I realize I speak only for myself and this is what I see as accurate and being objective. There is so much being said that is based on aggressive appeals to biases, prejudices and selfish interests, all aimed to manipulate and even to purposely mislead the public. Take the criticisms of the Obama Administration as 'tax and spend', 'big government', 'Socialistic' and even (the very bazaar) as 'Communistic'. Any rational viewing has to recognize that Obama literally inherited very extreme and drastic problems that desperately needed considerable and quick action and any honest evaluation would conclude that continuing as was, doing nothing or doing too little would result in things getting worse and that just couldn't be tolerated. It is also very obvious that over the previous eight years everything was steadily going down hill as government demonstrated an unconscionable irresponsibility in offering the majority only total apathy, the costs and substantial subterfuge while they totally focused on benefit for Special Interests and a select few who provided overt and covert support, substantial contributions and promises for after office compensation. It should also be honestly admitted that ever since the switch the Republicans have stubbornly worked to block/obstruct every effort and have offered nothing positive and/or constructive. It is in this light, plus the knowledge that Obama has had only ten months and the Republicans are pushing to return to the disastrous 'more of the same', that the criticisms need to be evaluated. I am a moderate conservative and was a Republican (now Independent) who never voted Democratic between JFK and Al Gore and I always seek to be rational in considering my choices. I have never wanted 'big government' but as I see it today significant and rapid changes are absolutely necessary to bring balance back and then the changes really need time to take full affect. In so many areas drastic action is now desperately needed and to stall corrective efforts with fault finding, especially when with questionable purpose, is ridiculous. Whenever a child is running an excessively high temperature one acts quickly to bring it down, without waiting and worrying about taking it too low. Yes, solutions need to be fine tuned and exit strategies need to be developed but that requires responsible representatives honestly working together and without any selfishly motivated critics. Even when considering the hyped-up scare over raising taxes the reality is that, and no one knows it will be, if we incur a modest increase while experiencing a return to a robust economy, the net take-home could be improved; just ask the person without a job what they think. We need the Republicans to once again become honestly concerned and diligently working for the benefit of the majority and the only way that will ever happen is if we reject what they have become!

For what it's worth, I think the root cause of discourse on these posts, between "left" and "right" are based on what each side generally appears to want to get out of communicating here. 

 

On the right, they seem to be looking mostly for sharing what outrages they have with the left, and getting confirmation.  If there was no opposition, I think they would not mind at all (except for donald - who I think, like me, likes confrontation...good for you!).  If someone disagrees with them, they are not egaging in debate (as the poster might think) but rather "complaining" or "whining".  Everyone should just watch Fox news, adore Murdoch's media, and shut up (except when complaining about Obama and the Democrats).  That would explain the personal attacks they flow whenever opposition strikes and people who don't accept Fox news' viewpoiints appear.

 

On the left (which is the center as well, to the GOP), these are people (mostly) who come on to engage the right by asking how they have come to their position.  They use historical precedence, logical argument techniques, and understand word definitions as commonly accepted ("liberal", "conservative", "socialist", "communist" and "fascist").  They do not watch Fox (except on occassion) and draw their opinions from a much wider variety of sources which do not include anythingg Murdoch.  They are here to either convince the right of logical flaws, understand any reasoning behind their positions, or correct obvious inaccuracies (of course there are those "noisemakers here as well who post to aggravate...but they are in the minority).  The "left" is here to confront.  The right (except donald, for the most part) are here to affirm their beliefs.

 

If you don't think so, browse through posts on any board and notice how much the right will stroke each other for agreement, while the left usually only post to confront.  This doesn't mean the left never post in agreement...I even do on a rare occassion (on this board, in fact)....but it is much more rare than common.  Notice the right will go on for pages (Pia and Sanderella, for instance) affirming each other, making friends, ...basically a conservative social network.

 

None worse than the other - but each side expects something different from interaction.  Wimps?  Cannot make that determination on a message board.  The closest you can get would be if you found someone who was never confrontational and tried to befriend everyone accepting whatever ideology, just to be accepted...that is wimp.

You're welcome Sanderella. When things get heated here, don't run, just walk away.... You'll know when. Do that and you won't lose your glass slipper. But you knew that already.

 

Thanks for your well wishes.

Sanderella:

Donald,

 

Unfortunately, these very real facts (just like Obama and Frank stating their desire for a single payer insurance system)  are completely ignored by the left.  I suppose it's understandable though - people who wear blinders can't see all that much.

--------------------------------------------

Maybe so, Sanderella, but that makes it all the more enjoyable to give them a dose of reality. The most amazing thing about it is that so many politicians seem to be unaware of YouTube. They think that they can make statements and then deny them and get away with it. Not any more. It's right there on the web for all the world to see.

Well said Rob. 

Speaking of liberal wimps.  Maybe this reality will clear the picture.  I have seen, more than once, a group of liberales string up a conservative land-owner/factory owner, etc and gut him with machetes, forcing him to eat body parts as he dies.  I have seen much more.  So for the little girl who wants for macho liberales, I will gladly introduce her to some I know quite well.  As usual. the stupidos talk out of their anus.

And speaking of the stupidos who take whatever position to satisfy their need for affection.  This reminds me that as a young man in Cuba we listened to American music all the time.  One of my favorites had lyrics something like this:  See the girl with the red shoes on, she can do the dog all night long... hey, hey...  

You bet she can.

Liberal wimps... now I am truly laughing.  What these people do not know will smother them in the night.

Single payer insurance doesn't frighten me.  I've seen it work elsewhere.  Why would someone think it such a frightening thing as to appear to be a "hidden agenda".  Certainly doesn't fit the definition of communism nor socialism (anymore so than any other public service).

What a horrible thing to have seen.  Yes - here is clearly the failure to define the horrors of humanity.  It has nothing to do with ideology and everything to do with man's basic instinct, when let loose within an environment that enables it.  Read and listen to the stories of the Bosnians, when Milesovic incited Bosnian Serbs to commit the most horrid acts against the Bosniacs and Croates that the mind could conjure.  I remember reading the stories in the news in the early 1990s.  But the book, Love Thy Neighbor, written by a journalist who had lived to watch it all and hear the personal stories, brings the realities of that instinct to your doorstep.  I remember being in Banja Luka in 2001: a place whose Muslim Bosniacs were brutally decimated and driven from their homes.  You couldn't even refer to "Bosnians" (term understood to mean Bosniaks, at the time) in public without creating a scene.  The Serbs who stole their homes still live in them and are allowed to under the peace agreements.  This is neither left nor right - it is the human untamed brutal instinct to kill.  It lies beneath every society - waiting. 

 

Indeed, "Ama pos vecino!"

Those who wish for macho justice, macho power, macho sex, they may receive it in agony.  These little girls here who want this know nothing.  They think people like paulejb and his dwarves are real men.  These are not to be found pontificating, pulling wings off flies on a blog.  These so-called men are papier-mache machos.  Pinatas. Many of these I have seen struck with the stick and opening up with candy and cheap toys. They are silly donkeys full of fantasy and all about the show.  For us, in America, where truth and justice are on the line, they are infected zits on the derriere of democracy.

What we need in Ameica is justice flowing down like waters and peace like an everlasting stream.  We need wisdom.  We need the deeper intelligence of ones without malice or fear in their hearts.  We need strong people who can stand up to the stench of the stupidos and banish them to places where they can do no harm.  I do believe this is inevitable.  Gloria a Dios!

Bienadventurados los que padecen persecucion por causa de la justica, porque les importa mas la justicia que su destino humano!

Asi es, Simon.  Y bueno suerte a ellos que seran tan valiente.

"Like the rest of the stupids, you are mixing definitions."

 

Lump yourself in with the stupids.  I didn't mix anything, I was very straight forward.

 

"You are upset when you are trapped into providing objective evidence for your positions."

 

I always, always have evidence.  You on the other hand post a link verifying the 75 percent unfit to serve statement.  You failed to note that one site said 35 percent, and the site that mentioned the 75 percent rate also mentioned that includes people who even have one tattoo.  There's always a story behind numbers like that, but that's no surprise as I've seen this type of thing from you before.

 

"When you get cornered you start with name calling, then you get called out for it."

 

You are you repeating what I've already said.  It's a liberal trait.  I cited one poster that conically offends and name calls, but can't take it when it comes back to him.

 

"That is not aggressive, that is cowardice, wimpy and sissy-type."

 

No, it isn't.  Crying about getting called on for hypocrisy is.

 

"Aggressive is how you act as a person, not on the computer."

 

Another liberal trait... thinking you write the rules for everyone on any given subject.

 

"Think hard about what is upsetting you - It is because you are unable to logically support any of your positions, not anything to do with whomever you are engaging."

 

Think hard about what is upsetting me?  Wrong Sigmund F. If you want to analize someone, put yourself on the couch first.

 

"I imagine anyone who has been to college is quite upsetting to you.  Good.  suffer.  you seem to deserve to."

 

It really makes you guys angry when confronted with your 'do as I say, not as I do' liberal hypocrisy, doesn't it?  Anyone who confronts you is upsetting to you.  You hate it.  Good.  Squirm.  "You deserve it."

" When things get heated here, don't run, just walk away...."

 

Thank you Pia for the sound advice.  I appreciate it.

 

"Thanks for your well wishes."

 

You're welcome!

Hey girlie, reply to me.  You like macho, eh?  Let me show you liberale macho, aggressive macho.  Haha

You don't want macho really, you want a pinata and you have yours here.

A real man or woman is someone with nothing to prove and nothing to lose.  That leaves you and your macho stupido men here out in the cold rain.  

Be very careful of what you want...

as a wise man once said (actually quite recently):

 

Those who wish for macho justice, macho power, macho sex, they may receive it in agony.  These little girls here who want this know nothing.  They think people like paulejb and his dwarves are real men.  These are not to be found pontificating, pulling wings off flies on a blog.  These so-called men are papier-mache machos.  Pinatas. Many of these I have seen struck with the stick and opening up with candy and cheap toys. They are silly donkeys full of fantasy and all about the show.  For us, in America, where truth and justice are on the line, they are infected zits on the derriere of democracy.

What we need in America is justice flowing down like waters and peace like an everlasting stream.  We need wisdom.  We need the deeper intelligence of ones without malice or fear in their hearts.  We need strong people who can stand up to the stench of the stupidos and banish them to places where they can do no harm.  I do believe this is inevitable.  Gloria a Dios!

Bienadventurados los que padecen persecucion por causa de la justica, porque les importa mas la justicia que su destino humano!

 

When you grow up, and can live without all the fantasy, maybe you will be a woman.  Or not.

adios, honeybuns

 

 

Repubnomas,

Paulejb must really have put the hex on you. He has not posted here for weeks, but you persist in commenting on him. You seem obsessed. Did he get so far inside your head that you can't get him out? Do you feel helpless at the thought that he might return? Are you suffering from nightmares caused by your fears of paulejb?

You can not be strong if you do not conquer your fears, Repubnomas. You cannot continue cowering in trepidation that paulejb may return to take you to task. You must man up and stop taking council of your fears. I am sure that paulejb is a big enough person to take pity on you and let you down easy. 

Fortes fortuna adiuvat,

donaldrex 

Repubnomas,

Paulejb will not be pleased with your disrespect for women. You had better not be around when he returns. I understand that he has a particular disdain for misogynists. Just ask 40YearR. 

Mr./Ms. "Sanderella":

 

I have already discussed Ahmadinejad. I'm not trying to defend him - and I certainly don't support his actions - but he is, by all accounts, sane. Call it corrupt, call it calculated atrocity - but it isn't madness. 

 

An ad hominem IS a direct attack, you irrational "wimp." (That, sir/madam, is an ad hominem.) I find it ironic that you mention libraries - judging by your past posts, I would question whether you've ever actually been to one. NONE of my arguments (among those which you have posed as examples) fall into the category of logical fallacy or "direct attack." I have made honest concessions, and I have done my utmost to point out inconsistencies in the arguments of others. I try to adhere to my "own advice." Besides, I don't need to defend my ethos from someone who can't keep his/her typing fingers under civil control.

 

 I referred to Mr./Ms. "donaldrex" as a "liar" because he/she (like you) has repeatedly presented illogical opinions with no evidence (although I must admit that he/she, at the minimum, manages to refrain from being completely rude and boorish). Most anti-Obama "reasoning" I have seen is premature, extremely biased, and quite willfully flawed. Additionally, scriptural verses ARE entirely irrelevant in the realms of politics and pragmatism. We don't all share the same religious views, and it is profoundly asinine to assume so.

 

You HAVE neglected arguments from me. Every single meaningful one, in fact. You are doing so right now. You completely disregard my (f)actual responses and viewpoints, instead calling names and futilely trying to wreck your opposition's credibility. A very Fox-y approach, indeed. Don't you have better things to do than prove your utter ignorance? I suggest you quietly return to your "manly" lifestyle; at least then you can preserve some dignity.