Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

ToughGuyCDA — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 02:53:34 GMT

First and foremost; though John Wayne was diagnosed with lung cancer in 1969, he died of stomach cancer 15 years later on June 11, 1969.

I am a service member who has smoked for 11 years, then quit a year ago; appreciating the possible consequences to my health. But this isn't about health for me. To me this is a question of freedom. I took the oath of enlistment, and, in doing so swore to uphold the freedoms of my countrymen. I am disgusted at the notion of servicemen being denied the same freedoms as the civilian counterparts they protect.

Monetarily. I don't care. Smokers will buy cigarettes regardless of the vendor, on or off base. In terms of health, the Pentagon would probably argue tobacco causes too many man-hours lost in medical treatment. How many man-hours will be lost in people leaving military service in order to pursue their rights?

When does it stop? What will happen next? First tobacco, but what about alcohol? That's detrimental to your health and causes death and disease. Or how about red meat? May as well get rid of that too.

Don't get me wrong, I wish people would stop smoking all around to better their health, but I want it to be THEIR choice; NOT the government's.

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

jimv960 — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:06:00 GMT

Thank God I got through a six year enlistment in the US Navy

without be "marked for life" by tattoos or tobacco.

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

SargeV — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:29:20 GMT

I've been smoking fifty years and will continue to do so. However, I promise if I get lung cancer I will not seek treatment so my disgusting habit won't put a burden on the medical community.. Having said that, why don't all you moralists focus on your own lives instead of imposing your ideas on others?

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

SargeV — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:31:58 GMT

RE: jimv960. Man, you are soooo cool.

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

MarineSgt — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:45:58 GMT

I'm a Marine thats my choice. I also am smoker, another choice. I'm respectful of others .. dont smoke around those who don't smoke outside rather then my apartment etc etc. Sure it costs our health care system but what about the cost of all the smokers on non military insurance policy holders? No one would think of taking that away from them they just jack the prices.

If you would like to see some of the reasons I smoke well come on over with me to Afghanistan or Iraq where I walk literally miles a week protecting the innocent hoping that tomorrow brings another day. I spend some of that time missing some of my lost buddies, thinking about what could of been and what ifs. I spend most of that time in a crap load of gear that most of you would not even think of wearing because it weighs in excess of 50lbs in insufferable heat. Since I joined I have spent more time in both of those places then in the United States... another choice but more then happy to do it. Those are not all the reasons I smoke but they encompass a great many of them.

Good luck enforcing that ban. I am sure on a military base its possible but off it yeah right. In a combat zone..hahaha. When bullets are wizzing down at you smoking is the last thing you think of.

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

olderwiser — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:04:52 GMT

All the vices are going down, one at a time. One day, it will be prohibited for a soldier to kill. Wars will be waged and won with paint balls. And then one day, balls will be outlawed.

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

vidian6 — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:13:08 GMT

This is nothing more than a distraction from what the military needs to deal with, and that's "don't ask don't tell". The idea that smoking poses a problem for the health of soldiers is about as stupid as it you can possibly get. These soldiers have to inhale fumes for military vehicles, gunpower, the elements; while ducking bullets, avoiding rockets, and mortar fire. Taking all of these things into account cigarette smoking is the problem. This proposed policy makes me think about smoking as well - it makes me think of what the people are smoking who came up with this braineact idea.

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

cwinebarger — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:27:34 GMT

I was never in the military, so I can't pretend to understand what our brave soldiers, sailors, marines, etc, go through in combat. BUT I can still say that banning cigarettes is ridiculous. The amount of money spent on cigarette-related health problems for military personnel is dwarfed by other military expenditures. Give our brave souls the freedom to smoke if they want. It's the very least we can do. I can understand not selling cigarettes at a discount on military bases and the sort. Discouraging the use of cigarettes = good. Banning them = bad.

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

farneyblakeley — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:27:49 GMT

I've heard that health care costs actually don't work for justifying smoking bans because smokers don't live as long. John Wayne got his cancer thanks to making a movie near an atom bomb testing site, go figure.

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

blughst20@aol.com — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:43:59 GMT

I spent 3 years in the Army. Our breaks consisted of "smokem if you got em" and I did. While in flight school we had breaks in place ever 30min so I lit a cigarette and taught myself to juggle. Smoking was a way to releave the pressure of flight school, 18mos in Nam as a Cobra Pilot, and when I got home. I still smoke 2-3 packs a day and am alway asked at the VA if I want to quit. My response is and has been "there aren't enough meds in the VA to get me to quit. The weaning process must start slowly at basic with help for those who already smoke (help, not screaming). And work its way through the system. Ask the senior ncos to stop drinking and see the revoltl

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

eddiethekid — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:52:50 GMT

I never saw such a bunch of nonsense in my life. I served 19 months and 2 days in the army, a year and 15 days of which was in Vietnam, and if anybody ever told me I couldn't smoke, I'd have

deserted my unit. I went to Vietnam when I didn't believe in that war, but I wouldn't serve in any

branch of the military that took away my right to smoke. Secretary Gates is a disgrace for even

considering such a ban.

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

paul946111 — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 02:30:24 GMT

I am a 100% disabled veteran and this idea is the most lame brained idea. You can get shot at but can't smoke a cigar or cigarette?

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

glennSsch — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 02:33:33 GMT

If it's not illegal in America it can't be in the Army. I don't smoke now, but I did for 23 years. Although I think that smoking is a mistake I should never had made, I strongly disagree with this idea that the "Service" can control that much of a person's life. I think more the the younger generation smokes than before. If the DOD wants to go back to the draft, then good luck to them. I think it's idiotic.

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

distantsmoke — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 03:49:51 GMT

Here is the bottom line: The government (and therefore the American People) pay for our Military's health care. Thus they believe they have the right to enforce "healthy" habits on the benfactors of that largesse. Since this drives down the cost of health care. Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome to Health Care Reform. Those of you who believe you will be allowed to eat what you want, when you want and become overweight, well I have news for you. Those of you who smoke, well here is your future.

I don't want to deny anyone health care. But providing Government paid for and controlled health care isn't the way to go about it. The way to provide health care for everyone is to eliminate the health insurance industry. This would force everyone, patients and doctors to pay attention to the ACTUAL cost of the care. Something Americans haven't done in decades.

And for those sceptics who think I paint a draconian picture of the future of health care reform, the military already has regulations in place enforcing healthy habits on our troops. Failure to obery is a Courts Martial offense. So I'm looking forward to the day when Liberals outlaw twinkies. Canada and England already have rules in place that deny health care to individuals who manifestly live unhealthy lifestyles. If you folks thought the warrantless wiretapping of Islamists extremists was intrusive, wait until you have to prove you DIDN'T eat cake.

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

katana0182 — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 07:01:56 GMT

This is an outbreak of neo-prohibitionism. We get these social-engineering attempts every once in a while. Unfortunately, they never work, as the right to be left alone takes precedence over the right to make people be healthy, and often prohibiting something can lead to perverse consequences. In this case, what could those consequences be?

I predict that if this ban is approved, we will see an outbreak of obesity among soldiers. Also, without tobacco, which many people use for purposes of stimulation, or compensation for other problems, so our forces will be inattentive on the battlefield, and won't perform at fighting efficiency. The outbreak of obesity that the nation's suffering from is due precisely to people not smoking and living sedentary lifestyles. So, instead of contracting lung cancer at 65, and dying, they turn into fat pigs who contract type 2 diabetes and drain our resources in other ways. The proposed "ban" should be rejected, flat-out, as it will lead to miserable lives without tobacco and less readiness in the military rather than functional lives with that substance.

Universal health care is possible. But it requires just using it as an insurance program, like Social Security or Medicare, not as an opportunity to run people's lives.

Until that point happens, the present system can continue, with the significant reform that there should be a national prohibition against insurance plans not paying for pre-existing conditions, and making all health insurance policies guaranteed issue. The only underwriting criteria should be family size. If you're a X person household, you pay $Y, no turndowns, no pre-existing conditions, no pay-through-your-nose plans, no inquiries into lifestyle issues, no B.S. This places everyone in the same boat in terms of insurance. It will do for now, until the prohibitionists get over their frenzy with tobacco.

That may take a while, but it will eventually happen, as the diabetes/obesity epidemic spirals into high heaven. We will be a nation of lards rather than a nation of smokers.

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

cherokeedream — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:56:31 GMT

When we talk about political correctness run amok, this is it!! So much for Land of the Free....

We ask them to serve in this country voluntarily, all the while knowing that someday, somwhere a General will at some point tell them, "Gentlemen I intend to put you in harm's way" (I think that's a Gene Hackman line from 'Behind Enemy Lines'), and ask them to get their asses shot at , maybe even be killed. Soldiering can be hazardous to your health. I think its enough our Soldiers VOLUNTEER for this, I don't think the Government has any right to further say: "BTW, no cigarettes allowed, they are bad for you" UH DUH.....SO IS WAR. get a grip,

give me a break and like the soldier said....GO HUG A TREE AND LEAVE HIM BE.

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

BHussein — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:58:40 GMT

Amazing how many people are willing to simply give up personal freedoms and rights without so much as a thought. The government works for me, they are my employees, I ay their salary and I do the hiring every election cycle. I'll be damned if I will hire someone to tell me what is good and bad for me...I am a grown adult, I no longer need a mommy. Why the Hell would I defend a country that no longer recognizes my personal freedoms. The Anti-Smoke NAzi's who have nothing better to do than attack people who do something they don't like, are now making policy??? OK I want Snickers BArs removed from the shelves..I have 400 reports saying how bad sugar is and they "offend me". I can't stand seeing all you fat people walking around so all fattening food is also banned. Fireworks are dangerous and I find them annoying, so please cancel all 4th of July celebrations immediately. I hate them...Parades cause traffic jams, and the Children...oh the children are inhaling fumes from floats, please ban all parades. More people die from car crashes each year than most things, please get rid of cars..they are dangerous and besides all you fat, disgusting people should be walking more anyway now that sugar is banned....

Keep giving away your freedoms you PC Smoke Nazi's and soon you'll have none left.

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

jameskbachman — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:26:27 GMT

As with other addictive substances, education gets better results than enforcement. Sure, let the soldiers smoke if it doesn't give their position away to the enemy. Maybe some can be convinced to switch to chewing gum, maybe with a small amount of nicotine or nicotine substitute. Nicorettes?

The spitting from chewing tobacco is disgusting, but so is war. Kids see baseball players chewing and spitting, so they do it, too, and carry over the habit to the military. Maybe there could be elite squads that don't smoke.

The military can at least not encourage smoking. No special prices, giveaways. Cigarettes become like money in the military.

Training should include thorough presentation of the harm done by smoking, along with stop smoking programs such as 12-step programs. It gets to the point, of course, where cigarettes control and destroy the soldiers, sooner or later. In the end, though, it's the soldier's choice. I understand there are anti-nicotine drugs that take away the urge for nicotine. That is what should be given away free, not the cigarettes.

Of course there are those who smoke to be defiant and look macho. The enemy doesn't have to kill them. They will kill themselves, sad to say. I'm sure there are soldiers whose dad or mom died from smoking after previous wars when the soldiers smoked even more than they do today.

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

Michael J. McFadden — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:30:11 GMT

VT's Councilman Clark wanted to boot local vets out of their posts to smoke in the cold, saying “This seems like a good way to honor our veterans, to prolong their lives.” . - .

The Lung Association’s Joel Africk urged people not to send smokes to soldiers in Iraq even if asked for, saying “Tobacco use presents an immediate and real danger for our soldiers who are on the lines today... our troops should be sent care packages that don’t kill.” . - .

I'd like to see Clark and Africk spend some time with these fighting men personally, and discuss these issues of honor and danger with them as they stand in the snow outside their veterans’ halls and huddling in Iraqi trenches. I’m sure the result of the discussions would benefit everyone in the long run. . - .

And the same holds true for those who’d try to ban active duty soldiers from smoking. Sad. . - .

Michael J. McFadden,

Author of “Dissecting Antismokers’ Brains”

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

ID_Neon — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:21:30 GMT

Can liberals just stop telling people how to live? Only the living Jesus has that authority and he loves you regardless of your sins.

re: Cease Fire: A Vet Reflects On the Proposed Military Smoking Ban

belladonna203 — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 01:45:57 GMT

OK, I am going to say one thing right now, and one thing only: What the hell is our government thinking of with this???!!! I am serious, this will defiantly sound weird coming from a person like me (teenage girl, democratic, liberal, vegetarian, does not smoke, atheist) but even I will say that THIS is a little too far. Telling our soldiers who put their lives on the line every damn day, who know that they can be attacked any second of the day everyday, that they can't smoke because its bad for their health?????? (Um, yeah, and I'm sure that the constant fear and worry that they can DIE any second now does just wonders for their health too.) This is AMERICA people, the country where we have the freedom to do this stuff! And just how is it that our government can tell our soldiers that they can smoke but that everyone else can? That just isn't fair and it doesn't even make sense. Coming from a person who's uncle has flown Blackhawks in Iraq for the last 6 years, I think that I have the right to say that these are our soldiers, our protectors. I think that smoking is a bad and unhealthy habit just as much as anyone else, but they should be getting a freaking DISCOUNT for christ sake.