Agree with that. Abolish religion, no arguee about sure why not? as long as it doesn't get nasty? Atheists and irreligionists need to respect that while we do have separation of Church and State predominantly, we do not have separartion of Church and Society and in a (predominantly) democratic government religious voters do vote and influenec the way of life. Instead of all these challenges to government through court cases, they need to respectfully come up with good evidence to argue their beliefs, not so much as Defense of their beliefs, but a way to for lack of a better word, evangelize them out of Faith. Now this will most certainly copme as an offesne to some, it will come down to faith and reason versus pure reason, predominantly. It will cahllenge parents to raise their children as better apologists and give the ability to know more about why we have faith and to be abale to express it to those without any. IN some wa, we may be able to learn more about each other that way. Some may change belief systems, but at least we all know what and how the other sees things truly and hopefully have enough respect for it. Seems like a cycle doesn't it. As I said earlier, I just have a problem with ignorance, not evil, or unbelievers or anything like that.

He got the whole world in His hands, He got the whole wide world in His hands, He got the whole world in His hands.....

pane2nou You say that my arguments have been taken, sometimes verbatim, from other sources. I sense you already feel obliged to cut me down to size so I'll resist the temptation to say great minds think alike. Instead I'll say simply that other minds have obviously arrived at similar conclusions to my own.

Here are a few more thoughts for you to have a go at. Interesting to see if you can find any of it verbatim on the web or in print.

It has been argued that life has been made difficult for humanity to aid in our spiritual development. But what kind of creator would infest the animal world with the host of parasites that make life such a misery for so many creatures on land, sea and air?

What kind of creator would create a balance in the natural world which results in life being so short and brutal for the majority of creatures?

Many believers have come to accept a) the process of evolution b) that the age of the Earth and the age of the universe can be measured in billions of years.

It has been calculated that 95% of all life forms that have ever lived have become extinct. By impact from space, volcanic activity, periodic ice ages, etc etc. What does that indicate? That life and death, evolution and extinction, are random and unguided, or nurtured and directed? But if the role of God has been reduced to that of the cosmic sower of seeds, the detonator of the big bang, then surely his significance to humanity is reduced to irrelevance?

If God exists, why does he hide from us? Why should God demand only that his followers have faith? Why should he exclude those of his creations who have questioning minds? If God existed why would he not reveal himself?

Have a nice day.

BugsyParis

Interested in what you say about Darwin. He certainly described himself as being an Agnostic. His thoughts on the existence of God, based on his observations of nature, and his intellectual courage, still resonates today. You may be interested in the following site:
http://www.update.uu.se/~fbendz/library/cd_relig.htm

Regards

Achnacom, I know your post was not meant for me, but I'll interject and state the following to answer your question. I hope it is still reasonable to answer your questions with another set of questions; as many films have said, you are simply asking the wrong questions. The answer to your questions will be answered when you find the answer to the following: Waht is Life? What is Death and is it truly Death? What is my purpose on Earth? If their is a God, what is His purpose and what does He/She want with me? The answer for me is obvious, but you have yet to find it. I'd recommend some films like Interview With a Vampire or The Last Dragon as good secular sources to these answers, that's right even the Eastern Religions have figured this all out and the naswers have always been around you, you simply cannot read the signs of the times. Open Your Eyes!

I believe you have a great deal of intelligent things to say. I encourage you to contribute to the comment section on a blog that will soon be available to comment on in the near future over at justthinkaboutthat.com. You will find that the subjects will be worthy of your input

Hi BugsyParis,
I appreciate your input. Unfortunately, as somebody once said, if I was created I was created not to believe.
Thanks anyway.

I've come to the conclusion that knowledge as Thomas Aquinas described and which includes faith knowledge, is in the eye of the beholder. With that said and before I go for the day, that reality is not ideal in otherwods, not a good thing. I don't mean we can't arrive at different conclusions, but we are thiking as children think. Children don't see the world the way adults do. They cannot foresee how diferent or society is than China or how taxes affect homeconomics. They do eventually, but we do not see as God sees. No coincidence, God is our father and he trying to raise us. We don't usually listen, but He's attentive and then peiople ask, why doesn't he intervene. He does, you just don't see it and well as for appearing he has, but we just don't believe it. Instead of our best fiend He has become some distant oddity. A father is both assertive and loving, but amazingly we still do not grasp it. I'm not saying pray, I'm just asking to make an attempt to talk to him, like a person and see things from his side. I don't see fathers putting their children in jail when they don't do what they ask, so what's up?! Hasta Manana and read some Thomas Aquinas and his arguments on Essence.

Thank you for your kind words. I will certainly check that out.

Hi BugsyParis,
I appreciate your input. Unfortunately, as somebody once said, if I was created I was created not to believe.
Thanks anyway

Bugsy:

I don't pretend to know the nature of God...but I have my beliefs about Him. I just feel very strongly that all creation is the evidence of a Creator....Intelligent Design. I call that Creator, God.

I am not trying to say that my belief is the only "right" one, just saying that to me, Someone is behind all things that exist. I know and respect the believers of Christianity, such as yourself as well as aethiests. I just don't subscribe to either belief system. Everyone is entitled to believe whatever they wish.......it just annoys me when any one person tries to "push" their beliefs on others. No person on this entire thread can say with absolute certainty what the real deal is, so all we can do is express our opinions.....which is what I have done.

"Most of us feel the existence of God is just too big an issue for puny human beings like ourselves to try to decide."....this was something the writer of the article said, not me. However, I do find that to be a very accurate statement, hence all the debate on this thread.

I have decided for me....not you or anyone else........that the existence of a God makes sense because all things had to start somewhere. It is a logical conclusion to a great mystery. Is it right??? I don't know....but until i do know it makes sense to me. Having a belief about something is just that....a belief.....it is not a statement of fact. You are entitled to your beliefs as well, and I can respect them as long as you don't try to impose them on me. I have not tried to impose mine on anyone.....I enjoy the controversy and conversation.

Boy, you must like me......you respond to everything I write! Let me rephrase so you may understand what I meant......IF there is a God, He is the same for all religions, atheists, agnostics....whatever. Now does that make a little more sense? IF......should have included that.

To go a bit further...I don't mind if someone is atheist, Jewish, Muslim, etc. But it really pisses me off when someone gets on their soapbox and complains about some business decorating in the Christian tradition at Christmas time.....even though that decoration has gotten to be so commercialized that one would not associate it with Jesus unless it was a manger scene with Mary and Joseph. Let all decorate or celebrate unto their own traditions.

This country was founded on Christian values, it says "In God We Trust" on our money. Now just because I don't go to church, etc., I don't complain about that. But others do that are so caught up in being politically correct.....which is a major pain in the ass to begin with.....might as well grow pointed ears and become a Vulcan. No more freedom of expression.

Now, is there anything here you would like to nit pick? Or are you satisfied now? Have a nice day.