The Kitchen Sink Debate

re: The Kitchen-Sink Debate

Nowforthetruth — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 04:44:55 GMT

Whether McCain won or lost tonight is not relevant. He succeeded in the first half hour to plant the seeds of a Reagan style wipeout. Reputable historians and economists overwhelmingly agree that the taxation imposed by and the “stimulus” spending and public works programs of FDR actually deepened and prolonged the Great Depression. It was the production demands of WWII that got the economy going again. And when the war was over, it promptly went into recession.

Point is, Obama's programs are tax and spend, and it does not really matter who you tax, those taxes are passed through the economy. Any first year economics student knows that taxation is a tool used to contract an economy experiencing inflation, because it reduces demand by reducing the amount of money individuals and businesses have to spend. It is contractionary, which is exactly what you do not want to do when the problem is that the economy is contracting already into recession. Like FDR, Obamas plans will only make it worse for longer.

Obama's plans alone would be bad enough, but add Wright and Pelosi to the mix, with the three of them controlling both houses of Congress and the executive without and effective restraint, and you have something that should be something that causes concern even among moderate Democrats. Don't think so? Watch and listen to a C-SPAN video clip of the Congressional hearings at roughly the time McCains attempt at S.190. to fix fannie and freddie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

re: The Kitchen-Sink Debate

voicewithin — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 04:56:37 GMT

What's so new about having the kitchen sink thrown at you??

More sleaze from McCain... McCain continues his scuzzy bottom of the bottom attacks on Obama. McCain continues these dangerous cheap low-class flea-bitten lies...

Disagree with McCain... Take a trip to the woodshed...

Disagree with McCain... He will insult your mother...

Disagree with McCain... Get ready for lies and slander... scandalous lies and slander...

For more information on John Hate-Mongering McCain and his sidekick Sarah 666 Palin visit http://www.ibelievethis.us

re: The Kitchen-Sink Debate

Caleb Murdock — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 05:23:03 GMT

Andrew and I obviously watched different debates. I saw a McCain who was pale, nervous, tense, negative and beady-eyed, and an Obama who was relaxed and eloquent. Attacking your opponent doesn't win you any points if your opponent has ready responses and looks to be more in command of the subject. McCain didn't throw any kitchen sink; he threw a few spitballs.

And why all this contempt for Obama for not accepting public financing? You can't blame a candidate for making intelligent tactical decisions. Of all the so-called flip-flops that Obama has made (and there haven't actually been many), that one was the most justified. And why should Obama have taken the bait and held all those town-hall debates if it wasn't to his advantage? There are important flip-flops, and then flip-flops that are not important, and tactical changes in a campaign cannot be held against a candidate.

All that Joe the Plumber stuff was a joke. There is a lot of resentment of plumbers who charge as much as doctors charge. If Joe the Plumber is making $250,000 a year, then by God he SHOULD pay more taxes.

My site:

The Lies of John McCain

www.liesofjohnmccain.com

re: The Kitchen-Sink Debate

ik.nha.tun@gmail.com — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 07:23:54 GMT

http://www.need4trth.blogspot.com

TONIGHT JOHN MCCAIN WAS VERY SAD AND VERY DISRESPECTFUL....

I'm not going to spend too much time on this, but McCain behaved, hmmm how can you explain it? How can I say this respectfully? No, I'll say it truthfully. McCain showed no respect at all tonight in his dealings with his colleague in the Senate.

Totally DISRESPECTFUL, BITTER, ANGRY, and CHILDISH. The throwing of the hands in the air, the rolling of the eyes, the snappy MEAN-SPIRITED REMARKS.

McCain truly earned the title of 'GRAMPY MCNASTY'. An angry bitter, mean, and ERRATIC old man. McCain emulated the sentiments of evil and vileness such as that of Sarah Palin and his followers tonite. McCain even defended those who call out for murder at his rallies.

WHEN ASKED IF HE WOULD CEASE THE NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING MCCAIN GAVE NO ANSWER....

No implication that he would cease and desist. I've never seen anyone as hate filled uncivil and close to having a STROKE as I witnessed tonite in John McCain.

OBAMA COOL ABOUT MCCAIN ATTACKS.....

AND THE WINNER IS.......

Barack Obama answered the moderator and John McCain civilly tonite. He was respectful even when being disrespected he behaved SOBERLY AND WITH RESPECT towards John McCain, who truly did not MERIT such a response of LOVE, and almost SYMPATHY. Senator Obama BEHAVED himself WISELY.

re: The Kitchen-Sink Debate

navel — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:41:22 GMT

Hey, we all know they are both full of ____. they will not do a dam thing they are saying they will. So what to do? There are far too many unknowns out there about Obama. America cannot take anymore chances. And why do you think they've kept Michelle n the closet, just look at her and you get your answer. Come on America, lets not go in reverse here, it's taken a long time to get our nation here, we cannot roll back the clocks. McCain may not bring them forward , but he certainly will not bring them backwards like we know Obama will.

re: The Kitchen-Sink Debate

terrasears — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:44:34 GMT

I felt that Obama took the high road during the entire debate. He didn't bring up the skeletons in McCain's closet (which are more factual), he didn't stoop to that level, and stayed with the issues. He showed moral character, and I find him to be awe inspiring. I don't agree with everything he stands for, but a whole lot more than McCain.

Awe inspiring enough, after the first debate I ran out and registered to vote. My first time in my 30 some years as an American.

re: The Kitchen-Sink Debate

A.N.A — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:19:30 GMT

I watched the debate outside US. I think the delivery and body language of Obama were more presidential. McCain seemd agressive and arogant which do not fit a president. I don't know whom Americans will elect on 4 Nov.

re: The Kitchen-Sink Debate

radiantenergies — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:38:43 GMT

Corporations do not pay income taxes because the CEO's and owners take it out as payroll, and they enjoy a tax bracket that allows them to keep more of their money. When Republican spending is more than tax revenues, deficits occur. This election is about restoring the middle class, and McCain did himself no favors by attacking Obama last night. Intelligence has no substitute.

re: The Kitchen-Sink Debate

floridacadman — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:45:09 GMT

McCain looked frustrated and borderline senile. He attacked and backed up as if he wasnt sure he was doing the right thing, but rather, following the orders of a misguided political strategest. He proclaimed to stand up for false accusations against Obama, then threw a 40 year old brief association at him. He talked about Joe the plumber, who apparently makes a hell of a lot more than 250k a year, as if he were middle class America. Talk about out of touch.

It was sad for McCain.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Jack999 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:49:25 GMT

Its sad,When McCain speaks to his auidence,his mentality treated everyone like 4th grade kids.Obama treats everyone as adullt.

As Obama said in Final debate ,MCain did followed and VOTED( 90% of G.W.B POLICY)

MCCain responsed IM NOT BUSH...Damn everyone know you're NOT Bush,BUT mentality you're BUSH TWIN.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Jack999 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:54:03 GMT

Its sad,When McCain speaks to his auidence,his mentality treated everyone like 4th grade kids.Obama treats everyone as adullt.

As Obama said in Final debate ,MCain follows and VOTED( 90% of G.W.B POLICY)

MCCain responsed IM NOT BUSH...Damn everyone know you're NOT bush,BUT mentality you're BUSH TWIN.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Partoftheplan — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:59:48 GMT

If McCain would have stuck to power issues he would have won the debate hands down. But, he let his handlers convince him that attacking was the way to go. John even your brother knows that your advisors suck, move them away from you and get Joe the plumber to advise you. His advice will be heart felt and from the public side of view. Change your talking points, no more Ayers. Power, energy, power, energy... I will still be voting Obama if nothing changes.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

muffinb — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:00:15 GMT

Navel: Quote [And why do you think they've kept Michelle n the closet, just look at her and you get your answer] I don't know where you get they are keeping Michelle int he closet. He has been out on the stump by herself, she has been on Larry King live. So I really don't know where you're coming from here. And what's this" just take a look at her and you will see". stuff. She is a very intelligent good looking woman. So what is your point?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

TomTraubert — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:05:15 GMT

Well, I'm sorry that McCain's performance didn't live up to your slavish hope that he could somehow pull this one off, Romano. I know you were rooting for him. I'm relieved, however, that the consensus of the Washington media was the McCain "won" or "did well"; they've been wrong exactly four out of four times. You know, may I take the liberty to point out, what you and they think is not important, what the voters think about it is what counts. A few quibbles:

1) "He was forceful, passionate and clear when speaking about abortion and education."

-I doubt that most women are going to look kindly on that dismissive AIRQUOTE health of the mother AIRQUOTE business.

2) "McCain had some strong moments. He rightfully scolded Obama for indiscriminately linking him to Bush."

-- I think linking McCain to Bush is entirely legitimate. What do you mean "rightfully scolded"? McCain holds exactly the same positions on most issues as Bush, has voted > 90% of the time with Bush, has supported Bush strongly on every extra-constitutional measure including approval of torture and allowing the NSA to spy on Americans without warrants in violation of the 4th Amendment of the Constitution. How is it illegitimate to link him with Bush? You are way off base here. You don't like it, of course, because it's bad for McCain. Just admit it.

3) "His record of defying his party's orthodoxy is nowhere near as long as McCain's."

- This is wrong on so many levels. The Republicans really have you brainwashed on this one, Anthony. Where is it written that someone must "defy his party's orthodoxy"? That preposterous talking point is meaningless and I'd ask that you expound on exactly what part of Obama's party "orthodoxy" should have been "defied" and also, what is the Democratic Party's "orthodoxy" anyway. You are just repeating mindless phrases spoon-fed to you by Republican spinners.

4)"And he does plan to raise taxes on small business owners who make more than $250,000 a year--which may or may not include Joe the Plumber."

-That would be small business owners who *NET* over 250 thou per year, which would mean the business' gross revenue would be over a million dollars a year.

And I await the Anthony Romano Plan that would increase federal revenues such that the deficit, tripled this year alone, is reduced without returning to the tax rates before the wanton, irresponsible Bush tax cuts that ran up the largest deficit in history, by any measure.

5) "McCain may have been the better debater on points that night,"

- Another mindless, meaningless phrase spoon-fed to you by McCain's spinners and circulated around the center right blogosphere as if it had some kind of meaning. What "points" are you talking about, Anthony? What "points" were awarded, for what? You and your fellow echo chamber keep repeating that phrase and it has no meaning.

How about writing something original for a change? Why are you being paid to repeat every single Republican spin phrase copied and pasted off Drudge and Ambinder?

Next up, Romano copies and pastes the distortions and selective quotations posted on FactCheck. Verbatim. What a sweet gig you have.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

aguasticas — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:08:45 GMT

Exactly right Nowforthetruth, and it was for those reasons of tax and spend and goverment intervention in the magical workings of the invisible hand free market that the American voter rose up in united outrage in 1936, repudiating the Rooseveltian policies, and elected Alf Landon of Kansas as President. The rest is history.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

varacefan — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:26:01 GMT

I agree Obama did much better in the debate. I also agree it is sad for McCain. Does that mean I am voting for Obama? Hell No! The man is a great public speaker and very good at making you feel as if he feels your pain. I just don't believe the guy will do what he says he'll do. Does anyone on this planet really believe he will cut anyone's taxes? Has Nancy P. or Harry Reid ever cut a tax in their life? They will run over this guy and they will run the country. He may have the best intentions but it ain't going to happen. The thought of Nancy and Harry running our country makes me shutter. The sad thing is its all about image. Obama has the good looks and the smooth pitch and he is a very smart guy. That alone will get him a lot of votes from the casual observer. Combine that with the media's desire to elect the first black man and the hate for Bush many have and Obama is pretty much a lock. That is why many Rep. including myself didn't want McCain as our canidate. There was no way he could match up with Obama in style points. In our society today style almost always wins over substance.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

SouthernIL52 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:31:13 GMT

Navel said, "just look at her and and you get your answer." mmmm...sorry I don't know what you mean unless you mean you are racist....

Do you know anything about Michelle? Do you want to do a side by side with Cindy McCain?

This is the kind of thing that scares me about McCain, his negativity, and his hostile supporters (please not I'm not calling ALL his supporters hostile or racist but those are the ones I fear.). This is what Lewis was talking about. McCain's attacks are playing on fears and especially the fears of those who ARE racist.

And before you label me, I am a middle class professional white woman (although I HATE that I feel like I even need to discuss my race).

I think that the negativity that has turned off voters regarding McCain's attacks, is the negativity associated with attacking the person, rather than the candidate's stand on the issues. And just because one candidate was a POW, doesn't mean he has good character. It does mean he made a great sacrifice for his country, but many Vietnam Vets did, regardless of whether they were POWs, and very few were called heroes. I think we owe them a big apology because I see very little difference between that war and the IRAQ war, and I think we need to support those who serve our country in such a courageous manner, regardless of whether we agree with our involvement in the war.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

navel — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:43:37 GMT

My point on Michelle is simply put - Yes I know she has been on a few shows, but we don't see her regularly and I believe it is due to the fact that she exemplifies and portrays soooo much anger, as if she has such a chip on her shoulder and America owes her big time. It very clear to me that is her point even though she is trying to supress it as much as she can, I think she's about to blow anyday now. So that's why I just can't deal with thinking she will be in the WH, I truly believe she and barack will bring this country backwards rather then forwards. I'm not a racist and franly dispise the obama team always relating to race. If you like him youre a racist, if you dont like him you're a racist. Enough already, its about the issues and direction of this country. McCain is nothing special, but he is the lesser of the two.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

benluclar — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:00:30 GMT

To varacefan.....

In this forum today you have made the most logical sense as yet. Surely, you are the voice of the common American household voter who is disenchanted with the depth of thought many are giving to the subject of true leadership and false performance.

Voters cannot transpose these two factors. I hope they listen.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Northern Neighbor — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:01:01 GMT

What McCain needed more than the kitchen sink would have been the dishwasher, into which he might have put all the dirty dishes of his last few weeks of campaigning, then come across as all clean and shiny. But that was not to be, since it's easier for a maverick to tear out the kitchen sink in a fit of anger than just open the dishwasher and clean things up, Really a sad spectacle to see such a nice old man make such a persistently angry victim of himself. But I hope Michelle will invite John and Cindy over for tea some time, and show them how a well-educated black Amerocan family can add grace and beauty to a White House that has been short on this for nearly a decade.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

tim_horstmann — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:06:58 GMT

"exemplifies and portrays soooo much anger,"

WHAT? Have you actually watched any of the numerous shows that she has appeared on? The campaign appearances? Where is this anger you speak of? All I see is an intelligent, attactive, and successful woman. She is always very gracious. Watch her appearance on the Daily Show just last week. Or on Colbert back in Philadelphia in the spring.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

sieg6529 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:07:52 GMT

McCain isn't looking very presidential right now. I don't want a firebrand making decisions on foreign policy with Russia or China. We need someone who thinks with his head. We are not beset upon from without, and we clearly have no more use for a war president. We need a calm and well-educated person to bring us into a global economy (it's going to happen whether you want it to or not).

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

GregHere — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:08:08 GMT

.................................Are you calling this The Kitchen Sink Debate because McCain threw everything he could find at Obama except the Kitchen Sink?? McCain is desperate and resorting to anything his Campaign Managers can find for him to slam Obama with. It was a big laugh to see McCain on TV while Obama was speaking, McCain had this Wild Look with Wild Shifting Eyes....he seemed like a Real Mad Man who was going to explode could not hold his anger back!!!!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

MD1077 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:09:14 GMT

OH navel, your last sentence was too wonderfully ironic for me to resist. "McCain is nothing special, but he is the lesser of the two." Truer words were never written.

McCain has abandoned his principles and his personality in the course of the last two years. I would have voted for the man in 2000, but that was a different time, calling for different leadership skills. And, sorry to say, the intervening 8 years have not been kind to McCain. This last might not have been overly concerning had he not made a craven and preposterous choice for his VP.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

LVUONG — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:16:27 GMT

Obama's qualifications, with a thin resume, no actual government achievements and a long record of flip-flops, are up to the people.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

SouthernIL52 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:18:00 GMT

Navel: Thank you for qualifying your meaning,.. I must say I am more concerned about McCain's anger that I see, and his inability to separate himself from his anger when he is on the attack. Watching him in the debate, he appears childish and vindictive, and he seems very reactive (in a scary way). I worry more about what will happen if he blows, not Michelle, since he is running for President, and she is not.

When I have watched Michelle, what has come out is her protectiveness and defensive stance for her husband and her family). And personally, I'm sure that she has some reason for her anger, but that doesn't mean she will use it in a self-defeating way, or as a means to attack others.

On the other hand, I FEAR how McCain will use his. We might not fall backward, but we might FALL, and take all of humankind with us.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

ewaynes — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:18:52 GMT

The round-table debate format allowed close ups of the candidates as they talked and listened that provided insight as to how they would handle meetings and discussions as President. Obama looked McCain in the eye, called McCain out directly when he distorted the truth (health care, education, taxes), and responded directly to comments made by McCain point by point. While not great, Obama did a better job of articulating his plans, especially on health care, taxes, advisors, and the economy than McCain. Obama looked and sounded like a President ready to both take on domestic problems and engage other world leaders on the world stage. By comparison, McCain looked uncomfortable sitting so close to Obama. McCain sounded disingenuous when he kept saying "my friend", condescending and desperate with "Congratulations Joe - You're rich...", and confused about his own health care plan even as he tried to disparage Obama's. Side note - Ask McCain if he would rather keep his current govt health insurance (the core of Obama's plan) or receive $5,000/yr from the govt to go buy health insurance. His current govt insurance costs more than either $5,000/yr or the $5,800/yr he quoted in the debate. Of course, McCain's plan wouldn't apply to McCain or other government employees...just another example of govt telling people how they must live, but then not living by the same rules themselves. Obama's plan offers the govt healt insurance plan to people who choose to enroll in it. McCain rolled his eyes on numerous occasions - that will be perceived poorly when meeting with world leaders, used sarcasm to deflect inaccuracies or short-comings in his own policies, and as Mr. Romano said, was so dis-jointed in his attacks that he appeared desperate. Maybe he is...10 years of frustration is a long time.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

ewaynes — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:30:35 GMT

Well said SouthernIL52. While I believe that some discussion of Michelle or Cindy is acceptable - they will be the First Lady, and in different ways, a sounding board for their husband / President. However, McCain is the one showing outward anger, vindictive agression, truth distortion, and uncoordinated attacks (and this was just last night) because things aren't going his way. Imagine his reaction when Iran tells him "NO" when he says to stop nuclear enrichment, or when Russia threatens to cut off natural gas.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

billtill — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:31:57 GMT

Its amazing how a little compassion and a whole lot of ignorance adds up to Barack Obama.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

thehappyamerican — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:39:06 GMT

From the liberal's perspective they see "hate" in anyone who is not bashing the Country! anyone who is not waging the descrimination campaigns of the media and DNC against achievers, christians firearms owners police and military professionals.

McCain wasn't angry or hatefull.

Obama adheres to the Americans suck First campaign! The same one Clinton issued from the Oval Office for 8 years.

Now,Obama may have been 8 years old when certain events transpired involving Bill Ayres and his HATE for Americans and desire to bring all the violence in the world to the streets of America.

But Obama is not only 8 years old TODAY! And Ayres is still alive and interactive with the DNC and voter fraud.

Obama told Joe the plumber Obama was going to use a Marxist approach to manage the economy. And Ayres , the bomber believes free enterprise is not humane, but bombing is fine!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

cannonbll — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:39:45 GMT

We're not electing Michelle Obama .... just like we're not electing 12 plastic surgeries too many Mrs McCain (we could only wish that she could show an emotion, too much botox I guess).

McCain appeared to be just what he is. Old, out of touch, ill informed, incapable of reasonable discourse, and far too angry. Couple that with Miss Alaska .... errrrrr runner up ..... and it's an extremely unpalatable ticket. Particularly to most of middle class america who don't relate to people who own 7 homes. Sorry McCain but you don't relate to Joe Sixpack whatsoeer.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

snuggle52 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:40:20 GMT

We have president now that cannot work with people, we don't need another and that would be

McCain. He need to take anger managment class , most of the night he was rolling his eyes at

Obama. He avoided the question when was asked about Palin could step in. He never gives

direct answers or detail. In the middle I could hardly watch him, because he is so negative about everything and no real answers. Truth of the matter he and Palin really scare me.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

dave-kansas city — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:42:01 GMT

All McCain has to do is expose Obama for what he is at the core- a socialist. WHAT DO PEOPLE THINK OBAMA MEANS WHEN HE SAYS "SPREAD THE WEALTH AROUND"???? Gee, the world never heard of a man with an idea to make everything "fair" for everyone. Sounds like your average communist in training to me. I think it would have been enough to go hard at B. Hussein's associations, wife's comments, ect. but when McCain said rev wright was off the table he screwed up. I just hope enough Americans understand the fundementals of economics to realize that anytime the government gives handouts it kills the incentive for people to get an alarm clock and become a contributing member of society.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

cely99 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:43:32 GMT

MCCAIN shows his sincerity just like what he has done in the past. I don't want to put America at risk by giving the opponent the benefit of the doubt especially when the media is ONE SIDED. We

all know McCain's heroism and surely he'll put our country FIRST !

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

ewaynes — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:44:06 GMT

billtill - Would you like to elaborate? Your statement reads like Republican slogans for the last 9 years. Fear, tax & spend, Fear, tax & spend...without so much as an actual fact or shred of truth to any of it. When pressed to a corner, the current Republican doctrine is: Deflect the current problems, remind people of the things they fear, and accuse Democrats of "tax & spend". The facts are that Republicans lied to get us into the war in Iraq and we are not more secure now, Clinton (a Democrat) was the last President to generate a budget surplus - 4 of them. So he might have taxed, but spending was well managed. And lest you forget, we need a few surplus years...there's the debt the current Republican President created and is dumping on the next President.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

phyllismleblanc — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:45:43 GMT

The debate last night was an awakening. The false accusations that Sen.McCain made about Sen.Obama regarding ties to terrorist,Ayers and Obama being in his living room, along with the ACORN debacle, were blown out of the water. I like what Obama was saying and how he explained the issues that he stands for and what he plans to do when in the White House. CNN showed a 2008 video of Gov.Sarah Palin speaking in support of a group called THE ALASKA INDEPENDENCE PARTY. I wonder why this subject was not brought to light anymore. This video needs to be shown(you can view it on YouTube) to the public. It's scary to see someone who is running for Vice President of the United States and she is in support of a group who does not want to be a part of the United States and speaks down about the American Flag. EVERYONE WHO IS A VOTER NEEDS TO GO TO YOUTUBE AND WATCH WHAT GOV. SARAH PALIN IS SAYING TO THESE PEOPLE AND WHAT THEY THINK OF THE UNITED STATES. THEN WATCH THE VIDEO OF THE GUY WHO THE VIDEO WAS STOLEN FROM AND SEE WHAT HE SHOWS THESE PEOPLE SAYING ABOUT PALIN GETTING INTO THE WHITE HOUSE AND HELPING THEM. IT IS SCARY!!!!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

menkryan — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:46:21 GMT

The Republicans are cooked. Their party is in chaos. Every time one of them speaks ill of McCain they say they're in the tank for Obama. The campaign has written off the ENTIRE media in this fashion also. The McCain campaign and what I perceive to be the person don't match up. He would have been a much stronger candidate if he didn't sell his soul for the party. McCain the Naval hero was against Bush's tax cuts to the top 5%. McCain the candidate is for them? That "my friends" is called transparency. They simply can't escape Bush when their policies are the same. We have 3 more weeks of negative assaults to shield, then we will begin to move this county in a new direction. Democrats- Assume it is us that are down in the polls, we must not take this lead for granted. Get out and vote!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

waterconserver — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:47:27 GMT

If Obama gets in, Pelosi, Reed, Franks, Dodd and Obama will destroy the economy without any question. Taxes never have resulted in an upturn in a dismal economic environment. What don't people understand about this simple fact? This recession is going to be nasty even before you add in a tax. I used to be afraid for the people who work under me but am now questioning my job's own viability. Someone who is just getting by now won't have a chance under an Obama administration.

At least John McCain understands that taxes are punitive and retards growth. History tells us that. If small businesses get taxed, their overall value goes down. If their value goes down, then the banks are less willing to lend them money via a line of credit. Without a larger line of credit, companies then have to adjust by increasing the costs they share with the employees for health care, they have to freeze wages and maybe even layoff good people. Companies and the owners of the companies never really pay taxes - they just pass them on. This fact seems to escape Mr. Obama and quite frankly - most of the voting public. You are putting yourself at risk of losing your job if you vote for Mr. Obama and the taxes he represents.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

SouthernIL52 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:49:55 GMT

billtill:

Actually I have a whole lot of compassion...so perhaps you can use that against me.

I prefer compassion to misdirected passion. If you mean Obama's compassion, I think that is a sincere compassion. McCains attempts to show compassion just doesn't come across as sincere. In fact, last night, it seemed like he was trying to use Sarah Palin's style of responding. Throwing disconnected phrases out there, talking about things other than answering the quesion, and then trying to throw out some key words, such as "economy" when most of his discourse was about "autism," which seemed to be a pretty flatant attempt to throw some fake compassion into the argument.

Regardless, your message just supports how negative attacks (ignorance) fail to motivate undecided voters.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

billtill — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:50:29 GMT

ewaynes you probably dont get it because you probably want the supposed measly tax cut obama is promising. my question for you is, do you want to work hard, or do you want a handout? do you want to work hard and have your hard earned money given to people who dont want to work and just want a handout? it boils down to people who are lazy, or are too compassionate to not realize the error of giving a handout. obama has no foresight, his supporters have no foresight. you have no foresight. kill the american dream, give the scraps to the poor. great solution, lets all be equal, so the lazy dont have to work at all. AND get a tax refund under obamas plan, even if they paid no taxes at all.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

cannonbll — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:55:14 GMT

Ummm waterconserver .... take a look around the economy is already in shambles.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Partoftheplan — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:55:36 GMT

This is too funny. Quit with the talking points. The American public has found out your game and we are getting very tired of it. Both parties are to blame for this mess. But McCain's handlers are so bad they don't have a clue.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

cely99 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:57:27 GMT

Remember we already have a Democratic controlled congress. For how long now? Got the message?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

billtill — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:57:38 GMT

Hey guys, guess what, Handout does not equal compassion. Do you get it? Quit trying to act like you are the only one that cares about people. I care about people, but I don't believe in a handout. I believe in equality, IN OPPORTUNITY. People should have equal OPPORTUNITY, not a HANDOUT. Can one of you liberals please admit to me you understand this?????

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

paulte — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:59:17 GMT

I think McCain did pretty well. Obama is always good at these things and always on his toes. But I think in fairness McCain did win. He didn't get nasty and he made his points. I especially like the way he stopped Obama in his tracks about the Bush comparison when he told him he should have run against him four years ago. Touche! He did his homework. I don't agree with McCain on his mortgage plan. That is my one negative review of McCain. The govt will be buying up these mortgages anyway in the $700B. The holders will be off the hook and the govt can sell the properties in the future in a better climate to recoup some of the $700B.

I just hope enough Americans will wake up to the see the reality of how lacking in substance Obama really is. Obama is truly an empty suit. What does he know about finance anyway, may I ask? Why should the Wall Street crisis work to his or to the Dems favor? All the Dems know is tax, spend and regulate! God save us from an Obama-Pelosi axis! Now is the time for prayer against the heathen Dems!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

olderwiser — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:01:56 GMT

We saw an angry and desperate old man whose eyes burned at the camera with something resembling hate as he waited impatiently for his opponent to finish defending himself from one idiotic accusation after the other. It was a desperate attempt to claw his superior down so that he could win an office that he likely could not finish with a bright and working brain, his real chance to be president having been destroyed by his own party eight years ago when he might have made a difference in especially avoiding a wrong war, and he likely would not have our economy as has been recently accomplished by his inferiors who destroyed him when he really could have done us some good. It is too late. We're sorry, old guy. You could have been a contender. Hang up your gloves. The zip has gone out of your jab and the legs are gone. Quit before your lights go out and you make us cry.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

michaelzoe — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:03:56 GMT

First of all, McCain cannot win. His current proposas for buying up mortgage debt are some of the most socialist ideas EVER. His old trickle-down beliefs from his Reagan years have served for the past 28 years to completey defraud the country.

Fact: McCain was thoroughly investigated for FRAUD by his own government during as part of the Keating 5 S&L disaster where 23,000 people lost their life savings in banking fraud (sound familar) and strongly chastized by his peers for terrible judgement. Well, you can either change over time, change your associations, change your beliefs, and grow, or end up a bitter, misguided broken man who channels his shame into slogans, chants, and a belief that drilling for oil is somehow going to save our country.

McCain is a rich guy who has had government healthcare for the better part of what...45 years? Tell me when or how McCain understands about the average person buying healthcare? A $5,000 tax credit...I implore you to go out now and try to get a healthcare plan on your own without being your company's group -- it is almost impossible.

And frankly, even if I liked McCain, picking Sarah Palin over someone like Bobby Jindle from New Orleans is one of the most reckless moves I have ever seen. She is a moron. I would debate her on any political or geopolitical issues anywhere, anytime.

Vote for the smart guy who worked in the inner city, who can meet with world leaders and actually know what borders their country is on, who their ethnic groups are, and actually pronouce their names. Vote for the smart guy who mom is white and raised him as a single mom. Vote for the smart guy who can think and see our future and how to be great again.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

michaelzoe — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:06:36 GMT

what are you talking about?

REPUBLICANS have had the White House for 20 out of the last 28 years???? = DISASTER

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

phyllismleblanc — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:07:42 GMT

GOV. SARAH PALIN SUPPORTS GROUP CALLED; ALASKAN INDEPENDENCE PARTY WHO DOES NOT WANT TO BE A PART OF THE UNITED STATES. THIS, TO ME IS "TERRORIST PALLING AROUND" AMERICA NEEDS A WAKE UP CALL AND THIS IS IT! VIEW THE VIDEO OF PALIN IN SUPPORT OF WHAT THESE PEOPLE STAND FOR AND THEN CONTINUE YOUR SUPPORT OF MCCAIN/PALIN. IT IS SCARY AND CONFIRMS WHAT I HAVE THOUGHT ALL ALONG. THIS IS PROOF OF WHO IS TRYING TO GET INTO THE WHITE HOUSE. GO TO YOUTUBE AND VIEW GOV. SARAH PALIN'S SPEECH. YOU DECIDE. I THINK EVERYONE DESERVES A FAIR CHANCE IN LIFE, BUT WHEN PEOPLE SHOW YOU WHO THEY ARE...BELIEVE THEM! ALL'S FAIR IN LOVE AND WAR. PEACEANDLOVE TO OUR COUNTRY. MAY BE ONE DAY COME TOGETHER IN PEACE.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

billtill — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:07:53 GMT

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Omnius — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:08:06 GMT

This is no Country for Grumpy Old Men! The best moment of the debate was when the grumpy old man threw the gauntlet down on Obama answering "Joe" about how much his medical plan would fine "Joe". When Obama said "Zero" you could see the shock and surprise on the grumpy old man's face so easily. Obviously the grumpy old man didn't do his homework by reading the fine points of Obama's medical plan because all he focused on was that there were fines but not how they were going to be done.

The grumpy old man threw out the Ayers line and Obama shut him down bigtime. Stephen Colbert did a funny routine last week about that creepy right wingnut Michelle Malkin saying that not mentioning Ayers was a "Disaster" last week. Well he mentioned it last night and it was "Disaster" as it backfired on him.

The grumpy old man clearly was seen as a whiner by the viewers. I watched CNN post debate coverage and even their horde of repugnant one's pundits threw in the towel on their clueless losing candidate. It's game, set, match Debate Team Obama/Biden as they brought their brooms and swept the decrepit Dumb and Dumber ticket off the debate floor.

All the grumpy old man has left to do the next 19 days is write his concession speech!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

bigjimslick — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:08:19 GMT

The point that waterconserver makes is not very sold. He says raising taxes in a bad economy will always make things worse. First of all, Obama is not raising taxes, just changing the tax structure which I think is necessary when the middle class has not had a raise in 8 years while the top 5% of income earners have gotten a large raise in income. Second, look where the current tax structure has gotten us? You try to tell people to look at history. I would ask them to look only at the last 30 years, especially at the last 8. You could stop taxing people period right now and in one year the middle and lower class would still be in real trouble. Third, at some point we have to start attempting to balance the budget. I am pretty mad at the neo-conservatives who seem to love to spend money they dont have. They seem to want to keep fighting in Iraq and borrowing money to pay for it. Maybe we could end the occupation and bring more revenue into government so it does not go bankrupt? That is what a real fiscal conservative would do. McCain is not a fiscal conservative. I would rather have Ross Perot in there. Obama will balance the bidget faster than McCain and our government depends on that.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

SouthernIL52 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:10:09 GMT

Did anyone catch the additional $3,000 child tax credit McCain threw in at the second debate almost as if he just thought it up? How do you pay for that tax credit.? And what about those of us, one without children, who still need to pay our bills, or with children who no longer qualify because they are too old, or who don't get the credit because they are divorced and the other parent gets it. I've never gotten the credit although my son lives with me and I've signed away my credit. Already, the tax breaks that the credits have given my ex exceed the amount of child support he pays. (just a fact, I APPRECIATE that he willing pays, and I don't blame him because under the tax rules he always gets the credit. I signed it away because I wanted to be fair, I could have asked to alternate but did not. I never imagined I would actually lose more in tax breaks than I would receive in child support.)

I have to assume, on the other hand, there are men who pay huge amounts of child support who never get the credit either. Will the $3,000 help you--NO!

So now my health care benefits will be taxed and everyone, regardless of whether they have paid there own way with health care (or at least the part not paid by the employer) will get a $5,000 credit.

Do any of you participate in a Section 125 (cafeteria plan)? Some in Congress have already attempted to take that pre-tax benefit away. Taxing ALL health benefits will take that away also!

McCain, you are giving my tax dollars away and how will that be funded. Will taxing my health benefits jump me into the alternative minimum tax. Middle America, do you really believe this is not a tax increase?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Partoftheplan — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:10:27 GMT

The economy has already tanked it matters how much further we slide into socialism. No child left behind (republican plan) started it, bank takeover, and the take over of the oil industry could be the next part of the chain.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

tlmj2003 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:12:21 GMT

McCain is just another Bush and his erratically tactics and consistent outburst, immature gestures, and arrogance proved that on last night during the debate. I can care less about what happened when Obama was 8 yrs old. All I care about is my job, kids, home, and economic future. Everyone can sit and say what they like but the fact is that McCain has sat under Bush for 8yrs and has voted on at least half of his bogus bills. That's the truth.

Obama has walked in a lot of our shoes and regardless of what party he represents I truly believe he's about a positive change and at this moment we need CHANGE. Also there is no way I will help put McCain and his truly blissful VP pick Palin in office. We are destined to H*LL....Take a look around this mess didn't start over night think about it.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

cely99 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:12:38 GMT

But when did this historical disaster happen?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

KentuckyFootball Mom — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:13:32 GMT

I am glad the debate last night was the last one! I am so sick and tired of seeing McCain, behave like a spoiled, mean spirited kid. In the first debate, he wouldn't even look at Obama (childish), in the second debate, after everything Obama stated, he had to add a comment, that for the most part, had nothing to do with the question asked (childish) and in the debate last night, he tried every trick in his toy box from making a smart remark about not being President Bush to claiming to be a victim (childish), all in an effort to make Obama lose his cool, and fire back with the same ignorance. Although the comments comparing McCain to the folk who committed hate crimes in the 60's was completely out of line, they were not stated in Obama's presence, or by anyone at any of his or Bidden's rallies. On CNN, at one McCain/Palin rally, you could clearly hear the crowd yelling "off with his head" referring to Obama's head. The clip that was shown, did not show, either McCain or Palin, correcting or denouncing the supporters in thier rally for chanting such ignorance. Considering it was on CNN and probably all of the other news networks, I would assume that Obama was aware of this. He chose to take the high road and not throw it in McCain's face Obama's background, character, ability to lead, his ability remain calm and focus on the needs of the American people has been challenged, in every minute of this campaign. In each challenge, he has shown, that he is the real deal. A man with great love for his family, a man with love for his country, an intelligent man is able and ready to lead our country, in a direction, that will be a good place for us now, and for our childern in the future. 3 months ago, I wasn't sure which candidate to support, but McCain has made this major decision quite simple. McCain is NOT what American's need, not now, not ever.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

josemarti — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:20:33 GMT

Thank you Mr. McCain for your powerful defense of our values, and political principles. Thank you for giving voice to our concerns. We want better schools for out children. We want more opportunities. We want to see more personal responsibility. If you go forth and vigorously sound the themes of government REFORM, economic REBIRTH, and personal RESPONSIBILITY, you can win this election.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

waterconserver — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:23:33 GMT

Michaeal Zoe

The DEMOCRATS have controlled the Congress for 3 years = DISASTROUS ECONOMIC FALLOUT

And to canonbll - just wait until the DEMOCRATS get full control! Think things are bad now?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

yyba1 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:23:50 GMT

Shalom:

McCain showed the moral character of a leader. Orrecting Obama numrous times even in respect of his error in judgement with Ayers. Showing he's clearly the one worthy to be the US President, Obama showed he's of inferior character, an opportunist, with well honed spin and virtually no depth and really no CONTENT that's strategic for the US in the long term. McCain is much superior in this vital aspect of qualification.

And yet Obama will probably be elected, and this is the price for the US's extreme and lengthy tolerance of socialism in Washington, in the media and NOW sadly it's being thrust on us in the nation's highest office, as we're about to elect another "angry little boy," who's NOT just incompetent and emotionally immature (though well masked), he's as well dangerous. Michelle's (his wife) description was (in a slip of the tounge, on the TV program "The View") she said, descriptively of her husband Barack... "pathetic," and she's correct.

If elected, we'll merely be getting what the nation may well deserve, clearly as a punishment for our many national sins of greed avrice and extreme economic injustice. Obama as President will polarize the country, in the extreme, until he's out of office and what is certain to follow will significantly be influenced by his time in office, as it will move the nation to "Humanomics(sm)," which is the new East West "convergence model," that otherwise America would've ignored.

Tky, YYBA

US CItizen living abroad...

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

think4yourself — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:29:34 GMT

John McCain clearly won this debate. He had a lot of details in his plans for the economy, health and and Supreme Court decision that made since to me. I also learned some even more troubling things about Sen. Obama than I did before. He STILL wants to raise taxes in this economy and he would'nt identify not one program that he would have to cut to lower the debt. That to me shows an insentitivity to middle class and small businesses which are the backbone to this economy and job growth.

We are now learning that by "throwing money" at something (Bail out) is not going to to fix the of the economy so throwing more money at education and health is not going to do the same either. We need reform. Obama turely deserves the title " Senator Government"!

Sen Obama also REFUSED to answer key questions about his relationship with Ayers and ACORN and clearly lied when he couldnt dodge the questions. He just sat there smiling like the "Cheshire Cat"! We all now know his envolvment with them plus adding on to Rev. Wright is desturbing to me. It's insulting to my intelligence. And if he will lie in the face of the facts what will he not lie about? Every action that he has taken during the primary to the campaign shows that his words do not fit his actions. He did say that he would not take private fund and join McCain in campaign financing and he did not. He said that he would not vote for the gun bill the voted for it. He said that he would do town hall debates across this country with McCain but did not. What will Obama lie about next?

Look, there is just too much at stake to not only take a risk on someone who now shows is completely too inexperienced to run this country and combined with Nancy and Harry Reid... that's just a Depression waiting to happen. THAT'S NOT CHANGE I WANT TO BELIEVE IN!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

americandefender — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:32:32 GMT

The American people will no longer be distracted by the republican 3 ring circus act, sorry there are real issues to deal with we are in a recesion I am worried about keeping a roof over my head and food on the table for my family like most americans. Sorry the show is over it's time for reality. Go Obama!! Time for change.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Loden Green — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:06:15 GMT

McCain just gets more and more pathetic. He came across as a grumpy old attack dog with no clear message last night. He looked looked edgy and frustrated.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

News and Notes — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:10:21 GMT

I found Obama to be smug during the debate. As a moderate registered democrat for 25 years, I think Obama should show a more repect for McCain's age and accomplishment. He comes across as the little brother who causes all the trouble, and the big brother gets blamed. He has excuses for everything and explanations for nothing.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

akhajawall — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:10:23 GMT

The only Ticket is Obama-Biden

Dear concerned citizens of America and Mass Media of the U.S.A.As a concerned registered independent voter, forensic psychiatrist, disabled American I made my decision to vote after taking into consideration following joint tickets attributes and characteristics.

1. Has the ticket shown adequate calmness, coolness, and connectedness's under pressure to lead our nation [Presidential Temperament]?

2. Has the ticket shown sustained sound "Judgment and demeanor"?

3. Has the ticket shown adequate understanding of depth and degree to address the crucial challenges in their their purpose, policies, and positions [ Honesty, integrity and sincerity]?

4. Has the ticket sufficient "understanding and knowledge" of inside Washington workings [Experience]"?

5. Has the ticket reservoir resilience, wisdom, and vigor to address the present and future f our beloved "Great-grand Nation"?

6. Has the ticket enough joint foreign policy experience and exposure based on " Values, Virtues, Vastness, and " [American moral soul]"?

7. Has their campaign talk, slogans, ads, plans, and programs based on facts and are they free of fear, fiction, frivolous labels, unfair attacks, negativity, and impulsively? [No "imminent danger to national security and safety"].

8. Has the ticket genuinely kept on message of country first and politics last and avoided copying [Message change"]?

9.Has the ticket message stayed away from Culture divide and war[ Disaster prevention ]?

10. Has the ticket resisted being surrounded, supported and surrogate's by divisiveness, distortion's, and destructive characters, [ Real patriotism VS shiftiness and shameless parrot-ism]?

11. Has the ticket thoughtful, real non-partisan, & non-impulsive plans to address our current economic crisis or political tactics and temperamental statements.

I have personally and professionally concluded that OBAMA-BIDEN ticket will lift and inspire our greatgrand nation back to its greatness within and restore our global standing with the use of maximum, firm

international diplomacy and minimal force if and when indicated {" Peace thru Strenght "}.

12. The era of responsibility has to replace irresponsibility and unaccountability will change to accountability and transparency. The Wall Street greed will change to Main Street need.

13. Temperamental and Angry McCain is out to play and create a card mistrust and distress around Obama with the Vail of claim that he will bring bipartisanship in Washington DC. He is destroying him claim every by painting Obama naive. It is tragic, sad, and unfortunate that so called Maverick McCain has already generated a disdain and demeaning face off in the debates and bailout suggestion. Obama is real Presidential and he maintained a smile during the debate and while McCain had a constant grin and disdain towards Obama.

Yours sincerely,

COL. A.M.Khajawall [Ret] MD.

Forensic psychiatrist, Disabled American Veteran and Iraq

Freedom team. Grass roots California leader per Senator McCain's

PS: It is sad and unfortunate that Hon, Temperamental and angry Maverick McCain has changed into bitter rather than better man. ? Maverick McCain should join Obama team and help the country.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

lasvegasdesign — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:10:23 GMT

John McCain, I have one little song you will be hearing alot at your rallies. Na, Na, Na, Na...Na, Na, Na, Na...Hey, Hey, Goodbye!!!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

just jerry — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:10:46 GMT

Much as the primary season showed us, so does the actual election season show us. Barack Obama has been chosen and everything seen by the media is then from his perspective. I read today that McCain's ads were 100% negative while quoting the University of Wisconsin Madison as the source, when in fact the University of Wisconsin Madison study showed Obama had more negative ads showing tham McCain. Nobody would believe that given the way the media treats Obama as compared to McCain when it comes to negative ads. It is the same with the rest of the campaign. Obama is the media candidate and the media does have an influence.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

I_C_AMERICA_AS_U — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:16:14 GMT

A few things happened last night that were not in McCain's favor. The first obscenity that stands out was McCains attempt to reach Joe the Plumber, "You’re rich, congratulations, keep your money." Right there is the very reason retirement plans, college funds, and home ownership funds have melted away before our very eyes. The idea that once you reach an income threshold you are no longer held responsible for supporting your country at the same level at which you receive is not only elitist, but would go against basic Christian principal. Makes it very hard to believe that

The second very disturbing point McCain so strongly supported, was the idea that a women’s health (we who carry the child, and care for the child) is not important when deciding that abortion is necessary. That it holds no weight and is unimportant to the Right Wing agenda says to women all around the country that we are unimportant and should put our health at risk for the sake of their policy because our health does not matter to McCain and his cronies.

Lastly was the very tactless attempt to use autism as the platform to gain votes from families with special needs. First what makes autism more important than downs syndrome, more important than blindness and deafness, children with A.D.D - nothing other than the fact that Palin has a child with autism. I think families across the country could see that as a desperate reach for even one additional point in the polls; it was insensitive and heartless.

Of all of the topics brought up last night these are the things that stuck with me, and none of it favored McCain. Interestingly enough McCain did all of this damage on his own. His snickering, disruptive, and impatient demeanor only proved more that he is no leader, but a spoiled child used to getting his way at any cost. That type of behavior and lack of true policy reform will not win my vote.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Spacer — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:19:45 GMT

Lest I sound too negative, the debate wasn't all attacks, all the time. McCain had some strong moments. He rightfully scolded Obama for indiscriminately linking him to Bush. "Senator Obama, I am not President Bush," he said.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Romano must have had his corporate media filter over his TV screen while he was watching the debate. Obama did NOT linked McCain to Bush indiscriminately. He even complimented McCain for opposing Bush's torture policy shortly after McCain's astute observation that he wasn't George Bush.

Unfortunately, Obama was wrong to compliment McCain about his opposition to torture. McCain flip-flopped on torture in his last vote on the issue to the far right position like he has on nearly every other moderate position he's ever held. The vote approved the CIA's use of the water-boarding torture technique. Apparently, McCain now thinks torture is OK if the "good guys" are doing it.

I guess I'll have to forgive Obama for not keeping track of the numerous McCain flip-flops. He does catch more of McCain's posiiton reversals than media types like Romano, who seem never to notice any of McCain's scary flip-flops from earlier moderate positions to the positions of the lunatic fringe of the radical right..

Of course there are differences between McCain and Bush: McCain is shorter and older than Bush. Other than that, there's not much difference.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

AskPlus — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:20:04 GMT

Isn't it funny that only Reps believe they won the debate? They use words like "clearly" and "definitely" while the rest of the world, not just the US, saw Mr. Obama as the winner, going three-for-three. And every time Mr. McCain told a lie - which was most of the time - the little colorful lines drooped, and the Reps all sighed in concert. Clearly.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

bro15360 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:20:37 GMT

To: bigjimslick,

If the middle class wants a raise then they should go earn it. We all have the same opportunities to earn more money. You think you "deserve" a raise because you haven't gotten on in the last 8 years and it's the job of the President and the government to track down those who have truly earned it and give it to someone like you who is happy to sit back and watch TV instead of taking control of your life? Now that is pathetic.

I'm well aware of the 80/20 rule but the math just does not add up in the case of Obama. How in the world can he possibly lower taxes on 95% of the working public and 98% of small business and still "invest in" and spend billions of dollars to fund failing programs. Explain the 95/5 rule and the 98/2 rule to me because I simply don't get it.

Truth is, neither does Obama.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Susan50 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:25:36 GMT

You state McCain "rightfully scolded Obama for indiscriminately linking him to Bush." Yet, it is OK for McCain to link Obama to Ayers? Did Obama constantly vote with Ayers' opinions the last eight years?

By what right does McCain scold? He couldn't answer one question without sending a demeaning remark Obama's way. There is a way to get your point across without talking down to the other person. Even when asked to state the good points of each vice presidential pick ... Obama praises Biden, McCain praises Palin, and then McCain has to make negative statement about Biden's voting record ... "Joe was wrong." Apparently if any U.S. Senator does not vote McCain's way, they are wrong. God forbid they have a different opinion!

Finally, McCain doesn't even realize the difference between autism and Down's syndrome.

Susan50

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

sleepy bear — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:29:20 GMT

McCain looks like a very very angry Elmer Fudd.....It is painful to watch. Split screen debate viewing was not a good look for him.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

DavidE7 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:30:00 GMT

I congratulate the journalist for what I consider to be a very accurate portrayal of what happened at Hofstra University last night.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

peapod123 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:39:52 GMT

You guys would not give McCain a break if your life depended on it lets face it you want a black president not a good man you just want to prove america can do this. I am from the Chicago area I will not be voting for Obama because of his dirty laundry there is too much of it.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

cannonbll — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:48:42 GMT

If the best part of McCain's debate last night was "I'm not George Bush" .... then I feel sorry for the state of the republican party. McCain defines himself by dissassociation from the current mess of a presidency, yet all of the policies he's put out there tow the line. The only way this guy is a maverick is that he can't control his obvious anger problem .... and most American's see right through the bs.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

McDumb & McDumber — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:48:59 GMT

to bro15360...As a middle class American and teacher of math..maybe here's something that you may consider..the McCain-Bush policies of tax cuts for the wealthy DOES NOT create jobs!!! in fact last month 159,000 Americans LOST jobs..750,000 this year alone! but I guess you see middle class the same way McCain does...but try to remember the average middle class American doesnt have a couple of jets, 7 houses and 13 cars...thats your candidate..nor ours!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

billtill — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:00:52 GMT

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

JRWhittler — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:02:18 GMT

Samuel Johnson once said: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." When someone is painted into a corner during a debate or a campaign and finds himself in an increasingly hopeless situation, he tends to launch into ad hominem attacks that have nothing to do with the issues against his opponent and plays to the fears of the populace. It is a tactic that was perfected by Hitler's Brownshirts in 1932.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

MTR1973 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:05:04 GMT

Loriw, my dear, are you still on here ranting away? The American public that you so adamantly claim shares your bogus and Fox 'News' inspired 'concerns' about Acorn/Ayers doesn't exist. It's your fantasy, not reality.

Your refusal to accept/believe that most people - yes, MOST people - do not agree with you and are not falling for McCain's attempts to smear Barack Obama actually HELPS Obama. McCain's campaign is an atrocious mess because he, like you and others like you, simply can't grasp the concept that people DON'T believe what he's saying about Obama. This is most likely due to the nature of the pesky but persistent facts that have proven him to be wrong again and again and again. And facts, like a shorter hemline or cotton-poly blends, are thankfully back in fashion for the American electorate this fall!

And even if they do believe McHannity - as you do, bless your heart - many of them don't CARE anyway because they have nothing to do with the economy or any of the pressing issues facing our country. But since it's all McCain/Palin know how to talk about, by all means, I hope they continue. Every time they open their mouths to lie/smear Obama, Obama's numbers go up. Thank you!

So please, do go on with your rants about how Obama is 'in bed with' whoever you'd like - it doesn't and won't change the fact that, as you 'righties' like to say, most of the country is 'in the tank' for Obama and we're going to make him our next president. I hope you're in a room filled with soft things when that reality sets in on November 4th.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

jjgasp — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:06:19 GMT

JOE PLUMBER, WON'T BE HELPING MC CAIN, HE IS ***NOT*** REGISTERED TO VOTE!!! THIS IS WHO HE IS:

Joe the Plumber:

Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who"s Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating"s son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan. The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years.

What a "coincidence"!

Joe the Plumber's plumbing license EXPIRED in 2002.

Hard to BE a plumber with an EXPIRED LICENSE!

Go to the below link & type in Joe's last name "Wurzelbacher" & find out how many Wurzelbacher's WERE and ARE licensed as a plumber in Ohio ...

http://elicense1-lookup.com.ohio.gov/SearchCriteria.asp

You"ll need to type in:

Board: Ohio Construction Industry Licensing Board

Last Name: Wurzelbacher

State: Ohio

Results: the ONLY Wurzelbacher is Lawrence NOT JOE (must be Joe's first name) and Wurzelbacher's license EXPIRED in 2002.

So Joe isn't registered to vote AND Joe is NOT a licensed plumber.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Shyam — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:13:15 GMT

McDumb & McDumber (October 16, 2008 at 11:48 AM)

This is America not Cuba, not Venezuela, not Bolivia, then why our presidential candidates have to be proletariat. Particularly a man who SPENT FIVE YEARS IN AN ENEMY PRISON, should not have what McCains have. I don't have those but I don't care. The question is who will be better for us. McCain-Palin will be a lot better for us that Obama. Obama's economic mission is very clear to me: ROB WHITES, ASIANS, JEWS, and give it to AFRICAN AMERICANS, called SPREADING THE WEALTH. That will kill this economy and make it look like those of Cuba or Bolivia. That's what Fidel Castro did and see what happened. Obama's focus is to SPREAD THE WEALTH and NOT ADVANCING THE COUNTRY. That's the difference between Obama and McCain.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

nimodahooligan — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:13:21 GMT

obama has the election nailed now...no question, unless something tragic happens to the country, to our countries interests, or to obama himself he will be president. he acted like a president, he spoke like a president, he address's issues and problems like a president should....with his brain. he stayed on topic, and although both candidates avoided completely answering some questions i completely feel obama gave the most well explained answers. mccain continued his attacks, and obama brushed them off... mccain is old, wealthy, republican, and out of touch with "joe the plumber" (my best friends dad is a plumber, works by himeself with no employees and makes 500,000+ a year, just from what i hear...he charges up to 250 an hr...thats not middle class, thats high pay blue collar work). anyway those 3 points alon are enough to put his campaign on the ropes... the youngest voter generation has seen 8 years of conflict, of economic problems, environmental problems...all under a republican administration. they dont have a chance, and mccain is done now.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

cria0913 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:13:43 GMT

Democrats Take Control on Hill

By Jonathan Weisman and Shailagh Murray

Washington Post Staff Writers

Friday, January 5, 2007; Page A01

waterconserver - The DEMOCRATS have controlled the Congress for less than 2 years!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Pocolodi — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:18:23 GMT

jjgasp,

Who cares if Joe the Plumber doesn't have a license at present? (your amature detective work is just that) It has nothing to do with Obama's "spread the wealth around" comment he made. He has just confirmed his agenda of taking it from those who have worked hard and earned what they have, and giving it to those who have not.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Shyam — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:21:01 GMT

nimodahooligan

I don't think so. I am from Blue State of New Jersey. I don't see any enthusiasm for OBAMA. I predict NJ will go for McCain-Palin. No one with common sense other than those who want a "non-white" for President for their racial personal reasons, interested in Obama.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Pocolodi — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:21:59 GMT

jjgasp,

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

LTD1 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:23:51 GMT

Let’s answer the first question first . . . did Senator McCain say anything in this debate to change his position in the polls?

No.

Second question . . . did Senator Obama say anything in this debate to change his position in the polls?

No.

So, what happened?

Senator John McCain started out talking about the anger of American voters but he spent most of the debate showing his anger toward Senator Obama . . . as if McCain is more against Obama becoming President than he is for McCain becoming President.

In response to Obama’s point about McCain policies being the same as Bush policies, McCain said, “Senator Obama, I’m not President Bush. If you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have run four years ago.”

Senator Obama apologized for confusing McCain with George W. Bush but pointed out it was hard to tell the difference because McCain voted so often with Bush policies.

John McCain attacked, attacked, and then attacked some more, working hard, playing catch up, trying his best to bad-mouth Barack Obama out of his lead in the polls. McCain was clearly angry and sounded petulant as he worked through his litany of complaints about Senator Obama and his campaign.

When McCain brought the old Weatherman Bill Ayres into the debate, CNN audience reaction dropped dramatically . . . making it clear that the ‘guilt-by-association’ tactic used so often by McCain and Palin may well have backfired.

Obama simply explained the Ayres relationship for what it was: He served on a board with William Ayres along with a number of other people like the President of the Chicago Tribune and the President of Northwestern University and that was that.

The McCain campaign failed to ask and answer an important question: On a day when the Dow Jones average dropped more than 700 points, were people watching this debate really concerned about Senator Obama’s ‘relationship’ with a man who committed crimes when Obama was eight years old?

Though he tried to explain his health care plan through gritted teeth, McCain did not say anything specific to convince anyone that his plan was superior to the Obama plan.

While Senator McCain rolled his eyes and scowled, Senator Obama calmly detailed his health care plan and assured voters that the McCain claim that the Obama health care plan fines small business and individuals was totally false.

McCain gave us a number of platitudes about how we ‘have to improve education’ and ‘we need to encourage businesses’ but he didn’t say anything specific about what he would do as President to resolve any of the domestic or foreign issues we face as a nation . . . so there probably won’t be a shift in the McCain poll numbers as a result of this debate.

While Senator McCain was busy trying to score ideological points to please the Republican base, Senator Obama talked about how his economic plan would create jobs, eliminate penalties for early withdrawals from IRA and KEOGH accounts, increase federal assistance to cities and states, and postpone foreclosures for ninety days.

By the way, what am I talking about when I say that ‘Joe the plumber’ won the debate?

I’m talking about Joe Wurzelbacher (referred to as Joe Wurzberger by John McCain), a plumber who caught up with Barack Obama recently at a rally in Ohio to express his concerns about how Obama’s tax policies might prevent him from buying the company he works for.

McCain used ‘Joe the plumber’ to accuse Senator Obama of proposing tax increases and a health care plan that would prevent working men and women from becoming entrepreneurs. Unfortunately, the fact checkers have proven that the Obama tax and health care plans do nothing to increase the cost of doing business for all the ‘Joe the plumbers’ of this country.

Who spent more time attacking in tonight’s debate?

Eighty percent of voters surveyed by CNN said John McCain spent more time attacking while only seven percent said Obama spent more time attacking.

And did the attacks help or hurt the candidates?

According to a CBS poll of uncommitted voters, 53% said Obama won, 24% said the candidates tied, while 22% said McCain won.

I’m reminded of the infamous Al Gore/George W. Bush debate where Gore lost the edge with a sigh; in fact, I’m thinking that McCain lost all three 2008 presidential debates because of affect . . . the scowls, the eye rolls, the grumpy grunts, etc.

And now, I’m wondering, did John McCain seem more like a ‘President’ tonight or did he seem more like the grumpy old man next door who used to shout at you to get off his lawn?

Huh?

Thanks for listening . . .

l.t. Dravis

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

BoogieStik — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:24:16 GMT

Two glaring misrepresentations show that the "Joe the plumber" story is bogus.

First, it makes the assumption that there's some magic threshold at $250000, as if an individual would get a refund at $249999 and a big tax bill at 250000. That's not how it works.

Second, Joe said he wanted to buy a business for $250-270000. Nobody's talking about taxing business purchases. An expense like that would remain a legitimate deduction from income under the Obama tax plan, and would reduce Joe's taxes.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

midnight05 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:29:58 GMT

The "airquotes" may have cost McCain more than Obama's polished and Zen-llike performance. The absolute contempt for the health of women was so striking. How dare he? Obama refuted him beautifully. I am not pro-abortion but my cousin almost lost her life when her unborn child had a stroke in utero. Had the baby not died, she wouild have required an abortion to save her life -- an abortion in a six month's gestation fetus. There are other women in the same boat and nobody but the woman's doctor can make the decisions needed. Obama rightly said that the reason he voted against the late-term bill was that it didn't have a life-health exception and that is absolutely a valid reason to vote against a bill. John McCain is repeating the Eagle Forum line that no abortion should be permitted even in the event of a woman's imminent death. Forget the fact taht it would also kill the child she was carrying. That's irrelevant to the Neanderthals of the right

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

sportlock009 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:31:46 GMT

When McCain told Obama if he wanted to run against George Bush, he should have ran for president four years ago. Didn't Obama's face look like he had been bytch slapped? lol

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

4carol — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:34:14 GMT

I C America As U reply:

You are right on, girl!!

The plumber thing to me was only drug out to try to make MCShame look good....DIDN'T WORK!!

The idea that the "health of a woman" concerning abortion is irrelevant made me want to scream; and I am 64 years old. How dare he!!!

Also, I am the grandmother of a mildly autistic child; and for him to use that and that alone (just because of Palin's child) as a pawn to entice more votes is insulting and degrading!!!

Believe it or not (and sometimes I can't), at one time I actually respected this person for his service to our country and his integrity.........but he no longer respects himself and he continually shows it!!!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

concerned for us all — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:34:27 GMT

I heard alot of double speak from Mc Cain in the 3rd debate. Did anyone else catch him first say that teachers needed to be 'qualified' and doing a good job or else find other employment. etc, Then he says that War Vets coming back could become teachers WITHOUT qualifications?This was within a few sentances. I don't know about you, but to me that sounds like not only double standards, but more like Mc Cain was not remembering what he had just said and how it conflicted. Can you imagine him doing that in a foreign policy situation. Not remembering what he said to foreign leadership and contradicting himself? Boy wouldnt that go over well. Visually he seemed glassy eyed, fumbling in his speech, and looking extreemly ILL with a swollen face.

I am fearing he would not hold up physically and mentally in the pressure of office from what I saw. It would not be long before Palin would have to take over his duties, and I'm not prepared to have HER as president. No way, No how.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Catalina13 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:37:36 GMT

Shyam - "Obama's economic mission is very clear to me: ROB WHITES, ASIANS, JEWS, and give it to AFRICAN AMERICANS" and "No one with common sense other than those who want a "non-white" for President for their racial personal reasons, interested in Obama"

Making an argument against Obama based on the color of his skin is wrong and downright embarrassing. Obama has proven to be intelligent, clear and by far the best choice as our next president. Please stick to the issues at stake and drop your outdated racist mindset.

- Single, white female from Los Angeles

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

BoogieStik — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:37:58 GMT

What's going on here? I've heard 3 separate and conflicting things, some from Joe himself.

Is Joe's personal income $250,000 per year?

Are Joe's business revenues $250,000 per year?

Is Joe trying to buy a business for $250-270,000?

Joe, please get your story straight.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

websmith — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:38:21 GMT

Joe has the American Dream. Why would he dream and strive to make more only to have it taken from him? In order to get city, state, and other general contractor work, Joe the Plumber will be hiring union plumbers. They get their health insurance through the union. It is deducted from their paychecks. Union plumbers cost Joe a lot more money than scabs, but a lot less money in law suits because they know how and why to do things the right way. Joe now knows that neither one of these guys have a clue and he is really, really worried.

The bank bailout worries Joe, too, because he knows that the population has just had more wealth taken from them and they won't be able to afford to hire him.

http://ewebsmith.com/Finance/playboys.html

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Limpingmoose — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:38:40 GMT

What about the GaGa factor.? Was McCain confusing autism and "Down syndrome? Did he forget Michele Obama's first name ("your wife") Its scarey. Does no one dare mention it?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

sportlock009 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:38:57 GMT

Newsweek, your dead wrong. I was positive I was voting for Obama before the last debate. Now, well, I'm not so sure. I think McCain made a very valid point that Obama seems to think he is running against Bush jr. Also pointing out the many times he has crossed party lines to better the peoples situations versus Obama only being able to provide one instance he has done the same. John hit it right on the head, very unconvincing at best being able to cross the line only when you first became a senator. As for the rest of the time 96% of the time Obama pushed his parties agenda. Home run for McCain at the least. I just wish Newsweek would speak as if they are voicing their own opinion instead of writing this garbage as if it were everyone who thinks as they do.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Americans First — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:38:59 GMT

"My friends", the disturbing, irritating and obvious over-use of "Joe the plumber" is nothing more than an unforgivable and feeble attempt by a now irrelevent candidate to create a false sense of understanding and empathy with the American public. It's also a very good way to distract the public from actually receiving a clear and substantive response for any of the questions asked since it's extremely obvious there is no substance or quality he or his party can actually provide.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Anticrisis — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:39:42 GMT

The questions asked of what the candidates thought of the other candidate's VP pick was telling - McCain ravaged Joe Biden's decisions and his thought process (still friend's?)

but when Schiefer lobbed that slow pitch to Obama, Obama showed more restraint than imaginable - a class act - I know of few people that would have crushed that ball with a reply like 'McCain's pick - that speaks for itself' or 'you mean the unaccountable, wordsmith bumbler that is Palin?'

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Jim Johnson — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:42:53 GMT

Obama's view of the future of America - Socialism which is the next step to Communism!!

Under socialism a ruling class of intellectuals, bureaucrats and social planners decide what people want or what is good for society and then use the coercive power of the State to regulate, tax, and redistribute the wealth of those who work for a living. In other words, socialism is a form of legalized theft.

The morality of socialism can be summed-up in two words: envy and self-sacrifice. Envy is the desire to not only possess another's wealth but also the desire to see another's wealth lowered to the level of one's own. Socialism's teaching on self-sacrifice was nicely summarized by two of its greatest defenders, Hermann Goering and Bennito Mussolini. The highest principle of Nazism (National Socialism), said Goering, is: "Common good comes before private good." Fascism, said

Mussolini, is "a life in which the individual, through the sacrifice of his own private interests??realizes that completely spiritual existence in which his value as a man lies."

Socialism is the social system which institutionalizes envy and self-sacrifice: It is the social system which uses compulsion and the organized violence of the State to expropriate wealth from the producer class for its redistribution to the parasitical class.

Despite the intellectuals' psychotic hatred of capitalism, it is the only moral and just social system.

Capitalism is the only moral system because it requires human beings to deal with one another as traders--that is, as free moral agents trading and selling goods and services on the basis of mutual consent.

Capitalism is the only just system because the sole criterion that determines the value of thing exchanged is the free, voluntary, universal judgement of the consumer. Coercion and fraud are anathema to the free-market system.

It is both moral and just because the degree to which man rises or falls in society is determined by the degree to which he uses his mind. Capitalism is the only social system that rewards merit, ability and achievement, regardless of one's birth or station in life.

Yes, there are winners and losers in capitalism. The winners are those who are honest, industrious, thoughtful, prudent, frugal, responsible, disciplined, and efficient. The losers are those who are shiftless, lazy, imprudent, extravagant, negligent, impractical, and inefficient. [What about the role of luckbeing in the right place at the right time or the wrong place at the wrong time? R. R. Pope}

Capitalism is the only social system that rewards virtue and punishes vice. This applies to both the business executive and the carpenter, the lawyer and the factory worker.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

gavpat — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:43:15 GMT

Well written article, thank you. I thought McCain started stronger than he has and had Oboma on the ropes but then shot himself down this time by firing attack after attack that didn't seem to flow. It made seem angry and frustrated old man rather than polished and presidential leader. If he did what he did in the first 30 minutes in all the other debates, this would be a much closer race but I think that its too little too late to turn the tide towards a historic moment in the history of the United States.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

sportlock009 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:44:11 GMT

4carol,

Why don't you word your post.... It didn't work with me, and nothing would have. Seems that would have been the more truthful post wouldn't it. For the majority of Obama supporters McCain could have had a cape streaming from his azz and you wouldn't have thought twice about your candidate. Im confused on why most in the bag Obama fans are here. I've always considered blogs like these to be a means to educate the voters who want information. Apparently you have the information you desire because your in the bag with what the media tells you to believe. Ok good you've made up your mind. So why are you still here?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

minneapolitan — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:49:31 GMT

Depending on which way you are leaning, everyone will say ,"My candidate won the debate handily". While some saw McCaine as forceful and competent (finally), why did he wait for the debate to talk about substance. Instead he goes along flinging crap and then demands an apology when some of it lands on him. He came across to me as agressive and slightly manic with plenty of whining thrown in. One of my co-workers said she wanted to stop at Target and pick up a box of Pampers and mail them to him (she is a Republican). I am tired of hearing about Mr. McCain's service and political record; what has he done besides being a veteran and politcian?

Is another comment I read this morning true (if anyone out there knows for sure) that "Joe, the plumber was related to Keating (Keating Five) and was a plant at the Obama rally or is this guy just speculating and trying to dig up more mud against the McCain campaing (curious minds want to know). Ms. Palin was a poor choice when there are so many more experienced people out there and to listen to Mr. McCain extol on her accomplishments was like listening to a desperate man trying to justify himself. If he was simply trying to garner the approval of undecided female voters or those unhappy about Hilary Clinton not being nominated, shame on him. We are not ignorant.

I don't want someone in the number two position that uses her authority to grind her axe. We have already had those kinds of politicians in office for the past, particularly the last eight years.

Obama was collected, thoughtful, and composed for the most part as I would expect the person elected into the highest office in our land to be. Was he put on the defensive (Ayers and Acorn accusaions), yes. I thought he was dignified and made a little bit of a fool of Mr. McCain.

If you don't have a preponderance of experience in all aspects of the office (job), you seek it out and surround yourself with people who are qualified and do have the experience as it appears Mr. Obama has done and will continue to do.

I want a fresh start and strong leadership and I believe I will get that when I cast my vote for Obama/Biden next month.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

klebrun — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:00:36 GMT

Anarchy in the financial markets.

The four worst financial disasters of the last 100 years have come at the end of Republican administrations that have aggressively promoted deregulation in the financial markets.

The Great Depression starting in 1929 came during the third consecutive Republican term, the October 1987 stock market crash and the Savings and Loan disaster surfaced in the second Reagan term and the current financial market disaster in Bush’s second term.

The Republican party which speaks so vociferously about law and order on the streets speaks with an equal fervor for deregulation - best described as outright anarchy in the financial markets.

McCain/Palin promise to fix the deregulation problem while getting government off our backs. The latter is conservative speak for more deregulation – directly contradicting their promise to fix the deregulation problem.

The problem with total deregulation is that it drives the markets to the lowest common denominator. It is like a football game with no rules, no referees and a lot of very bright, greedy and marginally ethical players hell-bent to win.

We need to get back to a balance of regulations and entrepreneurship that is neither overly burdensome nor suicidal in the implementation. We have had it in the past and we can have it again, but not under another Republican administration.

US Naval Academy 66 for Obama

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

nnyan — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:04:06 GMT

@sportlock009. PLEASE give it a rest. No one believes you thought for one second to vote for Obama. That is such a lame ploy to claim support and then come up with even lamer reasons why you're not going to vote for Obama.

You watched all three debates and you come away with McBush making a point that Obama thinks he's Bush? You're kidding right? Go look at McCains OWN words, he made a concerted effort to be as close to bush as possible. The point is that he (said it himself) voted 90% the same as Bush. The claim is that McCain will be different but he isn't he will follow the same path as Bush. McCain keeps telling people to go to the record and that is HIS record. To then try to hide behind the lame argument "he's not Bush" is intellectually dishonest. He made himself to be like Bush now he has to live with it.

Hey guess what? I was going to vote for McCain but now that I see him for the angry person he is and the lack of any substance or character I'm not going to vote for him.

- He was against torture until he was for it and sided with Bush and allowed water boarding and extreme measures by the CIA

- He was against the Bush tax cuts until he was for them.

- Supported Amnesty until he was against it.

- Was for his OWN Immigration bill until he was against it.

- Was FOR Ethynol (in Iowa) but now he doesn't.

- Claimed we were better off in the last 8 years until he didn't think so.

- Supported gay marriage and civil unions until he was against it.

- Against the Confederate Flag until he was against it (and admitted his support was cowardly)

- Against agent of intolerance (he named Falwell) until he was for them.

You know when he suddenly sold his soul and went against everything he stood for? When he decided he needed to become like BUSH. Yeah right you were voting for Obama. Right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFVatXy8Bhc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90nF2anI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLfsG8XKWfw

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

nnyan — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:06:50 GMT

RIght Bush is buying banks and you're worried about Obama being a socialist? LMAO.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

dvanhorn — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:11:40 GMT

John Galt couldn't have said it better, Jim Johnson. Pure capitalism sounds great, just, and right, but the problem is that there is no such thing as pure capitalism in the real world. In fact, right now, America is a pretty fascist country. Our government gives huge subsidies to big corporations to keep them afloat, meanwhile creating trade rules and tax exemptions which reward the corporations, and finally, allow the corporations to do whatever they want, ethically and environmentally, at the expense of the people who the government serves. When government and private corporations work in collusion, that's fascism.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

mlbuie — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:13:04 GMT

I've heard enough.. and I'm voting today or tomorrow. Guess for who? Let's say it WON'T be for an angry man who relies on tearing someone down rather than explaniing how he plans to build us and the country back up.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

hemlock3630 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:15:35 GMT

Looks like "joe the Plumber" doesn't pay his taxes anyway, so what's his beef?

LUCAS COUNTY COURT OF COMMON PLEAS

J. BERNIE QUILTER, CLERK

700 ADAMS STREET

TOLEDO, OHIO

MONETARY AMOUNT: $1,182.98

DEPT OF TAXATION STATE OF OHIO

Defendant 1:

WURZELBACHER SAMUEL J

30 DERBYSHIRE RD

TOLEDO, OH 43615

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Heldenhammer — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:16:01 GMT

Generally, I saw the debate as going very strong for McCain initially, until he got distracted by the negative campaigning. He had a hard time wiping the contempt from his face when looking at Obama and his jokes continue to fall flat upon any audience I've watched or listened to.

I had a problem with McCain comparing the negative comments made by Obama supporters (at worst, calling him erratic or 'old man') to those made against Obama at his own rallys (terrorist, kill him and the infamous monkey doll). McCain sounded like he had a lump in his throat and his feelings were hurt, meanwhile Obama simply stated what he'd heard from McCain's rallys, did not get upset about it or condemn McCain. That sort of cool headed reserve is necessary. What is McCain going to do when Iran calls him far worse than erratic? Blow off the hilt or will he remain calm and mature, not sinking to cry over name calling?

He lost me again after he went into abortion. There is very powerful ad out there now, short and succinct. It shows a young woman talking to the camera about how she was raped and thereafter became pregnant. Nearly breaking down she talked about how Palin and McCain would take away that choice. That she didn't have the choice to be raped, she should at least have a choice about this. Very powerful.

McCain then seemed to 'support' Obama when Obama revealed that he will not fine small business owners for not providing health care. "Congratulations Joe, you're rich."

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

dave-kansas city — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:18:51 GMT

FACT: BIDEN EARNED $2.49 MILLION IN THE LAST 10 YEARS BUT HAS GIVEN LESS THAN $3,000 TO CHARITY. MY GUESS IS THE PLUMBER HAS BY GIVEN WAY MORE THEN .001% OF HIS INCOME TO CHARITY. WAKE UP AMERICA, LIBERALS ARE ALWAYS WILLING TO GIVE AWAY OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY!!!!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

cowen_sheba — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:20:42 GMT

I love the hatchet vs scalpel metaphor in regards to the current spending. With a deficit as large as we have currently, regardless of where it came from, we have to tighten things up to get things back on track. Obviously taxes will have to raise for some and programs that are not working will need to be fixed. I feel that McCain nitpicks on small words, small issues to cloud the fact that he's generally offbase on most of the issues.

We can't have a hothead in the driver's seat after the last 8 years we've just gone through. We need someone intelligent and level headed to steer us into the right direction. McCain is just not that person.

Oh and if I hear McCain sidestep an issue while throwing out the word "bi-partisan" one more time, I'm going to scream.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

erk41982 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:21:35 GMT

Can wee have a bill passed that gives us an option to drop both candidates and bring in to new ones. Think I'm gonna vote for mccain because at least the economic damaging crap he spews will never make it through a democratic congress unlike oboma's tax raising economic damaging crap

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Jim Johnson — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:22:47 GMT

Obama's view of the future of America - Socialism which is the next step to Communism!!

Mussolini, is "a life in which the individual, through the sacrifice of his own private interests??realizes that completely spiritual existence in which his value as a man lies."

Despite the intellectuals' psychotic hatred of capitalism, it is the only moral and just social system.

Capitalism is the only social system that rewards virtue and punishes vice. This applies to both the business executive and the carpenter, the lawyer and the factory worker.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

dave-kansas city — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:23:52 GMT

michelle obama- the unhappiest millionaire on record

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Fisherman144 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:26:37 GMT

Obviously Mr. McCain, and I use the prefix weakly, is a dodering old fool who is past his time. He looked mad and frustrated. He tried but didn't make the cut. I don't feel sorry for the old guy, but I do feel that the American People have had their time wasted and their attention lost on this man & his chosen VP plumbing, six-pack, hockey mom. No matter what he tried, it looked very forced, and seemed like the rantings of a pubescent angry teenager.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Nowforthetruth — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:42:10 GMT

Whether McCain won or lost is not relevant. He succeeded in the first half hour to plant the seeds of a Reagan style wipeout. Reputable historians and economists overwhelmingly agree that the taxation imposed by and the "stimulus" spending and public works programs of FDR actually deepened and prolonged the Great Depression. It was the production demands of WWII that got the economy going again. And when the war was over, the economy promptly went into recession.

Point is, Obama's programs are tax and spend, and it does not really matter who he taxes, those taxes are going to be passed through the economy. Any first year economics student knows that taxation is a tool used to contract an economy experiencing inflation, because it reduces demand by reducing the amount of money individuals and businesses have to spend. It is contractionary, which is exactly what you do not want to do when the problem is that the economy is contracting already into recession. Like FDR, Obama's plans will only make it worse for longer.

Obama's tax and spending plans alone would be bad enough, but add Reid and Pelosi to the mix, with the three of them controlling both houses of Congress and the executive without and effective restraint, and you have something that should be something that causes concern even among moderate Democrats. Don't think so? Watch and listen to a C-SPAN video clip of the Congressional hearings at roughly the time McCain's attempt at S.190. to fix fannie and freddie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

nnyan — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:44:50 GMT

McBush is worth at least 20-32 million (at least after he divorced his crippled wife and married into money). Since 2001 he's given at least $950K to his McCain foundation which then went and spent more then $500K of that on elite schools (most of this given WHILE his children were attending these schools). What does that have to do with anyone being a socialist? Do you even know what logic is?

Right, Mr Plumber doesn't pay his own taxes but you think he donates to charity.

Let me ask you something dave-kansas city, when the Bush administration doubles the national debt from $5 trillion to $10 trillion who's money do you think that is? When it comes time to pay that off where do you think the money will come from?

I always have to smile when people make claims about others having to understand the fundementals of something. I'm sure dave-kansas city that you are just the expert on the american economy that this current crises needs!

You talk about handouts to people but don't seem bothered by the corporate handouts to big oil and big business. Is universal healthcare a handout? We already have a form of that and it's called the emergency room. That's where anyone with no insurance or is under insured goes to for treatment. And who do you think is currently paying for that?

You're worried that Obama is a socialist but you don't seemed bothered by the Bush administration nationalizing financial institutions? Do you even know what socialism is?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

millerm84 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:49:30 GMT

Jim Johnson if capitalism is the only just system then lets let justice prevail, take back that socialist $700Billion bailout, let the banks and the homeowners take the fall in the name of proper capitalism. Oh you don't want to let banks fail and homeowners bankrupt? Pure capitalism is bad for consumers, just as pure socialism is bad for business. It will take a balanced approach to fix our current crisis and steady our nation for all time to come. But to suggest that one is moral and one is not is folly, both systems have weaknesses, neither is evil.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Idge — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:50:52 GMT

Jim Johnson, do you think reposting the same rant twice will make it suddenly true. I guess your sticking with the tried and true repugnitan game plan. Repeat something often enough and people will start to believe it.

there are winners and losers in capitalism.

The winners are those who are honest, industrious, thoughtful, prudent, frugal, responsible, disciplined, and efficient.

The losers are those who are shiftless, lazy, imprudent, extravagant, negligent, impractical, and inefficient

So the CEOs who walked away from the market meltdown multi-millionaires, after driving their companies (and the global economy) into the ground, are the former, and most of the rest of us the later I guess.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

neos — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:53:43 GMT

McCains adoption of Rovian tactics and selection of the ethically challenged doomed his campaign. Will the 2000 model of John McCain please stand up and lose with dignity?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

neos — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:54:49 GMT

Mr. Johnson seems to talk as though he is a 50's right wing anti-communist crusader which might be just as sad. Marxism was a logical and compassionate response to 19th century laisse faire capitalism which saw 10-12 hour work days, 6 days a week, child labour, horrendous and hazardous working conditions and a general disregard of the human needs of the labor work force, These two idealogies butted heads and some results were the failure of a brutal Communism in the Soviet Union and the eclipse of unregulated Capitalism in the united States and Europe. In its stead a new syncretism arose which maintained the dynamic drive of capitalism tempered by governmental regulations designed to insure a degree of fairness for the common man. Medicare, Social Security, Minumum Wage, Occupational and Safety Health Standards regulations all attest to a socialist parentage. The point is that he should realize that the great war between Communism and Capitalism has reached a truce resulting in the synthesis which is modern American socio-economic reality. Join the future, Mr. McCarthy.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

nimodahooligan — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:01:53 GMT

to shyam:

i dont care about race, or color, or creed, or religion...

i care about a person who can remain calm when faced with attacks both personal and otherwise...i care about a a person that grew up with struggles, that knows what the other side of the fence looks like (mccain was part of a prominant military family with clout in politics)...i care about negotiating with countries instead of dropping bombs on them as a solution...i care about intelligence over military experience and being a POW (how does that qualify you to be president in the first place?), i care about a qualified running mate that has seen at least mexico for christ sake, i care about seperating state and religion, i care alot about someone saying and supporting polar opposites (pro war, pro life...its ok to kill innocent adults/childeren as collateral from a bombing, but having an abortion is an abomination), i care alot about someone saying that war is gods plan, i care about drilling off of our shores...i care about thinking outside the box, i care about alot of things...but race is not one of them....

right now most of the american people dont want another well to do, wealthy old republican in office...period. thats the stereotype of a bad politician thanks to the last 8 yrs of administration. why in the world would i, being a hard working lower-middle class american, want a man in office that owns 7 homes across the country, wears 500$ shoes, and thinks the middle class income starts at $250,000 plus? not to mention hes an heir to a massive fortune. hes angry, hes frustrated, flustered, not very mature for being 72 pushing 73...constantly using personal attacks on obamas character and associates when the enitre country is looking for answers to war, poverty, bad economy... hes out of touch and he just lost the presidential bid because of it...he doesnt understand what it takes to be a president...how to act, speak, and think clearly and without religion involved in all decisions made...

palin was the coffin maker, and the debate was the last nail in the coffin...they are done.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

haynessemperfi — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:03:54 GMT

Ralph Nader's Achievements

Some of the books Ralph Nader has written or helped produce:

Unsafe at Any Speed

Action for a Change(with Donald Ross, Brett English, and Joseph Highland)

Whistle-Blowing (with Peter J. Petkas and Kate Blackwell)

Corporate Power in America (with Mark Green)

You and Your Pension (with Kate Blackwell)

The Consumer and Corporate Accountability

Corporate Power in America

Taming the Giant Corporation (with Mark Green and Joel Seligman)

Verdicts on Lawyers

The Menace of Atomic Energy (with John Abbotts)

The Lemon Book

Who's Poisoning America (with Ronald Brownstein and John Richard)

The Big Boys (with William Taylor)

Winning the Insurance Game (with Wesley Smith and J. Robert Hunter)

Canada Firsts

The Frugal Shopper (with Wesley Smith)

Collision Course (with Wesley Smith)

No Contest: Corporate Lawyers and Perversion of Justice in America (with Wesley Smith)

The Ralph Nader Reader

Cutting Corporate Welfare

Crashing the Party: Taking on the Corporate Government in an Age of Surrender

Instrumental in the passing of the following legislation:

Clean Air Act

Clean Water Act

Consumer credit disclosure law

Consumer Product Safety Act

Co-Op Bank Bill

Federal Coal Mine Health and Safety Act

Foreign Corrupt Practices Act

Freedom of Information Act

Funeral home cost disclosure law

Law establishing Environmental Protection Agency

Medical Devices safety

Mine Health and Safety Act

Mobile home safety

National Automobile and Highway Traffic Safety Act

National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act

Natural Gas Pipeline Safety Act

Nuclear power safety

Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSHA)

Pension protection law

Safe Water Drinking Act

Tire safety & grading disclosure law

Whistleblower Protection Act

Wholesome Meat Act

Wholesome Poultry Product Act

VOTE RALPH NADER. WHEN STAYING HOME ISN'T A OPTION.

FREEDOM ISN'T FREE....

WWW.VOTENADER.ORG

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

nnyan — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:04:27 GMT

I love it. McBush proposes $300 billion in new spending, claims earmarks will pay for them and you buy it. I see another "Read My Lips...No New Taxes" fiasco. Yep you can spend all you want and we'll count on the magic fairy of earmarks to pay for them. Love it.

Oh and now we have Nowforthetruth with the "Fannie and Freddie" caused the financial crises and ate christmas!!! Yeah the dem's have to take their share on Fan and Fred as do the republicans, no one is clean on that one. But F/F are not the cause of the current financial problems. Deregulation and weak oversight are.

1933: Banking Act of 1933 "Glass-Steagall". Mandates the separation of investment banking and commercial banking.

In the mid-1980s a Federal Reserve Board stocked with Reagan-Bush appointees began reinterpreting Glass-Steagall in a series of actions that slowly expanded the ability of banks to engage in other financial operations.

1988-1996: Four legislative attempts by republicans were made to weaken or repeal parts of Glass-Steagall.

1990: The Federal Reserve Board, under former J.P. Morgan director Alan Greenspan, permitted J.P. Morgan to become the first bank allowed to underwrite securities.

1996: Alan Greenspan issued a ruling allowing bank investment affiliates to have up to a quarter of their business in investments. This ruling lead to new financial innovations. The most notorious of these being Enron.

1996: Sandy Weill of Travelers and John Reed of Citicorp propose the merger of Travelers (largest insurance company) with Salomon Smith Barney (one of the largest investment banks) and Citibank (larget commercial bank). They managed to do this despite the fact that Glass-Steagall made this illegal. They put enough pressure that the legislation, HR10, House Resolution 10, which became the Financial Services Modernization Act was referred to as the "Citi-Travelers Act". Between Citibank and other large supporters over 200 million are spent in the lobbying effort.

Nov 1999: Senator Phil Gramm and Representative James Leach introduce the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 (or Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act or GLB) which was signed into law by Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999. It was a "veto proof legislation". This act repealed part of the Glass-Steagall Act and allowed commercial and investment banks to consolidate and sets the stage for our current financial situation. GLB repealed Sections 20 and 32 of the Glass-Steagall Act:

Section 20 - prohibited any member bank from affiliating in specific ways with an investment bank;

Section 32 - prohibited investment bank directors, officers, employees, or principals from serving in those capacities at a commercial member bank of the Federal Reserve System.

There are other troubling sections of the GLB:

It refused to extend to insurance companies obligations under the Community Re-investment Act to provide information about their patterns of mortgage lending.

Section 108, titled USE OF SUBORDINATED DEBT TO PROTECT FINANCIAL SYSTEM AND DEPOSIT FUNDS FROM ‘‘TOO BIG TO FAIL’’ INSTITUTIONS. It provides for a study of:

The feasibility and appropriateness of establishing a requirement that, with respect to large insured depository institutions and depository institution holding companies the failure of which could have serious adverse effects on economic conditions or financial stability, such institutions and holding companies maintain some portion of their capital in the form of subordinated debt in order to bring market forces and market discipline to bear on the operation of, and the assessment of the viability of, such institutions and companies and reduce the risk to economic conditions, financial stability, and any deposit insurance fund.

For the first time in the History of the American economy certain financial institutions are being judged "too big to fail". Think about that, a company has such power and influence that the US government cannot allow it to fail. Corporate welfare at the worst.

Some other things to keep in mind that the GLB included changes to the Community Re-investment Act. This brought the 501c3 organizations that had worked as watchdogs to insure that banks followed the law were put under more scrutiny than the banks themselves. This lead to significant less examinations of banks after GLB. Since larger banks were now able to buy up smaller banks these smaller banks now came under the new liberal examination rules of the GLB. Also Glass-Steagall required member banks to keep a percentage of their deposits in reserve to cover a bank run. This percentage was substantially cut in the GLB so that in a crisis like Bear Sterns the funds to cover the disaster were inadequate.

Now I'm not going to give Bill Clinton a pass on this one, as he did sign it and veto-proof or not he could have stood up here and taken a stand. It's possible that without his support the house and senate might not have been able to work out their version differences and this would not have passed. At the very least he could have challenged Greenspan over his order or opposed the repeal of Section 20. Based on this I do put a certain amount of blame on him. But how is he less so then Phil Gramm who is the co-chair of McCain's campaign?

FACT: McCain voted for this bill. In an interview with 60 minutues on September 21 2008 he stated he is proud of his vote.

Scott Pelley: In 1999, you were one of the senators who helped pass deregulation of Wall Street. Do you regret that now?

John McCain: No, I think the deregulation was probably helpful to the growth of our economy.

In 2000:

While on the Campaign trail: “Campaigning in Camden, SC, McCain said ‘I am a proud Republican conservative with a 17-year record of voting, not rhetoric, but voting against higher taxes, for smaller government, for less regulation.’” [Greenville News, 1/10/00]

“I Am A Deregulator. I Believe In Deregulation.” While speaking about the cable and satellite television during an appearance on CNN’s “On the Money,” John McCain said, “I am a deregulator. I believe in deregulation.” [CNN, "In the Money," 7/13/03]

May 2002: Senator Sarbanes introduces the Predatory Lending Consumer Protection Act of 2002. [S. 2438]

2003: Subprime lending has dramatic growth, from $65 billion in 1995 to $332 billion in 2003 (Inside B&C Lending Magazine). Market share for the top 25 firms making subprime loans grows from 39.3% in 1995 to over 90% in 2003.

November 2003: Senator Sarbanes, introduces the Predatory Lending Consumer Protection Act of 2003. [S. 1928]

October 8, 2003: Bush administration objected to a proposal to have an independent regulator of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac be an independent unit of Treasury, much like financial regulators housed in the agency that oversee banks and thrifts. The Bush administration also objected to a proposal to have the Department of Housing and Urban Development have oversight over the companies' business activities. The independence provision has broad support from committee Democrats and Republicans. The HUD provision was pushed mostly by Democrats but had been accepted by Oxley and Baker as a compromise needed to move the bill forward. [Washington Post, 10/8/03]

February 23, 2004: Instead of heeding warnings, Federal Reserve leadership promotes non-traditional mortgages over fixed rate products in a speech to the Credit Union National Association annual conference. "American consumers might benefit if lenders provided greater mortgage product alternatives to the traditional fixed-rate mortgage.the traditional fixed-rate mortgage may be an expensive method of financing a home." [Remarks By Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, 2/23/04]

February 24, 2004: At a Senate Banking Committee hearing, Norman Rice, President and CEO of the Federal Home Loan Bank of Seattle questioned having low-income Americans use ARM's to finance their homes. In addition, Senator Sarbanes questioned the Federal Reserve's promotion of alternative mortgage products over traditional fixed rate mortgages:

June 30, 2004: After encouraging the use of non-traditional mortgages, many of which re-set with rising interest rates, the Federal Reserve begins to raise rates-17 consecutive, 25 basis point increases that take the Federal Reserve Funds rate from a 46-year low of 1 percent in June 2004 to 5.25 percent in June 2006. [Market News International, 4/29/08]

February 7, 2007: Federal banking regulators released their voluntary Guidance on Nontraditional Mortgage Products for mortgage lenders. However, the guidance did not apply to subprime mortgages. [Senate Banking Committee Transcipt, Prepared Statement of Martin Eakes, 2/7/07]

March 22, 2007: Senator Dodd laid out how the Federal Reserve was responsible for the "perfect storm" sweeping over American homeowners. At a Banking committee hearing Dodd said, "By May of 2005, the press was reporting that economists were warning about the risks of these new mortgages. In June of that year, Chairman Greenspan was talking about "froth" in the mortgage market and testified before the Joint Economic Committee that he was troubled by the surge in exotic mortgages." [Senate Banking Committee Transcript, 3/22/07]

August 6, 2007: At a White House morning press briefing, in response to a question whether the housing market is correcting or in crisis, President Bush says that the economy is stable: "[I]t looks we're headed for a soft landing." [Remarks By President Bush, 8/9/07]

November 15, 2007: Senator Reid asked unanimous consent to pass the FHA Modernization Act, but Republicans objected. [Congressional Record, 11/15/08]

December 4, 2007: In response to a question about whether the Administration was too slow to recognize the subprime problem, President Bush said: "We've been working on this since August." [Remarks By President Bush, 12/4/07]

December 6, 2007: Senator Reid asked unanimous consent to pass the FHA Modernization Act, but Republicans objected. [Congressional Record, 12/6/08]

January 9, 2008: The Federal Reserve finally proposes rule pursuant to the Home Ownership and Equity Protection Act, to combat abusive and deceptive lending practices. Congress passed the law in 1994. [Federal Reserve System, 1/9/08; Public Law No: 103-325]

February 26, 2008: After Senate Democrats introduce The Foreclosure Prevention Act, White House issues a veto threat and Senate Republicans block consideration of the bill. [Statement of Administration Policy, 2/26/08; Senate Vote #35, HR 3221]

February 28, 2008: Senate Republicans blocked consideration of the Foreclosure Prevention Act. The bill provided $10 billion in bond authority to refinance subprime loans, $4 billion in grants for the rehabilitation of foreclosed homes and tax relief for struggling homebuilders. The bill also included a provision that would allow bankruptcy courts to modify the terms of a mortgage on a primary residence that could have helped 600,000 families stay in their homes. [Senate Vote #35, HR 3221; CRS Summary; Finance Committee Press Release, 2/15/08; Center for Responsible Lending]

March 3, 2008: “As far as a need for additional regulations are concerned, I think that depends on the legislative agenda and what the Congress does to some degree, but I am a fundamentally a deregulator. I’d like to see a lot of the unnecessary government regulations eliminated, not just a moratorium.”[Wall Street Journal, 3/3/08]

March 15th, 2008: “I’m asked all the time are we in a recession or not in a recession. And I don’t know the answer to that because it’s kind of a technical term. I do not believe we should raise your taxes. I think it would be the worst thing we could do. And that means to me I think the tax cuts need to be made permanent. When you’ve got a bad economy, the worst thing you can do is increase people’s tax burden. Let’s reduce it. Let’s reduce regulation.” [CNN, 3/15/08]

April 1, 2008: Republicans Stall Housing Bill. Republicans force cloture vote on motion to proceed to energy bill. [Senate Vote 86, HR 3221, 4/1/08]

July 7, 2008: Republican Senators force a procedural vote in order to further delay the passage of the comprehensive housing bill. [Senate Vote #163, HR 3221, 7/10/08]

July 10, 2008: Several Republican Senators force another procedural vote in order to delay passage of the housing bill. (Senate Vote #170, HR 3221, 7/10/08) "By a vote of 84-12 Thursday, the Senate cleared away the last procedural hurdle hindering the measure in that chamber, but lingering objections by a GOP critic pushed off passage until Friday." [AP, 7/11/08]

July 11, 2008: White House spokeswoman Dana Perino renews veto threat against the housing bill. [AP, 7/11/08]

July 11, 2008: Alarmed by the growing financial stress at the nation's two largest mortgage finance companies, senior Bush administration officials consider a plan to have the government take over Fannie Mae and/or Freddie Mac and place them in a conservatorship if their problems worsen. [New York Times, 7/11/08]

July 15, 2008: Bush says he opposes bailouts for private companies, "In terms of private enterprises, no, I don't think the government ought to be involved with bailing out companies. I think the government ought to create the conditions so that companies can survive. And I've listed four. And one of the things I'm deeply troubled about is people who feel like it's okay to raise taxes during these times. And it would be a huge mistake to raise taxes right now." [Remarks By President Bush, 7/15/08 ]

July 25, 2008: Republicans stall housing bill. Republicans force cloture vote on the motion to concur to the House amendments to the Housing bill. [Senate Vote 185, HR 3221, 7/25/08]

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

haynessemperfi — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:09:32 GMT

Comment: Dear Independent Voters,

I have a question I would like to ask my fellow independent voters. What is the true meaning of being Independent when you are used like a pawn by both parties every 4 years? What is the meaning of your Democracy when only two voices are heard? Does the sacrifies of those you give it all in defense of Democracy dishonored by the exclusion of third party and independent candidates in the debates?

Regards,

Veterans for Ballot Access Reform

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Nowforthetruth — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:09:50 GMT

Whether McCain won or lost is not relevant. He succeeded in the first half hour to plant the seeds of a Reagan style wipeout. Reputable historians and economists overwhelmingly agree that the taxation imposed by and the "Sstimulus" spending and public works programs of FDR actually deepened and prolonged the Great Depression. It was the production demands of WWII that got the economy going again. And when the war was over, the economy promptly went into recession.

Obama's tax and spending plans alone would be bad enough, but add Wright and Pelosi to the mix, with the three of them controlling both houses of Congress and the executive without and effective restraint, and you have something that should be something that causes concern even among moderate Democrats. Don't think so? Watch and listen to a C-SPAN video clip of the Congressional hearings at roughly the time McCain's attempt at S.190. to fix fannie and freddie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

haynessemperfi — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:10:02 GMT

Comment: Maine stop a hit for Nader

Article Date: Tuesday, October 7, 2008

PORTLAND, Maine (AP) _ Ralph Nader received an enthusiastic reception when he spoke to about 250 people at a Portland church.

The independent presidential candidate said the United States is drowning in debt while corporations are running the country.

In his Monday night comments he also complained that third-party candidates are excluded from the presidential debates.

Nader said the biggest difference between Republicans and Democrats is "the speed at which their knees hit the floor" when corporations knock on the door.

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081007/NEWS0104/810079984/-1/FOSNEWS0406

www.votenader.org

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

haynessemperfi — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:10:40 GMT

Comment: With less than two months before the election, Republicans and Democrats are driving it home: This is the election of the century.

And they're right: There is a lot at stake this year. This could be the year we change the lives of million Americans by providing them with decent health care and millions more with a living wage. It could be the year that we listen to the many Americans and Iraqis and withdraw occupying forces. It could be the year that we cut the near-trillion dollar defense budget, repeal NAFTA, revoke the Patriot Act and the illegal wiretapping FISA bill, build a green energy infrastructure, discipline runaway corporations and reign in the manic speculation driving the current food and housing crises.

That is Ralph Nader's plan, anyway-to offer Americans what the polls show they want.

So, while John McCain sings about bombing Iran and Barack Obama uses rhetoric about "smart" and "dumb" wars to stay in dumb wars and start new "smart" ones, Nader stands for strongly negotiated peace in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan. While Obama dismisses his earlier commitments to fair trade as "overheated," Nader would replace NAFTA with uniform environmental and labor standards. And while McCain chants "drill, baby, drill," and Obama prepares to replace Big Oil with Big Corn or Big Nukes, Nader calls for a renewable infrastructure.

But the Democrats tell us that we cannot vote for Nader because there is too much at stake this year. After eight years of George W. Bush, the argument goes, we cannot afford another Republican. We must rally behind the change party. And for the most part, students are buying it. Emphatically anybody-but-Bush and unfamiliar with the Democrats' duplicity, these students mistakenly believe that ousting the current administration will exorcise the demons of war, jingoism and economic imperialism they represent.

History, unfortunately, tells a different story.

In 1992, Clinton ran an uncannily Obama-esque campaign, branding himself as a change candidate and peddling a vague but comforting populism. Convinced, progressives rallied behind him. Clinton won, but progressives lost. Wage disparities between CEOs and workers ballooned in ten years. Clinton pushed NAFTA, costing approximately 525,000 US jobs and devastating Mexican farmers. And, as a flourish on the way out, Clinton repealed the Glass Steagall Act, allowing the mergers of banks and investment companies that are at the heart of our current financial crisis. In short, progressives got eight years of soft imperialism and a corporate dream economy that Clinton admitted "helped the bond market and hurt the people who voted us in." But that's not all. Progressives fell for the same stuff in 2000 and then again in 2004.

http://www.dailycal.org/article/102803/considering_the_third_option

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Doc Howl — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:11:53 GMT

"Gee, the world never heard of a man with an idea to make everything "fair" for everyone"

Well, except for Theodore Roosevelt.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

haynessemperfi — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:12:24 GMT

Consumer Advocate

Nader’s career as a public advocate started at the age of 31 with an article titled “The Safe Car You Can’t Buy,” which along with his subsequent book, “Unsafe at Any Speed,” documented safety defects in U.S. cars and criticized the automobile industry’s safety practices, specifically targeting the Corvair.

Helped by testimony from the CEO of General Motors that the company had hired a private detective to investigate Nader’s private life, the book became a best seller.

Nader subsequently sued GM for invasion of privacy and received $425,000 in an out-of-court settlement. He invested and used the money as a de facto philanthropic fund for his projects aimed at strengthening civil society.

Nader’s research on auto safety and his lobbying in Washington helped push Congress to pass the 1966 National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act.

He also lobbied for the 1967 Wholesome Meat Act, which called for federal inspections of beef and poultry and imposed standards on slaughterhouses, the 1967 Freedom of Information Act and the 1970 Clean Air Act.

In 1969, he helped found the Center for Study of Responsive Law (CSRL), a non-profit organization staffed mostly by college, graduate and law students. Those students became known as “Nader’s Raiders” and studied and issued reports on a variety of consumer issues.

In his career as consumer advocate he founded many organizations including the Public Interest Research Group (PIRG), the Center for Auto Safety, Public Citizen, Clean Water Action Project, the Disability Rights Center, the Pension Rights Center, the Project for Corporate Responsibility and The Multinational Monitor (a unique monthly magazine that keeps tabs on corporate behavior internationally).

Presidential Candidate

In the 1980’s, with the election of President Reagan, powerful corporate interests gathered momentum and became increasingly assertive in the pursuit of their narrow interests, throwing up roadblocks to Nader’s efforts to advance the well-being of the American people.

With the two major parties dialing for the same dollars, their differences dwindled on most major issues (single-payer healthcare, living wage, replacing fossil fuels and nuclear with many practical variants of solar power, and a foreign policy that wages peace instead of war).

After working for 40 years on behalf of the health, safety and economic well being of the American people, Nader took stock of the situation: “I don’t like citizen groups being shut out by both parties in this city — corporate occupied territory — not having a chance to improve their country.”

Never one to be stymied, Nader responded to the declining influence of civil society over elected representatives by entering the electoral arena himself, and is now on his third major presidential campaign aimed at reinvigorating America’s democracy, in the best traditions of the suffragettes, labor party, and abolitionists of the 19th and early 20th century.

When asked in 2004 if he was worried about his legacy being tarnished from the hurly burly of presidential politics, Nader responded: “Who cares about my legacy? My legacy is established. They’re not going to tear seatbelts out of cars. I look to the future. That’s the important thing.”

In an era when politicians sell us rhetoric and then sell out our principles, Nader stands out as one politician that can be counted on to never sell out.

There can be no daily democracy without daily citizenship toward 'a new birth of freedom.’ — Ralph Nader

WWW.VOTENADER.COM

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

haynessemperfi — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:18:05 GMT

A question for everyone,

Should third party and independent candidate been included in the debates? Are we still in democracy when only two parties our represented?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

jazz4111 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:21:51 GMT

Sen. McCain made several factual errors in his debate last night, some more egregious and embarrasing than others. I.E. he said Columbia was the largest importer of U.S. agricultural products - he should have said Canada (fact). He said Sen. Obama voted against Supreme Court Justice Breyer(sp.?) he should have said Alito (Sen. Obama was not even in Congress when Breyer was appointed). and worst of all (to me), on two separate occasions he referred to Gov. Palin's special interest in and support for parents with autistic children when in fact, she does not have an autistic child, she has a child with Down's Syndrome, a completely different and unrelated condition. He is either terribly confused or hopelessly misinformed.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

nimodahooligan — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:23:27 GMT

and socialism and liberalism... who cares...doesnt look like republicans or democrats are doing it any better....china seems to have a graps on communism although i would never agree to they're human rights violations...

change is part of life...there is no perfect way to govern anything or anybody...democracy fails just as badly as a republic, communism can fail as badly as a dictatorship...there is no one way to do anything, and apparently we havent figured that out yet. we still only have the choice of the lesser of 2 evils. 2 choices...really? its 50/50 if the country tanks further or comes out on top? democrat or republican? stop with the labels and look around...the world is a different place. we are starting to see that nations and countries share the same land, speak the same languages, we all have red blood, we all eat and sleep and take shits everyday.

you oppose socialism...hmmm...do you realize our wonderful government is buying ownership into 8 of the largest banks in america and subsequently the world? now they will make money off of you losing your house, your car, your possessions you took out loans for and can no longer pay...and i find it even more intriguing that in a unanimous move the top "modern countries" bought ownership in they're top banks as well in a coordinated move...can anyone say globalization?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

The "O" Team — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:02:03 GMT

1ST OFF...

THE BIG "O" SHOULD STOP PANDERING TO THESE HICKS, PHQ THEM ALL... BARACK REALLY SHOULD SAY SCREW AMERICA AND GO AND WORK IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR... WITH HIS SMARTS, HE COULD MAKE THE MONEY THAT IT TAKES, TO BUY THE WHITE HOUSE... ISN'T THAT, HOW IT WORKS ANYWAYS... LET'S ASK JOHN MC'KKKEATING 5...

These hicks are crazy... and mind you, when I use the term HICK, I am not referring to ones social nor economic standing... I AM REFERRING TO THOSE BACK WOODS MINDED PEOPLE whom GOD has allowed to have REPROBATE MINDS (i.e. “he’s an ARAB, I know it”, "TAIN'T NOTHIN BUT SO-SHALL-ISM").

SO-CALLED CONSERVATIVES, REPUBLICAN, WHITE CITIZEN'S COUNCIL OR WHATEVER YOU DUMB EM-F's, CALL YOURSELVES THESE DAY... I MUST ADMIT...

I HAVE BECOME REPENTANT...

I REFUSE TO VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA... AND WHY????

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH... THAT ONES EASY...

I HAVE A GREAT LIVING "COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE FINANCE BROKER"... I AM COLLEGE EDUCATED (IQ 135 LOW 145 HIGH)... MY CHILD GETS ALL A's AT A PREDOMINANTLY WHITE-PRIVATE SCHOOL (LOL, AS IF THAT IS A STANDARD TO FOLLOW)

JOHN MC'KKKAIN'T HAS MADE ME REALIZE WHY MY FRIENDS AND I, CHOOSE TO PRAYS THE LORD, IGNORE POLITICS, MAKE MONEY AND RAISE OUR KIDS TO BE BETTER THAN THEIR SCHOOL MATES...

WELL.. AS BACK-WOODS STUPID AND RACIST AS MOST OF THE MC'KKKAIN'T SUPPORTERS ARE, IF WE, THE ENLIGHTENED AFRICAN -AMERICANS CAN JUST KEEP OUR REMARKABLE STRIDE, REGARDLESS OF WHOM THE PRESIDENT IS... WE WILL SEE THOSE SAME MEMBERS OF THE WHITE CITIZEN' COUNCIL (oh, I'm sorry, McKKKain't Supporters) BROKE, BEATEN, DYSFUNCTIONAL, ON WELFARE ROLLS, KICKED-OUT OF THEIR HOMES and IN SOUP LINES...

PRICELESS...

THAT, I MUST ADMIT, IS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY BETTTTTTTTTTER THAN

40 ACRES AND A MULE............. (even though "BLACKS" don't verbalize their anger AS THEY USE TO, DON'T THINK THAT WE AREN'T... DON'T THINK THAT WE FORGOT)

YEAH, JOHNNY BABY REALLY LET ME SEE THAT, THOSE RACIST THAT USE TO GIVE HELL TO AFRICAN AMERICANS, THROUGHOUT AMERICA'S HYPOCRITICAL HISTORY, had children and grand-children WHO STILL HOLD those same TOXIC beliefs...

FOR THOSE FOLKS...

I AM VOTING 4 MC'KKKAIN'T... IT IS MY SURE AND CONFIDENT OPINION THAT, JOHNNY MC'KKKAIN'T WILL DO WHAT CIVIL-RIGHTS, AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, WELFARE and THE COSBY SHOW, COULDN'T DO FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS.............................

LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD..................... RE-DISTRIBUTE THE WEALTH BY BREAKING THE REPUBLICAN BASE.... NAT TURNER AND DENMARK VESSEY (2 UNSUNG AMERICAN HERO'S) WOULD BE PROUD....

AND JUST THINK, WE DON'T NEED A RACE WAR (which unfortunately, I am WELL prepared 4).......

All we need are MORE WHITE STUPID/CORRUPT, SO-CALLED CONSERVATIVES in OFFICE...

.... 4 - 8 more years will really BREAK THAT IRRATIONAL CONSERVATIVE CONSTITUENCY...

AND I AM ALL FOR THAT...

I AM NOW VOTING 4 MC'KKKAIN'T (still think that he is a lying, old, washed-up, corrupt FART who probably need more azz whuppin's while in 'NAM' but if his policies can ECONOMICALLY, INTELLECTUALLY & SPIRITUALLY bring down all of these REDNECK RACIST HACKS... It would be well worth paying the high gas prices and sending more jobs overseas)

VOTE MC'KKKAIN'T

MC'KKKAIN'T IN 08...

MC'KKKAIN'T IS THE ONE WE NEED...

ON NOVEMBER THE FORTH VOTE MC'KKKAIN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

FREETHINKINGAMERICAN — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:12:58 GMT

After this final debate, it should now be crystal-clear to everyone - that Obama is by far the more impressive presidential candidate.

Obama was the clear winner in this debate (and the first two) for me and all most people (judging by the post-debate polls).

McCain came across as Mean Mr.Mustard/Mr. Magoo - a cantankerous old codger being mean, desperate, negative and petty in his attacks on non-issues like Ayers and Acorn and his obvious, sneering disdain for Obama.

Obama came across as dignified and presidential, refusing to be drawn away by McCain's attacks from focusing on the REALLY big, serious issues - and their implications for the lives of ordinary people.

Obama is the obvious choice for me, as well as the rest of the world (judging by the Economist's world-wide poll), and increasing numbers of Americans ( judging by the opinion polls),

Obama gives America an opportunity to show its infinite capacity for renewal and to show, as Churchill said, that "America will always do the right thing - but only after exhausting all other options."

I hope Joe the Plummer agrees.

The President : dignified, cool, calm,collected, refusing to be drawn by McCain and keeping the focus on the big issues that REALLY matter to the American people, rather than non-issues like Ayers and Acorn.

I know who I'd vote for: not grumpy old Mr.McGoo.

(By the way : was the picture I saw in the Daily Mail of McCain creeping up behind Obama, hands outstretched, tongue hanging out and apparently about to attack a bit of pre-debate horsing around by McCain, or a fake photo)?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

billtill — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:15:58 GMT

Hey Doc how do you define fair?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

FREETHINKINGAMERICAN — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:19:55 GMT

After this final debate, it should now be crystal-clear to everyone - that Obama is by far the more impressive presidential candidate.

Obama was the clear winner in this debate (and the first two) for me and all most people (judging by the post-debate polls).

McCain came across as Mean Mr. Mustard/Mr. Magoo - a cantankerous old codger being mean, desperate, negative and petty in his attacks on non-issues like Ayers and Acorn and his obvious, sneering disdain for Obama.

Obama came across as dignified and presidential, refusing to make personal attacks and refusing to be drawn away by McCain's attacks from focusing on the REALLY big, serious issues - and their implications for the lives of ordinary people.

Obama is the obvious choice for me, as well as the rest of the world (judging by the Economist's world-wide poll), and increasing numbers of Americans ( judging by the opinion polls),

I hope Joe the Plummer agrees.

(By the way : was the picture I saw in the Daily Mail of McCain creeping up behind Obama, hands outstretched, tongue hanging out and apparently about to attack, a bit of pre-debate horsing around by McCain, or a fake photo)?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

The Big American — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:24:34 GMT

The scariest and most revealing thing about last night's debate was the look in John McCain's eyes!

During Barrack Obama's comments, NBC's split screen showing both candidates revealed at times a "wild" man with pent up rage who looked as if he would either explode or lunge across the stage.

My granny use to say that the eyes are a window to the soul, and as my late great pal of 34 years from Belfast, Ireland was fond of saying, "the man looked like he had an A wire hooked to a B terminal!!!" I'd rather have democrats spending $$$ on social programs than waste it on a Republican war outside the country or lose it in market crashes due to deregulation policy. Either way, the litle guy is going to pay, and pay, and pay!!!!! Best to all, and Semper Fi!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

The "O" Team — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:27:16 GMT

1ST OFF...

SO-CALLED CONSERVATIVES, REPUBLICAN, WHITE CITIZEN'S COUNCIL OR WHATEVER YOU DUMB EM-F's, CALL YOURSELVES THESE DAY... I MUST ADMIT...

I HAVE BECOME REPENTANT...

I REFUSE TO VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA... AND WHY????

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH... THAT ONES EASY...

JOHN MC'KKKAIN'T HAS MADE ME REALIZE WHY MY FRIENDS AND I, CHOOSE TO PRAYS THE LORD, IGNORE POLITICS, MAKE MONEY AND RAISE OUR KIDS TO BE BETTER THAN THEIR SCHOOL MATES...

PRICELESS...

THAT, I MUST ADMIT, IS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY BETTTTTTTTTTER THAN

40 ACRES AND A MULE............. (even though "BLACKS" don't verbalize their anger AS THEY USE TO, DON'T THINK THAT WE AREN'T... DON'T THINK THAT WE FORGOT)

FOR THOSE FOLKS...

LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD..................... RE-DISTRIBUTE THE WEALTH BY BREAKING THE REPUBLICAN BASE.... NAT TURNER AND DENMARK VESSEY (2 UNSUNG AMERICAN HERO'S) WOULD BE PROUD....

AND JUST THINK, WE DON'T NEED A RACE WAR (which unfortunately, I am WELL prepared 4).......

All we need are MORE WHITE STUPID/CORRUPT, SO-CALLED CONSERVATIVES in OFFICE...

.... 4 - 8 more years will really BREAK THAT IRRATIONAL CONSERVATIVE CONSTITUENCY...

AND I AM ALL FOR THAT...

VOTE MC'KKKAIN'T

MC'KKKAIN'T IN 08...

MC'KKKAIN'T IS THE ONE WE NEED...

ON NOVEMBER THE FORTH VOTE MC'KKKAIN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

tiredofextremes — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:33:44 GMT

Actually, The "O" Team, judging from the ridiculous rant you posted, I seriously doubt your IQ is as high as what you claim, or else you just made yourself look like a fool. Sorry to say, you're as hateful and bigoted as the "hicks" you're blasting. How does racism look to you when you look in the mirror every morning? Just curious...

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

suzvoter47 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:56:33 GMT

McCain also tried to throw the tub too, but to no avail. McCain is running a campiagn on emotions of anger and its not working. He came off as a angry, whiny man that feels he is entiltled to be in the White House due to his POW status and his Elitism in the senate. I belive they accused Obama of being an Elitist first, actually JohncCain certainly embodies qualities of an individual that considers himself elite.

The manner in which he answered questioned, demanded repudiatation from Obama for Lewi's remarks and his condescending eye rolling and grimicing all refelct his notion that he is entitled.

Reminds of Its a Wonderful Life in which Potter belives he should own the Savings and Loans at any cost.

McCain the presidency is earned not a right and after watching your performance at debates and during the rallies you have not earned the Presidency.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Nins — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 20:11:22 GMT

If Joe the Plumber thinks he can't afford to buy the business under Obama's tax plan then he really needs to consult a good accountant. Obama's plan lowers taxes on the first $250,000 Joe makes. On the money over $250,000, Joe would pay 39% under Obama, instead of the 36% he now pays. That's 3% more taxes, not exactly a break-the-bank if you have already made $250,000 at a low rate. Plus, Obama will give him a tax credit for every job he creates, and tax credits for every employee that he provides health insurance for. Under Obama's plan, Joe's business will pay LESS TAX than it does now.

McCain's plan will tax the first $250,000 at a higher rate, then drop the taxes on anything over $250,000 by an unspecified amount. McCain's plan does not give him a tax credit for every job he creates. If he provides health care for his employees he will now have to deduct yet another tax from their paychecks, adding administrative burden to his company. Not to mention that Joe will have to pay this tax himself on his personal income, which amounts to $4,200 a year he pays in taxes (35% of the $12,000 a typical policy costs). And if his company does not provide health care, he and his employees will pay out of pocket for their health care (average cost $12,000 per year), get a $5,000 tax credit under McCain, but be out of pocket at least $7,000 per year for their policy.

My impression is that Joe really should stick to plumbing and leave tax policy to Obama.

Furthermore, Joe the plumber says that Obama has a "very socialist view of taxes" This statement shows America how very uninformed Joe Wurzelbacher is. I would love to hear Joe define socialism and describe the tax policies of a socialist nation. He would start to sound like Sarah Palin on Katie Couric. Nor does he seem to recognize that all democracies socialize certain functions: police, fire fighting, military, roads, public schools, sewers, water. This is for the greater good and we all accept it. It does not make us socialists.

In his book Audacity of Hope, Obama writes at length about the FAILURE of SOCIALISM. He enthusiastically states that American democracy is the greatest political system on earth. Obama is not a socialist, and he does not admire socialism.

Joe the plumber should stick to plumbing and leave public policy decisions to people who actually know what they are talking about.

Oh, and maybe Joe and his boss should get plumbing licenses. Apparently neither of them is licensed, in violation of both state and county laws.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Bluegrass Woman — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 20:17:53 GMT

I worry that the GOP will, again, steal the election from the people.

I worry that this election is unlike any this country has ever seen; and, we are not equiped to handle the turnout.

I worry that the quite, easily intemidated 'Negro' of the last century has disappeared; and, in their place stands the strong, "I built this country", Black man and woman; who will not accept their votes being lost to the tricks of the GOP.

The military is no longer white MPs who can be sent to keep the "Coloreds" in line.

The whites are no longer the only ones with guns.

I fear that, unless this election is on the up-and-up, there will be blood!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

factsearcher — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 20:25:14 GMT

Some of these posts are really...something!..to put it lightly.

THe "O Team" post is a classic. An african american complaining of racism when he/she is the first one talking and ranting racist sentences (and in capital letters). I'm no racist...beleive in complete equality, would let my daughter marry an african american if she fell in love and deserved her. Work with several and are very close in friendship with fantastic african american citizens. But the type that are not bitter of their heritage...on the contrary..proud of who they are and what they have become as equal as any white, hispanic, asian, indian or arab in this country.

Having said that, I was very undecided for who to vote until last nite. I was leaning towards Obama very much so. I like his health care proposal. I find that we need to raise taxes somewhere in order to be able to pay for at least some of the federal programs (the ones which are not going to be frozen). I didn't think that the republican ideology of the tricke down effect of wealth works for our economy any more.

However, Obama slipped out some inconsitencies and very eloquently avoided much of the answers and made me realize that his ego is greater than his intellect (and he is extremely smart).

We need leadership. We need a president who will really cross the bounderies and cross parties to unite in making the right decisions for these very difficult times. We also need extremely intelligent, diligent and wise president when it comes to our national security (Condi Rice and Colin Powell would be the greatest team right nowif u ask me). We need a man to lead not a puppet of the party.

I like you Obama, but you disappointed me.

My only issue is Palin...that's another post.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

tiredofextremes — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 20:32:16 GMT

And yet by saying that, aren't you basically admitting that no matter the outcome, if the GOP wins it automatically means they "rigged" the election? Being afraid that a party (aka GOP) will steal the show each and every time and that blood will flow is basically saying you think half the country is a bunch of thieves and outlaws that sleep with bankers and oilmen and the other half is filled with outlaws and militants that have no respect of civil obedience. Neither is true.

Ma'am, I feel sorry that voting abuse has happened in the past, but I worry that you are afraid like chicken little was afraid.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

seaprincess — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 20:38:51 GMT

"Joe the Plumber", the income a small business makes is NOT the owner's income. The owner can pay himself/herself less than $250k, and use surplus business income to hire more employees and create more jobs.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

mcleodmn — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 20:39:10 GMT

Dems are 4-0 in these debates.

If you are still undecided, just ring your call button and Tommy will come back there and hit you on the head with a tack hammer because you're a *retard*.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

RMcD — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 21:20:58 GMT

Once again, we see that the real interest of John McCain, like his pals in the Bush administration, is to redistribute the wealth of the American people - to themselves, their close friends and their business associates. Interesting that when Senator Obama suggests that we reduce taxes on the middle and lower middle classes, it is "class warfare," but when they reduce taxes for the super wealthy and the large corporations, that's an "economic plan."

I cannot understand why anyone would consider voting for John McCain. The Bush administration, with the constant votes of McCain, has spent the last 8 years redistributing the wealth of America to the Bush and Cheney families and their already rich Republican friends and business associates. They have poured many, many billions into no-bid contracts with their friends, and have given many more billions to the oil industry including their Saudi friends –the bin Laden family (yes, that bin Laden family), all with the agreement and votes of McCain. In the first year of the Bush and McCain class warfare tax cuts for the already wealthy, Cheney alone received about $300,000 in lower taxes. I DO think it is patriotic to pay your fair share of taxes, and I do not believe being rich, republican or an oil company means you should be exempted from paying. I also believe that the Bush and McCain policy of permitting "American" corporations to keep their funds overseas and therefore free of taxation until they return those funds to the US (How many of us really think they'll EVER bring the money back here and pay those taxes?) is just another example of their total disdain for the middle class - you know, those of us who know how many houses we have, and do not have a net wealth of $2 million like Sarah "Joe Sixpack" Palin. Added to McCain's total lack of respect for women - he thought those of us who voted for Hillary would move over to Moose Killer Barbie? - and his total lack of care for the lives and health of women, plus his abhorrent conduct toward Senator Obama, he has completely lost my respect, and more importantly, my vote.

When did people decide that intelligence, thoughtfulness, education and a questioning mind were things to be derided? Who could possibly believe that someone like McCain, with his smirking disdain for anyone other than himself, and Sarah Palin, who has obviously never spent even one hour thinking about serious economics or foreign policy, would be contenders for this important job. John McCain does not have the temperament or the sensibility for the job, and Palin does not have any qualifications at all, other than that she is a republican and hates Obama. I want an intelligent president - someone far more so than myself - I want the best and the brightest. Just listening to the closing arguments last night - McCain going on and on about what a great guy he thinks he is, and Senator Obama talking about what America needs and how he intends to work toward that was more than enough to decide my vote.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

NewsWkDickG — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 21:22:57 GMT

It doesn’t matter if someone is a Republican, a conservative Christian or even a racist, for most anyone to vote for McCain-Palin it would simply be like ‘shooting oneself in the foot’. Even those making over $250,000 who would get an Obama tax increase, with McCain-Palin they would still have to endure a further declining economy, continuation of the misguided war effort, no real resolutions for medical, education, energy, immigration,,, and the furthering of a focus on Special Interests while giving everyone else just subterfuge and the costs. It should be perfectly clear from all that has transpired during this election cycle that all Palin and McCain offer is deceptive rhetoric boldly presented, a lack of integrity, arrogant insincerity and more of the self-serving Bush style politics. Whether agreeing with all of Obama’s positions or not, it should be clear that they do sincerely address the issues with the people in mind and that in contrast the McCain positions can neither be trusted nor expected to help the majority of people. Even the offered scare that Obama represents a tax and spend ‘big government’ mentality has no real basis, as what the Bush-Cheney administration has done, that the McCain-Palin positions clearly indicate they would continue, is outspent, including more ‘pork barrel’ items, then any administration before. Last night, after the debate the ‘Fact Check’ segment even pointed out that McCain’s proposals were more costly (and without anything offered to pay for them) than Obama’s. The truth is that unless people can check their prejudices, put aside their biases and be rational and objective to see that their emotional attachments could be used to sway them, then their voting for McCain-Palin not only may be asking for ‘more of the same’ but also is very likely not in their best interests.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

factsearcher — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 21:36:30 GMT

Once again, people get confused with what they hear.

Eloquence does not determine intelligence or intelligent decisions. Education, experience and an open mind does.

Obama could be very eloquent...he really is! Chavez from Venezuela and Castro from Cuba are extremely eloquent... does that make them the right choice for governement? Absolutely not!

Another point well spoken last night. McCain is not Bush or the Bush family...even Bush father cannot be compared to Bush junior.

What Bush have done these past 8 years is unforgivable... that does not mean in any way McCain is alike. Look at McCain's record of reform and bipartisan decisions. Moving acroos party lines is the key to this next administration.

We don't need a puppet of the party. We don't need an eloquent pleaser. We don't need a president that promises and promises but will not be able to deliver.

We need leadership. We need unifying the Senate and the Congress. We need an experienced strong but diplomatic hand in foreign affairs.

Sounds like McCain to me

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

sportlock009 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 22:15:07 GMT

Wonder why people cant seem to put 2 and 2 together when trying to say McCain is some wild eyed madman? Ever had someone tell you 5+5 =12 and you know it equals 10? Do you sit and smile like a dipshyt as Obama did? Well wait, when McCain was pointing out how naive Obama is AGAIN he wasn't lying so I guess all Obama could do was smile. Seems odd that everytime Obama said McCain was lying about Obama McCains response was an immediate LOOK IT UP, THE FACTS ARE RIGHT THERE.... And does Obama say, ok John lets do that? Nope, he smiles because he knows he's lying. Are you people dumb or just stupid?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Nowforthetruth — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 22:33:10 GMT

Do absentee ballots facilitate fraud?

Lessons from East Chicago — could a statewide election be subverted?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27166150/

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

DaveWK — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 22:58:38 GMT

McCain again was erratic, agitated, and disrespectful. Obama was just the opposite. McCain could only hope Obama would make a mistake; instead, it was McCain who gaffed on the abortion issue, by sarcastically putting fingertip parentheses around a woman's "health" to suggest it shouldn't be a factor in whether she could terminate a troublesome pregnancy. That's a Palin-like, extreme position which will hurt him substantially with many women voters. As you noted, all of the polling shows that independents and undecideds found Obama the better candidate. Even McCain's Joe the Plummer gambit backfired, as it turns out he is not a plummer, he may have been working without a license, and he misrepresented the income of the business he worked for, etc. Trying the kitchen sink only shows how sunk the McCain campaign is. He ought to take the advise of Republican commentator David Broder and pull all his negative ads and try to salvage some dignity.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Cantabrigian — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:01:13 GMT

In a normal election year, Obama's link to Wright's "black values system" would disqualify him from the presidency in the eyes of most Americans.

1. Obama told a crowd in Elko, Nevada,"I need you to go out and talk to your friends and neighbors. I want you to argue with them and get in their face." IS THIS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU? DIRTY POLITICS!

2. When Stanley Kurtz began researching Obama's ties with terrorist William Ayers, the papers in the Richard J. Daley Library in Chicago were at first closed off to him for several days, apparently at the bequest of Nobama supporters. When Kurtz was appearing as a guest of Milt Rosenberg's radio show, Obama's supporters were ALERTED by campaign email and jammed the radio station (WGN) phone lines and sent in hundreds of protest emails.IS THIS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU? What happened to free speech? DIRTY POLITICS!

3. Last month, St.Louis City Circuit Attorney Jennifer Joyce warned citizens that they would bring libel prosecution against anyone who made "false" statements against Obama. What happened to free speech? DIRTY POLITICS!

4. Similarly, the Obama camp called for a criminal probe of the American Issues Project when it linked Obama to Ayers. DIRTY POLITICS!

5. Saturday Night Live ran a spoof of the fininacial crisis that skewered Democratics like House Chairman Barney Frank. The tape disappeared from NBC's Web site and was replaced with another that omitted the reference to Frank.

6. Obama sent 31 of his hired employees to Alaska to ASSIST in the Troopergate investigation? WHAT WAS HE THINKING? Just more dirty politics to try and dig up dirt on Sarah Pallin? DIRTY POLITICS!

IS AMERICA NO LONGER THE LAND OF THE FREE?

THE LACK OF INTEREST IN KNOWING JUST WHO OBAMA IS IS STUNNING!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Bluegrass Woman — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:42:38 GMT

To tiredofextremes: I hope....no...I pray that you are right and that I am wrong. I want to think that every vote will be counted and that no one will be disenfranchised in this election.

I DO know that we have a whole new slate of voters...young people who have a strong belief in this system; but, unlike the 1960's youth, will not tolerate the blatant abuse of the laws of this country; and, will NOT sit back and wait for things to get better.

Unlike Chicken Little; (the sky hadn't fallen before his fears) we've had voter issues as recent as 4 years ago, i.e., the last election.

Times have changed. Let us hope the GOP has changed.

Civil disobedience is in the eye of the beholder. When I refused to sit in the back of the bus; refused to drink from a "Colored Only" water fountain in KY; I was guilty of civil disobedience. When I refused to step off the sidewalk to allow a white person to pass; I was guilty of civil disobedience. This country was formed on civil disobedience. Militant is not a bad word. It is the driving force behind all changes for the good in this country.

I have lived through Jim Crow from the side that you will never know; and I tell you that this time the air has a different feel....our people are TIRED of beliving in a system that has betrayed them....play fair...or THERE WILL BE BLOOD again.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Nowforthetruth — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:03:16 GMT

Baby I'll be there to take your hand,

Baby I'll be there to share the land

That they'll be giving away, when we all live together.

So, in the exchange with Joe the plumber we find out that Obama really is as radical as his early political acquaintances, and is into the failed economic policy of wealth redistribution. Yahoo, back to the 70's we go! So now we know that an Obama presidency really would be as if it were Carter's lost second term after all.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

nohobohos1 — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:13:33 GMT

"Posted By: Cantabrigian (October 16, 2008 at 7:01 PM)

In a normal election year, Obama's link to Wright's "black values system" would disqualify him from the presidency in the eyes of most Americans."

Like Todd Palin's membership in Alaskan Independence Party? And Palin's support at their events?

Wright never said "OVERTHROW the government" - just take responsibility for certain wrongs.

WTF is a "black values system" ??????

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

quasqueton — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:15:32 GMT

Well, Blue Grass Woman - Are you Rosa Parks? Oh no, she is dead. Why do keep bringing up all of those things? Why don't you worry about black gangs, and rap music. Try to teach young blacks respect, and especially respect for teachers. No more white guilt here - you take care of yourselves!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

klebrun — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:22:42 GMT

Anarchy in the financial markets.

The four worst financial disasters of the last 100 years have come at the end of Republican administrations that have aggressively promoted deregulation in the financial markets.

The Republican party which speaks so vociferously about law and order on the streets speaks with an equal fervor for deregulation - best described as outright anarchy in the financial markets.

US Naval Academy 66 for Obama

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

michaeltodd — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:25:05 GMT

What is really going on? No one in their right mind can honestly say that John McCain and Sarah Palin are the right people for the jobs of president and vice president of the United States. There is no way that an intelligent, reasonable person can actually believe that with these two people in the white house, the citizens of America will be in good hands. The very idea that Sarah Palin could be a heart beat away from the presidency should make any thoughtful person afraid.

Sarah Palin is incompetent and you know it. John McCain has no vision. Both Palin and McCain are out of touch. They do not have you in mind when they are spouting their rhetoric. When they are using words like, “The American People,” they are not thinking about you. They aren't thinking about the guy who is trying to make good of the promises he made to his children, or the woman who is single with two kids working two jobs, or the teacher who works into the night tutoring kids after school or coaching a sport in an effort to make a little extra money to pay for gas. They really have no idea what it means to be foreclosed or to view grocery shopping as a risk because if you spend too much on groceries, you may not be able to pay the electric bill. McCain and Palin cannot identify with these experiences, which means they cannot identify with most Americans.

People are throwing their support behind Obama because he has a vision and he has clarified his vision for the future. McCain lacks clarity because he is unable to connect with the average citizen. As a result, nobody sees things his way.

I refuse to believe that Americans who support McCain are so blind that they cannot see that Sarah Palin is totally incompetent. She can’t answer “gotcha” questions like, “What newspapers do you read?” and “What Supreme Court rulings have you disagreed with?” I could have answered those questions when I was 16.

What is really going on? I believe that if Barack Obama were a handsome white senator from Illinois, those voters who currently oppose him would be on his side. Whites who are going to waste there vote on John McCain and Sarah Palin have worked to convince themselves that race has nothing to do with it. Every time race enters their minds, they force it out in an effort to make themselves believe that voting for the ridiculous McCain/Palin ticket is a wise choice. Get real. No one is really silly enough to really want McCain and Palin in the white house. No one is really foolish enough to actually believe that McCain and Palin are a better choice than Obama and Biden. If Obama were white, this election would already be over. The only thing that keeps McCain in the arena is the fact that Obama is black. Be honest with yourself. Please wake up.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

sportlock009 — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:34:08 GMT

klebrun,

Apparently you need educated. I will help you out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

Now that you have proof of responsibility, who is to blame for this financial disaster?

Where do you get your info from, do you just make it up as you go? WOW

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

sportlock009 — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:38:43 GMT

Well well well, seems Michelle Obama will finally get to live out her college thesis huh? Obama's plan to tax RICH WHITE PEOPLE sure does sound like phase 2 of Affirm action doesnt it? Affirm action basically is meant to hold white men down while everyone else catches up. Now Phase 2, take the money from as rev wright says, RICH WHITE PEOPLE and give it to the poor. May I ask whom is the poorest demographically in America? Yup you guessed it, Michelle Obama's thesis coming true atlast

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

factsearcher — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:39:28 GMT

Let me ask business owners something.

If your business is making near or will make near the $200,000 profit..... you will have to pay 40% tax..if Obama wins.

While other countries are paying 1/3 less than what we pay here in business taxes... why do you think americans rather move their factories and labor overseas?

This is not the time to ignore small business or even growing businesses in the US. On the contrary we need to reform laws in order to benefit and attract business inland...

the banking business are the only ones benefiting right now, while democrats are ignoring the middle business owners. Yes, you won't be taxed higher on the personal end if you can prove you make $250,000 or less anually. But the business sector will suffer. Isn't business, jobs, economy what we are trying to save... to fix in these difficult times????

Obama's rhetoric and fiddling around the bush will never give you a straight answer on his own proposals.

CHeck the facts. We need reform not rhetoric.

When the times come and your taxes are raised 40%... you will have to make a decision... do I stay here and pay Uncle Sam my profits or do I go overseas, pay less tases and grow my business ??

McCain is not Bush just as Obama is not Clinton.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

techresmgt — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:53:19 GMT

Little stuck because Obama is one big facade. Nothing sticks to 'air'.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

klebrun — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 01:05:32 GMT

Factsearcher: The only way to prove your argument is for you to move your business overseas and grow it. Then you can complain that half the businesses in the US don't pay any taxes and most pay well under the 35% because of all the loopholes.

Warren Buffet, a multibillionaire, says he pays a lower tax rate than his secretarial office staff.

Bon voyage.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

tiredoflies — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 01:37:04 GMT

You are going to hear all the fear and smear from the republicans now folks.

THEY ARE DESPERATE and will stop at nothing.

When they spew their SO CALLED FACTS, Check it out. It is probably NOT TRUE.

Example: Any increase in tax for a small business that makes over $250,000.00 is only applicable to the amount over $250,000.00.

Joe the Plumber could make $280.000 net profit and only pay $900.00 in increased tax.

Is it so bad that someone who makes $280,000.00 pay $900.00 more in tax.

The republicans will try to say the increased tax is on the total amount.

This is the lie. It is ONLY ON THE AMOUNT ABOVE $250,000.00.

Again, the republicans will now try anything to dupe you.

Beware.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Perusing-through — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 01:59:51 GMT

"REPUBLICANS LAUNCH WAVE OF CALLS ATTACKING OBAMA"

Posted: 07:02 PM ET

WASHINGTON (CNN) - Republicans launched an enormous wave of phone calls Thursday blasting Barack Obama for "having worked closely with domestic terrorist Bill Ayers," party sources said.

The calls are part of a $70 million last Republican push to get out the vote for John McCain on November 4, using calls, mailings and door-knocking in battleground states.

"Hundreds of thousands" of calls are being made in at least half a dozen hard-fought states including Virginia, North Carolina and Ohio, the sources said.

= = = = = = = =

DON'T UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE 'ROBO-PHONE LIES'

The robo-phone lies destroyed John McCain in 2000 Republican Primaries. Just after McCain shocked the nation with his early primary wins in 2000, surrogates for George W. Bush hit South Carolina hard with 'rob-phone lies' falsely accusing McCain of fathering an illegitimate Black child.

The Bush surrogates knew the Appalachian states were easy marks for racist lies and could be easily bamboozled into believing the lie by voting against Senator McCain. The Bush surrogates guessed correctly that South Carolina was easy prey to racism, and Bush went on to win the Presidency, and the rest is history.

MORAL OF THE STORY - - "ROBO-PHONE LIES" WORK WITH APPALACHIA!!!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Nowforthetruth — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 02:47:39 GMT

Everyone should see this when it posts up on C-SPAN:

Senators John McCain and Barack Obama spoke at the Alfred Emanuel Smith Memorial Dinner at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel. 10/16/2008

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&tID=5&src=atom&atom=todays_events.xml&products_id=281814-1

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Nins — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 03:02:26 GMT

If Joe the Plumber thinks he can't afford to buy the business under Obama's tax plan then he really needs to consult a good accountant. Obama's plan lowers taxes on the first $250,000 Joe makes. On the money over $250,000, Joe would pay 39% under Obama, instead of the 36% he now pays. That's 3% more taxes, not exactly break-the-bank if you have already made $250,000 at a low rate. In fact, if Joe makes $280,000 then his taxes will only go up $900 a year (that's 3% of $30,000, the amount over $250,000). Plus, Obama will give him a $1,000 tax credit for every job he creates, and tax credits for every employee that he provides health insurance for. Under Obama's plan, Joe's business will actually pay LESS TAX than it does now, as long as he has even just one employee.

McCain's plan will tax the first $250,000 at a the current rate, then drop the taxes on anything over $250,000 by an unspecified amount. McCain's plan does not give him a tax credit for every job he creates. If he provides health care for his employees he will now have to deduct yet another tax from their paychecks, adding administrative burden to his company. Not to mention that Joe will have to pay this tax himself on his personal income, which amounts to an extra $4,200 a year he pays in taxes (35% of the $12,000 a typical policy costs). And if his company does not provide health care, he and his employees will have to pay individually for their health insurance (average cost $12,000 per year), they'll get a $5,000 tax credit under McCain, but be out of pocket at least $7,000 per year for their policy. Either way, Joe will pay MORE taxes under McCain's plan.

My impression is that Joe really should stick to plumbing and leave tax policy to Obama.

Joe the plumber should stick to plumbing and leave public policy decisions to people who actually know what they are talking about.

Oh, and maybe Joe should get a plumbing license, since he is operating without one in violation of the law. And those back taxes he owes.... Not to mention the fact that he is related to Charles Keating, an old friend of John McCain and the crook who brought you the Lincoln Savings and Loan scandal.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

benkrapf — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 07:16:55 GMT

McCain is desperate. It's sad watching someone in their twilight years see a dream fade, but better McCain get his feelings hurt than America suffer through even another four years of incompetence.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

NewsWkDickG — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 16:25:12 GMT

Is there anything worse than a Democratic Party trying to build a bigger tax and spend government to benefit the poor and middle class? … maybe, with it being a Republican Party boldly lying and aggressively manipulating for many years to create an arrogant government that does and spends so very much to benefit so few! Consider … Which has actually less concern for the majority of Americans? Which is more dishonest? Which is more irresponsible? Which is more dangerous? Which has proven to be more detrimental to our economy? Which has alienated our allies and lost our respect in the world? Which has actually cost America more? Which has let our infrastructure and our problems worsen (energy, education, medical, pollution, immigration,,)? Which depends more on distractions and subterfuge always avoiding the issues? Which, when we support and condone it, literally being manipulated by it, costs each of us individually more? Which do we really need to recognize and reject? It likely would be nice to have a third political party not focused on big government and not on big money but rather honestly and responsibly on the people … in the mean time, right now we need ‘real change’ and ‘no more of the same’!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Nins — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 17:08:47 GMT

To all of the conservatives out there who think that Obama is a flaming liberal, I would like to remind you of what he did when he was elected President of the Harvard Law Review. The Law Review President gets to name ten individuals to write articles for the Review, and these ten people get to control the content of the publication. All of the minorities and the liberals thought they finally had it made, that Obama would appoint ten left wing editors. Instead, Obama appointed three conservatives, three liberals and four moderates. That year the Law Review was critically acclaimed as the best run and best written Harvard publication in decades.

So when he wins in November, conservatives don't have to freak out. Obama is a centrist and will appoint a balanced cabinet full of active people who will really get things done. Kind of like the way our multi-cultural society is supposed to be. And exactly what we need in this time of economic crisis.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

ajironworks4usa — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:25:11 GMT

How can Colin Powell endorse either candidate , until we see the two answer to the charges here by this Court Document ??????????????

It is time for Both McCain and Obama prove their Citizenship to be qualified to run for President of the USA ?????????????????????

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/pennsylvania/paedce/2:2008cv04083/281573/19/0.swf

October 15, 2008 19 U.S. CITIZEN JUDSON WITHAM'S APPLICATION AND NOTICE OF MOTION TO INTERVENE AS A MATTER OF RIGHT FRCP 24, CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE. (jpd)

Subject: DEFEND MY VOTE

http://www.defendmyvote.com/default.aspx?vid=1

Let us Not Forget Who is Responsible for this which Caused the Pain we all face today , and need Change from so desperately ........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZVw3no2A4

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

ajironworks4usa — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:29:48 GMT

How can Colin Powell endorse either candidate , until we see the two answer to the charges here by this Court Document ??????????????

It is time for Both McCain and Obama prove their Citizenship to be qualified to run for President of the USA ?????????????????????

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/pennsylvania/paedce/2:2008cv04083/281573/19/0.swf

October 15, 2008 19 U.S. CITIZEN JUDSON WITHAM'S APPLICATION AND NOTICE OF MOTION TO INTERVENE AS A MATTER OF RIGHT FRCP 24, CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE. (jpd)

Subject: DEFEND MY VOTE

http://www.defendmyvote.com/default.aspx?vid=1

Let us Not Forget Who is Responsible for this which Caused the Pain we all face today , and need Change from so desperately ........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZVw3no2A4

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Schipperke — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:25:15 GMT

What the *undecided* voter is seeing, and rejecting? John McCain is demonstrating anger, temper, dishonesty and disingenuous fabricating that disqualify him from being President. (I'll pass on wasting ink on his running mate.) We need someone who thinks before he acts, something McCain even SAYS, himself, that he does not do. We cannot afford impulsive decisions at the Presidential level. McCain's solution to everything appears to be *attack*, toss truth and reality out the window, throw the kitchen sink, even the refrigerator, and hope something sticks. Envision that at the International level! I was an undecided until this last debate. I gave McCain a chance, he blew it. I voted yesterday for Barack Obama.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

respect — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:58:40 GMT

Senator McCain is simply showing something that is called passion. We as a country have forgotten that he has put his life at risk for America, and continues to show strong leadership abilities that Obama just does not. You know just incase we should get attacked and lose more innocent people to the evil in other countries. Who would you trust to take care of our nation in the event of a terriost attack? That's a no brainer for me. Our economy will suffer from an Obama addministration that WILL raise taxes. You can bet your retirement and children's future on that my friend's. Let's don't let our values get misdirected by our economy that is in a slump because we had to make some selfless discissions in a country that is simply blaming a republican party for the well being of all of American's. McCain is not Mr. Bush. I have full confidence that he has the experience and resources to get the job done for all of us if we would stand up and quit crying as if we or owed a living. You will never be comfortable with Barack Obama Taxing our indebted nation leading us into another great depression. American's need to get their head's screwed back on. This should be a no brainer however, I believe that American's are being given false hope by a carismatic Obama. It's like aliens have stolen their brains in their sleep. This is sad. John McCain should be winning by a landslide if the American public would just ask...WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Sam10 — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 22:49:43 GMT

Putting in perspective, the joe plumber way. if you had to pick from within your work group, the choice of someone who is dedicated and will put in the time to get the job done - McCain. Or to choose someone who talks work, tries to be the boss's buddy and leave all the work for others, Obama. Currently the polls show the zealots are selecting the no good brownnoser. We can correct those polls and elect John McCain.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

chinook — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 04:06:12 GMT

John McCain should be elected president of the US. He is capable and he is ready. NObama is just an upstart who's been grossly overrated. It's true, NObama will tax everybody and spread it to the lazy non-taxpayers. That is leaning the US toward socialism.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Jim Johnson — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 05:51:51 GMT

Obama's view of the future of America - Socialism which is the next step to Communism!! He admitted to Joe the Plumber than he wanted to spread the wealth! He said that he wanted to make everyone equal! Is America ready for Socialism? The Iranian president, Ahmadinejad, said today that he is glad to see the end to capitalism in America!! Are you glad?????

====================================================================================================

Mussolini, is "a life in which the individual, through the sacrifice of his own private interests??realizes that completely spiritual existence in which his value as a man lies."

Despite the intellectuals' psychotic hatred of capitalism, it is the only moral and just social system.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

haynessemperfi — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 06:14:02 GMT

PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE TO BE HELD SUNDAY AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY

The Free and Equal Elections Coalition (FREE) and the Columbia Political Union are pleased to announce that a Presidential debate will be held this coming Sunday, October 19th, 2008, on the campus of Columbia University.

ALL SIX of the Presidential candidates who appear on enough state ballots to acquire the 270 Electoral Votes needed to become President are invited. They are as follows (listed in alphabetical order by affiliation):

Constitution Party Candidate: Chuck Baldwin

Democratic Party Candidate: Barack Obama

Green Party Candidate: Cynthia McKinney

Independent Candidate: Ralph Nader

Libertarian Party Candidate: Bob Barr

Republican Party Can John McCain

The Columbia Political Union will present the debate from 8:00pm to 10:00pm in the Altschul Auditorium, located at 417 International Affairs Building. The debate will be moderated by Pacifica Radio's Amy Goodman, the host of "Democracy Now!". CSPAN will cover the debate, and live radio broadcasts are expected.

"The Columbia Political Union is committed to energizing political discourse on Columbia's campus," said Allon Brann, Columbia Political Union Publisher. "As a non-partisan organization, we work to provide students with opportunities to encounter and engage with political ideas across a wide ideological spectrum, and on a wide range of issues."

"It is with these goals in mind that we have organized this Presidential Debate: to give all candidates-- either within or outside of the political "mainstream"-- the opportunity to speak directly to students about their goals on the issues they deem critical for this country."

"We have invited all eligible candidates, and it is our sincere hope that all will participate, to ensure the substance and rigor of the dialogue which we believe is crucial at this time."

Certified letters officially inviting each candidate have been sent to the respective campaigns.

The Free and Equal Elections Coalition and the Columbia Political Union await the response from the candidates. All candidates' supporters are encouraged to contact the Presidential campaigns and urge them to attend.

The Columbia Political Union seeks to enhance involvement in the political process, domestic and international, and draw every member of the campus community into an ongoing discussion of political ideas.

FREE is a coalition of political parties, independent citizens and civic organizations formed to promote free and equal elections in the United States.

http://www.freeandequal.org/events.php?id=7

FREEDOM ISN'T FREE

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

DavidHouston — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 06:42:06 GMT

In the third presidential debate Senator Obama made the claim that he would ban Partial Birth abortions if protection was given with regards to the health of the mother. This is an empty argument since the baby is killed after it has been 90% delivered and only its head is still in the womb. The mother's health is not in jeopardy for that last second it takes to deliver the baby. He is just being dishonest. Take a look at this video which goes into detail of this hideous procedure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5qu87aXc20

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

NewsWkDickG — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:20:26 GMT

As the story goes, McCain has now invited Joe the Plumber to join the campaign tour even though McCain knows that none of 'facts' he tries to use about Joe are true: Joe only makes about $42k / year; Joe isn't anywhere near being able to buy the business; Joe would be better off under Obama's tax plan; and Joe is currently in trouble with the IRS for unpaid back taxes. Regrettably it is not uncommon to see a measure of negativity and even questionable integrity and some dishonesty in presidential campaigns but I don’t think it has ever been as bad as we are seeing now. The ‘swift boat’ attacks on John Kerry definitely fell into that category but they were almost mild compared to what the McCain-Palin camp is doing. Since Palin came on board she has demonstrated a total absence of any need to insure fact and appropriateness and has simply been caught several times, which she then just shrugs off; that may be due in part to her writers and their efforts to overcome her knowledge shortfall. While it does reflect heavily on her character it hasn’t been limited to her and as the numbers keep favoring Obama more, the whole McCain camp has become more desperate and while really neglecting the issues has become more negative and demonstrates less quality. They are digging for and using any dirt without regard for its pertinence or validity. Recently John McCain admitted that the attacks on Obama regarding Bill Ayers were really stretching things yet his campaign is now conducting automated phone calls referring to it as being a terrorist connection and implying it negatively impacts Obama. Anyone who saw the last debate has to know that Obama answered that accusation and then the ACORN accusation as well completely and reasonably with valid answers and then challenged McCain to deal with the real issues which are so important to the voters. McCain-Palin’s refusal to focus on the issues tells its own story and their continuing with the totally negative approach tells another story: first, they have no valid answers for accomplishing real change or any resolution of the problems; second, their negativity identifies their preferred way of handling things and even their personal character. It would be a terrible shame if McCain’s tactics work as we have just had one president who has been grossly dishonest, arrogant, self-indulgent, irresponsible, without conscience and totally focused on a private agenda for the benefit of a select few and we sure don’t need to follow with another one. Better said, we literally can’t take more of the same!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Jim Johnson — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 17:35:54 GMT

Everyone of voting age should read these two books written by Obama, 'Dreams of My Father' and 'Audacity of Hope'. Don't buy them, get them from the library before they are removed from the shelves.

From 'Dreams of My Father', "I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites."

From 'Dreams of My Father', "'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race."

From 'Dreams of My Father', "There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white."

From 'Dreams of My Father', "It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names."

From 'Dreams of My Father', "I never emulate WHITE men and BROWN men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela."

And FINALLY the Most Damning one of ALL of them!!!

From 'Audacity of Hope', "I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Jim Johnson — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 17:37:12 GMT

====================================================================================================

Mussolini, is "a life in which the individual, through the sacrifice of his own private interests??realizes that completely spiritual existence in which his value as a man lies."

Despite the intellectuals' psychotic hatred of capitalism, it is the only moral and just social system.

Yes, there are winners and losers in capitalism. The winners are those who are honest, industrious, thoughtful, prudent, frugal, responsible, disciplined, and efficient. The losers are those who are shiftless, lazy, imprudent, extravagant, negligent, impractical, and inefficient. [What about the role of luck being in the right place at the right time or the wrong place at the wrong time? R. R. Pope}

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Jim Johnson — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 17:44:24 GMT

NewsWkDickG,

You dumbass liberals are thickheaded. Pull you head out of Obama's a$$, and at least, act intelligent. No one cares about the honesty or the background of Joe the plumber. He asked a simple question of Obama and Obama gave the scariest answer I have ever heard from an American presidential candidate. Obama wants to 'spread the wealth'. He wants to kill the ambition and growth of all small and large businesses. He wants to kill the ambition of anyone who works extremely hard to accumulate a little wealth by taking it from them and giving it to the lazy, worthless people who would rather beg than work. Stop showing your ignorance and stupidity!!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Z_ck! — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 20:17:15 GMT

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

respect — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 20:50:53 GMT

PLEASE PEOPLE, WE ARE BETTER EDUCATED THAN TO THINK TWICE

ABOUT WHO CAN DO THIS JOB. MR. MCCAIN SHOULD NOT EVEN HAVE

CONTINUE TO BEG US TO LET HIM HELP US. BETWEEN THE 2, THIS SHOULD

BE A SLAM DUNK FOR MCCAIN.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

in texas — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:28:35 GMT

If people would think back President Clinton is who signed the bill for the housing law. It gave the right for people to borrow beyond their income to buy houses and real estate. Bush exacerbated the problem but Clinton started it. If people would live within their means then we wouldn't be in this mess. I make less that $75,000/year and have a mortgage on my house. I did my homework and balanced my budget to make sure that I could make the payments BEFORE I bought it. Everyone deserved a safe place to live but do they need a house that is well beyond their budgets? Mc Cain will help us. Be very careful about Obama. You have heard about wolves in sheeps clothing. The media needs to be equal and UNBIASED. I see very little of this on any news site. The media should give facts only NOT opinions.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

in texas — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:37:04 GMT

I have heard Obama several times say that he "understands what it's like to be middle class" or didn't have much? Has anyone looked at how much the colleges that both he and his wife attended cost? The day I can afford to send my kids their I will believe that he Knows what its like.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

sharenews — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:10:23 GMT

The impact of Obamas proposed tax plan would be a very bad for small businesses! Read on. . .

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

AN ARGUMENT AGAINST OBAMAS TAX PLAN

By GROVER G. NORQUIST | 7/11/08 4:58 AM EDT

Grover Norquist is president of Americans for Tax Reform and author of: Leave Us Alone - Getting the Governments Hands Off Our Money, Our Guns, Our Lives.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11670.html

The Tax Policy Center and the Barack Obama campaign used some sleight of hand this week in Politico. To quote Eric Tolder of the TPC, “Most small-business people, like most everyone else, are not really high-income.” While this is true, it completely and totally misses the point.

Lets start with the DEFINITION of a SMALL BUSINESS. Most will tell you that small-business income constitutes income derived from sole proprietorships, partnerships and Subchapter S corporations.

The conservative argument (and that of the John McCain campaign) is that OBAMAs stated PLAN TO RAISE TAXES ON HOUSEHOLDS MAKING $250,000 OR MORE in income is a TAX INCREASE ON SMALL BUSINESS. The simple answer to this dilemma can be found in the IRS Statistics of Income Bulletin (Table 1.4, for those who are interested: http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxstats/article/0,,id=96981,00.html )

SO WHAT DO THE DATA SAY?

In 2006 (the latest year available), $706 BILLION of such income was REPORTED to the INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE. Of this, about half was reported by households in the top marginal income tax rate. Interestingly, TWO-THIRDS of this INCOME was REPORTED BY HOUSEHOLDS making $250,000 per year or more . . . the very SAME HOUSEHOLDS that Obama wants to INCREASE TAXES ON.

The Obama campaign maintains that the number of small-business owners is what is important. ECONOMISTS know what MATTERS IS THE TAX RATE that is APPLIED TO the BULK OF SMALL-BUSINESS INCOME. Make NO MISTAKE about it: Obamas plan to raise taxes on households making more than $250,000 WILL RAISE TAXES ON MOST SMALL-BUSINESS PROFITS in America.

What type of tax rate are we talking about? Currently, S CORPORATIONs face a top tax rate of 35 percent, while SOLE PROPRIETORS and GENERAL PARTNERS face a tax rate of 37.9 percent (since they are re responsible for paying both income tax and the Medicare component of the payroll tax).

Partner rate WOULD RISE FROM 37.9 percent all the way up to a STAGGERING 50.3 PERCENT. Many Democrats in Congress have proposed making ALL SMALL BUSINESSES (including S corporations) pay this 50-plus percent rate. A small business tax rate that high would be the highest marginal rate faced by them in nearly a quarter-century.

WHAT would a WORLD LOOK LIKE where TWO-THIRDS of all SMALL-BUSINESS income would be TAXED AT A 50 percent rate? The economic law that TAXING SOMETHING MORE and GETTING LESS OF IT would apply. FEWER Americans would be INTERESTED in OPENING or EXPANDING small businesses. TAX EVASION and legal tax avoidance would spike, as tax shelters would once again become a booming industry. Since small businesses create a majority of jobs in America, MAIN STREET CLOSING UP shop will have a direct impact on the family budget, as well. PLANTS and EQUIPMENT WILL GO UNUSED. Despite the misguided opinions of static scorers in Washington, federal tax revenues will likely decline as THE ECONOMY STAGGERS INTO A FULL-ON RECESSION.

WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE? One place to look is the optional ALTERNATE TAX SYSTEM originally proposed by Congressman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) and now ENDORSED by MCCAIN. It would give households (including those with small business income) a CHOICE between the current tax code and one with a top rate of 25 percent on all income over $100,000. This would have the BENEFICIAL EFFECT OF LOWERING THE TAX RATE ON MOST SMALL-BUSINESS INCOME BY 10 PERCENTAGE POINTS. Small businesses have not faced a tax rate that low in quite some time and would be likely to respond with the CREATION OF NEW businesses and more investment in existing businesses.

The MCCAIN SMALL BUSINESS TAX PLAN does not end there. For those businesses that are organized as conventional corporations, the TOP TAX rate would FALL FROM 35 percent TO 25 percent, the European average. For all businesses, technology and equipment - which now must be slowly depreciated over many years - would be IMMEDIATELY EXPENSED IN YEAR ONE.

Stepping back, VOTERS and POLICYMAKERS should ASK THEMSELVES whether they want:

TWO-THIRDS of small business INCOME TAXED AT A 50 percent tax rate. . . . OR. . . . . .if they want nearly ALL SMALL-BUSINESS income TAXED AT A 25 percent tax rate.

They should ask themselves whether its healthier for small businesses to WRITE OFF a COMPUTER over six (6) CALENDAR YEARS or to simply WRITE IT OFF IN YEAR ONE. To Americas small business sector, the answer is obvious.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11670.html

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

sharenews — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:47:09 GMT

On October 15th, Senator Joe Biden told Ohio voters that he and Sen. Barack Obama would focus on one specific issue, a THREE (3?) LETTER word: J - O - B - S

LOL

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Other gaffes of Biden:

* Biden tells Senator Chuck Graham (wheel-chair bound) to STAND UP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRV5Y1JCGRI

Cartoon about the above: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHs_OZw-ONw&feature=related

* When asked about the ad that talks about McCain not knowing how to use a computer, Biden responded with: I think its terrible. (Obama actually authorized its realize and Biden made him look stupid). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=409jcimk164

* I think Hillary might have been a better pick than me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM537BgCsMg

* Joe Biden: Wealthy Paying Higher Taxes Patriotic Thing To Do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCqgNWRjmAc

* RACIST SLIP: Why in his very home state, you can't even go to a 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts without having a slight Indian accent. www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM19YOqs7hU

(Biden added the next day on MSNBC: It was meant as a compliment!)

* A man who will be the next President of the United States will be Barack America:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTjlAd-GXM

* BIDEN BRAGS . . . MY STATE IS A SLAVE STATE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFduMuP7v-k

* Joe Biden was criticized for describing Obama to the New York Observer as the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright AND CLEAN and a nice-looking guy. Biden stated, It was meant as a compliment!

* Joe Biden drunk on campaign trail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TBNeNHHXEY&feature=related

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

sharenews — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:54:49 GMT

The impact of Obamas proposed tax plan would have a very negative impact on many small businesses in our country! Read on. . .

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

AN ARGUMENT AGAINST OBAMAS TAX PLAN

By GROVER G. NORQUIST | 7/11/08 4:58 AM EDT

Grover Norquist is president of Americans for Tax Reform and author of: Leave Us Alone - Getting the Governments Hands Off Our Money, Our Guns, Our Lives.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11670.html

Lets start with the DEFINITION of a SMALL BUSINESS. Most will tell you that small-business income constitutes income derived from sole proprietorships, partnerships and Subchapter S corporations.

The conservative argument (and that of the John McCain campaign) is that OBAMAs stated PLAN TO RAISE TAXES ON HOUSEHOLDS MAKING $250,000 OR MORE in income is a TAX INCREASE ON SMALL BUSINESS.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The simple answer to this dilemma can be found in the IRS Statistics of Income Bulletin (Table 1.4, for those who are interested:

http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxstats/article/0,,id=96981,00.html

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

SO WHAT DO THE DATA SAY?

Under OBAMAS (TAX) PLAN to let the scheduled 2011 tax rate hikes occur, and his plan to raise the self-employment tax on those making more than $250,000, the S corporation rate WOULD RISE from 35 percent to 39.6 percent. The Sole Proprietor and Partner rate WOULD RISE FROM 37.9 percent all the way up to a STAGGERING 50.3 PERCENT. Many Democrats in Congress have proposed making ALL SMALL BUSINESSES (including S corporations) pay this 50-plus percent rate. A small business tax rate that high would be the highest marginal rate faced by them in nearly a quarter-century.

Stepping back, VOTERS and POLICYMAKERS should ASK THEMSELVES whether they want:

TWO-THIRDS of small business INCOME TAXED AT A 50 percent tax rate. . . . OR. . . . . .if they want nearly ALL SMALL-BUSINESS income TAXED AT A 25 percent tax rate.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11670.html

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

sharenews — Sun, 19 Oct 2008 02:57:06 GMT

Communist Party Backs Obama

AIM Column | By Cliff Kincaid | July 3, 2008

Excerpt:

Barack Obamas patriotic tour (this summer) has run into a snag. More EVIDENCE OF COMMUNIST BACKING for the candidate has surfaced. The LATEST TO EMERGE PUBLICLY IN OBAMAS CAMP is JOELLE FISHMAN (Google her sharenews says), the chairman of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA) Political Action Commission. In a column titled, Big political shifts are underway, Fishman says that Obama could lead a landslide defeat of the Republican ultra-right this November and that HE IS READY TO LISTEN TO THE LEFT and PROGRESSIVE VOTERS BACKING HIM. Fishman makes it clear that the CPUSA is part of this coalition.

Meanwhile, admitted CPUSA member ALAN MAKI, writing on the official Barack Obama website, in the community blogs (which might have since been purged) section under an Obama 08 banner, has MENTIONED THE UNMENTIONABLE. That is the role of CPUSA member FRANK MARSHALL DAVIS in mentoring Obama during his fORMATIVE high school YEARS IN HAWAII.

Although fine print at the bottom of the page says that Content on blogs in My.BarackObama represents the opinions of community members and in no way should be interpreted as endorsed or approved by the campaign, the INFORMATION provided by (Alan) MAKI IS DEADLY CONFIRMATION that a hard-core CPUSA MEMBER PLAYED A KEY ROLE in helping RAISE OBAMA. It is a STORY THAT MOST MEDIA, INCLUDING SOME CONSERVATIVE NEWS OUTLETS, HAVE SHIED AWAY FROM.

Davis, who died in 1987, was a STALINIST who stayed with the CPUSA when others were abandoning it, and he refused, as late as 1956, to deny his membership in the party. He was SELECTED BY OBAMAs WHITE GRANDFATHER to be the future candidates ROLE MODEL and FATHER-FIGURE.

Continued: Full story here: http://www.aim.org/aim-column/communist-party-backs-obama/

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

caroliavana — Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:31:14 GMT

My Husband and I agreed that the personal attacks made against Senator Obama from Senator McCain only speak volumes about Senator McCains ability to create original ideas and effectively problem solve.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

williamportor — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:16:40 GMT

McCain knows he's in trouble in this election, and he's swinging wildly at Obama. It won't work though. Obama is smarter than McCain, and less hot headed. That is what America needs now.

Sorry Republicans...your little wild west show is almost over!!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

DianaRo — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:15:34 GMT

"The Borgen Project has some good info on the cost of addressing global poverty.

$30 billion: Annual shortfall to end world hunger.

$540 billion: Annual U.S. Defense Budget."

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

DaveWK — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:36:55 GMT

General Colin Powell--another socialist for Obama?

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

krohn2 — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 00:46:45 GMT

Obama, the excuses are wearing thin. what excuse do you have for this one?:

http://www.againstobama.com/2008/10/obama-praised-searing-and-timely-book-by-ayers/

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

krohn2 — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 04:16:48 GMT

This is so true about how the election is already bought and paid for:

http://www.againstobama.com/2008/10/what-is-it-that-barack-obama-knows-that-the-rest-of-us-don%E2%80%99t/#comment-1929

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

krohn2 — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:58:47 GMT

FactCheck.Org is owned by the Annenberg group of Chicago! Talk about a conflict of interest! And Obama has been telling people on the trail to check out the site to verify his opponents claims. Funny, every time that he endorsed something, it turns out to be a part of his spin machine! Like he raised objections in the primaries when Indiana required photo I.D. to vote. He Protested that It took away people's right to vote! I

knew then and there that he was up to no good! America, wake up from the MASS HYPNOSIS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTs1YyhFRg&feature=related

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Concerned Canadian — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 04:32:43 GMT

THERE IS NO JOURNALISM IN THE USA ....JUST NAZI 'I LOVE TO FRENCH KISS' NEO MARXIST OBAMA PROPAGANDA MACHINE ....GOODBYE GOOD OL USA AND HELLO

BANANA REPUBLIC....THERE'S MORE FAIR AND BALANCED JOURNALISM FOUND IN

CASTRO'S CUBA OR PUTIN'S RUSSIA!!

SIGNED

INTERNATIONAL WATCHDOG OF JOURNALISM ETHICS IN WESTERN DEMOCRACIES

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Concerned Canadian — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 04:33:39 GMT

FOR WHAT ITS WORTH....CANADA WAS UNDER A SOCIALIST TAX POLICY THAT WE SHOOK OFF BUT THE USA FOR SOME INSANE REASON WANT TO EMBRACE IT IN THIS ECONOMIC CRISIS.

IN CANADA, SOCIALIST PARTIES LIKE THE LIBERAL PARTY AND THE NDP (NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY)

ARE OUT OF FAVOUR. THEY 'VE RAISED TAXES TO SUPPORT SOCIAL PROGRAMS LIKE WELFARE, INTRODUCED POLICIES TO MAKE IT EASIER TO UNIONIZE ETC., THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CONTROLS TO THIS DAY ITS OWN NATIONAL TV BROADCAST NETWORK CALLED THE CBC. FURTHERMORE THEY HAVE FEDERAL POLICY IN PLACE THAT CONTROLS THE AMOUNT OF FOREIGN CONTENT THAT MEDIA OULETS LIKE RADIO AND TELEVISION CAN BROADCAST. IT MUST COMPLY WITH A SPECIFIED AMOUNT OF CANADIAN CONTENT.

WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW IN THE USA IS THAT THEY ARE ADOPTING SOCIALISM WHICH MIRRORS OBAMA'S POLICY HE IS SELLING TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC. WHY DOES THE USA WANT TO GO DOWN THE SOCIALIST CANADIAN ROAD? WE CANADIANS JUST VOTED IN A CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT, WHICH IS THE EQUIVALENT TO THE USA'S REPUBLICAN PARTY ....TO GET TAXES LOWERED AND REDUCE WELFARE BECAUSE IT ENCOURAGES SECTORS OF SOCIETY TO NOT LOOK FOR WORK. IT WAS A DRAG ON THE CANADIAN ECONOMY BUT OUR COUNTRY HAS IMPROVED ECONOMICALLY BY MOVING AWAY FROM THIS IDEOLOGY BUT THE STATES IN ALL THEIR WISDOM ARE MOVING TO THE LEFT-WING SOCIALISM AGENDA....AND I CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHY.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Concerned Canadian — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 04:34:21 GMT

WHEN OBAMA WAS IN TAMPA BAY ON HIS CAMPAIGN STUMP HE SAYS HE’S CHEERING THE DEVIL RAYS.

WHEN OBAM WAS IN PHILADELPHIA ON HIS CAMPAIGN STUMP HE SAY’S HE’S CHEERING THE PHILLIES.

WHAT HAPPENED TO OBAMA’S “WE DON’T NEED DOUBLE-TALKIN POLITICIANS ANYMORE IN DC”?

OBAMA SAYS HE’S A WHITE SOX FAN...ASK HIM TO NAME SOMEONE ON THE TEAM...HE DOESN’T KNOW.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Concerned Canadian — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 04:34:59 GMT

NBC=ACORN=LEFT-WING NUTJOBS=ANTI-AMERICAN=NY TIMES=SOCIALISM=CNN=OBAMA

DOES ANYONE DISPUTE THIS? ....THOUGHT SO ....ENJOY REID=PELOSI=OBAMA REGIME FOR THE NEXT 4 YEARS...YIKES!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Concerned Canadian — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 04:35:46 GMT

BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA WILL SUFFER FROM THE "NOBAMA EFFECT”...TOO BAD...HE WILL LOSE!!

TODAY, AT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA'S DAMAGE CONTROL PRESS CONFERENCE ATTRIBUTED TO

JOE BIDEN'S "RHETORICAL FLOURISHES" RELATING TO OBAMA NOT ABLE TO HANDLE THE PENDING CRISIS IF HE WERE ELECTED. BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA GOES ON TO PROMOTE HIS ECONOMIC PHILOSOPHY OF "SPREAD THE WEALTH AROUND" SO THAT HE CAN CREATE AN AMERICAN SOCIETY WHERE ALL CITIZENS ARE AS EQUALS AND ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD IN ORDER TO PURSUE PERSONAL PROSPERITY. WELL, IN OTHER WORDS BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA IS TELLING TO EVERY AMERICAN'S FACE THAT HE WILL BE "DICTATING" YOUR PERSONAL FINANCES. AND ALL YOU GUYS ARE EATING IT ALL UP.

THIS POLITICAL DOCTRINE THAT OBAMA WILL IMPLEMENT IS KNOWN AS SOCIALISM, MARXISM, COMMUNISM, OR WHATEVER TERM ONE WANTS TO USE...BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THIS IS AN AFFRONT

TO THE FOUNDATION OF AMERICA...CAPITALISM.

TO IMPOSE THESE DRACONIAN MEASURES SUCH AS RAISING TAXES TO SUPPORT THOSE IN SOCIETY WHO DO NOT EVEN WANT TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES BUT OBAMA DECLARES "SPREAD THE WEALTH AROUND" WILL LEAD TO AN ECONOMIC ABYSS.

IS THIS THE IDEOLOGY OBAMA ADOPTED FROM HIS CLOSE ASSOCIATION WITH WILLIAM AYERS WHO ALSO IS A BIG PROPONENT OF MARXISM?

AMERICANS, IF INDICATIONS ARE CORRECT AND OBAMA GETS ELECTED, IT WILL PROVE TO BE THE THIRD TIME IN A ROW THAT AMERICA REGRETS WHO THEY ELECTED AS PRESIDENT.

AN OLD WISE MAN ONCE SAID ..." BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR ...."

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Concerned Canadian — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 04:37:59 GMT

NBC=ACORN=LEFT-WING NUTJOBS=ANTI-AMERICAN=NY TIMES=SOCIALISM=CNN=OBAMA

DOES ANYONE DISPUTE THIS? ....THOUGHT SO ....ENJOY REID=PELOSI=OBAMA REGIME FOR THE NEXT 4 YEARS...YIKES!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

ukboy — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 19:25:12 GMT

The silliness of assuming for a nano-second that Obama would bring in a Socialist state in the US, can simply be ridiculed and dismissed by the fact (that means it is real and happening CC) that the US Gov't of neo-cons and led by Dubya have nationalised a number of the leading financial institutions. They have NATIONALISED the banks.

As for facing an international crisis and not being able to handle it, I presume he hasn't read any recent history books or watched any other channel than Fox news. Iraq and Afghanistan DOH! The whole world was behind the US after 9/11 now they are roundly see as unilateralist bullies presciding over one failed war and one illegal war. It gave the green light to other nations (notably: Russia) to act in a similar way.

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

haynessemperfi — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 03:06:09 GMT

Comment: C-SPAN THIRD PARTY DEBATE

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/includes/templates/library/flash_popup.php?pID=281952-1&clipStart=&clipStop=

C-SPAN THIRD PARTY VP DEBATED NOVEMBER 2

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

haynessemperfi — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 03:09:52 GMT

Comment: C-SPAN THIRD PARTY DEBATE

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/includes/templates/library/flash_popup.php?pID=281952-1&clipStart=&clipStop=

C-SPAN THIRD PARTY VP DEBATED NOVEMBER 2

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Concerned Canadian — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:23:03 GMT

The only bad guy Obama didn't associate with was Satan ...or maybe he has and we haven't found out yet. !!

re: The Kitchen Sink Debate

Texan_007 — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 01:05:12 GMT

Its time to picture the White House getting a makeover, after its all about "change" isn't it.

Red Velvet and gold wall paneling. Perhaps Black too... lol might play some rap music as guests go to the inaugural ball.