Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

matthew.fumia — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:57:48 GMT

Cult: adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices.

Whether you want to attach a negative connotation to it or not, Mr. Romney is very much a member of a cult.

Personally, I feel that anyone that accepts ideas as universal truths without a shred of evidence must be mentally unstable in some fashion. It's time for people to move beyone their fear and ignorance and see religion for what it is, a disease of the mind born of fear that has done nothing but bring untold misery down upon the human race.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

RudyHuXXXtable — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:05:44 GMT

Before I say anything: I'm not Mormon, I'm Protestant. He shouldn't have to address his faith. At all. And neither should we. That's why there is a separation of church and state. His faith shouldn't matter, and the fact that it does is very sad. Being ignorant of someone's faith doesn't automatically make it a cult.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

marcellomancini — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:25:04 GMT

One of the biggest issues, I believe, with the Southern Evangelicals is fear. They fear that if Romney wins the nomination, and heaven forbid, the election, they will have to some way accept Romney as their political leader knowing that he is a Mormon. In their eyes, having a Mormon as a president means "Hell has frozen over".

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

hoopes_az — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:28:49 GMT

Mathew - there are a whole range of definitions around a "cult" and you've chosen or crafted a definition that fits your point. I do think you miss the critical point in that it is not religion that has caused untold misery, just as it isn't oppresive governments that have caused untold misery. It is people, who make decisions that are generally contrary to everything most religions stand for, who cause the missery. Often they do it in the name of religion, but it still doesn't make it the fault of religion.

Faithful adherence to any Christian religion (mormonism included) doesn't produce misery, oppression, hate, or intollerance. Problem is that most people don't walk the talk.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Mahonri — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:00:31 GMT

Great article Mr. Romano. You've made some very interesting points.

It's sad that Romney feels like he has to do something like this. What's even more unfortunate is that stubborn evangelicals would overlook the credentials of an extremely well qualified candidate like Romney just to save face. If they vote for Huckabee and somehow are able to eliminate Romney, they will end up handing the republican nomination to Giuliani who is the antithesis of evangelical values. I just can't understand the mentality.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Mahonri — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:04:46 GMT

Great article Mr. Romano. You've made some very interesting points.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

seigrella — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:22:21 GMT

I recommend the book "The God Makers" to anyone that wants to learn about Mormonism. Read it and then decide for yourself what Mormons, Romney includded, are all about.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

carolyn jay — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:25:55 GMT

The dislike of the Mormon faith has roots in some of their practices that have been more than offensive. Their belief in the conversion of all is particularly unsettling.

http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/ldsagree.html

The Mormon/Jewish Controversy: This web page chronicles the controversy between members of the Jewish faith and of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Mormons have been criticized in recent years for the practice of posthumously baptizing thousands of deceased Jews (among them Holocaust victims) and those of other faiths. In their missionary zeal, Mormons continue their wrongful baptism of Jews, attempting to convince people (dead or alive) from other religions to convert. It is insulting for a Christian denomination to perform their religious ritual on deceased Jews.

In a hundred years who will know the true facts about you and your heritage? Who will know anything about your family? No one. Very possibly no one! Because in a hundred years the record will apparently show that they were allegedly converts without making clear that it was by no act of their own

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

ccenger — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:27:11 GMT

Just for the sake of argument, let's talk Mormon customs: They don't drink, they don't smoke, they don't use drugs. They are encouraged to get higher education (and some of their tithes go to a fund for members in less-educated countries). They are encouraged to stay out of debt.

Hmmmm, they sound like trouble makers!

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

loop — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:35:42 GMT

Read up people. Go to http://www.whatismormonism.com/ and read all the astounding things about this "religion". Leaders who claim to have lived on the moon, preaching black people as inferior, leaders claiming to be greater than Christ, God having sex with Mary, believing you become gods and live on a planet when you die, plus many, many instances of so called facts being proven false with science, such as lineage, historical inaccuracies, and timelines that could not have occured. I am all for a variety of religious diversity in this country, but if the person with the hand on the button of our nuclear arsenal believes Quakers lived on the moon for 1000 years, I have to question their sanity. I'm not out to be hateful, just listing facts of this religion. Read this site, and decide for yourself, don't just take my word on it.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

seigrella — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:40:19 GMT

hoopes-Arizona: I am afraid that I have to disagree with you. The definition of Christianism is being a born again follower of Christ and believing that Salvation/Redemptionis a GIFT from God and not something that we earn by WORKS such as being a good person; for there is no one good , not even one except for JESUS. As clearly specified thorughout the BIBLE, WE CAN NOT EARN SALVATION, not by works nor any other way. Jesus, the ONLY SINLESS ONE EVER to walk on this world HAD to die on the cross as payment for our sins since NO one else was Sinless or Holy enough to attone for the sins of the world. Unfortunately, Mormons do not see the Christ as their Savior being that they believe that salvation HAS to be earned by works, nor do they believe that forgiveness is a GIFT from God. The are still toiling and trying to WORK their way into perfection and GODHOOD, which according to their believes may take eons to accoplish. Therefore, how can they claim Chrisitanhood when they do not even believe in the Christ the Savior? Also, if they are Christians, thow come there are no crosses in their Temples. Mormons are that MORMONS, just as Muslims are muslims, but Christians they are not.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

jdawg — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:44:15 GMT

For me it is not a question of religion as it is intelligence. Christians have at least some facts that back up their beliefs. Mormons are like Scientologist they believe that some dude in the 1800s named Joseph Smith stuck his head into a hat and looked at some scrolls he had found and wrote their religion. I mean all major religions, Muslim, Christian, Judaism, etc come from the same background and factual historic events they just differ on how they interpret the events.

Mormons believe they themselves will become Gods of their own planets. All of this from a dude in early American times who just made all of this up! He probably did after smoking a peace pipe with the Indians. Joseph Smith is their “Great Prophet” when there is no historical evidence that he was any sort of great man.

I personally do not care what religion my president is but I do want him to have a brain. I would not vote for a Mormon or Scientologist because the people who believe that garbage are not INTELLIGENT!

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Mainstream Voice — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:44:52 GMT

What is scary about Willard Romney's candidacy is that it put's into full force the Mormon machiney of deception and half truths that has fueled it's growth in the first place. Anyone who has researched the expansion of this cult knows it is a secret society that does have a hidden agenda. Don't take any blogger's word for it, read the consumate book on Mormonism written by UCLA history professor Fawn M.. Brodie " No Man Knows My History. The Life of Joseph Smith." If after you read this well researched text ask yourself would you approve of an individual caught up in this charade being President of the United States.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Melly — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:52:59 GMT

I am LDS (Morman) and I happened to have read the Godmakers, I laughed all the way through the book, then threw it in the trash. Everything in there is lies or taken totally out of context. If you want to learn about mormoisn, the Godmakers is not the place.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

timocracey — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:55:12 GMT

You can tell that this speech is definitely necessary just by reading these posts.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

loop — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:55:42 GMT

Melly- then where is? Lead us to the proper place to explain your beliefs...........

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Jayboy8104 — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:56:46 GMT

Looking at information from anti-mormon web pages doesn't tell you much about the kind of leader Romney will be. If you look into any religion you will find faults in the interpretation of doctrine and in their history. Would someone not vote for a catholic president because of priest scandels or because they have blemishes in their history? Of course not, so why does Romney have to defend his personal beliefs about religion? Those who discriminate against someone because of their religion are simply prejudiced people.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

jubilee131 — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:01:18 GMT

While Romney was a front runner he wouldn't address his religion. Now that he is no longer in the lead he is willing to discuss it. He has flip-flopped again. I am a Mormon and will not support a flip-flop because he has proven he will do or say anything to get elected and I can't trust him.

He shouldn't have to mention his religion and neither should anyone else. We are supposed to have freedom of religion in this country. I don't remember when that ended.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

ccenger — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:01:32 GMT

Okay, I grew up in Utah. The whole "living on the moon" belief is a new one on me!

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

timocracey — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:05:26 GMT

Jubilee, I am not sure if you read the article. It clearly explains the timing issues of the speech. I don't believe to be a flip flop at all.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

loop — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:10:16 GMT

Jayboy, Blemishes are one thing, beliefs are another. Any person in any religion is not perfect, we are all sinners. Even the Christians have had their share of blunders and perverse leaders-that is because those people perverted teachings incorrectly. Perverting fact is not the same as teaching falsehoods we know aren't true(i.e. making up facts vs. manipulating real ones). Would you believe me if I told you I lived on the moon? Would you believe me if you could prove with scientific evidence, archeology, that things I said simply couldn't be? ( Most Christian history is backed up scientifically, chronologically, where Mormon teachings bounce all over, out of order of known history) Would you believe me if I told you I would someday be god and get to populate my own planet, that Jesus and the Devil were brothers, and told you blacks are inferior people? The list of odd beliefs just goes on and on. These are mormon beliefs, and our potential next president shares them.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Melly — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:12:50 GMT

If you want to learn more about mormonism, go to LDS.org

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Chip82 — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:12:52 GMT

@seigrella,

Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the savior and redeemer of the world, and without his atoning sacrifice, no man can inherit eternal life. Only through following the gospel of Jesus Christ and relying on his atonement can man have any hope. Doesn't that kinda contrast with what you were just claiming?

For those fuming about voting for a mormon or scientologist, surely you should claim the same thing about ALL people who practice religion? I mean, the vast majority of Americans believe that a carpenter from Jeruselem is the son of God, and his crucifiction on a Roman cross somehow saves them? Muslims believe that Muhammed is a prophet. Hinduists believe cows are Gods. There are NO rational religions, because the very soul and definition of religion is FAITH, belief in things that cannot be proven, cannot be seen. If you cannot understand the concept of faith, than religion for you is just irrational. But once you understand the concept of faith, than you could care less about a certain candidates religious beliefs.

So, either ALL of the current candidates (Hillary, Obama, Romney, Edwards, Giuliani) are irrational religious nuts, or none of them are.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

ccenger — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:13:15 GMT

i'm going to answer for Melly (because if she can't spell Mormon I dunno if she should claim to be one)

this is the LDS (or Mormon) church's official website for their basic beliefs, etc.

www.mormon.org

why can't we all just get along?

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Melly — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:17:48 GMT

I didn't know you had to have good spelling in order to be MORMON sorry!

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

mark7779 — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:21:02 GMT

Jayboy8104,

Interesting point.. "Would someone not vote for a catholic president because of priest scandels or because they have blemishes in their history"

Why is it that so many people (specifically other Christians) so much more "anti" against Mormons than other faiths. Why do they spend so much more time and effort into trying to debunk/destroy the mormon faith?

Hmmm.. could it be.... Satan? :)

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

loop — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:23:06 GMT

touche, Chip 82! I see your point, and well made.

However, I do think believing someone is a prophet or Messiah (even if he is a carpenter) is much more plausible, than say believing a Quaker living on the moon 1000 years ago.

I guess I'd just like to see more evidence backing it up. I mean look at all the cities, artifacts, documents,science you can find that coincide with King James Bible and history. Show me some artifcacts, relics, documents, anything that show anything Mormon dating back before Christ as they say. Most of what is preached can't be backed up with any proof. Sure, that is the epitomy of faith, believing what can't be seen, but every other religion is pretty well documented.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

thiermom — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:37:23 GMT

regarding seigrella's post. that book/movie (i am not personally familiar with it) is anti mormon material. If I want to know more about something a wise person goes to the source. I encourage any person out there who wants to know more about our faith to ask thier mormon neighbor, coworker etc who is a member of the church. We are all around you. Come on don't rely on someone's perceptions, misinformation, and such. Go to the source, check out the church's website LDS.org or attend a meeting, I promise we won't kidnap you. The LDS church does so many good works around the world we just don't go out in front of the cameras for attention. After Katrina there was a press conference where the mormons and the LDS church were thanked for being some of the first people to respond and help (they are one and the same). There is so much misinformation out there. please just ask the members. It is not a cult, I can stop going at any time. I am a convert and for a couple years I did not regularly attend Sunday services. No one did anything inappropriate. And "loop" those are not the facts of this religion, again I say, go to the true source. A member can show you our books, sunday school manuals, etc. there is nothing in there mentioned like that in that post. Believe what you will but I say if I want to know about milk - I ask a dairy farmer. If I want to know the physics of flying - I ask a pilot, well you get the idea

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

shouaxx — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:41:43 GMT

Hey if i was atheist I would not even be considered in the white house so you know we shut our mouths when we want to cove the fraud behind religion. If anybody believes that native americans are brown because of sin and that is what mormons think than no I do not want you in the white house if you believe that than you will believe anything. Im sorry but I would rather have a non believer in god than one that believes that magic underwear keeps them phisically safe! IF YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE FAITH GO TO YOUTUBE AND CHECK OUT SOME VIDEOS ON MORMONISM OR SOUTH PARK AS A EPISODE ON EXACTLY WHAT MORMONS BELIEVE, IT'S VERY FUNNY!

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

dakar2008 — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:45:11 GMT

I believe both mormon.org AND LDS.org are web sites for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, also known as the "Mormons." (Intersting, isn't it, that it's claimed that we don't believe in the divinity of Christ and yet our church is NAMED as His church.) I have been a member for close to 50 years, was baptized when I was 8 even though no one in my family had ever belonged to the church before. My parents studied the church beliefs and allowed me to join because they agreed that having me live the principles of this religion would never harm me and they were correct. I am puzzled by all this talk of people having lived on the moon--don't know what they are taling about or where stuff like this comes from, but it isn't the first, nor I'm sure will it be the last time I am told that I believe something which is patently untrue. We believe are saved through the atoning sacrifice of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, but "faith without works is dead," so our church Does emphasize people's actions, and trying to live a life following the teaching s of Christ, not just giving lip service. If you want to know what a "Mormon" believes, I think you should ask a "Mormon." It's absolutely and correctly your choice to agree or disagree, but don't expect learn about our beliefs by someone whose intent is to discredit the faith.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

thiermom — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:45:15 GMT

Loop -

I think I can honestly speak for every mormon out there when I say - we have never heard of this moon thing. The other stuff is inaccurate the way you are "using" it but at least it is the usual anti mormon rantings. The moon thing is new and way out there. you are totally incorrect.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

thiermom — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:51:02 GMT

Yes, everyone go to southpark to get your information, that really is excellent advise. I think we should ignore the ever growing membership of this world wide faith and consult cartoon characters. I think that the many many good people who have contributed much to our society that are members of this faith should be ridiculed for thier "funny' underwear and we should all tune in to youtube and southpark instead. Wow that is good advise. Oh by the way this is sarcasm!

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

dakar2008 — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:51:57 GMT

loop, Egyptiona history is surprising well recorded, yet no mention of Moses, or the plagues, or the exodus of the Jewish slaves or countless other events from the Old Testament. Yet I believe it happened becuase of my Faith. That is a defining part of religion.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

reflectionswriter — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:17:46 GMT

Seigrella:

I fully agree with your claim that we can't earn our way to heaven through good words, for salvation is only through the redeeming grace of Jesus Christ. This is the core doctrine in the Bible (which Mormons read and love) and in the Book of Mormon (which they also read and love). You are well versed in the Bible, which makes this point extremely well. You might be surprised to note the doctrine you expound is emphasized in the BoM as well. Here is a sample of BoM verses:

"We talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, ... so that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins." (2 Nephi 25:26). That is, remission of sins is through Christ, not through our own works.

In another place: "And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning, and his mother shall be called Mary." Mosiah 3:8. That is, Jesus Christ is the Almighty Creator the deserves our utmost reverence and devotion!!

The Book of Mormon concludes (last page) with: "If you deny not Christ's power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the GRACE of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ." That is, it is through Christ's power and grace that we are saved. He is our Redeemer!

Or: "Be reconciled unto God through the sacrifce of Christ, his ONLY Begotten Son" (Jacob 4:11). We aren't reconciled unto God through our own works. It's not like karma where our good works will earn salvation. We are reconciled unto God "through the sacrifice of Christ!"

Here's one that pulls it together:"There could be no redemption for mankind save it were through the death and sufferings of Christ, and the atonement of his blood." (Alma 21:9) Jesus Christ is the source of redemption and salvation!

I have selected but a few verses here, but these verses reflect the CORE doctrine of the Book Mormon. In fact, the entire book is a testimony of the divinity, power, might, and grace of Jesus Christ, the Father of heaven and earth, and the "only name under heaven by which we can be saved." (2 Nephi 31:21).

I'm not saying all Mormons internalize the redeeming grace of Christ perfectly, but I suspect we all have blindspots here or there that prevent us from fully understanding just how deeply Christ sacrificed for us and how fully he can redeem us from our sins. However, I am saying that the mercy and redeeming power of Christ is the core doctrine in the Book of Mormon. This doctrine literally saturates the book!

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

salamumu — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:34:31 GMT

A semi-serious question for the LDS posters: After seven years of self-proclaimed "christians" spreading lies and misery and injustice around the world like the same are going out of style, why is Romney/are you so bent on association with the christians? That he/you are is the one big reason I won't be voting for Romney.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

ddickens — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:35:23 GMT

Concerning the mormon view of people living on the moon...Joseph Smith said that there are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old. It can be found in The Young Woman's Journal, Vol. 3, pages 263-264.

I dont think a candidates religious views are our concern...unless they are shrouded in secrecy. If he was a member of a secret club we want to know what they believed. We don't know what mormon's believe. Open up the secret rituals and he might have my vote. He fires his landscape crew but wont tell us the secret handshake and password in the endowment ritual to get into heaven?

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Justin.Brown — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:44:23 GMT

One thing I have learned through the Presidential race so far, is that given all the hate and bigotry that Evangelical so called Christians spout on sites like this, I could never vote for someone who believed like them for President.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

ccenger — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 03:26:14 GMT

Melly-

Didn't mean to offend you!

Just saying that if you are a Mormon and read the Book of Mormon, you should know how to spell it.

That's all!

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

set2free — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 03:33:29 GMT

If Mr. Romey will believe the history of Mormonism as a fact as stated in their books such as that to get to heaven they have to have a celestial marriage and they will be with all their children there which is that the children loose their right of choice but the biggest thing against mormonism is that they are intolerant and no one is allowed to leave the secret religious parctices of the temple worship with all of it babylonian symbols over the doors. Read the book "Mormonism Mama and me" by Thellma Geer who show that Mormonism is not compatible with the true Gospel Of Jesus Christ. My conclusian is that if he will believe the fiction of the Mormon Tale he is not to be trusted with the future history of this country or life and death decisions for the rest of us.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Justin.Brown — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 03:43:18 GMT

So the fact that Slavery was supported by Southern Baptists through the 1800's as religiously ordained by god, and then segregation after it, should any Baptist now then be disqualified from office? - If this sounds ridiculous it’s because it is. Judging someone today, because of what someone else who belongs to the same church, even a leader, is just un-American!

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

randduncan — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 03:48:53 GMT

Mormonism is a cult. "Cult" is generally a term we Christian apply to any religion that teaches anything other than "Jesus Christ is the only way for salvation". And I believe that.

What people (like Melly) need to understand is - there is the public projection of Mormonism ( that is acceptable and appeals to many - that is what they want to use to draw people into), but then as you begin to study and understand more of their dark beliefs.

Only those who are working their way through this "priesthood" are shown / taught the darker things of this bizzare Mormon cult.

Ask any temple priest - can dead people be "prayed into salvation"?

Is Jesus the brother of Satan?

Did God have sex with Mary?

After Mormons die - can they have "spirit babies" ?

Is Jesus truly divine and the Son of the Living God?

Their answers (if they'll be honest with you) will shock you.

Like Scientologists and followers of Ron L Hubbard Sci Fi "cult" - we can not have a man in the worlds top position who follows a cult.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

nufan20032003 — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 04:00:39 GMT

its stupid how people seem to hate people or think there "mentally unstable" based on there Religion and beliefs.Common now, thats like me sayin your stupid and your ill in the head because you believe in santa clause.i am not mormon,i have mormon friends,and i respect them for having there views and faith.I have explored into these books and videos that are litered with mormon bashing and misleading information and found there nonsense.if you want to know what the mormon religon is about ask a member of there church.thats what i did,i have even attended some mormon church meetings,there not as weird as people make them out to be.they worship God,study the bible partake of the sacrament, pretty much do what every other christian based relgion does.So whats the big deal?

People ,when voting,need to base there vote on political beliefs,standards,the economy,iraq,healthcare, and not on the religious beliefs of the canidates.if you think Mr Romney will be a great leader and you feel his view for the future of are nation is correct vote for him if not dont bash him because hes Mormon.I think mormons are great people but this will not effect my vote.My votes still for Ron Paul.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

jets — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 04:02:05 GMT

I could care less if Romney were an atheist. Romney is giving this speech because, despite buying front-runner status in Iowa and NH, he is 4th and 5th in national polls, and he needs the publicity. This guy's standards meet the particular audience he is trying to sway and impress. He is a phony, and with time, all the country will see it.

I would ask Romney what the difference is between Mormons and Scientologists. Both were founded by delusional men thinking they were prophets, and taken up by deluded followers. Mormons are always on a mission, and yet they have just 2 percent following in the US. This man can give give all the nationally watched speeches he chooses, yet the user-card salesman persona will never wear off.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Kallen — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 04:16:04 GMT

I do hope people really curious about what Mormons believe will look for accuracy and not lies.

BTW, "Mormon" is NOT the name of the church. It's a nickname given to members in the early years of the church by those who hated them. It was considered a slur at the time. The church began to use the name, informally, since that was what most people seemed to recognize. The official name of the church is, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints".

Of all the posts, here, criticizing Mormons, the one that seems most credible and sincere is the one that claims Mormons are not Christian because they believe that mankind must WORK for their salvation instead of it being a gift from Christ (GRACE).

I think that's a valid concern, when sincerely believed. And, I think it should be addressed.

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why ONLY grace or ONLY works?

I offer this as food for thought and not as argument.

What did Jesus do during the three years prior to his death on the cross? Didn't he teach people how they should live? What was the purpose of His Sermon on the Mount? Wasn't it to teach people what they should DO?

And, remember the young man in Matthew 19 that asked what he must do to have eternal life? Jesus recounted the commandments and said, "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments". The man said he'd followed them from his youth, and then Jesus told him to sell his belongings to give to the poor and follow him.

Jesus spent much of his ministry teaching people to live better lives. Why would he do that if it didn't matter how we live or what we do?

It is the "Mormon" belief that God expects us to be good, to repent, and try to constantly improve and refine ourselves. That said, it is also the "Mormon" belief that no matter how good we are, no matter what our good works, we CANNOT BE SAVED without the gift of Christ, our Savior.

Each week in church services, we partake of the sacrament (communion) to remind ourselves of the sacrifice and atonement of Jesus Christ.

I can tell you with certainty that throughout my entire life as a member of this church, I have been taught over and over the absolute importance and critical nature of Jesus' atonement. Jesus Christ is prominent throughout all our meetings and prayers.

Many of our beliefs about Jesus are different from other religions, but we unite with all Christians in our acceptance of Jesus as our savior. I hope this clears up that particular point.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Safado — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 04:31:55 GMT

I'd like to re-stress what some have said and possibly add some more to this discussion. First, if you want to know about someone or something, go to the source. In this case, if you want to know more about Mormons, go to their church meetings or the church's officially sanctioned websites, lds.org and mormon.org. For those citing other sources, please note they are written or established mainly by people who have personal reasons for speaking against the church.

The moon thing, never heard of it and I've been Mormon my whole life, served a mission for the church, gone to BYU, and am still an active member of the church.

Faith versus works is explained in the Bible by James. We need both. As quoted earlier, James writes in James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." Further, in 2:24, James writes "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." He doesn't say faith doesn't count - it does. He says faith alone is not enough. James also says "I will shew thee my faith by my works" in 2:18. Christ is our Savior, our only Savior. It is through His sacrifice that we can be saved, no other. The person earlier gave many examples in the Book of Mormon that show we believe this, so I won't repeat them. To me, it makes sense. To those who say all you have to do to be saved is profess your faith in Christ, why then do you go to church? Why do you help your neighbor? If I say I have faith in Christ, then kill someone, is that alright? Why did God give us commandments if works don't matter? We need both faith and works.

Why do Mormons spend time trying to convince people we're Christian? To me, it's the idea that another person who professes belief in Christ would have the audacity to say I don't do the same. Any church meeting I have been in has focused on Christ. I teach my two sons about Christ and the role He can have in our lives if we let Him. However, we are different from other Christian sects. So are the Baptists, the Methodists, the Assembly of God, the Catholics, the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Seventh-Day Adventists, the Lutherans. Every sect of Christianity has different teachings, but at the center is the belief that Christ is our Savior. If you want to see what makes us different, or what makes us the same, go to a Sunday service or check out our websites. We're not hiding anything. The 50 - 60,000 missionaries we have worldwide teaching people about our religion should tell you we aren't hiding anything.

Now, to the point of the article. I agree, politically speaking, Romney should not have to defend his faith. If he's Mormon, Catholic, Baptist, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, or whatever, as a politician, if he serves the people well and leads as a politician should, that's why you should vote for him. The issues of Romney flip-flopping are more concerning than religious beliefs. If he's just out to please everyone and get the votes, that makes me nervous. But, which politician isn't trying to get votes? My question is, what happens after they get the votes? What have they done in the office to which they have been elected? That is what we should base our votes on, not all this other extraneous junk we spend our time arguing about.

I would encourage everyone to vote for whichever candidate would best serve the country, nothing else.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Kallen — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 04:43:58 GMT

Flip-flop? Or open to new ideas?

I can't say for certain if Romney's change in positions is sincere, or not. But, I do NOT have a problem with a politician changing his mind. In fact, I dislike a leader who makes up his mind and is unwilling to consider new ideas. "My mind's made up, so don't confuse me with the facts!"

Of course, we don't want a leader who changes his mind with every shift in the wind, either.

But, I'm perfectly willing to accept that a man might be for women's choice in abortion and then come to realize that abortion is awfully close to murder. Wouldn't you rather have a president who's willing to learn be flexible?

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Wuzup — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 04:46:43 GMT

Wow lots of self-rightous indignation around here. Man lighten up! And hey guys rule number one of investigating religion and I have investigated many, is you ask them what they believe, NOT their enemies that is just stupid. I suppose it validates what they think they already know. Example: person doesn't like Catholics reads anti-catholic book and is now sure of it (brilliant). I love the posts about how the other religions can be backed up by science and history but Mormonism can't. Okay bring in the scientist who want to discuss how the first man based on the bible's own geneology is 6000 years old when clearly human remains go back 50,000 years, virgin birth, man living in a fish for 3 days, parting a sea, appearance of angels, resurrection of the dead, getting all known animals on a boat, talking asses (oh I guess that one has been varified by some of the anti-mormon posts.) For the haters and those believing that most of humanity is going to hell because they believe differently from you: show a little charity, laugh a little, get an enama,

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

dillet — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:01:03 GMT

ddickens: Thanks for identifying the source of this "moon" nonsense. Don't we read statements every day that are given the status of "Facts" by some obscure journalist who is misinformed or sensationalistic? And can you allow for the possibility that if Joseph Smith really said such a thing, it was a jest, subsequently taken out of context? Certainly it was never taught as doctrine!

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

EricMS00 — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:13:29 GMT

All religious people are cult members. I don't care what religion he is. I will never vote for anybody that believes in an invisible fairy in the sky. "Faith" is plain stupidity. Looks like I will be skipping this years election... again.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Kallen — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:24:21 GMT

BTW, US Senator Harry Reid, Dem (Senate Leader) is a practicing Mormon. Here is an excerpt from

http://www.house.gov/list/press/as00_faleomavaega/mormoncaucus.html

“I believe strongly that Democrats have many of the same issues at heart as do members of the Church,” Reid added. “For example, as a party, we believe it is our moral responsibility to care for the less fortunate and for one another. Also, one of the issues of most concern to me right now is our record deficit. We need to live within our means as a country and reign in the federal spending that has skyrocket in recent years.”

"As Mormon Democrats, we share a strong sense of duty to family and community. I think it is a good thing when we can bring our voices to the discussion of many issues that affect the safety, prosperity and quality of life here in the West. I hope folks in both parties take note of that perspective," said Congressman Jim Matheson (D-UT).

"I look forward to working with my Democratic colleagues in bringing a new voice to policy debates,” Congressman Tom Udall (D-NM) said. “As members of Congress from the West, we are committed to establishing federal policies that build strong, sustainable rural communities; ensure access to affordable health care; and develop natural resource and energy programs that protect water and our environment."

Congressman Faleomavaega added, “I commend Senator Reid for his leadership in the U.S. Senate and the Democratic Party. As the newly elected Senate Democratic Leader, Senator Reid is the first member of the LDS Church to serve in this prestigious position. Like Senator Reid, I believe the LDS church needs representation in both the Democratic and Republican parties. For too long there has been a misconception that LDS Democrats and Republicans do not share the same values. But this is not true. Our values are the same but our political philosophies are different.”

“Democrats support working people and have a difference of opinion from our Republican colleagues on health care, education, the environment, taxes, and international relations to name a few. However, at the end of the day, whether Democrat or Republican, our LDS values remain the same and this is why the LDS church, as a matter of official policy, does not support one political party over the other.”

---

I thought that was interesting. I don't know if very many people are aware that there are plenty of Mormons in the US Congress -- from both parties.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

waderyan — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:42:02 GMT

Wuzup,

Well said. I couldn't agree more!

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Papa Louie — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:01:31 GMT

I can find only one original source for the Quaker-like people on the moon story. It comes from a man named Oliver Huntington, who was 10 years old in 1837 when it happened. He didn't write about it until 1881, over 40 years later. Did he remember it correctly? I don't know, but I can't remember much from when I was ten. Maybe he heard it wrong, or maybe he didn't realize it was said in jest. In any case, the statement cannot be found in any of the writings or revelations of Joseph Smith and has never been acepted by the church as official church doctrine.

Do prophets make mistakes? The Bible is full of examples. Moses (the prophet who started the Bible) was denied entry into the promised land for a mistake he made. David (the psalmist who prophesied about the Messiah and who is quoted many times in the New Testament by Jesus himself) ordered the killing of Uriah to cover up the fact that he got Uriah's wife pregnant. And don't forget Peter who denied knowing Christ three times. Do we call them false prophets and throw out their writings because they made mistakes in their lives? Then why can't Joseph Smith be a human being and still be a servant of God?

http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/moon.htm

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

GlassChimes — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:40:47 GMT

I converted to Mormonism while I was in high school - in a suburb of Washington, DC in the 70's. I left my home in Maryland for the first time in my life to attend and subsequently graduate from Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah. I loved being a Mormon while I was in college. Everything had purpose and meaning. I didn't have to make a whole lot of my own decisions because the church had an answer for just about everything.

During our weekly devotionals while I was at BYU we (the students) were told that we would not be considered successful if we left BYU without being married. I took it to heart. In retrospect I now know how stupid that was. The prophet at the time repeated over and over how one good Mormon could marry another good Mormon and they would grow to love each other. In fact, the prophet even talked about how it worked in "Fiddler on the Roof" and that it would work for us.

So being a good Mormon, I accepted the proposal from the next man who asked. He had been on a two year mission to Japan. He had a nice family in Idaho. He was a little rough with me when he hugged me now and then, but when I mentioned it to his father he said that it would go away after we were married because it was just his pent up sexual energy - because his son was a virgin.

Again, I was so naive. The night before I was to marry my "one good Mormon" I told my mother that I didn't love him and didn't want to marry him. I told her that I did want to go through the Mormon temple however. I was scheduled to go through the temple at 4am and to be married at 10am. So I could go through the temple to see what it was all about and then I could tell everyone I changed my mind.

I went to the temple and went through all of the ceremonies. I was appalled! We were each given a new name that God would know us by. We were taught several death oaths and we swore that we would disembowel ourselves or slit our throats before we would disclose what had gone on in the temple. To say the least - I was disgusted.

You aren't supposed to talk until you get to the last room in the temple which is the Celestial Room. By the time I got there I was too angry to even talk. I went outside directly to the telephone and asked my mother to pick me up immediately. I told her that if I had wanted to go to a freak show I would have gone to Disneyland. And that if this is who God really is - then I would rather go to hell with non-Mormons because my God doesn't believe in such horrific and degradating foolishness.

She picked me up and we went home to talk. She insisted that I return to the temple to personally explain that I was not getting married. My mother was very much into etiquette and she felt I was honor bound to do it. I begged her to not make me go back there. But she insisted and said that I would be dishonoring our family if I didn't go back there. She let me out of the car and I went into the building.

I told several staff members at the front desk what I wanted to do. Within minutes the president of the Washington, DC temple and his wife, several men from our local ward (church), and the father of my fiancé were summoned. I was taken to the child's nursery room - where children are kept while their parents go through the temple. I was seated in a child's chair that was near the floor. For four hours I was told by these people that I had the devil in me and that my future father-in-law had a visit from God telling him that this marriage was meant to be.

I was 21 and this was too much for me to resist. Who was I? I was just some female convert. And this church is ruled by the male, God chosen Priesthood. What did I know? After four hours of mental brainwashing I just asked to be allowed to get married so I could just get it over with. When they asked if I was ready I just said - "Like a lamb to the slaughter."

My husband didn't get over his roughness. In fact, he started beating me up on our wedding night, verbally abused me and repeatedly raped me because I wasn't getting pregnant for the next year. When I finally left him I weighed 95 pounds and was bleeding internally from severe ulcerative colitis.

A wonderful Mormon male attorney did represent me. He believed what I said about the abuse. The Bishop (Pastor) of our home ward in Provo, Utah didn't believe me.

When I got back to Maryland to my parent's home I was very ill. One night there was a knock on the door. It was the Bishop of the Silver Spring, MD ward. I opened the door. He was immediately hostile. He said that if my husband had really harmed me that I should be taking him to Bishop's Court. I told him that I was still recuperating. He laughed. I told him to go to hell and to get off our porch. He then said, "Oh, what happened to sweet little Dianne." I slammed the door in his face and walked into the kitchen where my parents were sitting. I told them both what had happened and told them that I would never forgive them if they went outside to speak with him. Instead they just hugged me and said they were sorry.

Thanks to the wonderful LDS Mormon attorney in Provo, Utah I didn't have to attend the divorce proceedings a month later. While my attorney had my "husband" on the stand he was able to get my husband to admit to ALL of the abuse. My husband admitted that his father had beaten his mother and his grandfather had beaten his grandmother in front of him while he was a child. I was given an immediate divorce. I only wish I had gotten an annulment so I wouldn't have to count it as a marriage.

So why have I told you all of this?

There is still an enormous amount of abuse being perpetrated on women and girls within the Mormon church. In one part of the Mormon temple ceremony the women raise their right hands and they swear to do whatever their husbands ask them to do. Then the men raise their right hands and they swear to do whatever God tells them to do. This establishes a distinct chain of command that is routinely utilized by Mormon men to justify their abuse of the women in their families.

I am also very concerned that Mitt Romney is a Mormon and that he is still participating in these temple rituals that the church insists are sacred - not secret. Well, try again. The Mormon church is a brainwashing machine. And I have experienced it first hand - over and over again.

As for the death oaths - they were stopped in the 90's after too many complaints. It came supposedly as a "diving revelation" from the prophet. Yeah - just like allowing blacks to become priests came about when the church was about to loose their tax-exempt status over the practice. Well, try again.

If “divine revelation" comes when earthly concerns threaten a church then they probably aren't coming from God. God doesn't need to change his policies and procedures to meet with the approval of man.

I had prepared a rather in-depth page on MySpace regarding the Mormon temple ceremonies, but it was taken down. It featured a video re-enactment of the temple ceremonies. If you would like to see them here are the links….

Embed Video….

VIDEO ABOUT DEATH OATHS

</object>

MORMON TEMPLE CEREMONY RE-ENACTMENTS

</object>

My other main concern regarding Mitt Romney and the Mormon temple ceremonies is that he WAS a member of the Mormon church while the death oaths were being practiced. He is still participating in the patriarchal oaths, the secret handshakes and of course he has a secret name too. We can only hope that God remembers all of these new names. Otherwise all of the “worthy” Mormons won’t be going to the Celestial Kingdom – where polygamy is the promise for all men, as is their own planet to populate through eternal sexual reproduction as the God of the new planet.

Maybe the next time Mitt Romney is debating the other candidates someone should have the fortitude and courage to ask him about those death oaths, secret handshakes and new names.

If these facts don’t make you wonder what other type of hidden/sacred beliefs might come out of Mr. Romney during his stint as a President then you go right ahead and vote for him.

NOTE: I just discovered these recently posted Mormon temple secret “handshake” videos :

Embed Video

LEARN THE FIRST MORMON TEMPLE SECRET HANDSHAKE TO GET TO HEAVEN

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

standinginsomething — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:50:08 GMT

Mitt Romney is not a Mormon like George Bush is a Christian. Romney was a Stake President, he was responsible for thousands of Mormons. They would be required to confess their sins to Mitt Romney in order to enter the Mormon temple.

Romney would have attended the temple dozens of times while there making the below covenants:

...I covenant before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that I do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that I do consecrate myself, my time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed me, or with which he may bless me, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.

Each of you bow your head and say yes."

Romney's priorities are the Mormon church's priorities he wouldn't need to be given direction from the prophet. He already knows what direction they want and he has covenanted to do so.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

manonthemoon — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:20:37 GMT

I am a Mormon, born and raised- not entirely in Utah though. I'll admit, quite a few members of my faith are less-than-tolerant of the beliefs of others, and are also less-than-knowledgable on the way they should act towards others who are not of our faith. I also find, however, that many members of my faith are excellent, God-loving Christians, and are very accepting of the beliefs of all people. That being said, I still don't understand this need people feel to bash Mormonism. I especially have never understood why Born-Again Christians in particular SEEM to dislike Mormons so much. I have no problems with people of other faiths; all people are God's children, in my eyes, and I welcome the opportunity for others to share their beliefs with me also. Diversity is such a beautiful thing, why make a fight over it? I don't think that any of us, as Christians, are getting anywhere by bashing each other's beliefs. I really don't see Mormon-bashing, or any religious bashing for that matter, in step with the teachings of Christ and I wouldn't consider a basher a good Christian either. In the end, isn't all that matters is who is for God, and who is not? As someone earlier said.. "Can't we all just get along?"

I also want to say that several "factual proofs against Mormonism" that are supposedly Mormon doctrines are NEWS to me! And most of the quotes used against Mormons are completely taken out of context, as I have read most of them in the original context and the point made is not the one that anti-Mormons are making. Many of you simply need to accept the fact that the claims you are making are simply not true. I will also admit that, for those of you who mentioned this, you're right- there is little to no evidence or scientific proof to support any claims that we as Mormons make. Religion is about faith though, not fact.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

Johnny1967 — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:29:21 GMT

Granted, it is understandable for anyone to argue, with logic, against Mormon doctrine. However, any attack on Mormon lifestyle cannot be logically sustained.

Generally, the lifestyle advocated by the Mormon Church provides a safe environment for its members and families. The Church programs (Boy Scouts, Temple Recommend, Church duties, Welfare, etc.) are well organized and create an environment designed to help keep the members from straying “too far” from its standards. Granted, the lifestyle advocated may be too disciplined and/or “nerdy” for most people: don’t drink, don’t smoke, no coffee, no adultery, no pre-marital sex, ten percent tithing, monthly 24-hour fast, obey the law, serve a mission, and so much more. However, no serious argument can be made that this lifestyle is harmful or detrimental to anyone.

The members of the Mormon Church are rational people. They know that the lifestyle advocated by the Church is fundamentally safe and sound. Furthermore, they know that their lifestyle is not harmful to society. Otherwise, the Church would not survive.

This is my opinion. However, I’d like to hear arguments supporting or rebutting my opinion regarding Mormon lifestyle.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

AmosGraber — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:46:50 GMT

I just want to hear Romney say, "I am a Christian"....period........other than that I don't want to hear nothing about his magical holy underwear that all mormons wear to protect them from the gentile heathen society, or I don't want to hear him talk about his prophet smith, or any other mormon doctrine, why is it so hard to answer the question "Are you a Christian."...and in addition the only real reason I care is if he asnwers no, then he would be the first non-christian in the white house....its really just cosmetic with me....just wonder why it seems he dodges the question all the time...he always goes into what he believes....just like their prophet in utah tells them if they are asked, if they are christian it just scares me that romney and every other mormon i met answer the same programmed answer almost word for word....just a simple yes or no would suffice!!!!!! then lets move on!

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

GlassChimes — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 09:37:56 GMT

Visit my MySpace page to see more about Mormon Temple ceremonies and Mormon beliefs. This is America and I should be able to question the safety and sanity of a religion. Especially since I was once a member of the sect. And especially since this religion is hiding some pretty frightening facts about its beliefs by claiming that the information is sacred and not secret. Well if it isn't a secret - lets take a look at the sacred. My MySpace page address is:

http://www.myspace.com/glasschimes

I hope you will review what is on my page. I hope someone in the media will get the courage to ask some of the questions that need to be answered by Mr. Romney about his sworn covenants to his church vs. his duty to the carry out the wishes of the American people.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

tomtom — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:07:50 GMT

If we only admitted the inescapable truth-- that there is no deity who made us ,loves us individually, cares for us as much as a sparrow, and will be with us together in eternal bliss--then all this nonsense about mormanism and christianity would be relegated to the fiction section of this magazine, and we could get about the serious business of saving this great Democracy,which is cracking dangerously.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

tomtom — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:14:55 GMT

Why are these comments printed from oldest comment first, to the newest comment at the bottom?Would not the reverse be easier for us readers?

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

denmill — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:49:17 GMT

I found the comments on your post very pathetic. I was taught to get my facts straigth before answering any questions and that is not the case for most of the comments on your blog. The fact that mitt Romney is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) commonly known as mormon is irrelevant. When I came to the US I was in 1987, I was blessed to meet 2 mormon missionary who save my life "litteraly". As 15 years old black girl with a strong accent, I did not have alot of opportunities, and frankly, I did not believe in myself. I was born and raised catholic, I went to church on Sundays and did not even know the name of the person living next to me. When I went to the mormon chuch, my life changed "litteraly". Yes! I am proud am a mormon, an American Citizen, and a black woman who is a "Doctorate Candidate". You see, when I joined the LDS Church, I learned about BYU , a Mormon University in Utah, I applied the school, and I was able to get a very good education for no practically no money. Three years later, I met my husband who has hold a strong mormon faith all his life. My husband is now a very successful healthcare professional. I am proud to report you that we have been very very blessed financially. I am also proud to say that the mormon faith did teach me a great sense of responsibility to myself, others and my "Country". I have a greater respect for others even the one that do not share my beliefs. I believe that "Families are Forever" and that I was placed on this Earth to be happy, enjoy life to the fullness by serving others to the best of my abilities. I am blessed to have the knowledge to help my child understand right from wrong, give him free agency to choose, but knowing that he will take full responsibilities for the consequences. My son is 12 years old told me the other day that he did not feel any pressure to tell his classmates about his strong beliefs during a class discussion. He told me " Mom I had the courage to say in my class discussion that I will not drink, will not smoke, will not take drugs and will not have sex before marriage". What a blessing! wouldnt' it be better for our youth to have the same value. Think about the rate of child suicides, child delinquency, teen drugs, teen pregnacy, teen prostitution, school massacre etc... having a good value should not hurt Mr omney. It is sad that in a country such the USA, where we are all free to worship who we want, that Mr Romney has to talk about his religion. I heard those that said "he does not have to dothat" but are criticizing mormons" . I believe that Mitt Romney has to define his religion rather than letting someone else erronously defines his religion for him. I am proud to report that one of my favorite black entertainre "Gladys Knight" has been an active mormon for quiet sometime. But guess what" I have not seen horns coming out of her forehead". Lets be real Mitt Romney is a very successfull business man you obviously has a great work ethic. He is no doubt a family man and a christian man, who happen to believe in the Mormon Faith. I have just found out that while he was the governor of Massachusetts, he did not take a salary and that if he is elected president he will donate his salary to charities. He is obviously not reaching the presidency for the money, he must be very dedicated to his "Country".

A very proud and very blessed black mormon woman!

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

CCEd — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:06:24 GMT

You do not need to read any books to 'learn' of the Morman cult. Read any of the former women member testimonies to understand who horrid this cult is..

This isn't about religious tolerance, this is about supporting the likes of Charles Manson and David Koresh.

http://www.exmormon.org/

That the media is afraid to 'report' on what this so-called religion is about astounds me.. That Romney even has a chance of winning the Presidency frightens the hell out of me.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

BOBBAHR — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:48:14 GMT

Mormonism is a cult as defined by the fact that they do not accept Jesus Christ as big G God.

Any religious group that does not accept the classic Christian theology that Jesus Christ is God (John 10:30) is a cult.If he is not your Lord and Savior, If your theology says He has not risen from the dead you are a cult. A traditional russian greeting says"he is Risen" and the reply is "He is Risen indeed."

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

hoopes_az — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:55:51 GMT

If you want to understand the basic beliefs of the mormon church, go to www.mormon.org, a website sponsored by that church to describe it's fundamental beliefs.

I'm SHOCKED that folks thing the best way to learn about something is to first approach it's most biased critics for information. What, really, do you think you will learn by doing that? Virtually all of the references for more information posted here are from anti-mormon groups. If I wanted to learn about the plight of Palestenian's, I wouldn't ask a hard line Israeli. If I wanted to learn about the struggles one faces with homosexuality, I wouldn't ask an evangelical to describe that to me. If I wanted to know what it was like to make the decision to abort a child, I wouldn't seek that information from a pro-life zealot.

People have problems with what Mormon's believe...well, make sure you understand exactly what that is. The best place to start is by asking Mormons themselves, not by asking their critics.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

hoopes_az — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:25:33 GMT

GlassChimes. I feel for you. You are bitter and angry. Whatever happened to you, it's clear that you are letting it eat you alive. You are letting your bitterness define who you are and what you stand for. You should try reading a couple of books published by the Arbinger group. www.arbinger.com. I think it would help you find some peace.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

UnionFree — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:51:14 GMT

Wow, I am really surprised that there are so many ignorant people in the US today. People that would shun the though that they were biased against women or racial minorities have no problem judging a person due to their religion.

Religion is an interesting thing. You either beleive in miracles or not. If Christ lived then he raised the dead, instantly healed the sick, walked on water. His prophets saw God, saw angels, parted the seas, turned staffs into snakes, lived inside a whale and survived. Seems fairly unreasonable yet the majority of the world believe most of that. People have no problem with miracles that took place 1000 years ago but 200 years ago must not be true!!

For all those that don't believe in God, the theories are just as unbelieveable. This complex universe we live in was created by a single atom that exploded? No reason for how or why the atom was created? No reason as to the catalyst for the atom exploding? No explanation as to why evolution took place in the past, but over the last 3000 years humans and other known animals have ceased to evolve (physically) any further? Someone that believes that should scare you, but if he doesn't force his beliefs on me I would determine if he was qualifed in the traits that count to be President.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

UnionFree — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:19:32 GMT

I find it humorous that people think a man that believes in God, miracles, and other such thing must be unintelligent. This is a man that graduated with both and MBA and JD from Harvard Business School. Then went to work for two of the worlds top Management Consulting firms Boston Consulting Group and Bain Consulting. His job was to teach companies how to eliminate unecessary expenses, be better leaders and become more profitable and efficient. he went on to become VP of Bain Consulting and then founded Bain Capital. He is a self made multi-millionaire and has amassed a fortune greater than both Clintons, Obamas and most of the other candidates combined. He then was called in to completely turn around the Olympic games which was way over budget and stricken with scandals. It ended up being an enormous success. After the Olymics he ran in a state that was a Democratic stronghold and won the nomination as a Reublican. I guess that (since he is so unintelligent) he must just be VERY lucky!!!

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

GlassChimes — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:08:01 GMT

Hello,

Thank you to everyone for your comments regarding my post and this article that they are based upon. I am thankful that we live in such a free country that we can engage in this highly charged and creative exchange of ideas.

To Ms. Denmill: I am happy that you are pleased with your faith. You sound grateful and gracious and I celebrate your peace. As you can tell from my post - I am irritated about the past and I hope to move past those feelings.

Nevertheless, I do have intellectual concerns regarding Mr. Romney - but I do admit and commend him on that fact that he has made positive contributions in many of his endeavors.

Take a look at the statistics of drug use - especially anti-depressants in Utah on the web site of the upcoming movie - "Happy Valley" to learn the reality of life in such a controlled atmosphere. The LDS Mormon faith looks peaceful on the surface, but behind closed doors, in many cases it is quite a different story.

I went back to Provo, Utah to visit with some friends recently and I was shocked to learn how many of the "strong Mormon women" who were lifetime Mormons were on anti-depressants and who were seriously suicidal. One a recent phone call with one such woman and her husband he first lamented that she was so depressed that he was considering putting her in a mental institution. When I spoke with her she told of her hopelessness and that she barely wanted to get out of bed anymore.

I met this couple, who are now in their 80's while I was attending BYU. Their son had been one of the Mormon Missionaries who had baptized me back in Maryland. I later became very close to this man and his entire family. While visiting with his mother she confided in me that she really didn't love her husband and that she hoped she would find herself "sealed for all eternity" to another man whom she truly loved when she got to heaven.

I have continued to stay in touch with this family, who I deeply love and respect. Yet, I watch from the sidelines as the facade of their perfect marital union crumbles into openly hostile verbal and emotional abuse. I've gone under the facade so many times when I got close to Mormon women that I know there is something seriously wrong with what is going on inside many Mormon households.

As a woman and as a wife you are told to keep your troubles private from all but your husband and your bishop. While at the same time you, as a woman are told that you are being evil by questioning your own emotions and your own power in the patriarchal dynamic. Married women are, by temple oaths, unable to make important decisions without filtering them through a man. I thought that Lincoln freed the slaves and women were given freedom in America long ago. Yet, within the Mormon church the repression and control of women as a whole goes on.

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To CCEd: You response echo's my main concern. And that is - what is very frightening is that the mainstream press appears to be afraid to ask Mitt Romney questions that need to be asked.

The questions need to be asked not to persecute him for his faith in God - but to question some of his core beliefs that cause him to participate in rituals based on very unusual premises.

It is illegal to have multiple wives on earth, but Mormon's believe that at the most exalted level of their afterlife that polygamy will be the norm. Someone needs to ask Mitt Romney about what his highest spiritual goal is. It appears to be establishing his own world where he reigns as a God over a planet where he and his Goddess wives live forever in continuous sexual relations so as to populate a new kingdom on a planet in space.

Why is it so acceptable for us to question Muslim beliefs in martyrdom that results in a bevy of virgins as the reward yet so hard to ask about polygamous planets with "eternal increase" (the Mormon word for multiplying and replenishing their individual planets).

I truly don't want to be led on a national political level by someone whose goal is to be the supreme ruler of his own entire planet of beings. Doesn't sound particularly democratic to me.

Quoted from CCEd's post:

"You do not need to read any books to 'learn' of the Morman cult. Read any of the former women member testimonies to understand who horrid this cult is..

This isn't about religious tolerance, this is about supporting the likes of Charles Manson and David Koresh.

http://www.exmormon.org/

That the media is afraid to 'report' on what this so-called religion is about astounds me.. That Romney even has a chance of winning the Presidency frightens the hell out of me."

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To RudyHuXXXtable: Yes, I too believe in separation of church and state, but if you take a good close look at the governmental makeup of the Utah you will see that the separation is a blur - especially when it comes to women and non-Mormons.

I can speak to the truth of these facts because I lived, worked and worshiped in Utah for five years and I saw these things for myself firsthand.

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To Safado: You reference the "moon thing" and that you are actually a man who served a two year mission for the Mormon church. Well go to You Tube and search Mormon temple and Mormon beliefs and you will find the actual video of Mormon leaders explaining "the moon thing" as true Mormon doctrine.

Perhaps since this is aspect of the Mormon beliefs is getting as much negative attention as did the issues of black people in the priesthood, secret temple death oaths and polygamy maybe the Mormon prophet will have a new revelation soon to remove that inconvenient truth of the faith also.

If you truly want to get another opinion from a Mormon on the inside try reading Martha Beck's book - “Leaving the Saints: How I Lost the Mormons and Found My Faith."

Here is the review of her book from Amazon.com:

Editorial Reviews

Amazon.com

When graduate student Martha Beck’s son Adam was born with Down syndrome, she and her husband left the chilly halls of Harvard for Utah and the warm, accepting embrace of the Mormon community. Determined to assimilate back into her childhood faith after years of atheism, Beck’s disenchantment resurfaced when censorship from the church heavily influenced the curriculum at Brigham Young University where she taught part-time. More disturbing was Beck’s eventual belief that her father, a virtual celebrity in the Mormon Church, had sexually molested her as a child.

Beck frames her narrative around a conversation with her aged father, dipping in and out of stories of her childhood, marriage, third pregnancy, and teaching. She contrasts her perceptions of the leadership of the institutional church as controlling and patriarchal with stories of the warmth and generosity of her Mormon community. Beck unfolds her search for identity, forgiveness, and a personal faith in competent prose, punctuated with surprising dark humor and glimpses into her anorexia, suicidal obsessions, and alleged abuse. Although she leaves readers with many unanswered questions after the last page is turned, one thing is clear: Beck believes that "no matter how difficult and painful it may be, nothing sounds as good to the soul as the truth." --Cindy Crosby --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

From Publishers Weekly

Beck follows her bestselling spiritual memoir Expecting Adam with this shocking accusation of sexual abuse and betrayal. The book is full of Beck's laugh-out-loud hyperbolic wit and exquisitely written insights, but it also has a hard, angry edge. She asserts that after returning to Utah in the early 1990s, she began to recall horrific memories of childhood sexual abuse at the hands of her father, well-known Mormon intellectual Hugh Nibley. Although all her immediate family members vehemently deny her claims (and one has already published the positive full-length biography Hugh Nibley: A Consecrated Life), some readers will find that Beck builds a compelling case. She questions the legitimacy of Nibley's prolific apologetic writing and attributes his abuse in part to the pressures he was under to defend the faith even at the expense of truthful scholarship. Although marred by shallow, formulaic anti-Mormon criticisms and an exaggerated description of the LDS Church that will sound foreign to Mormons outside the insular culture of Utah, the book also describes how institutionalized religion can do terrible wrong to some adherents while still being a force of good for others. It will devastate faithful Mormons, satisfy disenchanted ex-Mormons and offer hope to those who believe they have suffered from ecclesiastical abuse. (Mar.)

Martha is a dear friend of mine and I respect and admire the enormous courage it took for her to publish this highly personal information so as to educate us all about the Mormon "faith."

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To hoopes_az: Thank you for your referral to the web site. I have visited it and I look forward to the peace it promises.

Yes, I am very angry. There are things in my life that have not gone well. Beginning with being raped by my brother before I could talk and living in a verbally abusive home as a child. And most recently to living directly across the street from the first shot taken by the DC Snipers to having a month-long anthrax scare at my place of work.

I believe in God and that all things happen for a purpose leading to greater growth, wisdom, love and enlightenment. I do not force my beliefs on others and I do not wish other to force their beliefs on me.

As I state on my MySpace site - "Learning to show love appropriately in all situations while learning to accept love given directly to me is my life's greatest adventure." - Dianne Pearce

I have moved away from the Washington, DC area because it is surrounded by chaos - crime, political corruption, etc. I have relocated to a new environment that is providing me with the beginnings of peace and hope. I am working with and surrounding myself with people who do work toward a greater good for all and I am holding onto their loving hands while I heal. I thank God for them all each day.

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re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

GlassChimes — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:04:58 GMT

Thanks again to everyone who have posted here.

Off topic - I just subscribed here online, but the right side of the member comments here are cut off. Am I doing something wrong? Thanks for any help you can offer.

GlassChimes :)

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

hoopes_az — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:18:25 GMT

GlassChimes - I am having the same problem with the comments

being cut off. Seems to be just this blog, not sure what the

problem is.

Your situation sounds incredibly difficult. I have no experience

that gives me context to understand what you may have

suffered through, but I do know through other trying

experiences that it is crucial to find a way to not let the

damaging feelings take us over. I truly do wish you the very

best.

re: Expertinent: How Romney Should Address His Mormon Faith (Part One)

votenic — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 02:21:27 GMT

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