Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

thebob.bob — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:56:00 GMT

Here come the religious extremists!

"The point of the Declaration is really to avoid mistakes of the past, such as when religious leaders did not stand up early enough against no-fault divorce", .... “I’m a former police officer and I have hard time with civil disobedience, but if it comes to the point where our religious liberty is at risk, I’d not only participate but would encourage people to resist.”

How does no-fault divorce risk anyone's Religious Liberty?? He's ready to break the law because a couple decide that they no loger want to be married?? What happens when the city clerk stamps illegitimate on a birth certificate because the parents keep their pre-marriage name and he thinks his religion calls for women to take the man's name?

Don't want an abortion? a divorce? to marry someone of the same sex? Don't! You have no right to impose your narrow religious beliefs on me or anyone else. Join the Taleban and move to the Sudan if you don't like America!

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

imfromcanada — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:58:16 GMT

This is USA. Those groups have the right to issue their manifesto. But I think most of the ordinary folks who are struggling financially in the present economic downturn do not have the time to read or listen to a 4,700-word document. Unfortunately, it seems that those group are out of touch with the daily concern of the ordinary people.

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

Boringyu — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:07:22 GMT

No one ever disagreed with the fact that "The sanctity of human life" is important". The old coots just didn't have the cajones to say that it's more important if the human happens to be a man.

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

Davole — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:25:49 GMT

These proponents of a religious perspective have reprimanded Barack Obama for his sinister agenda which violates the very concept of decency and morality.

They have boldly and honestly asserted that they recognize and oppose Barack Obama's threat to humanity which is purposely disguised as a vague and undefined promise for Hope and Change!

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

Davole — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:42:00 GMT

imfromcanada -

If "most of the ordinary folks ... do not have the time to read or listen to a 4,700 word document," then they also are ignorant of the restrictions to their personal liberty contained in a 2,000 plus page document masquerading as the democrat Healthcare Plan!

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

GNSS — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:46:42 GMT

What proof do you have that the current administration has a "sinister agenda"?

Please give examples. What proof is there that the health care bill restricts any personal liberties? Again, examples, please. When you object to any provisions, are they your personal religious or political beliefs that infringe on my personal liberties? As for the religious perspective, I believe politicians and the cleagy need to learn what the concepts of decency and morality are before telling anyone else how to behave. How many men, women and children have been exploited (betrayed) by the clergy and politicians. Too many to count! I am not even a fan of the current administration, but I am tired of accusations being made with no attempt at being accurate. If you want to break laws, go ahead. I still believe that if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. The church and politicians are advocating breaking the law. Does that really sound decent to you. If it does, you might be too far gone to recognize decent!

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

JeremiahA — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:12:18 GMT

It is about time that such a clear declaration was made. Many issues have come before the American people, yet the relativistic, post-modern definition of tolerance has not allowed such issues to be discussed in a civil, reasonable manner. Often people's views are dismissed as "that's just your belief" or "there's a separation of church and state in this country." As if religious people do not have valid, objective arguments for their views.

For example, the issue of abortion. Some people argue that we do not know when "life" begins. I disagree. We know that life begins at conception. The unborn child is human and growing. The difficulty is not knowing this objective truth. The difficulty is in applying this truth. Do we restrict the personal liberties of the mother or remove all of the personal liberties of the child?

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

Dredd — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:37:40 GMT

Much ado about nothing. There are people who have a real reason to be upset, but these wannabes ought to stay in the embassy.

http://blogdredd.blogspot.com/2009/11/gotta-pick-pocket-or-two.html

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

commieblaster@commieblaster.com — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:03:34 GMT

Why is Obama's Administration is Anti-Religion? It's because they are Communists and Communists do not believe in God. Overwhelming proof to back this claim here: http://www.commieblaster.com/index.html

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

Davole — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:22:32 GMT

GNSS -

Are you asking me to provide proof that the current administration has a "sinister agenda," and to provide examples?

Although there are many examples evident within this government's Power Grab Scheme masquerading as a Healthcare Plan, I’ll limit my response to the confines of this actual thread regarding the abortion provision.

The main objection cited by the clergy who have signed that Manifesto is the inclusion of abortion in the over 2000 page so-called healthcare plan. The proposal which was narrowly adopted in the House originally included abortion provisions, then they were excluded, only to be included at a later date, and then excluded again at an even later date. That same sinister method to promote Obama’s sinister agenda will probably ensue with the Senate proposal. And there is no guarantee that the issue of abortion won’t be included in the final bill, despite any sleazy orchestrated denunciations in order to achieve a vote of acceptance.

You ask - “What proof is there that the health care bill restricts any personal liberties?”

The mere fact that the proposal would contain over 2000 pages of purposely vague and ambiguous but legalese language is a perfectly constructed Trojan Horse to introduce any intended restrictions to your and also other citizens’ personal liberties. And the fact that very few members of the House, and probably few members of the Senate have read and understand the plan in its entirety, is a blatant abdication of their responsibility regarding the imposition of a bill which will control one sixth of the American economy.

The application of so-called healthcare funds to fund abortions would only be the beginning of a slippery slope toward other related government mandates, such as compulsory requirement that all pharmacists dispense abortion drugs, that all doctors facilitate and participate in abortion procedures, and that Catholic hospitals provide abortion, assisted suicide, and euthanasia services which offend their religious principles.

You claim that you “believe politicians and the cleagy (did you mean clergy?) need to learn what the concepts of decency and morality are before telling anyone else how to behave." It may come as a surprise to you, but most clergy and some politicians do know the concepts of decency and morality, although some of them, due to human moral frailty, do not always demonstrate adherence to those principles.

I do believe that the religious leaders who have signed that Declaration boldly choose to profess allegiance to God, instead of cowardly complying with the dictates of the “anointed one,” Barack Obama, and his sinister mob of anti-American malcontents.

You ask for my opinion regarding whether individuals who advocate civil disobedience are decent - they are just as decent as Dr. Martin Luther King was when he advocated civil disobedience. I doubt that God would censure him for that determined principled stance!

In summary, it may be you who is “too far gone to recognize decent!”

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

Acmacho — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:07:32 GMT

Do these pro-lifers condone "War". War does not protect the sanctity of life so by their same reasoning, they should be against war. It is evident that they are walking the walk and just using Christianity to justify there prejudices. Jesus would never have condemned anyone for their preferences, unlike these hypocritical blasphemers who abuse the name of Jesus Christ.

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

Davole — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:59:36 GMT

Acmacho -

Yes, these pro-lifers probably would condone "War" if it was waged to protect innocent civilians from severe oppression, gross intimidation, torture, rape, and murder!

Is your mental ability so limited that you are unable to understand that protecting innocent persons from death DOES IN FACT protect the sanctity of human life?

Now is that too difficult for you to understand?

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

drewand — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 17:44:50 GMT

It's interesting how these so called Christian pro-lifers have so little regard for other people and their needs and freedoms. They tend to forget all about the ideals of religion such as Love thy brother or God loves us all. It is also incredible how judgemental these people are when it comes to their 'pet' beliefs. Probably not as many of them are horrified by the wars we are waging or the horrific deaths that are perpetrated in the name of 'freedom and profit'. Judge not lest ye be judged comes to mind, what about it? Isn't it enough that you can control your own destiny? Do you really think that forcing your ideals on the rest of us is American.., hmm, sort of reminds me of the Nazis.

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

thehappyamerican — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:29:53 GMT

Republicans have to resolve to contribute to the campaigns of conervative candidates. The "moderates" have absolutly no spine or stand up against the leftist's discrimination campaigns.

That Democrats even wrote a law requiring Americans to buy a product or face fines or jail (health insuance) is an insult to our freedoms and citizenship. An attempt to reduce us all to subjects.

The Democrates will distance themsekves from the likes of the SEIU, CAIR, ACORN, National Lawyers Guild and radical kook groups but it will take real America to show the DNC how to reject them.

It can't be done by moderates, who only agree with the abusers.And advice we all calmly compromise to them.

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

JeffreyRO5 — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 04:38:32 GMT

Since Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Kentucky, Virginia, Ohio and Wisconsin have all outlawed marriage because of improperly worded amendments to their constitutions intended to outlaw only same-sex marriage, and,

Tennessee has outlawed marriages that don’t meet historical requirements, presumably a virgin bride, no sex outside of marriage and partners until one of you dies. So in Tennessee, if the wife wasn’t a virgin on her wedding day, if either partner has had sex outside of marriage, and if both of you are still alive, the legality of the marriage is suspect,

How do the "faithful" feel about outlawing ALL marriage, in order to stop gays from marrying?

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

ConscienceObjector — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:44:46 GMT

Be careful when you quote scriptures you don't understand in defense of political or religious causes. The "Judge not" passage is clearly followed with "For by what manner you judge you shall be judged." Clearly, those signing the document are ready to be judged, by men and God, by the standards they are setting for themselves.

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

NewsWkDickG — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:26:50 GMT

Just remember what their blind and single issues focus, resulting in total support for Bush-Cheney, cost us. All issues are important but the total picture needs to be considered in order to avoid (once again) having limited issues used to manipulate public opinion, with the result then in having many negatives pushed through and even little progress made on the issues used to excite emotions. We need to keep things in perspective and while respecting the importance of each issue, still not letting ourselves be manipulated by those who put all emphasis on just a few issues.

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

Davole — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:50:21 GMT

NewsWkDickG -

What factual evidence do you have that proves that these same members of the clergy, as you allege, provided "total support for Bush-Cheney?"

re: Religious Leaders Warn of Civil Disobedience

jbrinkmeyer — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:40:54 GMT

The irony of this group of ultra conservatives evoking the memory of Martin Luther King should not be missed. These were the same voices vilifying and demonizing King for challenging the status quo in a battle that was very much about justice. The spirit they represent has very little to do with justice and a whole lot to do with maintaining the prerogatives and power of white conservatives.

Civil disobedience is valid when issues of justice are at stake. All that is at stake here is white privilege.