can't raise taxes on anyone including businesses and expect the economy to recover. He understands that there are crisis that this country faces that we can't talk our way out of. Someone with experience and resolve has to lead us through them. The only leadership experience that Obama possesses links him to groups that strive to undermine America on every level. His character, his judgment, his motives, his experience or lack thereof all make me very uncomfortable knowing that he could be at the helm steering this country in a very dangerous and uncertain world. This is not a difficult decision if you think through it and truly weigh the choices based on their qualifications to lead this country.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:25:31 GMT

I'm sorry, Joeworker, apparently morons can go to college and get degrees and travel to other countries, and see the world at a different point of view - instead of only down in the trenches.

So since you are the smart one, can you please tell me where the American people are going to get the money to purchase those items that we bring back to the US to manufacture, paying much higher wages? Do you recognize that in some countries, it is possible to live a comfortable life for less than $500/month?

Unions have their place, they've done great things for this country - but we need to acknowledge that they are not always the best thing for us. I'm sorry that you haven't had the opportunity to learn that, but I would never call you a moron - or any other snooty name - for not having that opportunity.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

joeworker — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:27:02 GMT

ROZO804 barrack has said many times he as president would penialize companys that move jobs over seas with higher taxes and that he would reward companys with lower taxes that build factorys here in the good ol usa

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

richardcheese — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:29:33 GMT

I actually used to like and respect McCain until he flip-flopped on all his mavericky positions, started insulting the American public's intelligence with outright lies and denial, and especially when he chose Palin as a running mate. Why would any half-way intelligent candidate choose her? Oh yeah, because she's "like us". Uh, no. HELL no.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:30:20 GMT

pcwinner, you say socialism like it is some horrible, condemning condition for any country to fall into. It has not worked in the past because those who tried to implement it were unilaterally warping the meaning of the original philosophy of socialism, which is simply to provide the basics of life to everyone for the common good of the people.

I don't believe for a second that our government, even if all democratic-party controlled, will lead to the socialism you are relating it to. The fact that we have a healthcare system of any kind is a socialistic trait, so do you want to kill healthcare completely? There is no pure democracy, or free-market economy in existence to speak of, they are all IDEALS. Our combination of the implementation of these ideals has gotten us, very fortuitously, to where we are today through any dem or repub president. And the regime of the last 8 years has morphed our system, so we need to keep it evolving in the way it was up until the year 2000.

You point is moot and irrelevant, and i have even spent too much time thinking about it.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

NeldaDee — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:31:19 GMT

pcwinner - I'm living in suburban Atlanta, and I have many white friends who have blatantly tried to educate ME about Sen. Obama. Only thing is, they have not done the actual research, as you claim to have done. They are trying to tell me that the man is a Muslim terrorist. They firmly believe this. THESE are the people that I believe have their heads up their rears. You may be the exception in this part of the nation. As an educated person, I am glad that you are questioning things and trying to come up with answers. However, I personally believe that if you try to learn about something with fear in your heart, you will only come up with the answers that lean toward that fear. And the whole "Democrat thing" that you keep pointing out? It sounds like you have a fear of Democrats that you need to overcome as well. The GOP and the Dems are not evil - just two different ideologies that you may or may not agree with. Kudos to you for doing research and asking questions, but try and put the fear aside that is plaguing you so and try doing a little critical thinking with your noggin.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

richardcheese — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:33:13 GMT

4astrongamerica- what about McCain being 72? And Palin as his VP? Think again if you can tell me with a straight face that you endorse that scenario (shiver,tremble).

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:33:37 GMT

joeworker: with Obama's tax policies there won't be many companies left in the good ol usa to penalize.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:35:45 GMT

So, Zedcar35, do you think that we SHOULD be socialist? I find it interesting, the concept - I wouldn't live in the country, but I do find it interesting.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:38:47 GMT

paproudmom, is that true? Tell me one tax policy that will eliminate ANY US Company outright...please!

What if we taxed ExxonMobil's RECORD-SETTING profits in the US, and used that to start a company that built electric car motors in the heart of the US? That company could be aligned to have a competitive advantage to any big oil company by being indirectly funded by it, and it could have the tax break to continue operating, Barack is not going to tax all companies in the US across the board, that'd be the proverbial "hatchett" that McCain wants to use to solve most problems.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:40:53 GMT

Nope, pcwinner, I don't think we should be purely socialist, but I don't want to be purely free-market either. A majority would be living at the whim of the rich, which is why we need a balance between a number of economic ideals.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

richardcheese — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:40:58 GMT

You guys would rather entertain the idea of continued wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and probable war with Iran and maybe even Pakistan or Russia, but the (false) idea of Obama raising taxes (without making more than enough cuts elsewhere to cover) terrorizes you?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

opinionater — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:42:42 GMT

I hope Obama will be as good of a president as he looks on paper. There are a couple of things that have me really concerned about MCcain. One a spending freeze on everything but Defense and veterans. WHAT!!!!!!! and what about the rest of us. The other is that he said nuclear energy is safe WHAT!!!!! Did her forget about Chernoble. He said I have been on a ship with a nuclear reactor and it is completely safe. Didn't he have cancer?? So that is just what the country needs pick a fight with all the terrorist countries and than build a bunch of nuclear plants for them to attack. Smart!!! Even if you are Joe six pack you have to see something wrong with that.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

kowens851 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:44:08 GMT

It all comes down to trust. I trust Obama's intelligence, organizational skills, talent for leadership, inspirational oratory, and wise judgement. I trust Biden's wisdom, experience, savvy, and sincerity. We cannot know what lies ahead, so we need to go with those we trust.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:44:33 GMT

NeldaDee, I'm not afraid of democrats - not in the slightest. And Obama's color and heritage have nothing - zero - to do with his abilities. However, his experiences do; and he's a smart man with not enough experience in the places that make me uncomfortable. I don't 'have fear in my heart' , nor in my head. I also don't make decisions based on the color of a person's skin, or which country their ancestors came from. I do try to take a look at the big picture, and I do take issue with our government becoming our 'parents' - who give us an allowance and tell us that we all have to give them what they want. Healthcare is a problem in the US, but talk to some people in other countries and see what their 'government health care' has gotten them. It's not a perfect world; there's not a perfect solution. I think we need to stop & think - and I think that both of these candidates would agree with that.

But my bottom line is that I know that businesses will need to hire fewer people, and let some go - because they will not be able to afford the additional taxes AND the additional labor. I see the American economy losing over this.

And hey, if we're gonna get taxed at a higher rate because we make more money, I'll just stop working so hard, and the government will get even less of my money - so I will have nothing to complain about, right? But then when we all start down that path, where does the money come from? And eventually, none of us will work at all - cause why should we, if we get taken care of by Uncle Sam?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:50:03 GMT

pcwinner, look how far the experience of a Texas governor got us over the last couple years.

Experience is like the dollar at this point, somewhat valued, but falling in value more and more every day. McCain is experienced, and the recent news of his flip-flopping, running of his mouth, and pseudomaverick republican ways make me discount his readiness to lead this country based on experience. AND, whatever experience he has, in my eyes is negated by Palin's INexperience.

Obama has vastly stronger leadership skills, no matter his experience, and if you are worried about experience, Biden will go toe to toe with McCain on that front.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

dendro — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:52:17 GMT

Hello to all,

I do not want to discuss this article in detail since there are not that many worth discussing.

I just want to inform the author and all readers, who do not reside in Nashville, TN, that the gasoline prise on the date of the debate was $3.50 (three dollars and FIFTY cents) and not $3.80 (three dollar and EIGHTY cents). Many of you will argue that 30 (thirty cents) is not a big difference, that this is fully excusable and what matters is the smoothness of movement and the elegance of gestures. But when this is emphasized as "connection to the people and knowledge of their problems" than becomes a deliberate deceiving of the public by both the person, who made the original statement and Mr. Romano, who distributes this to the readers. There are many other facts that were "stretched" and slightly manipulated both in the TV commercials (the wind solar/energy and the 5 million jobs they will create, etc.) and in public speaches and all of them were and are forgiven as minor details compared with the fluidity of speach and the abondance of words, that can be squeezed in 5 minutes. And some still believe there is no media "brain-washing" in this country. However, when the elected President can not secure those 5 million jobs and it turns out that only 5,000 unemployed Ammericans will actually get the promised jobs, let us hope then that the rest will remember these small discrepancies and live with the style they were served.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:54:49 GMT

Hi dendro,

I have gas stations across my small town here that vary by more than 30 cents on regular grade. Maybe you are looking at a different station's sign.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

joeworker — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:55:48 GMT

ok pcwhiner i shouldnt have called u a moron...should have said u are narrow minded and beleive we can afford another 8 years of what got us in this mess .....the last 8 years have been an attacxk on the workers and see where it has gotten us.. people like u saying it is the unions fualt, that is exactly what corporate america wants americans to think... they have u brain washed....or maybe you know better cause u are college eduacated.. there also other countrys that are almost 100 percent union and they are doing fine why cant we here in america do the same? here in the usa we are only 12 percent union and you are saying there is too much union? where do u get your facts? rush ? hannity? oreily? bush? now ill admit there are some bad unions but thereareway more bad things being done by corporate america, enron freddi mac fannie mae keating savings and loan mci etc..... 12 PERCENT OF AMERICAN WORKERS ARE UNION AND I GUESS THATS THE PROBLEM ACCORDING TO A COLLEGE EDUACATED WHINER

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Nowforthetruth — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:57:22 GMT

Even Bill Clinton points to Congressional Democrats failure to deal with Fannie and Freddie as a primary cause.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsynspIqAoE

The link below contains a purported list of the top 25 in Congress who got contributions from the folks at Fannie and Freddie. Obama is listed third, after Dodd and Kerry, even though Obama is just a junior Senator. Obama is followed next by Clinton. Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi are on the list as well.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=16&artnum=1&issue=20080918

Then there is the Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher J. Dodd who allegedly got special mortgage deals from Countrywide, who gave preferential rates to 'friends' of company's chairman.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25140560/

For an interesting article purporting to detail the House Financial Services Committee Chairs long history with Fannie Mae, See http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2008/20080924145932.aspx

"House Financial Services Committee Chair promoted GSEs while former 'spouse' was Fannie Mae executive."

The link below describes how some in Congress tried to use the original version of the bailout bill to divert money eventually recovered to groups like ACORN, a group Obama has a long association with. See:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122247015469280723.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

And then there is House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who allegedly has directed nearly $100,000 from her political action committee to her husband's real estate and investment firm.

http://www.washtimes.com/news/2008/oct/01/pelosis-pac-pays-bills-for-spouses-firm.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Nowforthetruth — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:57:37 GMT

Obama is getting a bump out of this because people are not being reminded of the whole history where the economy is concerned, and who did what when. Call it bias by omission. The media simply says that the economy is Obamas strong issue, but never discusses the facts in detail. Further, who had a majority when is rarely relevant. If the simplistic Party In Power model were true, then the Democrats would not have needed the House Republicans when they tried to pass the bailout bill, as Democrats have the majority in both houses and there is no threat of a veto. In theory, they do not need the Republicans to vote at all. In fact, something like twelve (12) Democrats from Barney Franks own banking committee voted against the bill. Obviously, it is not so simple and the media does the voter a disservice by doing little more than reinforcing the error. A similar argument would be to say that the economy appeared to be doing fine until the Democrats took over control of Congress and the power of the purse, then it tanked. As an aside, the media also misleads regarding the Clinton economy when they fail to mention that it also ended in a recession, requiring the first round of Bush stimulus checks immediately after he took office..

Do Obama and the Democrats deserve a lift in the polls as a result of the financial and mortgage problems? The answer from history is a clear NO. Here's the lead of a New York Times story on September 30, 1999:

"Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending" [link below]. That's 1999 folks. Clinton Administration, I believe.

Here's the lead of a New York Times story on Sept. 11, 2003:

"The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago. "[see link below] The Democrats killed the reforms.

McCain said in co-sponsoring the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190:

"If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system and the economy as a whole. The Democrats killed the Bill.

What was Barney Frank and fellow Democrats saying at the time of these attempted reforms? According to reports, Representative Barney Frank(D-MA) claimed of the thrifts :

"These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."

Representative Mel Watt (D-NC) added of the reforms "I don't see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing." [ See Community Reinvestment Act, link below w/ history]

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:58:00 GMT

Zedcar35, I'm not going to argue about the past 8 years because, frankly, they have nothing to do with the 2 candidates that we are discussing. That's just a nice tactic to change the subject - sorry, not taking it.

An for the record - Biden is NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT - he's running for VICE President. You might want to give that some thought.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:01:54 GMT

Nowfortheskew, funny, you don't mention Big Oil... How does that compare dollar for dollar, dem to repub?

The Oil companies haven't failed as of yet, they are gouging us as our dollar gets less valuable for things we really need. If they had gone under, maybe there would there be a little more scrutiny focused on the benefactors of the republican party?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

dendro — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:03:16 GMT

Hi Zedcar35:

I agree with you that there are many prices across town. But then I can counter why did he pick the higher price and not the lower, because it sevred his cause or becauce he is ignorant? And you just confirmed what I was stating - all these minor differences can be excused no matter what.

Good luck in your life!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

orion12 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:04:46 GMT

Pcwinner made a comment that deserves a response. He/she asked “like why, if his mother is his US side, does he focus so much on his father's heritage?”

Well pcwinner I think that you do have some uncomfortable concerns about Obama, which are racially-based. It does not take a professional analyst to figure it out. Why should he not be proud of his father’s heritage? Tell me something: don’t we have many Americans who are proud of their Jewish, Scottish, Irish, Italian, German, etc, heritage? Is it because his father was black and African that he should not be proud of him? Did you not see Mrs Clinton wearing green on the last Irish Day celebrations? Did that make you feel uneasy?. Suppose Obama had worn a costume of his fathers at any given time what would you say? I suppose you would brand him a terrorist.

If you have a pretty good education as you boast, then I am sorry to say that you do not seem to have benefited from what is called “objectivity”. You throw words like “he has said things that make a person wonder”…. Then you try to cover you prejudices with some intellectual issues about Pakistan. Someone with a good education should not be reasoning this way. You seem only intent on creating doubt. That is not objective and does not befit a well educated person.

I understand your point of view about going into Pakistan. But for each person that disapproves his point of view on this issue there are many who would agree. And please, Pcwinner, you did not listen carefully to what Obama said. He stressed that if the situation existed where there was a clear advantage to take Bin Laden out he would do exactly that. Look at what 911 caused. Who was responsible? Bin Laden. He is constantly plotting to destroy the US. He is a constant threat. (One of these days, God forbid, he may succeed in doing even bigger damage if he is not stopped). So if such an opportunity exists to stop him, the most strategic thing to do is to act, swiftly and decisively. I suppose you have not had any one close to you being killed by terrorist actions, say during 911? Just think about that a bit.

A final thought: Obama is of mixed race. But for many whites he is a black man. He considers himself an American whose mother is white and father is black. He is what he is. That will never change. Because of that he is in a unique situation to bring change to the USA and to help people like you to respect and live in harmony with other people, who are “different”. He does not at this point have to prove anything to convince anyone that he is American. He has a right to be proud of his mother’s and father’s heritage. He recalls both always. So if you are uncomfortable with that, then it is too bad.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:06:02 GMT

I did, and I mentioned your girl Palin too to even the score out, but you're right, they aren't running. If we go Pres to Pres, I give Obama even more of an edge.

The past 8 years are of the utmost importance so we can learn what not to do. Reagan was a great president - charismatic, full of leadership ability, well-spoken, I'd have voted for him, but he couldn't balance a budget. Take a lesson or two forward, kinda like survival of the witchcraft. I mean evolution.

"Listen. There's an old saying. Fool me once, shame on, shame on me. Fool me twice...Ya, ya cant get fooled twice is the point."

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:09:05 GMT

Thanks Dendro, enjoy your life too!

My guess, completely a guess, would be that he either didn't see the lower price, you just seemed to assume he happened to see all the prices, OR that the prices elsewhere are varies To me, for example, in my area, $3.80 actually sounds pretty low.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

joeworker — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:14:47 GMT

SOUNDS LIKE PCWHINER MAKES MORE THEN 250,000 A YEAR......admit it the only reason u want mccain is so u can keep all those tax cuts bush gave you... the same old trickle down theory give big business tax braks and it trickles dow to us workers well it hasnt worked and its time you start paying the taxes you should be pcwhiner

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:19:35 GMT

Actually, Joe, if you read my response again - you'll see that I said - and I believe - that unions have their place; and frankly I believe that they have been a huge part of making this country so great. But sadly, many of them also become greedy. And I'm certainly not HAPPY about the fact that our wage mandates make us out of the price range for work sometimes.

I work in corporate america, but I did not grow up here - I grew up in a family where my father had at least 3 jobs, and all of them blue collar. The union is probably the only reason that we could stay afloat - I am not bashing unions. I'm only suggesting that they are no longer the savior that they used to be, and that they should rethink their place.

I am a whiner, no doubt - I complain about what's wrong and I do nothing to fix it. Guilty as charged, but at least I admit it. Now what is so narrow about my mind?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

joeworker — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:21:36 GMT

lets get the facts straight... if you make more then 250,000 dollars your atxes are going to go up where they were before bush got in office.....if u make less 150,000 dollars a year you will get tax cut......that is barracks stand on taxes period! check it out at fact check......so all you poeple like pcwhiner that make more then 250,000 dollars a year yes u should vote for mccain.. that will be 5 percent for mccain in the vote and 95 percent for barrack barrack wins as long as all u people like me who dont make that much pay attention to the facts

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

SBfromCA — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:21:59 GMT

I live in California and I see variation (between 10 cents to $1) on gasoline price from one station to another that is just 2 miles down the road. What is the big deal that Obama cited your state's gasoline price 30 cents more? You are just grapping the last straw before drowning like Mccain did. Get over it!

Face it! It doesn't matter how "experienced" Mccain is, because his "experience" doesn't seem to help him hold his footing in the past few weeks. I don't know if I was the only one in the country to notice that - Mccain was already out of breath in the first 10 minues of the debate. I also suspected that he needed his medication right after the debate. He took off immediately. What's up with that? The sad fact that nobody can't change is that Mccain is OLD. He has no stemina, he is not as sharp as he used to. Often time he hapharzadly carried his statement in painfully general sentences like "We have to do a lot of things to improve our economy"...What is "a lot of things"; OR "I know how to catch Bin Laden, I do."....??????? HOW? Seriously, if I may, Mr. Mccain, your last chance to win this presidency is a dramatic "game-changer" (as the media call it), and what you need to do NOW is to make that game-changer- go into to Pakistan and kill Bin Laden. Bring his head to American people on a silver plate. That, I gurrantee, will get you elected in November. Anything short of that dramatic game-changer will not do anything to help you, not Bill Ayer, not Wright, only Bin Laden's head will do it.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:23:21 GMT

FYI, Joe - I don't make over 250,000; but where I live, if a family doesn't make 150K or higher, you won't be able to afford a home, let alone pay for food and clothes, and put your kids through school. Would I be happy making less, living in a less expensive area - probably. Would that lead me to believe that the person busting their butt to make over $250K should pay more because I choose to make less? no.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:23:29 GMT

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

4astrongamerica — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:25:06 GMT

richardcheese-- Why do people keep referring to John McCain as if he has one foot in the grave? He may be 72, but he obviously has good longevity genes. His mother is 96 and is still going strong. BTW...isn't that age descrimination? If you want to get technical, neither of Obama's parents lived past the age of 53. That's not much older than he is now. Are you worried about that?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:31:54 GMT

pcwinner - so we CHOOSE to make less than 250K per year, therefore we are entitled to pay the same in taxes??

I don't really understand your logic about the making less, moving to less expensive area, but my friend, whatever gets you by.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:41:59 GMT

What don't you understand?

Let's say 250,000 pays a tax rate of 30% = $75,000 in taxes

if you make 250,000 and pay a lower rate - 25%say = $62,500

if I move somewhere less expensive, and make less money, then I pay even less

75,000 at 15%for example = $11,250

So if I were to do that, then I guess I would be costing 'the taxpayers' money, because I am capable of making more money and paying $75,000 to cover those who are making less.

Why is that difficult to understand? Why would I want to work so hard to put $75K into someone else's pockets?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

sportlock009 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:51:59 GMT

Tired of lies,

Sorry you can't see the truth even when it's slapping you in the face. Your economics class is the same one that taught the ECONOMIST how to receive a bailout for the worst crisis this country has seen in decades. Wonder why it didn't teach them how to foresee this problem and fix it before it broke? Say what you will but here are a few excuses we've seen for gas prices in recent memory.

Hurricanes.........

Well funny thing huh, it's hurricane season!

War...........

Did we pull the troops yet or are we still at war?

Value of the American dollar..............

Biggest financial crisis in decades maybe in history couldn't be good for the dollar, could it?

Not to mention Gore stating the price of fuel needs to be artificially inflated to $5 a gal just a few years ago, right before the skyrocketing gas prices. You can take notes to how prices shot up 4x's the amount as soon as the Dims took over the house.

Now I ask you sir, other then what your being spoonfed to believe in your lib websites, what exactly has changed to make prices at the pump go down other then aloowing offshore drilling?

Your kinda like rainman aren't ya? Count a box of toothpicks as they hit the floor, but when asked about the price of a candybar, 12 million dollars.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:52:02 GMT

It's difficult to understand that you believe that I could be making $250,000 if i just pick up and move. I'd love to get into that tax bracket, but it in no way is an option based on my geographic location.

Do not patronize me with arithmetic, I can calculate tax payments based on income levels. I believe that I am capable of making more money, but there are career paths and barrier costs to actually moving to a new place that limit the amount of choice i actually have in getting over the $250 mark. Not to mention whatever investments I have put away that would help me overcome the barriers to moving are now worth less.

Are you arguing that if Barack becomes president, everyone who makes over $250K is going to move to places that have jobs exclusively offering $249,999 salaries?? If you take away their tax payment, they are still netting more money than someone on a $75K/year salary.

The most oddly selfish part of this whole argument is that you say you would rather net $63,750 per year INSTEAD of netting $175,000 per year after taxes, because THAT would mean that $75K in tax payments is stolen from your pocket, and it goes to the country for schools, healthcare, etc.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

NeldaDee — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:58:02 GMT

The biggest difference between a household with an income of $250K or more and a household with an income of $25K is not just a zero... The people in this country (and I am one of them) that make this much money (over $250K) have PEOPLE. I mean, people whose job it is to make MORE money for the rich. I have so many ways to invest my money, find tax loopholes, and watch my income grow without doing ANYTHING except pay my accountants, brokers, and advisers. Warren Buffet estimates that, after all is said and done, that he pays about 15% in taxes. His receptionist pays about 35%. Taxes are for the "little people."

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:04:00 GMT

ah, but see you are getting my point. And why is it more selfish for me to not want to pay the 75K, than it is for you to choose a career path that makes less money. I am not suggesting that everyone is able to make that kind of money; I AM suggesting that those that do have given up a lot in order to do so, and they most likely get back far less in government funds (not qualifying for any assistance or tax breaks). And maybe I don't LIKE where the government decides to USE my money - I work hard for it, I have to give it up, and I don't get to choose where it goes. Because I'm in a higher tax bracket (though sadly not the 250K), I pay a higher percentage on a higher number - hence the math..... but I get less of it back. I do not mind one bit paying for education or for the military; country infrastructure - sign me up. But I don't agree with all of the other items that my money goes to - I'm still wondering if the $3million for a projector was serious.

I'm not suggesting that people will all take jobs at 249K to get out of the higher taxes; I'm suggesting that it's not as simple as it sounds - and why are you not able to make that 'kind of money'? maybe because you couldn't afford what the other person had to pay - in currency or sweat - to get you there. I see it as penalizing those who chose those hard paths.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

lwta — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:07:44 GMT

Fair and precise, Andrew. Way to go. Yay Stumper.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

gedalifer — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:12:00 GMT

Fantastic commentary Andrew! (as usual) At some point, perhaps next Wednesday night for the final debate (I won't hold my breath), when the "I know how to win a war" rhetoric is tossed out, I would love to hear Barack respond with the question "John, since you're such an expert on the subject, how will we know when we've won considering the fact that we are fighting a concept and a radical response as opposed to a country or an army?" It's like saying we can win the war against "evil" or "drugs". Do terrorists wear a particular uniform or terrorist dog tags? The word "War" should never have been applied here and Bush should never have been granted "War" powers when we can't even figure out who the enemy is. There is absolutely no justification for the lives wasted and the billions spent on a trumped up war that isn't really a war. It seems that many people who are of "The Greatest Generation" driven by memories of their past and their fears, really respond to the word "War". They are the people most likely to vote for McCain. Had we opted out of the phony war we would now have the money to deal with the economic dump we find ourselves in. McCain is sinking himself and will soon be a footnote in our history. GO BARACK!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

careerdaytrader — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:12:37 GMT

Zedcar35 what are you talking about? There are OTHER ways of making large incomes that DO NOT involve working for others or receiving salaries. As a small business owner I'm over the $250k category and since I sell software online around the world I CAN LIVE ANYWHERE!

You don't need to live in the RIGHT place to do well in America. That's the beauty! Live wherever you damn well CHOOSE to!

I live in Sarasota FL because its beautiful, warm year round and Florida doesn't charge state income taxes. NO BRAINER!

Obama to me means I just have to setup offshore companies to NOT GET RAPED by him.

Elect Obama and America loses. The rich just move their money OFFSHORE. The moron poor and middle class will be the ones hurt. I don't for a SECOND feel sorry for those jack A$$es because they are VOTING FOR OBAMA to screw the rich. Sorry you will lose your jobs because of Obama, YOU DESERVE TO!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:13:35 GMT

I have chosen a career path that makes me happy, rather than satisfies my immediate financial success.

So, I should clarify, I guess I am in a way selfish, in that I am pursuing something that i believe does good for me, but it also helps people. You, seemingly.are selfish in the worst way - greedy.

How dare you say I'm not putting my sweat in, and I don't agree with you saying that you don't agree with "all of the other items that your money goes to" - you do realize that McCain is the candidate that just offered to give you even less of a choice in where it goes - Defense and Vets' Affairs. Everything else should be frozen.

When have you heard about the $3MM projector outside of that debate? Of course it was not serious, McCain will say whatever he thinks people want to hear.

Those hard paths you comment on - is AIG taking the hard path? Throwing money somewhere, investing it poorly, then going to the spa is the hard path? The investors are the ones making the most money, not the guy putting in the blue-collar labor hours.

Thing about it is, along that hard path, you are not above $250K the whole time, so your taxes won't be that high until you have made it in that field. For all you know I am on a hard path and am paying what I need to pay to get to the top, and when I get there, maybe I'll give some back.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:19:24 GMT

Zedcar35, I 'dare' say that those making more money COULD be putting more in, the same way that you dare say that I am greedy. You don't know me, and you don't know how much i make or what I do with that money. I didn't judge you, and it would be great if you'd stick to the discussion and not judge me. Not that I really care I guess, just seems wrong somehow. Read Careerdaytrader's response - it's a fact that raising taxes is going to hurt small businesses, and jobs are going to be lost - that's not an opinion.

Lord, I wish it was that easy.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:20:25 GMT

careerdaytrader, did you open your own business right out of High school or college? I am not closed-minded enough to think there are no other ways of making money, but you are very closed-minded if you think I wouldn't want to live in Florida if I had the means to move there right now.

i would love to get to a place in my life where I own a small business, it sucks working for people. How can you get off calling the middle class "MORONS"??? What substantiated proof do you have that jobs will be lost if Obama is president?

AND, I am not voting for Obama to screw the rich, I cannot even believe that is your whole arguement. I am now voting for Obama to screw YOU. The middle class, including myself, aspire to be one of the rich someday, and when I am there, I'll pay to keep the greater good educated, protected, and so on through the taxes that are leveed.

These taxes will not be astronomical in the manner you are predicting, such as to drive small businesses out of business - Obama wants to cut taxes for small businesses. If you work for a large corporation and make over $250K, that's where the taxes are...READ something.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:20:39 GMT

joe worker: how about this - if all the people who make $250, 000 plus decided they are tired of being taxed to death & take lower paying jobs, who are you going to tax to pay your expenses? You seem to put down the people you want to support you.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

NeldaDee — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:21:30 GMT

pcwinner - re the "not afraid of Dems" comment - you stated earlier that it "keeps you up at night."

re the $3 mil projector - it's a PLANETARIUM projector - not an "overhead" projector.

The lack of funding for R&D, and general slowdown of graduates in the sciences and mathematics shows that our country is no longer energized about getting ahead in these areas that for decades made our nation the technologically advanced one. China is graduating engineers 8 to 1 to the US, and that is disturbingly sad. By putting money into this type of education (even if it's a 3 mil price tag) we can try and once again excite young people to dream about becoming a scientist or mathematician.

Remember the comment that Sen. Obama made about JFK wanting the US to "get to the moon in ten years?" We have to put money back into these sorts of endeavors if the US is to regain their footing in the technological world.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:23:06 GMT

Zedcar35 - I'm glad you are able to have a career that makes you happy. I guess we are selfish because we want to be successful because there are family members we help that depend on us.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:30:30 GMT

Zedcar35 keeps saying how these taxes won't effect small business. Well we have one and it will. Oh and be careful what you wish for. Having a small business is really hard work. Very time consuming. Try 80 hours a week. Clients complain, costs go up, only some of which are tax deductible. Each year it seems your working harder and your expenses are more. It is not a piece of cake.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:30:55 GMT

Nope, you are not selfish in that respect, and I know you're a proud mom, probably near PA, so I wouldn't even bring that up against you.

If that was brought up, I would have had different feelings - what was said was that it would be better to make less money overall, in order to pay the government less in taxes.

I hope the goals out there is to support a family, I respect that highly. If so, and you are in the $250K tax bracket, thus realizing a tax increase, which lowers net income, you will still be able to support that family with the programs that result from your higher taxes...it's all relative...

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:33:41 GMT

NeldaDee, I'm good with spending money on research & education... sorry if I misled you; and I agree that more money needs to go into it. My husband is a scientist, as a matter of fact. What keeps me up at night is the money that goes to abuse - hence the $3million ticket item - I won't pretend to know what specifically he was talking about, because it wasn't my point and I didn't bother to research that item. But these tax increases are going to cost jobs, and that will hurt our economy - not help it. THIS is what keeps me up at night - just to be clear.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:36:49 GMT

I'm on the 80 hour a week program and feel your pain.

Speaking of taxes then, you sound like you want more tax deductions, huh? How would a 50% tax break ease some of those increasing expenses? One Entrepeneur blog states that Obama is offering this. Of course, ti gets picked apart and molded by McCain supporters, but the fact is a 50% break.

So I don't actually own a small business, have you actually had Obama as a president yet to prove that the taxes will affect you? Heresy.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:38:06 GMT

Zedcar35 - does it help that I'm originally from Maryland? I don't believe my tax dollars will help others dollar for dollar. When I help someone it goes to them 100% after you take the government overhead out much is lost. Just a thought.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Mwalimu — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:39:39 GMT

Dear Joe Worker: Actuaslly if all the folks making $ 250,000 above decided to work for less thatn

$ 250,000, that would be great. The money they steal from the public could actually go into higher salaries and better fringe benefits for the average working man and woman. And, we would clean up politics over night. No one would have any money to fund lobbyists, bribe candidates, or plow into 527's. All the right wing think tanks like Project for an American Century would fold over night - meaning no more Iraq wars.

The biggest problem our ecnomy faces is that too much money and power are concentrated in the hands of very few people - the same existed in the old USSR - which regardless of its proletarian aspirations - was basically a capitalist police state. Do we want to wind up like the Evil Empire. Actually it would be a great idea to limit the amount of income a person can receive. One to 5 million dollars would seem to be a reasonable figure. We'll assume everything above that was stolen in one way or another and goes back for the common good. I have a hard time believing that people can't survive on $ 250,000 a year - I sure wish I had that problem. Cindy McCain can learn to get by with one car rather than 13 - or better, like me, she can learn to get by with public transportation. She can figure out her kitchen finances on one kitchen table like the rest of us.

Thanks for the great idea, Joe Worker.,

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Simptimatik — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:40:31 GMT

I haven't read all the comments yet, so forgive me if I repeat, but didn't I hear McCain claim that once he is President, he's certainly going to get Obama because he already knows "how to get Obama"?

If that's the case, hasn't he been remiss in sharing his insider knowledge with the powers-that-be so that we can end the Afghanistan/Pakistan..."treasure hunt"...quickly and simply?

I just can't believe he could have said something like this in all seriousness in a national debate. And I haven't yet seen a lot of people call him out on this one. It was one of the most memorable lines of the evening - and one of the most foolish ("That one", of course, takes first place).

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Simptimatik — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:42:31 GMT

Sorry, I meant "Osama bin Laden". McCain is already showing us he can't get Obama.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

chischoolteacher — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:48:09 GMT

It is important to realize that there are a large number of people in the $250,000 plus categories that do not actually themselves earn $250,000 for all the airs that they put on - they own businesses that propel their incomes so high. Why would you file your business under your own person? So you can avoid paying business taxes which have a higher rate AND take a lot of tax breaks you otherwise would not qualify for. So, should we feel bad for people when they try to get out of paying taxes and it fails?

No.

Middle class people do not have the luxury of "tax cuts". We make too much money to get "poor man" credits and we don't have the types of assets that allows us to get "rich man" credits. We, in fact, pay a very large portion of all of the "redistribution monies" b/c there is no out for us. What is going to cost us jobs are not tax increases which force people to pay taxes that they have been avoiding anyway - it is the overspending and poor management of businesses that have owners who have treated the company's revenues as their own monies rather than investments. Those good business owners should not be affected by this at all, and if they are, then they could always change their business entity and pay the business taxes they've been avoiding all of this time and limit their own personal liability - but that would make them like us, wouldn't it? Hmmmm...

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Zedcar35 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:52:51 GMT

Atta way, school 'em Chris.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Richard1327 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:06:10 GMT

The townhall debate was disgusting. McCain and Obama both lost BIG TIME. They contradicted each other so many times that nothing made sense. They called each other liars so many times that it's impossible to believe either one of them. They tried to slip in so many stupid zingers that they looked like a couple of clowns who can't take anything seriously while the rest of us are drowning. The USA is going down the toilet and the best we can come up with is an empty headed senator from IL with no experience or plans and a fossil from the last the stone-age that doesn't use a computer. WHERE THE HELL ARE OUR REAL REPRESENTATIVES? After last night, I imagine that any independents or undecideds are more confused than ever.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

bethanne205 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:13:43 GMT

I was disturbed by what seemed to be McCain's new habit of answering questions in a breathless manner and constantly referring to the American public as "my friend." Throw on a pair of heels and glasses, and substitute "Joe Six Pack" for my friend, and I would swear that Sarah Palin had been on stage last night. I find both of their deliveries to be annoying. Also, I did not find McCain's interaction with the retired Navy Chief to be endearing, I thought it condescending. I say that because, rather than walking over with hand extended to shake his hand, he patted him on the shoulder. It was awkward and made me cringe. Overall, it was boring, but Obama's answers seemed more reasoned and presidential than McCain's. I also found it irritating that McCain seemed to have the answers to so much... solve the economic problems, catch bin Laden, win the war, solve the energy crisis... I kept waiting for him to say he could cure cancer! If he has all these answers, why are we struggling? Why don't we have Bin Laden? And, I was also concerned about his arrogance that we can solve health care, energy and entitlement program issues all at the same time. Really? While I think that to a certain extent some of these issues are entertwined and solving one layer will cause problems elsewhere, I also think it ridiculous to dilute attention by focusing on too much at once. I fear that would lead only to failure and disappointment, where being the jack of all trades (so to speak) will result in mastering none and lead to a deeper quagmire.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

mcleodmn — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:27:49 GMT

I love how Republicans always complain that every single news organization on the face of the planet has a Democratic bias, with the exception of FOX News, of course. Here is my question to those people: At what point is it no longer bias? Your candidate is old, angry, erratic and admitted not not knowing much about the #1 issue on peoples minds today. The Republican candidate just isn't as good as his Democratic counterpart. It's that simple. The Republican party is rearranging the furniture on the titanic. Republicans are leaving the party in droves. Republican politicains are losing elections across the board and the worst president in the history of our country is still at the helm, and he's a Republican. You don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to see it. You just have to put your ignorance aside.

I am tempted to agree that the media is biased, though. If the media was really an unbiased entity, then things would be much, much worse for the Republican party and it's unprecedented inadequacies.

I like Jewish people. I don't like Nazis. Does that make me biased? Or could it be that the Nazis were the most deplorable, despicable group of murderers to walk the earth?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

mhaldeman — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:38:22 GMT

I SAY SCREW THESE TWO-LET'S HAVE COLIN POWELL WITH CONDOLEZA RICE FOR VP-U KNOW IF ANY MAN IS GONNA GET ANYTHING DONE, IT IS GOING TO TAKE A MAN AMONG MEN-I ONLY WISH HE WOULD HAVE RUN.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Ohio for McCain/Palin!!!! — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 22:21:29 GMT

I would like to see and hear Obama answer a question without avoiding the question. He did not answer the first question in the debate and he did not answer the last one and who knows what he said in between. I don't trust the polls whatsoever. The only way Obama will win is by cheating with the aid of Acorn! Why would you want to win an election in this manner? Because he is a puppet for a group of radicals. The normal working folks in Ohio do not support Obama. Felons, dead people and stupid people who want to vote 50 times for him at one standing are his supporters. What a joke. The democrats look like liberal trash! That is right, trash!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 22:26:37 GMT

bethanne205 - so you liked how Obama knows so much about the military and foreign policy - mr "I'd go into Pakistan" - if Obama wins, you deserve what you get. If you can't recognize patriotism and human kindness, then you're in far worse shape than I.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pinpoint — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 22:37:39 GMT

McCain used the phrase "my friends" 22 times last night. Stop using it. It's lame and irritating. Most of us are not your friends.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 22:38:40 GMT

to chrisschoolteacher - hopefully you do not teach any business courses. If you are self employed and not incorporated or an LLC that's how by law you file them. Do you take any deductions on your taxes. If you do -what are you trying to do? Avoid paying taxes.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

paproudmom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 22:49:48 GMT

It is appalling that someone with such a lack of understanding about businesses like chris the school teacher (doubtful and frightening if true) even ventures to give an opinion. He could not be more wrong. Go back to school.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

olderwiser — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 23:00:51 GMT

I don't think that he will call us his friends after the election. He has a tendency to curse those who disagree with him. Even fellow senators, despite the ancient rules providing for courtesy amongst those who are fortunate enough to be in our senate, have been the object of the basest vulgarities from Mc Cain at the slightest disagreement. He is not presidential material.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 23:49:07 GMT

right older, because Obama who doesn't even acknowledge his mother or fraternal side of the family unless he's trying to get sympathy, and said flat out on national television that he would go into Pakistan without their approval - that's who you think is better. You might be older, but you should rethink the second part of your name. Maybe you just didn't think.... that's what you said, right "I don't think"

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

killians — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 00:03:26 GMT

I work as a loadmaster and tech pubs manager for a cargo airline and, as such, spend most of my life abroad (I'm about to climb aboard a 747-300SF bound for South Korea in just a few hours). I find having spent so much time in other countries, immeresed in other cultures, that most Americans don't have the vaguest of ideas about how similiar we actually are in this country. It's disheartening, and reading these comments seems to confirm that for me even more. It's funny reading about how "different" these two men are and how divergent their political beliefs seem to be. Let me assure you, when standing on the world political line and looking to the left and right you would find both Obama and McCain standing very much in the middle. Anyone desiring an adventure on the real left side of the scale might try spending some time in La Paz, Boliva or Caracas, Venezuela to get a true measure of socialist thinking. And on the right, I recommend a good old fashioned vacation in a reactionary bastion of lunancy like Karachi, Pakistan if you're curious about what a real a "right-wing nut" is (and Pakistan is considered liberal by many in that portion of the world).

I've been to all of these locales and because of that I feel I can say this: Americans as a whole have no idea just how good they have it. To be able to argue openly at all is a right many in this world still don't have. So please, for the benefit or yourselves and your children, make infromed decisions based not on what you heard on Fox News or CNN or some silly thread on some silly website. And stop the personal attacks. If you're going to engage in political discussions, try doing so like an adult.

If you'll forgive my one political offering: I'm tired of mediocrity. I'm tired of people like the person below who write that it's okay that Sarah Palin doesn't know the names of the supreme court justices. No, it is in no way okay. I can tell you the applicable V-speeds for nearly every Boeing aircraft I've been on, how to pack explosives in any temperature, the appropriate way to manage a fire in mid-flight and how to lateraly imbalance an aircraft. I know these things because IT'S MY JOB TO. As part of my chosen proffession I'm required to know these things. Why should our politicians be any different? McCain certainly has more experience than Obama but he completely cancelled that out the moment he selected Palin,and because of that I can't vote for him in good conscience. I've worked in an around PANC (Anchorage) off and on for the past three years and I tell you what bothered me most about Govenor Palin was not her politicial views, religious beliefs or personal life -- it was that fact that like our current president she didn't seem to be contemplative. She didn't ever once seem to acknowledge that she was elected to represent everyone in Alaska and not just republicans, and to do so in a contemplative and even manner. And for the record, I voted republican the last two elections in my hometown in Florida. In short: I feel Palin is not ready. I had hoped McCain would have made the smart move: Ridge, Romney. Instead he made the political one. But such is life.

Regardless of what I think, I believe it's important that we -- at the very least -- attempt to get back to respecting our differences, acknowledging that they will always be there, but also, for the love of God! --- realize that in the end we are not as different as the cable news networks would have us believe. And most importantly, get back to arguing the substance instead of the flash.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

jiml1956 — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 00:04:07 GMT

pcwuinner,

So if we find Bin Laden in Pakistan, we should wait until he goes back to Afghanistan?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

caraprado — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 00:06:27 GMT

From:

Head of State

http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/10/fear-and-loathing-in-town-hall.html

Tuesday, October 07, 2008

Fear and Loathing in the Town Hall: A Predictive Fantasy

(The camera looks at the hall from above, into the hall, from the POV of the stage. Red meat has been hung from the walls and rafters, along with dollar bills which, upon closer inspection, are prop money.

The crowd is seated. They are strangely quiet. Their manner is that between those who are waiting for their instructions, post-op surgical recoverees, and post-war survivors. They are slightly slumped, in the same posture.

The candidates enter from opposite sides of the rear of the stage and walk to their podiums. The crowd rises as one and cheers with a loud, aggressive fervor reflective of their desperation.

Obama is standing tall in stride, looking a bit overcome by the experience, although genuine. McCain is smiling--his cheerful public grimace, although there is some genuine pleasure. His eyes have the slightest glaze of a gradually oncoming fog.)

MODERATOR: Tonight is a different format--one where you, the public, can ask your questions directly to the candidates. None of the questions have been screened in advance, and the candidates have been given no advance notice of what the questions, or who the questioners, might be. And with that, we begin. Our first question:

CITIZEN 1: My name is Jan, I'm from Murfreesboro? I've been watching the news, and I'm scared. I can't say that I've listened much about the stock market before? But I know that it's going down, and that's bad. I don't know what's going to happen to my job, or my house, or my kids. My question is for Mr. McCain? What will you do to help us understand what is going on, and to make it clear just what you will do about it?

(Crowd applauds vigorously as Jan sits down with a bit of embarrassment).

MCCAIN: (Holding the top of the rostrum with both hands and smiling): Well, first, I want to welcome each of you here tonight. You know, I know what each of you are feeling. I think that each of you must be scared--as I am, of not verifying myself in my father's and my grandfather's eyes. But, that's not so important today--or, at least saying it isn't. What is most important is to appear that I understand an economy that just months ago I said that I had little understanding of at all. I want to win. I need it, frankly, as a way of overcoming my own personal horrors and demons, of overcoming the anger that was bestowed and thrust, unwillingly, upon me. And that's why I'm still willing, even as the sharpest edges of mental function fade, to propel myself through this mass of insult. I understand how to respond to insult. With anger. And impulse. And that's what I'll bring to the White House, come January of 2009.

(Crowd applauds vigorously)

MODERATOR: The next question is for Senator Obama.

CITIZEN 2: Thanks. My name is Ross, from Shreveport. First-time caller, long-time listener. My question is: Senator Obama, it's not an error that you were given the middle name "Barack". We know that that is the same name of the murderous. Communist leader of Iran--and that's no accident. (A slight murmur from the crowd. The moderator looks vaguely stunned, but does not interrupt). Now, when you were going to Russia, with Bill Ayers, and dodging the draft--just like William Jefferson Clinton--(speaking more quickly now, more aggressively, turning to the crowd)--why weren't you here at home, saving our banks from the Liberals and the Socialists who want to take our money away from us and just give it to the terrorists?

SARAH PALIN: (Poking her head out from the wings, with a big smile): You betcha'!

(She withdraws).

OBAMA: Well. First of all, I also want to welcome you all here tonight. You know, I know that this is a difficult time. Many of you are worried about your jobs, your families, your homes. There are times that test a man's soul, and every woman's as well. And I know that this may be one of those times. I can understand why you would be frightened, even angry at what this nation has done. But we are a nation that has risen up in adversity even in the best of times, we found our strength, and honor, and courage, our ability to work as one, when faced with the most difficult situations. And I want to call on each of you, in that spirit of patriotic sacrifice, to join with me in that effort in the days ahead.

(Silence. Then applause, as the recognition of actual thought begins to spread through the crowd. It swells, and finally, subsides).

MODERATOR: The next question is for Senator McCain.

CITIZEN 3 (He is a man who appears to be in his early 40's wearing blue jeans that are stiff and obviously brand-new. They are perfectly creased. He is wearing a tight fitting, also obviously new T-Shirt that says "Average American...And Black With Rage!" beneath which is an American flag. He is wearing black wing-tip shoes. ). Senator McCain, I'm just an average American, just an average Joe, just your Average Joe-Sixpack (Blackberry begins ringing)...Oh...

excuse me...just...a...sec...my boss's phone...(whispering tensely into phone:) "No...I said sell. Sell. Yes, the entire portfolio. No, not Ghanan timber, for god's sake, gold, the lot of it. Jesus H....(tucks Blackberry back into pants pocket and then readjusts his stance to that of average Joe, slumping to one side again and changing his voice back to it's original tenor). Like I said, just an average Joe Sixpack. And I'm wonderin'. I heard what Mr. Hussein just said about "rising up", and I'm wonderin' if that's exactly what he wants to do! Oh, sure, he wants us to band together to rise up--where have we heard that before? Socialists! That's what they do! (crowd begins to murmur, and in the rising heat, the smell of the fresh meat begins to waft faintly through the hall). Rise up! That's what he wants to do! Well, we need to rise up! Against those kind of Socialist, Communist, Fascist, Atheist, Marxist policies! (the crowd is talking, some nodding their heads). And so what I want to ask you, Sen. McCain (crowd quiets), as an average everyday American, is this: What is it like, being a fighter pilot and all, when you know that Barack Hussein was out there, palling around with his Communist friends?

MCCAIN: Well, my friend--and by that, I mean that all of you are my friends--I'm glad you asked. Not everyone has had the luxury of gaining an education merely on the basis of their own talent, or the opportunity to travel the world learning how to be separate from important family members without their having significant pull, or to be able to experience the variety of foods that one has the chance to consume when they are paid for by the State. And, I can say that, in that way, I haven't been quiet as lucky. But I will say this--I will not look such fortune in the face and say: 'Fine, I'll work on education with the Bill Ayers of this world', "I'll be at the top of my class at Harvard", when I can be down, down there with you at the bottom! I know what it's like to be at the bottom when I've had all the opportunities--and I want to share that experience with those of you who have had none. You're angry. I'm angry. We have that in common. Let's be angry together, satisfied that, for another for four years, we've put those who have the arrogance to think for extended periods in their place, content in knowing that we're right--even if we're wrong.

CITIZEN 4: Hiya. My name is George, from Midland, altho' some would say Kennebunkport, heh, heh. I have a question for ya, John, and it's this. Listen: I'm goin' to be out of a job soon. Oil futures aren't lookin' that good, and I've got to tell ya', I didn't have too much luck there in the first place. So I'd like to ask ya, one flyin' man to another--what do you think I oughta do?

PALIN: (emerges from wings with purposeful strides to McCain's podium): I've got to take this one, John. Mr. Bush, if you can't figure out what you want to do after you leave and we move in, take a little time off, and then you come right up to Alaska. They love hunting just like you--and you can fly, you can learn to do it from a plane! The pipeline's big enough for any number of mistakes. So you come up here when you're finished--we've got plenty of bars with plenty of bowls of nuts and plenty of televisions right on Wasiila Main street--we'll take care of you right!

(Bush smiles and sits, crowd applauds, Palin, smiling and waving, exits).

CITIZEN 5: Well, look. This is a serious question. I'm John, from Carpenter. It's for both of you. I've got two kids, 4 and 6, a boy and a girl--so sweet. You know. My wife, she was working for the WaMu branch, center of town. It's closing next week. She's been looking in the ads, the newspapers, online--nothing. It's all she can do to keep a smile on her face for the kids. Myself, I built a commerical trucking business from the ground up. Sixteen years. Sweat everyday, grease on my hands, I can never get it out. We were never rich, but I made a good living. I didn't know about investing--who does, you're not born with it! Anyway, I went to an investment advisor, it seemed like the safe thing to do, protect the kids, plan for the future, not use my own dumb head (smiles). Well, he was so smart, and he was so sure, and he had it all planned out. And it looked so impressive on paper. Now--all of a sudden--it's gone. Everything is changing. It's changing so quickly. It seems like nobody--nobody knew. Not even the people who were supposed to! Everybody was talkin', makin noise, thinkin' of one thing: Themselves, themselves, themselves. Never worrying to think about someone else, about the future, about the next moment.

Well, now the next moment is here. And I wanna know--what are the two of you really going to do about it?

(The room is quiet as his last word echoes in the hall. The raw meat is rocking, slowly in the air, and the paper bills are gently fluttering). You can see Palin in profile, standing in the wings, holding her chin in her hand. The two candidates stare straight ahead, holding the podium. They are silent).

Cite:

Head of State

http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/10/fear-and-loathing-in-town-hall.html

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

caraprado — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 00:06:54 GMT

From:

Head of State

http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/10/that-one.html

Tuesday, October 07, 2008

"That One"

What a very odd thing for McCain to say.

McCain repeatedly invoked the need for a "steady hand on the tiller" tonight--for someone who will be calm and cool in the crises that the upcoming years will present us.

Yet this is a man who is utterly unable to contain his contempt--even on a night when, even as Bill Bennett says, he needed to "break through", and even when such a strange expression of disdain could only highlight pettiness, anger and partisanship that voters wish that candidates would steer away from in the greater interest of the nation.

McCain's fundamental position--one from which he finds his momentum and meaning--is so often one of a contemptuous anger for those who do not understand what he believes he has learned--e.g., "them".

This is the impulsive, gut-driven, black and white thinking that we have seen throughout the campaign.

We have had 8 years of a President driven by impulsive, black and white, gut-driven, categorical thinking. In those 8 years, from a position that manifested from the very start an angry, assumed knowledge, and a contempt for the position of others, we have now seen the results.

So this time: choose that one.

Cite:

Head of State

http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/10/that-one.html

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Mr Deeds — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 00:07:11 GMT

Dear Andrew,

When writing FICTION, you should submit your works to a fiction publication. Oh wait, this is Newsweek!! Sorry... I guess you're in the right spot after all. However, they should change their name to FictionWeek... or maybe BiasedWeek.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 00:18:59 GMT

Jim, no we should not WAIT. But we should keep our mouths SHUT about our plans! Loose lips sink ships - sound familiar?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

jiml1956 — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 00:23:25 GMT

pcwinner,

Did you know we have been going into Pakistan without their permission?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Texas Jake — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 00:25:19 GMT

Neither one of these clown-puppets impressed me by spewing out rehashed stump speeches. The questions were specific enough; yet the answers addressed the general topic, but not a single answer to the exact questions. Even when Tom prompted them to answer a question yes or no, neither candidate could do it.

I was looking for an answer of any kind that felt correct. Wait, wait, nope, maybe next question. I wanted to hear something that passed the common sense test. Both of these candidates have the same plutocratic agenda...Safeguard the wealth from the common people. Simple but fits.

Here is what I am going to do. For the next decade, I will vote out every single encumbent, in every race, with no consideration for their platform. Pretty soon, the cost (and hassle) of re-buying politicians and policies by the wealthy capitalist class will break their stronghold over the common citizens. Sound silly? Well, if traditional voting worked, then why do we need to clean up congress? If congress represented the people, then why are taxpayers called the 'losers' in the bail-out heist?

I am beyond feeling disenfranchised, frustrated, and helpless. I am no longer satisfied with just getting by. Yeah, change is coming, but neither one of these bozos are going to bring it.

Question: Is Ron Paul still running? (write in maybe?)

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

pcwinner — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 00:34:16 GMT

Yes Jim, I actually know a lot of things we've been doing 'without permission' - but I keep my mouth shut. Maybe I should be president - apparently I'm more qualified than Obama.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

wendy027 — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 01:37:29 GMT

This is funny stuff. Obama is now running as a tax and spending cutter. His record is exactly the opposite. This man is completely dishonest. Not surprising given his penchant for hanging around criminals such as Rezko and traitors such as Ayers and America haters such as Wright. In fact his big job as a community organizer was working for the criminal organization Acorn.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

kimme051 — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 01:50:25 GMT

I just have to say this though it's painfully obvious when you look at an electoral map. The red states look to be a haven for racist trailer trash bullheads who wouldn't know truth or sense if you hammered it in. these are the ugly Americans hated around the world who love jesus so they can rip you off in his name. these folk make me ashamed to be American. There seem to be at least 45 per cent of our population. this is really disappointing. I can't believe how shamefully stupid these ones are.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

kimme051 — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 01:50:37 GMT

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Nowforthetruth — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 02:42:37 GMT

If this election cycle has demonstrated anything, it is that in order to preserve democracy in this country, it is passed time we reconsidered the additional protections provided the media by the Supreme Court in New York Times v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254 (1964), which protects the media from most slander and libel suits. While perhaps noble at the time in its conception, the media has abundantly demonstrated that for the advancement of their own political agenda, on both sides, and to fill the demands of the 24/7 news cycle, they are willing to abandon any pretense of objectivity or, more importantly, of journalistic ethics. Since they cannot exercise the power they have been given responsibly on their own, perhaps it is necessary to return the threat of legal sanction under which they operated prior to 1954.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._Sullivan

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

RonnieSmith — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 02:47:14 GMT

I am a liberal and a democrat. But, I want the president of my country to be selected based on merits, and not by an overwhelming bias, and propaganda. I don't understand why the media (almost all of them) and liberal-leaning papers/magazines like NewsWeek. Time, WP, NY Times, LA Times, Boston Globe, etc jump all over, when William Ayers or Tony Rezko's connections with Barack Obama is discussed. After all, if Obama does not have anything to worry, is it not welcome that this thing comes out in the open. Should Obama be protected from any criticism? Didn't the media push us into the Iraq War? They failed us once, and fail us again. In 2000 election, it was painful for me to see the media glowing over Bush as the savior of White House's "integrity" and "morality". We know what we got. Now, it is the media's turn to brainwash everyone into believing Obama has done nothing wrong, and will do none. Please don't push your agenda on us. If there is a story about Obama and Ayers, investigate it, explain it. Don't attack those who bring it in the open. In fact, before Palin talked about it or Clinton brought it, the media should have done that. We don't believe in Hannity. We want YOU to do it for us. Ask Obama why he associated with Ayers, Wright, and Rezko so long and in so much depth. Let the world know what he has to say. Don't push Obama into the White House. Let him earn it. We deserve that, and you (the news media) need to earn that respect, by asking tough questions to Obama too. Don't be a propaganda machine for any party or any candidate. The reason I am a Democrat is because of the dislike I have for right-wing loud mouths. We don't need left-wing cover-up machines. If you believe Obama is good, he'll come out clean. BUT DON'T COVER IT UP.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

LB in denver — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 04:27:13 GMT

killians..."Regardless of what I think, I believe it's important that we -- at the very least -- attempt to get back to respecting our differences, acknowledging that they will always be there, but also, for the love of God! --- realize that in the end we are not as different as the cable news networks would have us believe. And most importantly, get back to arguing the substance instead of the flash."

so true, and well said - i hope that the masses will heed your advice. thank you!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Middleclasswhiteguy — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 11:03:16 GMT

I see the disinformatin boiler rooms are pumping away. It's not working this year Karl.

FIKMO.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

floridacadman — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 11:50:41 GMT

As an employer, I notice 2 types of employees. The ones that try and make themselves look good by making everyone else look bad, and those that mak themselves look good by doing the job.

McCain is clearly the former, I dont trust those types. Its all about misdirection. 100% of his adds now are Bama-Bashing. Sad for a man that should know better.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

kold — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:36:54 GMT

I am Slovak and live in Slovakia (part of EU), but I watch the election as closely as I can. I hope it will be Obama. And the reason for it? - I just think it'd be a great proof of democracy, in the first place, as OB is a black, or rather mulato, guy, and with a moslim name. If American people can digest this, than it speaks for itself.

Secondly, he does bring a change - is young enough to be flexible to adopt whatever is reasonable, be it from the right or left. Has a record of stable development, unlike McCain who has changed views in line with his goals, and, as he is too old to run again, he'll go to any length to win now (his choice of Palin, for example). I also venture to say that if he understood the lesson from his imprisonment, he would have never gone into politics, unless he were a saint.

I simply think it'd be a great mistake not to try to make a step forward, even though it may look scary.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Paroxysm — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:49:20 GMT

Response to "Loriw":

I won't touch on whether I agree or disagree with your points, but I wanted to correct you on military customs and courtesies.

As military members, we cannot (I repeat, can NOT) attend political events, rallies, protests, and other coordinated group assemblies in uniform (in most cases). The personnel you saw doing that, whether ordered to by misinformed superiors or not, were violating procedures. This isn't to prevent the military from attending such events. Legally, I can attend any event or rally I wish, up to and including hate-group assemblies or anti-war protests --- I cannot do it in uniform though. This is so it's not perceived as "official" or Department of Defense support. If I had been in attendance, I would have promptly informed the violating individuals to change their clothes, or leave the rally.

There are cases where military members will be ordered to attend an event in uniform. Such as, the President speaking at an event. This is not "political support" in the same sense as attending a support rally for someone competing for the Presidency. The President is our Commander-in-Chief, and attending an event for his/her presence is authorized.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

GTX13 — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:02:33 GMT

To Cold: Unfortunately you are right; American people is constituted by good human constituents, but some of them are too naive to make the difference between good and bad or between honesty and evil. In such circumstances, the notorious crooks might take advantage ! That's why we have a massive FBI investigation on the way in Ohio and other states. Alert !All honest people which can provide some useful information, please inform the nearest FBI Agency from Ohio or elsewhere ! Thanks for cooperation !

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Ohio for McCain/Palin!!!! — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:07:05 GMT

I simply think it'd be a great mistake not to try to make a step forward, even though it may look scary.

Report Abuse

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If Obama is elected, your country will be effected also! Down the tubes! Actually, who cares what you think!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

GTX13 — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:16:09 GMT

Maxim Alert ! Watch out ACORN organisation, a subversive left wing financed by American tax payers, now under massive FBI Investigations regarding a huge and an impressive election fraud in the US History !

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

blackcourt — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:17:10 GMT

Obama's followers are doing what they do best... creating voters where there aren't any. Take a look into the front page of MSNBC... ten states are looking into a scandal of voter registration. This is the exact kind of tactics that ACORN and Ayers use in order to get what they want. Obama is the voice they are using in order to gain the power that they want.

Obama can't even prove that he was born in the United States. There is a lawsuit going now to force him to prove it by providing his birth certificate... like John McCain had to do. But for some reason it doesn't seem that Obama is being held to the same measure that McCain is. Wasn't he a constitution lawyer? Shouldn't he know that being born outside of the United States makes it illegal for him to be President of the United States.

Why aren't these questions being asked by the media? Why isn't the media putting Obama under any sort of scrutiny? Seems that they are doing everything that they possibly can to get this man elected. Just look at this Romano kids articles. He has never once done any research into Obama... but he talks about him as if he is the next coming of the Messiah.

Why is the American public voting for a Senator who doesn't even vote on bills. He just gives a "present" vote. How can you support someone who doesn't stand for anything?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

GTX13 — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:29:23 GMT

What do you expect good from this baby/kid Romano which is in tank with Newsweek, a toilette paper, 100% in the tank with Obama, ACORN and other left wing groups !

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

GTX13 — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:34:05 GMT

ACORN, a left wing organisation paid by US tax payers, under criminal investigations regarding a massive fraud election !

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

blackcourt — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:36:39 GMT

Why is the American public voting for a Senator who doesn't even vote on bills. He just gives a "present" vote. How can you support someone who doesn't stand for anything?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

tiredoflies — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:02:36 GMT

People do NOT know the real John McCain, but they are beginning to.

This is NOT the McCain of 2000. This is a totally different McCain who is pandering to his base and whoever he has to for votes.

I am a resident from Arizona. This man has done nothing I can recall as helpful to anyone here including veterans. McCain is NOT SO PRO VETERAN as people assume. He has hid this very well. Check the record of his votes. The latest was the bill sponsored by Senator Webb and others for educational benefits for returning veterans. He voted AGAINST IT. People ASSUME because he was a POW he is for veterans. The record proves different. And now he is LYING AND DISTORTING ON JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING TO ATTACK OBAMA.

McCain used to be an honorable man. But now, in his current desperation, he is willing to lie, cheat, steal or promise anything just to gain the White House. He is willing to sell out the American People, the country and his own soul just for the power he is unable to aptly wield.

McCain WAS A POW and that deserves respect but IT DOES NOT MAKE HIM AND EXPERT. He held no field commands. He was a glamour boy that flew airplanes. DO NOT ASSUME that makes him an expert on the strategy of war. Field commands do that.

Do NOT assume just because he has been in the Senate forever that makes him so knowledgeable. Ask why he could NOT achieve more than he has before the age of 72 with a POW background. Its because, with a class standing of 894 out of 899, he just does not have what it takes..

Listen to him carefully. Any rational, open minded, unbiased person would have to agree he is really lacking in so many ways.

It is unfortunate that John McCain, a man who deserves a nation's respect as a POW is now a man who resorts almost routinely to outright lies and distortions. A man without vision and is oriented only toward violence in solving our future problems.

JOHN MCCAIN IS MORE WAR WAITING TO HAPPEN.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

gobbledegook — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:16:28 GMT

Whaddya like: this one, that one or the other? You know this one, you know about that one and as for the other, well you know. Follow your heart: this one, that one or the other.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

blackcourt — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:20:14 GMT

Why is the American public voting for a Senator who doesn't even vote on bills. He just gives a "present" vote. How can you support someone who doesn't stand for anything?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

bethany617 — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:40:03 GMT

I love "that one!"

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

anamorphicart — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:50:18 GMT

Republicans should be embarassed by their choice of candidates!!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

darkplayer — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 18:23:01 GMT

Blackcourt and FOX News just give it up already. McCain/Palin sorry excuse of running a clean campaign is DONE.

The People has Spoken, the time to Implement changes is coming.

Obama/Biden 08'

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

piinalu — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 18:25:53 GMT

Re: Blackcourt

I respect your loyalty to your man, but, seriously, come up with something that we haven't already heard and dismissed. I think the main reason McCain is losing is that same kind of tone-deaf approach. The more you and your candidates talk about irrelevant issues, the more irrelevant you become. It's amazing how so many McCain supports act like we just didn't hear, thinking that they just need to yell louder to make their point. We're not deaf. We heard, and we don't care.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

darkplayer — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 18:49:17 GMT

News break, Afghanistan in Crisis. Didn't Obama mentioned we needed to send more troops because the talibans are regrouping and attacking? I wonder what McCain is going to say now?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Sam10 — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 22:29:02 GMT

Here is something quietly for your deaf ears and apparently blind eyes. Obama has no background in politics to make a decisive judgement. The only executive experience was the CAC with William Ayers, and he lost more than 100 million dollars of other people's money. He has no ideas of his own, during the primary, all he could say was - I agree with Hillary. Now he is doing the same thing and echoing John McCain - ... America has the best workers. Please don't bring America down based on rhetoric from a teleprompter. Look at the records. Obama has a big 0 next to him, and that is not an O for his last name. Do America a favor and elect a real hero, John McCain.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

Ohio for McCain/Palin!!!! — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 00:24:00 GMT

News break, Afghanistan in Crisis. Didn't Obama mentioned we needed to send more troops because the talibans are regrouping and attacking? I wonder what McCain is going to say now?

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My goodness, where did you learn to spell? Acorn?

It appears the Feds will be utilizing the RICO Act regarding Acorn and the fraudulent voter registrations! Oh Bama, you are in trouble now! Morris, the cat, was registered in Ohio. Does Obama have a cat?

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

whisky willy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:58:12 GMT

The news media, Newsweek included, are very biased during this election. Every source I have read has said that Obama didn't loose the last debate. The media must think the American people are very very dumb to suggest something as asinine as Obama having came even close to winning the last debate. From the start of the debate he was stumbling over what he was tring to convey to the American people. Towards the end of the debate it was very hard to understand what he was tring to say. If the Media thinks this is winning, God help the American people.

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

whisky willy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:58:12 GMT

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

whisky willy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 02:11:23 GMT

WHAT ASININE COMMENTS ARE WE GOING TO HEAR NEXT FROM ALL YOU OBAMA BidEN LADEN FANS

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

uncle T . — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 03:33:42 GMT

Why vote for somebody that don't believe in the second amendement and supports banning handguns supports banning certain ammunition and banning recreational firearms such as semi auto sporting arms that most of us americans enjoy and heres the kicker he also wants every gun owner to register their firearms No the right to keep and bare arms shal not be infringed if you dont belive me then read the American Rifleman do some research I will not vote for a totalitarian socialist that likes to see America disarmed you can't go no where without a gun if you do then your a irresponsible citizen and a easy victim of crime so vote for the right person we will not tollerate another ban so every gun owner band together and vote for McCain America will not ever change or should we have to Obama Bidenlauden for president absoulutly not McCain YES

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

americandefender — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:31:54 GMT

We are awake MCGILL you right wing nut racist, we have had enough of your fear mongering we don't need your vile rhetoric. As an american I am offended by your kind you are the open sore of america and thank god you are the minority. Go Obama our next president!!!!!!!!!!!!!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

joeworker — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:42:53 GMT

you are the most stupid people i have ever seen....obama is not going to take ur guns... that is just so stupid to even believe that, come on are you that irgonrant to believe that stuff?get the facts obama is endorsed by the shooters ass obama voted against the bill in the senate that the american goverment could take ur guns away in the event of a major crisis... did you hear me obama voted against it.....lets talk about mccain ... mccain has voted for more regulations for people selling guns at gun shows and he mcain that is ... is making it harder for people to buy guns ......so u little minded people go ahead and keep thinking obama is going to take ur guns u all said the same thing about clinton and when bill was in offfice no one came and took any of my guns....its the same old same old tactics that im sick of and that im sure most of us are also!!!!!

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

joeworker — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:51:10 GMT

would the mccain campaign please stop all this hate stuff... at there rallys people are yelling kill him he is a terrorist..... this is so bad..... mccain as to step up to the plate and stop all this hating ... this country doesnt need hate right now we need to come togther and get it right.....what i see if mccain wins is more of the same old same old politics as usaul ... we need a uniter not a divider.......OBAMA IS THE RIGHT MAN FOR THE JOB...... HOW CAN WE GO ON LIKE THE LAST 8 YEARS......HOW COULD ANYONE IN THERE RIGHT MIND VOTE FOR A PERSON THAT ISNT EVEN TAKING ABOUT THE ECONOMY ONLY ABOUT STUPID STUFF.....WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!! PUT AWAY THE HATE

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

joeworker — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:59:56 GMT

MCCAIN IS THE TERRORIST.... mccain says he knows how to get bin laden and he is not going to tell anyone how to get him unless he gets elected as the pres.... SAY WHAT? IF MCCAIN KNOWS HOW TO GET BIN LADEN WHY DOESNT HE GO TELL THE CIA OR BUSH OR WHO EVER AND GET HIM? i cant beleive mccain said that only he knows how to get bin laden and only he knows how to do it... well please for the sake of my safety and my childrens safety please mr mccain go get him right now not after u get elected that may be too late.....WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!! MCCAIN IS THE BIGGEST LIEING ERRACTIC OUT OF TOUCH PERSON EVER ........MCCAIN KEEPS SAYING WASHINGTON DC HASNT GOTTEN IT WRONG AND THAT DC NEEDS TO CHANGE... WELL EXCUSE ME HASNT MCCAIIN BEEN IN DC FOR EVER?MCCAIN IS PART OF THE PROBLEM

re: The Nashville Debate: McCain and Obama Sing the Same Old Tune

joeworker — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:32:04 GMT

have any of you mccain supporters ever hear of joe vogel?vogel is the head of the alaskan independce group... tod first dude palin belongs to this group...... do you know what this groups main objective is?well this group wants alaska to suceed from the usa..... vogel as said the united states of america sucks and that alaskians in his group, that todd palin belongs to, dont want to be part of the usa...... now to me it doesnt get any more anti american then that!!!!!!